Denver Broncos Thread

Chucky the tree · 23-10-2011 11:06PM

Syferus wrote: »

If this is how a terrible looking player plays, I hope some more teams pick up other 'terrible' players because as a fan of the sport, and, y'know, being entertained, I want to see more of this.

You found the first 3.5 quarters entertaining? :pac:

spiralism · 23-10-2011 11:11PM

Chucky the tree wrote: »

You found the first 3.5 quarters entertaining? :pac:

i found the comeback win entertaining

Chucky the tree · 23-10-2011 11:15PM

spiralism wrote: »

i found the comeback win entertaining

Fingers crossed you guys will get to play winless teams every week to have a chance so.

spiralism · 23-10-2011 11:18PM

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Fingers crossed you guys will get to play winless teams every week to have a chance so.

give us carson palmer and kyle boller then so and we'll be ok :pac:

Chucky the tree · 23-10-2011 11:46PM

spiralism wrote: »

give us carson palmer and kyle boller then so and we'll be ok :pac:

You'll get your wish in 2 weeks time, don't worry!

eagle eye · 23-10-2011 11:51PM

Whats amazing though is that the lad did not look at all good for most of today's game but he just has that something special and still pulled out the win.

tallaghtoutlaws · 24-10-2011 12:24AM

eagle eye wrote: »

Whats amazing though is that the lad did not look at all good for most of today's game but he just has that something special and still pulled out the win.

Yeah the something special was two WR/TE making amazing catches to get one score and the other setting up a score. Oh that and he had god and the right intangibles to win :rolleyes:

Its sad that folk are blinded by the nonsense that is Tebow. The fact of the matter is he was ****e today against a ****e team and one would expect any average NFL QB to beat that Dolphins team.

How stupid the Tebow thing is one commentator actually said it was a great starting Debut performance by Tebow. Eh Debut? he played 3 games last year as a starter.

Cam Newton is a beast of an Athelete who can pass a football.

Tim Tebow is a guy living on hype god and some sort of will to win type intangible people keep jabbering on about. :rolleyes:

Morrisseeee · 24-10-2011 07:27AM

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

Its sad that folk are blinded by the nonsense that is Tebow.

Yeah, you're right, obviously, but..............he sure is entertaining, and exciting, and he may never be a Tom Perfect Brady etc but who cares. I was never 'blinded' myself by the shining-sun that is Teebowmania, but I did see his potential as an offensive weapon. I admire his fighting spirit, he never says "OK that's it, let's quit". I think he can improve (he was fairly crap in the 1st half, nerves maybe), especially if a better team is built around him.

D3PO · 24-10-2011 08:22AM

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

Yeah the something special was two WR/TE making amazing catches to get one score and the other setting up a score. Oh that and he had god and the right intangibles to win :rolleyes:

Its sad that folk are blinded by the nonsense that is Tebow. The fact of the matter is he was ****e today against a ****e team and one would expect any average NFL QB to beat that Dolphins team.

How stupid the Tebow thing is one commentator actually said it was a great starting Debut performance by Tebow. Eh Debut? he played 3 games last year as a starter.

Cam Newton is a beast of an Athelete who can pass a football.

Tim Tebow is a guy living on hype god and some sort of will to win type intangible people keep jabbering on about. :rolleyes:

This.

Nobody who watched that game can argue with TO or myself or any of the others in this thread that have said Tebow right now is not an NFL starting QB.

Yes they won but my god what he a pile of pish for 95% of the game. Was great to watch the last few mins and the guy has the biggest will to win you could imagine but he doesnt have the QB skills to go with it.

Ita a pity because if he had the skills to go with the intangibles he could be one of the greatest players to ever play the game.

The fact is though he isnt half the quarter back that Kyle Orton is and thats saying something.

Just because of the win people will have a penchant of forgetting how bad he was for 3.5 quarters, how he failed to step up in the pocket, how he missed open rtecievers, how he got bailed out by some wonder catches, how Miami decided to go for a 2 point conversion and failed to keep Denver in the game, how he got away somehow with a fumble straight to 2 miami players, how he only got out with a win becasue of an onside kick recovery.

