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Post-natal depression is a myth.

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Comments

  • #62
    kelle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,243 ✭✭✭kelle


    kowloon wrote: »
    I once had an episode of post-dental depresssion. True fact.

    Is this you?


  • #63
    Giselle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,540 ✭✭✭Giselle


    kowloon wrote: »
    I once had an episode of post-dental depresssion. True fact.

    I break the mould and have pre-dental depression.


  • #64
    cesc77
    Closed Accounts Posts: 874 ✭✭✭cesc77


    http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/killer-dentist-colin-howell-how-i-got-away-with-murder-for-two-decades-16062672.html

    Trusting dentists less and less,I am.

    Theyre all cnuts




    Except mine.Shes hot.But pregnant:(Not mine:(


  • #65
    kelle
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,243 ✭✭✭kelle


    cesc77 wrote: »
    http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/killer-dentist-colin-howell-how-i-got-away-with-murder-for-two-decades-16062672.html

    Trusting dentists less and less,I am.

    Theyre all cnuts




    Except mine.Shes hot.But pregnant:(Not mine:(


    :D

    Though I think the world of my dentist, she's great at her job and has taken away any fear I ever had of dentists, and my children love her. So they're not all like the OP.


  • #66
    Novella
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,713 ✭✭✭✭Novella


    Wow OP, I genuinely thought there was a sarcastic tone to your post but wait, you're serious? Fcukin' hell.


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  • #67
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    cesc77 wrote: »
    http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/killer-dentist-colin-howell-how-i-got-away-with-murder-for-two-decades-16062672.html

    Trusting dentists less and less,I am.

    Theyre all cnuts




    Except mine.Shes hot.But pregnant:(Not mine:(

    My dentist also is quite hot and has a has a fine pair of twins! Not pregnant yet but jut give it a few more chat up lines on my half and sure well see what happens!


  • #68
    IrishEyes19
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,861 ✭✭✭IrishEyes19


    Kaneda_ wrote: »
    Women are simply not allowed to admit to themselves or others that they are depressed about being mothers.Unlike decisions about career, where to live, who to marry, etc, this one cannot be undone. Some find it hard to cope with the changes it brings, feeling like the experience did not live up to expectations manufactured and promoted by society. This creates cognitive dissonance and eventually depression.

    All people experience major distress, sadness, and anxiety at various points in their lives. Post-natal depression is no different than any other major form of depression.We feel it when we lose our jobs, have loved ones die, and when life becomes overwhelming. But this particular depression is fueled by a decision that a woman is not permitted to regret and cannot take back.It is done.Final.

    There is only DEPRESSION. No need to create a special label that only exists because saying "I REGRET THIS DECISION!" is not acceptable in a society that promotes motherhood as some magical transcendent experience.Not the case for everyone and we need to acknowledge that. For some it is a cause of considerable pain, regret, and emotional turmoil.

    What an ignorant statement to make. Have you medical qualifications to back this or at least experience. Depression by the way cannot be defined as one sole entity either. There are many types. Of course it needs a special label. As it occurs usually directly after a woman gives birth. What else could one call it and if it happened to be and I was perfectly happy beforehand, Id like to know why I suddenly felt that way.

    I understand that discussion and debate are essential, but sometimes I wonder why people create threads like this. Is it to hurt someone or simply denial of some form.


  • #69
    Sardonicat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,444 ✭✭✭✭Sardonicat


    Wibbs wrote: »
    "Depression" from my reading of it over the years is a label like "cancer". It has many causes, many different presentations and many different severities and outcomes and just like I doubt we'll ever find a catchall cure for cancer, we'll not find a catchall cure for depression either. It's a group of illnesses.
    This. 100%
    We (sufferers and professionals) gradually seem to be realising this. Which is a good thing IMO.


  • #70
    keano_afc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,711 ✭✭✭keano_afc


    Kaneda_ wrote: »
    Women are simply not allowed to admit to themselves or others that they are depressed about being mothers.Unlike decisions about career, where to live, who to marry, etc, this one cannot be undone. Some find it hard to cope with the changes it brings, feeling like the experience did not live up to expectations manufactured and promoted by society. This creates cognitive dissonance and eventually depression.

