Denver Broncos Thread

tallaghtoutlaws

spiralism wrote: »

so if he steps up quickly this year and win games, is he on the right track then in your eyes by that reckoning? not being smartarse, honest question

This and fixing his accuracy and mechaincs. That long wind up he has his passes have a tendency to hit to far away from his WR.

this is the thing with tebow... he's everything his critics say, but everything his fans say simultaneously. as trent dilfer, one of his harshest critics put it, i'd rather a player that struggled like he did for the majority of the match only to get it together and win than a tony romo type who plays well for most the match and blows it at the end

Tebow fixes his problems and he is golden. Many believe including me he probably wont get that chance to fix his problems and will fall into that category of just getting by to suit someone elses needs.

Chucky the tree

spiralism wrote: »

as trent dilfer, one of his harshest critics put it, i'd rather a player that struggled like he did for the majority of the match only to get it together and win than a tony romo type who plays well for most the match and blows it at the end

Problem is you don't only get two choices in the NFL. Everyone would rather a QB who can read defense, throw accuratly and make good decisions in the pocket. Tebow can't do any of these. He's rushing ability and will to win will definitly win him games, problem is it will be against teams like the 0-5 Dolphins or the 5-8 Texans. If Tebow can make progress in anyone of those areas I'll be impressed. But for 3.5 quarters Tebow looked like he didn't belong on an NFL roster, let alone as a starting QB. He's got a huge mountain to climb and I'm not sure any QB has gone from being that terrible to being an elite QB in the nfl.

eagle eye

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Problem is you don't only get two choices in the NFL. Everyone would rather a QB who can read defense, throw accuratly and make good decisions in the pocket. Tebow can't do any of these. He's rushing ability and will to win will definitly win him games, problem is it will be against teams like the 0-5 Dolphins or the 5-8 Texans. If Tebow can make progress in anyone of those areas I'll be impressed. But for 3.5 quarters Tebow looked like he didn't belong on an NFL roster, let alone as a starting QB. He's got a huge mountain to climb and I'm not sure any QB has gone from being that terrible to being an elite QB in the nfl.

Just out of interest though can you name to me a couple who have played terribly and then gone and won games?

I've said all along that his leadership, work ethic and will to win are his biggest strengths. I expect him to play much better than he did against Miami the next day(it wouldn't be hard in all fairness) because I really do believe he is the type of guy who will find a way to get it done and get better the more he plays.

He was absolutely awful the last day, I said it in the gameweek thread but he still got it together at the end of the game. Most QBs would have dropped the head at that stage and almost given up and go super cautious so as not to look any worse than they already had to that stage but he got more aggressive.

D3PO

eagle eye wrote: »

Just out of interest though can you name to me a couple who have played terribly and then gone and won games?

.

Loads of QB's have played terribly and won games. I dont see the point of the question ?

Didnt Derek Anderson "win" a game as Browns QB with 1 of 9 passing for 7 yards and a pick a few years ago

Peyton Manning

D3PO wrote: »

Loads of QB's have played terribly and won games. I dont see the point of the question ?

Didnt Derek Anderson "win" a game as Browns QB with 1 of 9 passing for 7 yards and a pick a few years ago

Don't think that's what he means. The Broncos won with a big input from Tebow who went from awful to impressive when the game was winding down, whereas the Browns won in spite of Anderson.

D3PO

Cam Newton wrote: »

Don't think that's what he means. The Broncos won with a big input from Tebow who went from awful to impressive when the game was winding down, whereas the Browns won in spite of Anderson.

Ok well the question wasnt clear then

Chucky the tree

eagle eye wrote: »

Just out of interest though can you name to me a couple who have played terribly and then gone and won games?

I've said all along that his leadership, work ethic and will to win are his biggest strengths. I expect him to play much better than he did against Miami the next day(it wouldn't be hard in all fairness) because I really do believe he is the type of guy who will find a way to get it done and get better the more he plays.

He was absolutely awful the last day, I said it in the gameweek thread but he still got it together at the end of the game. Most QBs would have dropped the head at that stage and almost given up and go super cautious so as not to look any worse than they already had to that stage but he got more aggressive.

Off the top of my head can't name any who played so terribly and won.

Peyton Manning

D3PO wrote: »

Ok well the question wasnt clear then

It's important to remember that anything that any team with Derek Anderson as a starting QB achieves is always in spite of him :pac:

Rented Mule

My cousin in LA sent this to me. Thought that I should share it with the class.

http://tebowing.com/

LuckyLloyd

eagle eye wrote: »

...I expect him to play much better than he did against Miami the next day(it wouldn't be hard in all fairness) because I really do believe he is the type of guy who will find a way to get it done and get better the more he plays.