Hey look Im happy I backed Denver -1 and I had Tebow in my fantasy team but the fact remains he aint an NFL QB.

Peyton Manning · 24-10-2011 11:41AM

D3PO wrote: »

Just because of the win people will have a penchant of forgetting how bad he was for 3.5 quarters...... how he got bailed out by some wonder catches

O rly?

"Tim Tebow 5/15 for 55 yards. Really?"
"he's sucked today"
"He's been ****ing ****e"
"Tebow is raw as ****"
"Tebow has been ****e all day"
"Tebow is still having a terrible game passing despite his efforts on the ground. Overshooting so much"
"To be fair about it Tebow has looked awful today. There are no excuses for his performance, you can't blame the playcalling because when he has had the opportunity to throw he hasn't looked at all dependable. "
"his passes have been well set up but they're flying over the receiver's heads too much."

"first I see of Tebow is his TE making an amazing catch right down at the goal line"
"Oh my God, that is one of the best catches I've seen this year"
"Wow nice catch."

All the above are quotes from the Week 7 thread. Like you did when Cam was getting praise after Week 1, you seem to be fabricating other people's viewpoints. What's that about?

As for Tebow, people need to keep in mind that he's a young QB in his sophomore year out of a college with a poor system for producing NFL ready QBs. He had no contact with his team or coaches during the lockout, couldnt not practise the playbook, and has been 3rd string QB at training so is getting nowhere near as many snaps as Orton and Quinn. He was announced as the starter before the bye week where thanks to the lockout and new rules in place, he wasn't allowed practise and train with the team. Bearing in mind all of the above and the fact that this was first start in months without a receiver he looked in great sync with last year who was traded for peanuts. Damn right he was going to look rusty, but you know what? In the 4th quarter he was 9/13 for 121 yards, 2 touchdowns and a coverted 2 PAT. That's promising no matter what the situation.

Again, I would keep in mind that nobody has bloody said he's Aaron Rodgers or Tom Brady.

D3PO · 24-10-2011 12:06PM

Cam Newton wrote: »

O rly?

"Tim Tebow 5/15 for 55 yards. Really?"
"he's sucked today"
"He's been ****ing ****e"
"Tebow is raw as ****"
"Tebow has been ****e all day"
"Tebow is still having a terrible game passing despite his efforts on the ground. Overshooting so much"
"To be fair about it Tebow has looked awful today. There are no excuses for his performance, you can't blame the playcalling because when he has had the opportunity to throw he hasn't looked at all dependable. "
"his passes have been well set up but they're flying over the receiver's heads too much."

"first I see of Tebow is his TE making an amazing catch right down at the goal line"
"Oh my God, that is one of the best catches I've seen this year"
"Wow nice catch."

All the above are quotes from the Week 7 thread. Like you did when Cam was getting praise after Week 1, you seem to be fabricating other people's viewpoints. What's that about?

As for Tebow, people need to keep in mind that he's a young QB in his sophomore year out of a college with a poor system for producing NFL ready QBs. He had no contact with his team or coaches during the lockout, couldnt not practise the playbook, and has been 3rd string QB at training so is getting nowhere near as many snaps as Orton and Quinn. He was announced as the starter before the bye week where thanks to the lockout and new rules in place, he wasn't allowed practise and train with the team. Bearing in mind all of the above and the fact that this was first start in months without a receiver he looked in great sync with last year who was traded for peanuts. Damn right he was going to look rusty, but you know what? In the 4th quarter he was 9/13 for 121 yards, 2 touchdowns and a coverted 2 PAT. That's promising no matter what the situation.

Again, I would keep in mind that nobody has bloody said he's Aaron Rodgers or Tom Brady.

What the hell is your problem ? I didnt say EVERYBODY I said people I didnt even refer to people in this thread FFS :rolleyes::rolleyes:

D3PO · 24-10-2011 12:23PM

Cam Newton wrote: »

As for Tebow, people need to keep in mind that he's a young QB in his sophomore year out of a college with a poor system for producing NFL ready QBs. He had no contact with his team or coaches during the lockout, couldnt not practise the playbook, and has been 3rd string QB at training so is getting nowhere near as many snaps as Orton and Quinn. He was announced as the starter before the bye week where thanks to the lockout and new rules in place, he wasn't allowed practise and train with the team. Bearing in mind all of the above and the fact that this was first start in months without a receiver he looked in great sync with last year who was traded for peanuts. Damn right he was going to look rusty, but you know what? In the 4th quarter he was 9/13 for 121 yards, 2 touchdowns and a coverted 2 PAT. That's promising no matter what the situation.