    All people experience major distress, sadness, and anxiety at various points in their lives. Post-natal depression is no different than any other major form of depression.We feel it when we lose our jobs, have loved ones die, and when life becomes overwhelming. But this particular depression is fueled by a decision that a woman is not permitted to regret and cannot take back.It is done.Final.

    There is only DEPRESSION. No need to create a special label that only exists because saying "I REGRET THIS DECISION!" is not acceptable in a society that promotes motherhood as some magical transcendent experience.Not the case for everyone and we need to acknowledge that. For some it is a cause of considerable pain, regret, and emotional turmoil.

    My wife was diagnsed with PND 2 weeks ago. Can I just tell you that you are talking through your arse and it actually makes me angry to have to read such rubbish. My wife is not depressed about being a mother, as you suggest. Honestly, I'm seriously thinking about taking a ban on the chin for telling you exactly what I think of you. But at the end of the day, the pity I feel for you takes over.


  • #71
    cesc77
    Closed Accounts Posts: 874 ✭✭✭cesc77


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    My dentist also is quite hot and has a has a fine pair of twins! Not pregnant yet but jut give it a few more chat up lines on my half and sure well see what happens!


    You know shes gonna be all about the oral?

    You better be a tongue twisting sonofa:D


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  • #72
    cesc77
    Closed Accounts Posts: 874 ✭✭✭cesc77


    People are getting upset here as its a touchy subject.

    D o n t feed the troll.


  • #73
    Chuck Stone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,030 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    People definately suffer with the symptoms described as depression.

    As for it being a biological 'disease'? I would say prove it.


  • #74
    Abi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,058 ✭✭✭✭Abi


    It's a controversial thread, it's how the OP trolls.

    The two posts since this evening the original poster made, this;
    Kaneda_ wrote: »
    Women are simply not allowed to admit to themselves or others that they are depressed about being mothers.Unlike decisions about career, where to live, who to marry, etc, this one cannot be undone. Some find it hard to cope with the changes it brings, feeling like the experience did not live up to expectations manufactured and promoted by society. This creates cognitive dissonance and eventually depression.

    All people experience major distress, sadness, and anxiety at various points in their lives. Post-natal depression is no different than any other major form of depression.We feel it when we lose our jobs, have loved ones die, and when life becomes overwhelming. But this particular depression is fueled by a decision that a woman is not permitted to regret and cannot take back.It is done.Final.

    There is only DEPRESSION. No need to create a special label that only exists because saying "I REGRET THIS DECISION!" is not acceptable in a society that promotes motherhood as some magical transcendent experience.Not the case for everyone and we need to acknowledge that. For some it is a cause of considerable pain, regret, and emotional turmoil.

    And this;
    Kaneda_ wrote: »
    A dentist.




    Now I have to ask, with such a long winded, strongly opinionated post - why wouldn't they be actively involved in the thread?


  • #75
    TheyKnowMyIP
    Closed Accounts Posts: 568 ✭✭✭TheyKnowMyIP


    Giselle wrote: »
    I appreciate you replying, but I'm more interested as to if he believes any depression he may have had is related to his IQ. :)

    I think it's a factor, but I don't have enough data to say confidently. Regardless of the OP's original statement, the fact that the disorders can be invented without little substance backing up their existence, serves to further the idea that the medical establishment known as Psychiatry is seriously misrepresenting it's position as a profgressive scientific field of inquiry, when in fact, it's the complete opposite.

    If mental illness is to be understood well, we need to ditch or reform Psychiatry. Otherwise, the profit incentives are simply too great to get unbiased information. Never trust information just because it comes from a doctor. They want you to buy SSRI's not because they care about you, but because it makes money.

    This isn't rocket science folks!!!