He was absolutely awful the last day, I said it in the gameweek thread but he still got it together at the end of the game. Most QBs would have dropped the head at that stage and almost given up and go super cautious so as not to look any worse than they already had to that stage but he got more aggressive.

Most QBs don't have the opposition fumble an onside kickoff reception to put them back in either.

Today was miracle free:

T. Tebow 18/39 172 4.4 1 1 56.8

Take away a chunk of that on sacks too.

eagle eye

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Most QBs don't have the opposition fumble an onside kickoff reception to put them back in either.

Today was miracle free:

T. Tebow 18/39 172 4.4 1 1 56.8

Take away a chunk of that on sacks too.

Do you want me to start picking out games where he had a rating over 100?

spiralism

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Most QBs don't have the opposition fumble an onside kickoff reception to put them back in either.

Today was miracle free:

T. Tebow 18/39 172 4.4 1 1 56.8

Take away a chunk of that on sacks too.

he sucked, but we may as well give him the rest of the season regardless so we know where we are... as bad as he was, there were much more obvious problems with the team than himself today, bad as he was

LuckyLloyd

eagle eye wrote: »

Do you want me to start picking out games where he had a rating over 100?

No, I'm talking about the last two weeks since he was named starter where, apart from one quarter of football, he's been awful.

spiralism wrote:

he sucked, but we may as well give him the rest of the season regardless so we know where we are... as bad as he was, there were much more obvious problems with the team than himself today, bad as he was

I've no problem with that. I believe that by season's end the question will then be "who do we play at QB now?" but we'll see.

spiralism

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

No, I'm talking about the last two weeks since he was named starter where, apart from one quarter of football, he's been awful.



I've no problem with that. I believe that by season's end the question will then be "who do we play at QB now?" but we'll see.

well at least we'll know, id rather that than lose anyways and have him holding a clipboard all year, meaning that we'd be unsure about what to do at QB next year. The only worrying thing is that Tebow probably will win a few games anyways, take us up to 5-11/6-10 ish and well out of the reach of Luck/Barkley/Jones

Rented Mule

The number of people who are buying into the 'Cult of Tebow' is really playing with the odds. Detroit was only giving 1.5 points on Saturday. Smart betters jumped in hard pushing the line to 3. Final score Detroit 45 - Denver 10.

I'm not sure we'll be able to see this again next week, but it is something to watch.

tallaghtoutlaws

spiralism wrote: »

its orton and brady quinn, not tom brady and aaron rodgers...

we got nearly 2 full seasons of similar dross from orton (4-14 since last season) and brady quinn sucked for as long as he was at cleveland

like it or not, its still tebows gig for the rest of the season, and since we've likely won ourselves out of the andrew luck sweepstakes, it could well remain that way for the time being

incidentally, America's Game was on after the humiliation and it was the 1998 Broncos... feels like centuries ago when you see Elway, Davis and Sharpe there and then see us now

Ah here would you stop feeling sorry for yourself already as a Broncos fan ffs. Every reply is about how bad the Broncos are, I think everyone gets that at this point. I followed the Pats when they were ****e. There is always light at the end of the tunnel.

As for Orton and Quinn. Tebow is playing worse than Orton right now, Don't forget that same sh1te team is in front of Tebow and he is playing worse than Orton. Love the way its the Teams fault when Tebow plays horrendously but its Ortons fault when he was playing bad. Broncos fans are hilarious.

For me completion rating plays a big part in judging the 2.

Orton Completions/QB Rating: 2010: 58.8/87.5 2011: 58.7/75.7
Tebow 2010: 50.0/82.1 2011: 48.6/75.1

They both have fumbled the same amount of times in the last 2 years even though Tebow has played less games. Now granted Tebow and others managed to save his blushes by jumping on it first Orton not as lucky.

And as for Ints watching a show there a while back and Tebow saves on Ints because he leaves the pocket rather throw away the ball.

At the end of it right now Orton is statistically the better QB whether you want to believe it or not. Same sh1te team in front of them.

As for Quinn hardly fair to judge him as a Bronco without him getting a shot. Didn't you Broncos fans get upset with non Tebow fans when they suggested not giving Tebow a shot? A tad hypocritical no?

vetinari

If one good game wasn't going to make him an NFL quarterback, it stands to reason that one bad game should be the end of his career either. As mentioned, they might as well give him the rest of the season to see if he improves. Orton is a free agent next year and Brady Quinn unfortunately for Brady Quinn is a bit of a known commodity.

Rented Mule

vetinari wrote: »

If one good game wasn't going to make him an NFL quarterback, it stands to reason that one bad game should be the end of his career either. As mentioned, they might as well give him the rest of the season to see if he improves. Orton is a free agent next year and Brady Quinn unfortunately for Brady Quinn is a bit of a known commodity.

Yet both have have proven themselves and have the skill set to be NFL QBs.

