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Post-natal depression is a myth.

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Comments

  • #92
    TheyKnowMyIP
    Closed Accounts Posts: 568 ✭✭✭TheyKnowMyIP


    Abi wrote: »
    Wrong on both counts.



    Science thinks something else of you, by a long shot.

    Sources? I don't really trust anything I read unless it's backed up scientifically. Academic journals, not OK or Hello magazine. Kthxbye.

    The lack of evidence works in my favour. This much I do know.


  • #93
    K-9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,313 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Jayus, this is like a Tea Party thread on politics.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • #94
    Abi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,058 ✭✭✭✭Abi


    TheyKnowMyIP wrote: »
    Sources?

    Experience?


  • #95
    TheyKnowMyIP
    Closed Accounts Posts: 568 ✭✭✭TheyKnowMyIP


    Abi wrote: »
    Experience?

    No sorry. I have no doubt it's a very stressfull thing to go through. I still don't think it's disease of serotonin deficiency as most are led to believe. Whatever the hell it is, they need to publish better research.


  • #96
    4leto
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,940 ✭✭✭4leto


    TheyKnowMyIP wrote: »
    Sources? I don't really trust anything I read unless it's backed up scientifically. Academic journals, not OK or Hello magazine. Kthxbye.

    The lack of evidence works in my favour. This much I do know.

    How about Polar Bears on Prozac you would have to say a placebo wont work on them.

    http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/09/0929_050929_pet_prozac_2.html


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  • #97
    billybudd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭billybudd


    Kaneda_ wrote: »
    Women are simply not allowed to admit to themselves or others that they are depressed about being mothers.Unlike decisions about career, where to live, who to marry, etc, this one cannot be undone. Some find it hard to cope with the changes it brings, feeling like the experience did not live up to expectations manufactured and promoted by society. This creates cognitive dissonance and eventually depression.

    All people experience major distress, sadness, and anxiety at various points in their lives. Post-natal depression is no different than any other major form of depression.We feel it when we lose our jobs, have loved ones die, and when life becomes overwhelming. But this particular depression is fueled by a decision that a woman is not permitted to regret and cannot take back.It is done.Final.

    There is only DEPRESSION. No need to create a special label that only exists because saying "I REGRET THIS DECISION!" is not acceptable in a society that promotes motherhood as some magical transcendent experience.Not the case for everyone and we need to acknowledge that. For some it is a cause of considerable pain, regret, and emotional turmoil.

    How do you explain a woman with three children who has a fourth child and then has pnd?


  • #98
    TheyKnowMyIP
    Closed Accounts Posts: 568 ✭✭✭TheyKnowMyIP


    kelle wrote: »
    Well said, Irishgirl. The bit in bold also refers to the author of the manual (and the poster) referred to in the quotes below, which I won't be rushing out to buy!





    "TheyKnowMyIP" - yes, I'd say it's the same as the OP's

    The quote you refer to is written by the guy who is the lead author of the DSM. The bible of Psychiatry. If he calls bull****, why won't anybody else. By the way, that book he is reffering to, it's the one used to "diagnose" PND.

    Read the article. Hopefully it will open your eyes to the reality of the overprescription and lack of scientific data.


  • #99
    Abi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,058 ✭✭✭✭Abi


    TheyKnowMyIP wrote: »
    No sorry. I have no doubt it's a very stressfull thing to go through.
    For a want of better words..
    I still don't think it's disease of serotonin deficiency as most are led to believe. Whatever the hell it is, they need to publish better research.

    Who told you it was a disease? =/ It's a depletion of SSRI, not a disease.


    When women become pregnant, the very first sign of pregancy is HCG (pregnancy hormone), and from that point on, the womans body builds in both hormones and body adjustments in order to maintain the pregnancy. These hormones heighten to sustain the pregnancy, and from the time of birth they begin to deplete rapidly, as there is no longer a body to 'host'.

    This massive drop in hormones, accompanied with the stress of the previous months carrying the child, lack of sleep etc, kick it off. Then try facing all of that with months of little or no sleep.


    I'd be confident in saying at this point, most mothers would probably tell you to find evidence from an orifice of yours I won't mention.


  • #100
    TheyKnowMyIP
    Closed Accounts Posts: 568 ✭✭✭TheyKnowMyIP


    billybudd wrote: »
    How do you explain a woman with three children who has a fourth child and then has pnd?

    You first start by defining exactly what constitutes PND at the biological level. If the foundation is shaky, how to you expect the upper layers to hold?


  • #101
    TheyKnowMyIP
    Closed Accounts Posts: 568 ✭✭✭TheyKnowMyIP


    Abi wrote: »
    For a want of better words..



    Who told you it was a disease? =/ It's a depletion of SSRI, not a disease.

    For all practical purposes and intent, it's surely marketed as a disease. Makes sense, I would be doing the same given people are not very open to questioning shaky scientific theories. It remains a theory, not scientific fact that a serotonin deficiency causes PND
    Abi wrote: »
    When women become pregnant, the very first sign of pregancy is HCG (pregnancy hormone), and from that point on, the womans body builds in both hormones and body adjustments in order to maintain the pregnancy. These hormones heighten to sustain the pregnancy, and from the time of birth they begin to deplete rapidly, as there is no longer a body to 'host'.