Again, I would keep in mind that nobody has bloody said he's Aaron Rodgers or Tom Brady.

Why do people have to bear that in mind ? Playing in a college system not designed to develop a protypical NFL QB isnt an excuse for not playing well.

I love the guys will to win, I love his attitude, but lets call a spade a spade only for two excellent grabs he goes 7/13 with no TD's in the 4th quarter.

And thats without even mentioning he was playing one of the poorer teams in the league.

He was jumpy in the pocket, he missed some easy throws in the first few quarters, He should have been picked on his very first throw of the game for a pick 6 and probably should have been picked twice in total he also should have had a fumble.

Lets be fair he got very lucky to win that game and in my opinion Denver would have done much better had they had Orton play last night.

vetinari · 24-10-2011 02:13PM

Eh, this really baffles me.

I guess I'm not a supporter of Tebow even though I really don't care whether he wins or loses. The argument all of us who wanted him to start were making was that he should be judged on his results.

yes, he played ****e for most of the game. BUT he managed to lead his team to a come from behind win. For your first start as a starting QB this season, that's more than acceptable.

Stev_o · 24-10-2011 02:20PM

vetinari wrote: »

Eh, this really baffles me.

I guess I'm not a supporter of Tebow even though I really don't care whether he wins or loses. The argument all of us who wanted him to start were making was that he should be judged on his results.

yes, he played ****e for most of the game. BUT he managed to lead his team to a come from behind win. For your first start as a starting QB this season, that's more than acceptable.

Problem is the manner of the win. Yes it's a great achievement and his supporters would have spent last night saying special prayers to Tebow Christ but let's not forget that he was expected to win this game. Miami are ****ing dreadful, i mean really ****ing dreadful. The fact that he won the game in the last 2 minutes has to worry people because honestly against other teams he wont get this chance to amend for not producing any drivers in 3 quarters of football.

D3PO · 24-10-2011 02:27PM

vetinari wrote: »

Eh, this really baffles me.

I guess I'm not a supporter of Tebow even though I really don't care whether he wins or loses. The argument all of us who wanted him to start were making was that he should be judged on his results.

yes, he played ****e for most of the game. BUT he managed to lead his team to a come from behind win. For your first start as a starting QB this season, that's more than acceptable.

This is the hypocracy that I hate though (and I dont mean specifically you) if Orton had played and the game ended the same way there would be a clamour of Bronco fans saying how bad he was and how he got lucky to win and how it isnt good enough.

But becasue its Tebow he seems to be treated differently.

vetinari · 24-10-2011 02:55PM

i'd disagree with that. Orton got benched because the team kept losing (not saying that was all on him, it wasn't)
Tebow is being treated differently. His detractors are far more vocal than they would be for other players. Hell people were almost ready to consider Grossman a good quarterback there for a few weeks. It's best to save the vitriol for when he actually costs them a game.

The one very good thing about Tebow yesterday that hasn't been touched on is the lack of interceptions. When you're playing ****e, the temptation to force it must be overwhelming. He may have been playing woeful but he didn't hand the game to Miami. That's a very encouraging sign.

D3PO · 24-10-2011 03:05PM

vetinari wrote: »

The one very good thing about Tebow yesterday that hasn't been touched on is the lack of interceptions. When you're playing ****e, the temptation to force it must be overwhelming. He may have been playing woeful but he didn't hand the game to Miami. That's a very encouraging sign.

I agree with you re the Orton benching, my point is that I do believe that if Orton had played yesterday and they had scraped past Miami the Tebow fan club would have been out in force lobbying for him because Orton was terrible despite the win.

And whilst you are correct he didnt turn the ball over it must be said that was more down to Miami being poor than Tebow not giving up chances.