    If they can "invent" erotomania as a disease, who is to say they absolutely cannot be wrong with PND? To anybody saying it's unquestionably real, is this not the result of social adaptation to the shock of child birth, or a complex chemical imbalance? I believe the former to be correct.

    The Diagnostic and Statistical Manaual is a money spinning vehicle. The fact it's lead author dismisses it outright serves to confirm my intial thoughts. Biological Psychiatry is junk science. This is not an opinion, it is scientific fact. There is a mountain of evidence out there to support this position. Emotions don't play a part in this discussion.

    I will quote the man who wrote the book on mental illness again for you -

    "Every so often Al Frances says something that seems to surprise even him. Just now, for instance, in the predawn darkness of his comfortable, rambling home in Carmel, California, he has broken off his exercise routine to declare that “there is no definition of a mental disorder. It’s bull****. I mean, you just can’t define it.” Then an odd, reflective look crosses his face, as if he’s taking in the strangeness of this scene: Allen Frances, lead editor of the fourth edition of the American Psychiatric Association’s Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (universally known as the DSM-IV), the guy who wrote the book on mental illness, confessing that “these concepts are virtually impossible to define precisely with bright lines at the boundaries.” For the first time in two days, the conversation comes to an awkward halt."

    source


  • #76
    TheyKnowMyIP
    Closed Accounts Posts: 568 ✭✭✭TheyKnowMyIP


    Abi wrote: »
    It's a controversial thread, it's how the OP trolls.

    The two posts since this evening the original poster made, this;



    And this;





    Now I have to ask, with such a long winded, strongly opinionated post - why wouldn't they be actively involved in the thread?

    Would you agree that SSRI's are required to treat PND? Is there any reputable scientific evidence to support the notion that PND is a chemical imbalance of neurotransmitters in the brain?


  • #77
    Abi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,058 ✭✭✭✭Abi


    TheyKnowMyIP wrote: »
    Would you agree that SSRI's are required to treat PND?
    Have you any idea what happens to a woman when she a) becomes pregnant. and b) what happens after birth?


    I'm going to pop on the kettle and have a little laugh to myself while I await the reply to this one. Google is your friend.


  • #78
    iguana
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,917 ✭✭✭✭iguana


    woodoo wrote: »
    Is their a hormonal change after giving birth.

    A massive one. There are also other factors like anaemia due to blood loss. I was extremely depressed for part of this year. It turned out I had anaemia and within a week of taking iron supplements my "depression" disappeared.


  • #79
    TheyKnowMyIP
    Closed Accounts Posts: 568 ✭✭✭TheyKnowMyIP


    Abi wrote: »
    Have you any idea what happens to a woman when she a) becomes pregnant. and b) what happens after birth?


    I'm going to pop on the kettle and have a little laugh to myself while I await the reply to this one. Google is your friend.

    I don't care what happens. I am simply stating that they don't have a clue about:

    (a) what constitutes PND at the biological level
    (b) how to reliably model this "disease"
    (c) how to treat it

    As I said, biological Psychiatry is junk science. Have you any reputable evidence to counter my assertion? SSRI's correct no imbalances. They just line the pockets of those with vested interests. It's all about the money.

    In the absence of credible research evidence, it is natural to state something may not be true. Why should the notion of PND as a disease be any different?


  • #80
    efb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 35,514 ✭✭✭✭efb


    It's not post natal depression, it's postpartum depression- the baby isn't depressed.

    Depression comes in many forms OP


  • #81
    Abi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,058 ✭✭✭✭Abi


    TheyKnowMyIP wrote: »
    I don't care what happens.

    Then we're done here.


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  • #82
    KeithAFC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,239 ✭✭✭✭KeithAFC


    TheyKnowMyIP wrote: »
    I don't care what happens. I am simply stating that they don't have a clue about:

    (a) what constitutes PND at the biological level
    (b) how to reliably model this "disease"
    (c) how to treat it

    As I said, biological Psychiatry is junk science. Have you any reputable evidence to counter my assertion? SSRI's correct no imbalances. They just line the pockets of those with vested interests. It's all about the money.