    This massive drop in hormones, accompanied with the stress of the previous months carrying the child, lack of sleep etc, kick it off. Then try facing all of that with months of little or no sleep.


    I'd be confident in saying at this point, most real EXPERIENCED mothers would probably tell you to find evidence from an orifice of yours I won't mention.

    This hormonal thing has nothing to do with a chemical imbalance of serotonin in the brain, assuming PND is a subset of Major Depression. This does not fit with the diagnostic criteria. The science remains very shaky as Wibbs has stated.

    As regards Mothers etc, thankfully I don't speak to too many of em:) I will listen to Scientists with a crazy amount of experience in the field, not hormonally driven women in labour.


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  • #102
    Birdie086
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,437 ✭✭✭Birdie086


    Whether is a disease or a state of mind, it is seriously crappy when you go through it...............trust me...............I actually measure every **** time in my life against those six months and hopefully wont have to suffer that again.

    It is valid and real.


  • #103
    Abi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,058 ✭✭✭✭Abi


    TheyKnowMyIP wrote: »
    For all practical purposes and intent, it's surely marketed as a disease.
    Who does?


  • #104
    Logical Fallacy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,933 ✭✭✭Logical Fallacy


    I came into the thread for a chuckle, the OP's in threads like this are always quite funny.

    Now i'm just sitting here with a cup of tea, enjoy the picturesque view that exists in the massive gulf of space between the original posters understanding of psychiatric illnesses and the actuality of them.


  • #105
    TheyKnowMyIP
    Closed Accounts Posts: 568 ✭✭✭TheyKnowMyIP


    Abi wrote: »
    Who does?

    The drug companies along with the medical establishment. If this wasn't the case, why would they prescribe em?


  • #106
    Abi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,058 ✭✭✭✭Abi


    TheyKnowMyIP wrote: »
    The drug companies along with the medical establishment.


    And other than that, it's a figment of the female's imagination - is that correct?


  • #107
    Logical Fallacy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,933 ✭✭✭Logical Fallacy


    TheyKnowMyIP wrote: »
    The drug companies along with the medical establishment. If this wasn't the case, why would they prescribe em?

    By the definition of a disease, depression is one. It's not really anything to argue about i reckon, it's just a word that most people misconstrue the meaning of.


  • #108
    billybudd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭billybudd


    TheyKnowMyIP wrote: »
    The drug companies along with the medical establishment. If this wasn't the case, why would they prescribe em?

    I have never heard it being called a disease, a illness yes, PND is surely just a branch of the tree that is Depression?

    I agree with you that pills and chemical treating is to rampant but i suppose it is better than spending years in an asylum.


  • #109
    billybudd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭billybudd


    Logical Fallacy wrote: »
    By the definition of a disease, depression is one. It's not really anything to argue about i reckon, it's just a word that most people misconstrue the meaning of.

    It is? where does disease have the classification of depression in it? i am not being smart just interested how you came to this conclusion?


  • #110
    Logical Fallacy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,933 ✭✭✭Logical Fallacy


    billybudd wrote: »
    It is? where does disease have the classification of depression in it? i am not being smart just interested how you came to this conclusion?

    Why does disease need to have the classification of depression in it?

    Below is what disease means. I just reckon a lot of people assume for something to be a disease it needs to be either transferable, operable or fatal.

    This is not the case.

    1.A pathological condition of a part, organ, or system of an organism resulting from various causes, such as infection, genetic defect, or environmental stress, and characterized by an identifiable group of signs or symptoms.2. A condition or tendency, as of society, regarded as abnormal and harmful.


  • #111
    Giselle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,540 ✭✭✭Giselle


    TheyKnowMyIP wrote: »

    If mental illness is to be understood well, we need to ditch or reform Psychiatry. Otherwise, the profit incentives are simply too great to get unbiased information. Never trust information just because it comes from a doctor. They want you to buy SSRI's not because they care about you, but because it makes money.

    This isn't rocket science folks!!!

    Thats an unbelievably sweeping statement.

    I think you're selling psychiatrists incredibly short and that the VERY vast majority of them act only with their patients best interest at heart, to the best of their ability.

    The myth of the money driven psychiatrist is rooted in popular culture, very much at odds with the reality of dealing with a myriad of patients suffering from a myriad of illnesses in an underfunded and overlooked area of healthcare. Its probably one of the most caring and least appreciated of all the specialties.


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  • #112
    TheyKnowMyIP
    Closed Accounts Posts: 568 ✭✭✭TheyKnowMyIP


    Giselle wrote: »
    Thats an unbelievably sweeping statement.

    I think you're selling psychiatrists incredibly short and that the VERY vast majority of them act only with their patients best interest at heart, to the best of their ability.

    The myth of the money driven psychiatrist is rooted in popular culture, very much at odds with the reality of dealing with a myriad of patients suffering from a myriad of illnesses in an underfunded and overlooked area of healthcare. Its probably one of the most caring and least appreciated of all the specialties.