He should have been picked twice and somehow for the life of me I still cant figure out how Miami couldnt recover his fumble even though the ball rolled straight to two of their players without a Bronco in sight !!

Le King · 24-10-2011 04:03PM

The problem was never really Orton. If he had decent guys around him he would of been much better.

It's not really Orton verus Tebow. Broncos fans got tired of Orton. You can see the team isn't going to the playoffs so why not give Tebow a try. By the time he gets good practice in he might make a decent QB. The guy will definitely work.

The buck stopped with Orton. Next time it will be Tebow or Fox.

But I'm not going to criticise a guy who was 3rd string QB at the start of the season after one and a half games and a lockout. Some people here are so touchy about Tebow. He's in for the moment. Get over it.

spiralism · 24-10-2011 05:27PM

Le King wrote: »

The problem was never really Orton. If he had decent guys around him he would of been much better.

It's not really Orton verus Tebow. Broncos fans got tired of Orton. You can see the team isn't going to the playoffs so why not give Tebow a try. By the time he gets good practice in he might make a decent QB. The guy will definitely work.

The buck stopped with Orton. Next time it will be Tebow or Fox.

But I'm not going to criticise a guy who was 3rd string QB at the start of the season after one and a half games and a lockout. Some people here are so touchy about Tebow. He's in for the moment. Get over it.

Exactly. We weren't throwing him under the bus, in fact he's pretty liked in denver still, but the fact of the matter was that the team looked dead with him in as QB by the end and he was 4-14 as starter since the beginning of last season, something had to give. If you want to make a big change to a team you either change the starting QB or the coach. We weren't going to exactly fire John Fox after half a year, Orton came into the firing line. He's been nothing but professional about it and i wish him the best when he gets a clean slate with the next team that goes looking for him. He's better than he looked the last 20 odd games because the team around him went to ****e so he did as well, it's not easy to get back out of that without moving somewhere else.

As for Tebow, as was pointed out, the offseason really hurt him. Firstly we had a near entire front office overhaul last year so Tebow had to prove himself all over again. Secondly, the lockout kept him out of the sport for months on end and broke his momentum as he wasnt able to attend minicamps and build up a groove as starter. Thirdly, once the lockout ended, training camp began immediately and we were nearly in August. The team simply HAD to have a starting QB named asap and Fox, true to his reputation, took the conservative safe option in Orton rather than going with a project which they felt it was a bit late in the day to go on with. Tebow didn't get a snap as no.1 QB in practice from day one pretty much, it became clear we were going with Orton once the Miami trade fell through.

Because of that, Tebow had taken maybe 4 days of offensive snaps as starter since the end of last season, thanks to some stupid CBA rule that the bye week must be primarily given as a break to players instead of getting much needed work done. Not to mention that traded our best receiver the same week. Nearly every team that has come out of a bye so far has looked sloppy as ****, they have to lose that rule.

He'll work it out, he's learning on the job and has the heart of a champion, i have faith in him. If he can develop a consistently good level as a passer in years to come and has a good team around him he will dominate the **** out of the nfl, thats for sure. He has two fourth quarter 13+point comebacks in 4 games, even Elway himself only managed that twice in his whole career and he was the king of comebacks himself.

On sportscenter yesterday, Schefter said he received two texts from members of the Broncos front office after the game. One read: "this kid has something special", the second simply read: "unreal"

tallaghtoutlaws · 25-10-2011 12:59AM

spiralism wrote: »

Exactly. We weren't throwing him under the bus, in fact he's pretty liked in denver still, but the fact of the matter was that the team looked dead with him in as QB by the end and he was 4-14 as starter since the beginning of last season, something had to give. If you want to make a big change to a team you either change the starting QB or the coach.

Abosolute boll0cks. You and every other Broncos fan threw Orton under the bus but like everything you will adjust your opinion accordingly when called out on it. Whether Orton won or lost you would have called for his head. Before the season started Orton's head was on the chopping block by Broncos fans. Denver losing made it easy for you to blame Orton.