Pyjamarama

vetinari wrote: »

If one good game wasn't going to make him an NFL quarterback, it stands to reason that one bad game should be the end of his career either. As mentioned, they might as well give him the rest of the season to see if he improves. Orton is a free agent next year and Brady Quinn unfortunately for Brady Quinn is a bit of a known commodity.

He didn't have a good game tho. Just a good quarter...

Tebow was AWFUL this weekend. It showed every flaw he has. If he is to ever become an NFL qb he needs to be dropped. He needs to sit and develop the skills required to be an NFL starter. Being a "winner" won't cut it and if he keeps losing then Denver will give up on him and he'll lose the "winner" tag which is all he really has.

Johnny_Fontane

apparently he is getting one more start.....

Its like watching tiger woods though. you tune in to see what he will do no matter who else is playing. I kept on switching back to redzone this w/end after tebow gave the ball up but dialled back in to see what he would do!

mad, but he is an enigma.

death1234567

Johnny_Fontane wrote: »

mad, but he is an enigma.

I watched the Denver game and I thought he looked more like bambi on ice, his feet were all over the place. Can't see him making it in the NFL.

vetinari

Rented Mule wrote: »

Yet both have have proven themselves and have the skill set to be NFL QBs.

Ah now here, there's enough borderline lunacy comments in this thread already

How can you say Quinn has proven himself?? Orton has but he's quite likely to be leaving Denver so not much point playing him in a losing season.

tallaghtoutlaws

vetinari wrote: »

Ah now here, there's enough borderline lunacy comments in this thread already

How can you say Quinn has proven himself?? Orton has but he's quite likely to be leaving Denver so not much point playing him in a losing season.

You missed his point. Whether Quinn lasts in the NFL him and Orton have the necessary Skills and mechanics to be in the NFL. Its down to them 2 as QBs to prove themselves. Tebow lacks basic mechanics that is required by any NFL QB whether good or bad. Many on here refuse to believe that and feel his winning attitude is enough to get him through it. Sunday showed it isn't.

vetinari

I don't think I have. This really is a process of elimination at this stage.
Denver are not going to the playoffs, I think we can all agree on that.

Their best QB Orton is very likely leaving at the end of the season. Not much point putting him in there. A record of 5 - 11 is arguably worse than 3 - 13 since you would have worse draft picks.

That leaves Quinn and Tebow. Tebow hasn't played great thus far but he hasn't been given a complete chance as in a stretch of 7 or 8 games. Quinn has and has been a bust. Very hard to come back from that in the NFL. For Fox, the easiest option for this season is to leave in Tebow and then ditch him at the end of the season if it's not working out.

tallaghtoutlaws

vetinari wrote: »

That leaves Quinn and Tebow. Tebow hasn't played great thus far but he hasn't been given a complete chance as in a stretch of 7 or 8 games. Quinn has and has been a bust. Very hard to come back from that in the NFL. For Fox, the easiest option for this season is to leave in Tebow and then ditch him at the end of the season if it's not working out.

Quinn played in a totally different system with the Browns who themselves were a shambles. If Tebow performs badly this weekend Quinn will start the following weekend. Calling Quinn a bust after his time with the Browns is madness. When Quinn got his proper shot in Cleveland he broke his finger and never saw action for the remainder of that season. The following season they brought in Mangini who was useless to any QB with his indecisive nonsense and bad play calling. He did alright in a failing system under a really bad head coach and team.But Like Tebow, Quinn needs a coaching staff that like him and believe in him. Fox/Elway both like Quinn also so there is no doubt he will get his shot at some point this season.

I wouldn't even call Tebow a bust if he fails at Denver you would hope someone would pick him up develop him on the bench for a year or so and fix him. But being realistic it will probably never happen.

Jopari87

Was listening to nfluk podcast today and they were saying it takes 8 seconds on average between the time of the snap and tebow's release, which is ridiculous if true.

eagle eye

Jopari87 wrote: »

Was listening to nfluk podcast today and they were saying it takes 8 seconds on average between the time of the snap and tebow's release, which is ridiculous if true.

Whats the NFL average do you know?

Stev_o

eagle eye wrote: »

Whats the NFL average do you know?

3/4 seconds

eagle eye

Stev_o wrote: »

3/4 seconds

Is that fact or just a guess?

I don't want the average sack time either.

eagle eye

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

Ah here Eagle Eye stop looking for a justification to defend Tebow. Common sense tells you its in and around 3 -4 seconds. Anyone who know football will tell you that. But to give you some shred of proof here is an article based on 2009's QBs

http://www.aolnews.com/2009/09/23/which-quarterbacks-hold-the-ball-too-long/

As you can see the 3-4 seconds is the longest.

Edit: someone might want to quote me just in case he has me on ignore

Thats exactly what I was not looking for. I'm sure the stats are available somewhere for everybody.