    You place far too much faith in people. Operating under the assumption that they are working in your best interest is naive to say the least. The financial ties have been proven. It's a money making game, mostly.

    FWIW, Paranoia is a good thing. Your computer would not normally connect to the Internet without a firewall. Does your computer suffer from paranoid personality disorder because you have a firewall installed? It's a rational response to a dangerous world. Be suspicious until proven otherwise.

    The statment is not sweeping. It has been proven that Psychiatry operates with vested interests in the Pharm companies. This is not opinion, it is a fact. If you trust people blindly, how about pm'ing your bank account details over to me. I swear I will pay you back ;)


  • #113
    billybudd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭billybudd


    Logical Fallacy wrote: »
    Why does disease need to have the classification of depression in it?

    Below is what disease means. I just reckon a lot of people assume for something to be a disease it needs to be either transferable, operable or fatal.

    This is not the case.

    1.A pathological condition of a part, organ, or system of an organism resulting from various causes, such as infection, genetic defect, or environmental stress, and characterized by an identifiable group of signs or symptoms.2. A condition or tendency, as of society, regarded as abnormal and harmful.


    Illlness and disease are basically the same meaning, i suppose your right in the sense that people are more concerned when they hear the word disease as opposed to illness.


  • #114
    billybudd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭billybudd


    TheyKnowMyIP wrote: »
    You place far too much faith in people. Operating under the assumption that they are working in your best interest is naive to say the least. The financial ties have been proven. It's a money making game, mostly.

    FWIW, Paranoia is a good thing. Your computer would not normally connect to the Internet without a firewall. Does your computer suffer from paranoid personality disorder because you have a firewall installed? I don't think so. It's a rational response to a dangerous world.

    Are you not part of the problem with your extreme views?


  • #115
    Giselle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,540 ✭✭✭Giselle


    TheyKnowMyIP wrote: »
    You place far too much faith in people. Operating under the assumption that they are working in your best interest is naive to say the least. The financial ties have been proven. It's a money making game, mostly.

    FWIW, Paranoia is a good thing. Your computer would not normally connect to the Internet without a firewall. Does your computer suffer from paranoid personality disorder because you have a firewall installed? I don't think so. It's a rational response to a dangerous world.

    The statment is not sweeping. It has been proven that Psychiatry operates with vested interests in the Pharm companies. This is not opinion, it is a fact.

    Assuming that the majority of a particular profession are proficient and invested in their jobs isn't placing too much faith in them, its reasonable trust in the face of any evidence to the contrary.

    While I'm confident that the pharmaceutical companies are profit driven, I'm also confident that the medical profession prescribe the meds they believe work in their patients best interest.

    And no, paranoia is not a good thing. Precautions are not paranoia. You probably need to examine the difference a little more.


  • #116
    TheyKnowMyIP
    Closed Accounts Posts: 568 ✭✭✭TheyKnowMyIP


    billybudd wrote: »
    Are you not part of the problem with your extreme views?

    No, I am part of the solution. Fianna Fail didn't operate under the premise of trust for example. It's common sense not to trust strangers, especially those with large bank accounts.


  • #117
    Logical Fallacy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,933 ✭✭✭Logical Fallacy


    TheyKnowMyIP wrote: »
    No, I am part of the solution. Fianna Fail didn't operate under the premise of trust for example. It's common sense not to trust strangers, especially those with large bank accounts.

    You are turning a bull**** thread into a rolling commentary alluding to sentient machines and deep seated issues in the political system.

    No idea why i am reading Iain M Banks when i just sub this thread.


  • #118
    TheyKnowMyIP
    Closed Accounts Posts: 568 ✭✭✭TheyKnowMyIP


    Giselle wrote: »
    Precautions are not paranoia. You probably need to examine the difference a little more.

    They can be depending on the level of inspection required. It's not just the obvious you need to check for. Boards.ie got hacked a while back. No amount of "precautions" could have prevented that. It's the edge cases you need to worry about.

    Any machine connected to the Internet operates under the basis I have described. Why can't this work with people?


  • #119
    billybudd
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭billybudd


    TheyKnowMyIP wrote: »
    No, I am part of the solution. Fianna Fail didn't operate under the premise of trust for example. It's common sense not to trust strangers, especially those with large bank accounts.

    You have a very unhealthy outlook.


  • #120
    TheyKnowMyIP
    Closed Accounts Posts: 568 ✭✭✭TheyKnowMyIP


    billybudd wrote: »
    You have a very unhealthy outlook.

    Fair enough. You are entitled to your opinion, just like I am. I will leave it at that, this is going a bit off topic:)

    Back in line!


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  • #121
    Overheal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,725 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    TheyKnowMyIP wrote: »
    They can be depending on the level of inspection required. It's not just the obvious you need to check for. Boards.ie got hacked a while back. No amount of "precautions" could have prevented that.
    Actually I believe the hack originated from a weak or leaked password from a high level account. Strengthening and Securing said password would have surely prevented the attack. So I disagree with you.

    Not sure what this has to do with PND though.


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