We weren't going to exactly fire John Fox after half a year, Orton came into the firing line. He's been nothing but professional about it and i wish him the best when he gets a clean slate with the next team that goes looking for him. He's better than he looked the last 20 odd games because the team around him went to ****e so he did as well, it's not easy to get back out of that without moving somewhere else.

As for firing Fox in a year and a half firstly, Fox hasn't been in Denver a year and a half, In fact he joined the Broncos in January of this year. Secondly McDaniels lasted how long? Not even two season.

As for Tebow, as was pointed out, the offseason really hurt him. Firstly we had a near entire front office overhaul last year so Tebow had to prove himself all over again. Secondly, the lockout kept him out of the sport for months on end and broke his momentum as he wasnt able to attend minicamps and build up a groove as starter. Thirdly, once the lockout ended, training camp began immediately and we were nearly in August. The team simply HAD to have a starting QB named asap and Fox, true to his reputation, took the conservative safe option in Orton rather than going with a project which they felt it was a bit late in the day to go on with. Tebow didn't get a snap as no.1 QB in practice from day one pretty much, it became clear we were going with Orton once the Miami trade fell through.

All i read here is excuses to justify why Tebow should have started. Will Broncos fans ever make their minds up? No they wont. They will hide behind their ever changing opinion just like Eagles fans did when McNabb became the problem in Philly to them. Bring in Vick blame McNabb. Bring in Tebow blame Orton type nonsense.

Because of that, Tebow had taken maybe 4 days of offensive snaps as starter since the end of last season, thanks to some stupid CBA rule that the bye week must be primarily given as a break to players instead of getting much needed work done. Not to mention that traded our best receiver the same week. Nearly every team that has come out of a bye so far has looked sloppy as ****, they have to lose that rule.

Got to love this. Just like every commentator this weekend, this weekends game all of a sudden was his debut as if he never played before or barely worked with the starting offense. He had 3 games with that starting offense last season lets not forget that. Blaming the lockout is pathetic at best. More excuses by a broncos fan.

He'll work it out, he's learning on the job and has the heart of a champion, i have faith in him. If he can develop a consistently good level as a passer in years to come and has a good team around him he will dominate the **** out of the nfl, thats for sure. He has two fourth quarter 13+point comebacks in 4 games, even Elway himself only managed that twice in his whole career and he was the king of comebacks himself.

haha the heart of a champion stuff again. You honestly think if Tebow cant do sh1t this year or doesn't change Denvers faith Fox and Elway will continue to work with him when they clearly don't want him? Just because he is starting now I highly doubt Fox/Elway have changed their opinions of him. More like lets start him as our season is done get through it and continue re-building.

If the front office choose Tebow over Fox/Elway if they decide not to roll with Tebow Denver will fail for many years to come.

On sportscenter yesterday, Schefter said he received two texts from members of the Broncos front office after the game. One read: "this kid has something special", the second simply read: "unreal"

Schefter is a fooking tool and the texts he got from the Front Office could have been from 2 PAs and Schefter will make it sound like it was someone important. Thats what he does for a living ffs. Schefter has been wrong many times but people get blinded by the fact he has "friends" in the front office's of teams or players around the league. Last time I checked though the front office dont pick the teams. If Tebow fails I guarantee you Schefter will come out with texts he apparently got saying "We told you so".

The sad part about all this is that people truly believe heart makes him a great QB or a winner. When he plays tougher teams and fails will people still say the same thing? If the NFL was about QBs entertaining us well heck Tebow wins Gold Medal. But alas it aint. Its about winnining games and putting your team in the best position to win the Super Bowl. Something Tebow will never do in my opinion. He will definitely entertain but he is not the answer to any problem.

Peyton Manning · 25-10-2011 07:49AM

tallaghtoutlaws wrote:

Schefter is a fooking tool

Whoa whoa whoa, let's not say something we can't take back! Schefter is awesome

vetinari · 25-10-2011 01:48PM

tallaghtoutlaws, I presume that Flacco is not the QB to win a superbowl for the Ravens after yesterday's performance

In a way, very strong similarities between that game and the Denver game. Both were teams on the road expected to beat poor quality opposition. Both stunk out the place offensively for 3 and a half quarters.

The difference though was Flacco took a sack that turned a 45 yard field goal attempt into a 52 yard miss and threw an interception on the last drive. I like Flacco as a QB but it goes to show that Tebow isn't alone by himself below every other starting quarterback.

Stev_o · 25-10-2011 02:29PM

Hold on it's been said among many people that Flacco doesn't have what it takes to go the extra mile in the NFL. He panics when it matters most. I don't see what that has to do with Tebow.

tallaghtoutlaws · 25-10-2011 02:36PM

vetinari wrote: »

tallaghtoutlaws, I presume that Flacco is not the QB to win a superbowl for the Ravens after yesterday's performance

Fail to see the relevance to this thread to be honest. This isn't the Flacco/someone else thread.

Stev_o wrote: »

Hold on it's been said among many people that Flacco doesn't have what it takes to go the extra mile in the NFL. He panics when it matters most. I don't see what that has to do with Tebow.

And if it was I would agree with this. Flacco is a much better QB than Tebow. Besides last night was another night of Fans blaming a QB even though there was no protection and Wide Receivers were simple covered all night. Jags did their homework on a team struggling to find a more than one solid WR. Smith has potential but he doesn't open up their passing game when Boldin is covered.

spiralism · 25-10-2011 09:20PM

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

Abosolute boll0cks. You and every other Broncos fan threw Orton under the bus but like everything you will adjust your opinion accordingly when called out on it. Whether Orton won or lost you would have called for his head. Before the season started Orton's head was on the chopping block by Broncos fans. Denver losing made it easy for you to blame Orton.

Here's the thing. He didn't win. Nobody complained or blamed him in 09 when we were winning games, so thats your point proved wrong already. His career in denver reached a turning point in the oakland 59-14 fiasco, he never came back around as a passer since

As for firing Fox in a year and a half firstly, Fox hasn't been in Denver a year and a half, In fact he joined the Broncos in January of this year. Secondly McDaniels lasted how long? Not even two season.

I said half a year, read my post again. McDaniels deservedly lost his job, almost everything wrong with this team now can be traced back to him. Spygate 2 tarnished the team's reputation, it was seen as the last straw and he got the chop.

All i read here is excuses to justify why Tebow should have started. Will Broncos fans ever make their minds up? No they wont. They will hide behind their ever changing opinion just like Eagles fans did when McNabb became the problem in Philly to them. Bring in Vick blame McNabb. Bring in Tebow blame Orton type nonsense.

How's McNabb working out right now? McNabb was finished when they called for his head. Maybe they were right, its not ridiculous that a fanbase may actually know something, our fans last year said that McDaniels should never have traded Peyton Hillis and look at him now on the cover of Madden 12

Got to love this. Just like every commentator this weekend, this weekends game all of a sudden was his debut as if he never played before or barely worked with the starting offense. He had 3 games with that starting offense last season lets not forget that. Blaming the lockout is pathetic at best. More excuses by a broncos fan.

Why is it pathetic? he had 3 games with that team...which was 4-12, had the leagues worst defence, eric studesville as coach and also had brandon lloyd, different circumstances entirely. He has worked very little with the starting offence up to this point, 3 weeks last year, 1 weeks practice this year thanks to the fact that the bye week is now a holiday

haha the heart of a champion stuff again. You honestly think if Tebow cant do sh1t this year or doesn't change Denvers faith Fox and Elway will continue to work with him when they clearly don't want him? Just because he is starting now I highly doubt Fox/Elway have changed their opinions of him. More like lets start him as our season is done get through it and continue re-building.

Ahh i dunno, the only person coming out of college right now that i would definitely think Elway would have over Tebow is Andrew Luck... given that we're likely in and around the 6-10, 7-9 bracket and the colts(possibly miami and the rams) are staring 0-16 down the barrel, we're not bad enough to get near him so its likely a moot point....Obviously heart, drive, determination and all those other intangibles make a huge difference, if sport were all about stats and cold hard facts it wouldnt be very interesting. Tebow dug himself a hole sunday...but he also dug himself out of it in record breaking fashion. He could play that badly and still win, it says a lot. John Elway knows this, he struggled like a bastard i his first year and made many bad mistakes... against Baltimore his first season he played abysmally, he even lined up to take a snap under guard and we were 19-0 down by the start of the fourth quarter... yet he turned it around and we won 21-19, the comparison between that and the miami game wont go over King John's head. Elway was 3-13 his first season and struggled immensely, no doubt back then you would have been saying that he would never make it in the nfl and his intangibles didn't mean ****.

If the front office choose Tebow over Fox/Elway if they decide not to roll with Tebow Denver will fail for many years to come.

Fox and Elway ARE the front office, along with GM Brian Xanders. The buck
now stops with Elway as far as the team is concerned, he's basically acting chairman with Pat Bowlen in poor health

Schefter is a fooking tool and the texts he got from the Front Office could have been from 2 PAs and Schefter will make it sound like it was someone important. Thats what he does for a living ffs. Schefter has been wrong many times but people get blinded by the fact he has "friends" in the front office's of teams or players around the league. Last time I checked though the front office dont pick the teams. If Tebow fails I guarantee you Schefter will come out with texts he apparently got saying "We told you so".

You're about the first person i ever heard criticise Schefter, he's as good as it gets as a source, best ITK in the sport, if not any sport.

The sad part about all this is that people truly believe heart makes him a great QB or a winner. When he plays tougher teams and fails will people still say the same thing? If the NFL was about QBs entertaining us well heck Tebow wins Gold Medal. But alas it aint. Its about winnining games and putting your team in the best position to win the Super Bowl. Something Tebow will never do in my opinion. He will definitely entertain but he is not the answer to any problem.

Its about winning games... He's 2-2 as starter right now... what if he plays better teams and can pull off a win? granted, we werent exactly playing the 1985 bears on sunday last but if himself and the team can play that badly and still win, whos to say he cant overcome a larger obstacle if himself and the team play better? What's the excuse if we actually manage to win on sunday against Detroit?

What does tebow have to do to convince you? It amazes me how divisive this is, i just want him to win because he's my teams QB and i think he gives us our best shot. Yet so many are dying to watch him crash and burn... maybe i could understand if they were Raiders/Chargers/Chiefs fans because of rivalry but they're often not, some people seriously have a problem with the fella and all he's trying to do is win games, and is doing ok on early evidence

tallaghtoutlaws · 25-10-2011 09:38PM

spiralism wrote: »

Yawn to the stuff in bold same old excuses re-hashed over and over again.

Its about winning games... He's 2-2 as starter right now... what if he plays better teams and can pull off a win? granted, we werent exactly playing the 1985 bears on sunday last but if himself and the team can play that badly and still win, whos to say he cant overcome a larger obstacle if himself and the team play better? What's the excuse if we actually manage to win on sunday against Detroit?

Might not have been the 1985 Bears but it was a Dolphins team even the Broncos shouldn't have struggled against. But the issue here is Tebow and he was woeful. As for the Detroit game how can I give you excuses without seeing how they perform? Especially Tebow After all this is about Tebow :rolleyes:

What does tebow have to do to convince you?

He in my mind is not a NFL QB. He was woeful at best on Sunday and the heart and determination will only get him so far. Until he fixes his mechanics he will never prove himself to many.

It amazes me how divisive this is, i just want him to win because he's my teams QB and i think he gives us our best shot. Yet so many are dying to watch him crash and burn... maybe i could understand if they were Raiders/Chargers/Chiefs fans because of rivalry but they're often not, some people seriously have a problem with the fella and all he's trying to do is win games, and is doing ok on early evidence

Dying to watch him crash and burn? No you see that is not it. What pisses non Tebow lovers off is the fact the chap has clear passing issues, clear mechanics issues and he isnt a NFL ready QB. Well thats it for me anyways. I never want to see anyone crash and burn but when blame is being put on other players to suit the agenda of a guy who isn't ready it annoys many out there.

As for having problems with the fella? Don't know Tim Tebow personally so don't have any issues with him as a person. He is a bad NFL QB to me who needs a lot of proper work which he will never get.

spiralism · 25-10-2011 10:14PM

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

Yawn to the stuff in bold same old excuses re-hashed over and over again.

Might not have been the 1985 Bears but it was a Dolphins team even the Broncos shouldn't have struggled against. But the issue here is Tebow and he was woeful. As for the Detroit game how can I give you excuses without seeing how they perform? Especially Tebow After all this is about Tebow :rolleyes:

He in my mind is not a NFL QB. He was woeful at best on Sunday and the heart and determination will only get him so far. Until he fixes his mechanics he will never prove himself to many.

Dying to watch him crash and burn? No you see that is not it. What pisses non Tebow lovers off is the fact the chap has clear passing issues, clear mechanics issues and he isnt a NFL ready QB. Well thats it for me anyways. I never want to see anyone crash and burn but when blame is being put on other players to suit the agenda of a guy who isn't ready it annoys many out there.

As for having problems with the fella? Don't know Tim Tebow personally so don't have any issues with him as a person. He is a bad NFL QB to me who needs a lot of proper work which he will never get.

you see, here's the problem. we go to miami as underdogs and we'd never won there in the team's history but we win and its all "but they're ****e". I'd be willing to guarantee that if we lose sunday its "Tebows career is finished, hes never going to make it" and if we win its "but they were on a losing streak, best and stafford were playing hurt/out" etc.

this is just going to go on and on.. by extension, if we win a few games and end up doing alright this season from now on it'll be attributed to beginners luck or early successes and if we dont it'll be attributed to him not being up to the task... but that's nothing new. Even at Florida when he dominated the entire college football scene pretty much there were plenty of doubters, and before that at Nease HS people said he wasn't able to become a college QB......so what happened to giving him a bit of time, he looks alright so far, he has 2 wins and that's all that matters

tallaghtoutlaws · 25-10-2011 10:34PM

spiralism wrote: »

Even at Florida when he dominated the entire college football scene pretty much there were plenty of doubters, and before that at Nease HS people said he wasn't able to become a college QB......so what happened to giving him a bit of time, he looks alright so far, he has 2 wins and that's all that matters

He was a great QB in high school and college no denying it and was fun to watch. But the NFL is not High School or college. Not the same pressures to deliver. NFL players should already have the base to develop quickly in the NFL. Those who can't make the transition fail. Tebow right now is a guy who has some of the necessary ingredients but is hanging on in the middle of succeeding and failing. Had Denver not taken him in the first round I guarantee you the same pressure we see now would not be there and me and you would not be going back and forth because everyone would accept he is a backup rookie QB learning in the background and his time will come. But now he has to either step up quickly and succeed or go home. The NFL waits for no man.

spiralism · 25-10-2011 10:40PM

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

He was a great QB in high school and college no denying it and was fun to watch. But the NFL is not High School or college. Not the same pressures to deliver. NFL players should already have the base to develop quickly in the NFL. Those who can't make the transition fail. Tebow right now is a guy who has some of the necessary ingredients but is hanging on in the middle of succeeding and failing. Had Denver not taken him in the first round I guarantee you the same pressure we see now would not be there and me and you would not be going back and forth because everyone would accept he is a backup rookie QB learning in the background and his time will come. But now he has to either step up quickly and succeed or go home. The NFL waits for no man.

so if he steps up quickly this year and win games, is he on the right track then in your eyes by that reckoning? not being smartarse, honest question

this is the thing with tebow... he's everything his critics say, but everything his fans say simultaneously. as trent dilfer, one of his harshest critics put it, i'd rather a player that struggled like he did for the majority of the match only to get it together and win than a tony romo type who plays well for most the match and blows it at the end

Syferus · 25-10-2011 10:45PM

spiralism wrote: »

so if he steps up quickly this year and win games, is he on the right track then in your eyes by that reckoning? not being smartarse, honest question

this is the thing with tebow... he's everything his critics say, but everything his fans say simultaneously. as trent dilfer, one of his harshest critics put it, i'd rather a player that struggled like he did for the majority of the match only to get it together and win than a tony romo type who plays well for most the match and blows it at the end

It's become a self-fueling cycle at this point too with detractors feeling the need to up the ante when they see someone saying he's going to make it, and vise versa. Like you said, it'll take alot of things going in either direction for Tebow to quieten the debate now.

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