    In the absence of credible research evidence, it is natural to state something may not be true. Why should the notion of PND as a disease be any different?
    I agree with you. It is junk science and the evidence is lacking.


  • #83
    4leto
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,940 ✭✭✭4leto


    TheyKnowMyIP wrote: »
    I don't care what happens. I am simply stating that they don't have a clue about:

    (a) what constitutes PND at the biological level
    (b) how to reliably model this "disease"
    (c) how to treat it

    As I said, biological Psychiatry is junk science. Have you any reputable evidence to counter my assertion? SSRI's correct no imbalances. They just line the pockets of those with vested interests. It's all about the money.

    In the absence of credible research evidence, it is natural to state something may not be true. Why should the notion of PND as a disease be any different?

    What are you on about "a balance" what is this balance you are talking about, ssri boosts serotonin. For some that helps for others it does not. But there is no balance.


  • #84
    TheyKnowMyIP
    Closed Accounts Posts: 568 ✭✭✭TheyKnowMyIP


    Abi wrote: »
    Then we're done here.

    You seem to confuse legitimate scientific inquiry with emotions. If you want a serious discussion on the matter, you must seperate the two. Feelings don't come into the picture.


  • #85
    TheyKnowMyIP
    Closed Accounts Posts: 568 ✭✭✭TheyKnowMyIP


    4leto wrote: »
    What are you on about "a balance" what is this balance you are talking about, ssri boosts serotonin. For some that helps for others it does not. But there is no balance.

    Do you know how to read a dictionary? If so, look up the word "balance". Contrast this word with "imbalance" Their is your answer. The entire basis for prescribing SSRI's is little more than snake oil science. There is no credible evidence supporting the prescription of SSRI's to correct these "imbalances". Absolutely none. Zilch. It's a fairytale at best.


  • #86
    Abi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,058 ✭✭✭✭Abi


    TheyKnowMyIP wrote: »
    You seem to confuse legitimate scientific inquiry with emotions. If you want a serious discussion on the matter, you must seperate the two. Feelings don't come into the picture.


    When you give birth yourself, perhaps you can separate the two.


  • #87
    TheyKnowMyIP
    Closed Accounts Posts: 568 ✭✭✭TheyKnowMyIP


    Abi wrote: »
    When you give birth yourself, perhaps you can separate the two.

    You're missing the point. PND is not a disease, it's a state of mind. I have no doubt it causes severe problems with bonding. However, it is not a disease of the brain. Not by a long ****ing shot. Science will agree with my point of view.


  • #88
    4leto
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,940 ✭✭✭4leto


    TheyKnowMyIP wrote: »
    Do you know how to read a dictionary? If so, look up the word "balance". Contrast this word with "imbalance" Their is your answer. The entire basis for prescribing SSRI's is little more than snake oil science. There is no credible evidence supporting the prescription of SSRI's to correct these "imbalances". Absolutely none. Zilch. It's a fairytale at best.

    So the brain regulates itself on some balancing mechanism, that running through are all these chemicals kept in neutrals. Really, so what type of science are you talking about where is your "snake oil science" coming from.

    SSRI and pain medication do have very high placebo influences except when you are in real pain and suffering moderate to severe depression then they have been clinically proven to work over the placebo effect.

    I do agree they are over prescribed for mild depression, BUT even a placebo is better then nothing when the health system could not afford counselling for all, so I would say carry on over prescribing them.

    As for PNS, you can deny it exists, do that, call the woman "hysterical" tell her to go home and get on wit it. Then see what happens.


  • #89
    TheyKnowMyIP
    Closed Accounts Posts: 568 ✭✭✭TheyKnowMyIP


    4leto wrote: »
    So the brain regulates itself on some balancing mechanism, that running through are all these chemicals kept in neutrals. Really, so what type of science are you talking about where is your "snake oil science" coming from.

    SSRI and pain medication do have very high placebo influences except when you are in real pain and suffering moderate to severe depression then they have been clinically proven to work over the placebo effect.

    I do agree they are over prescribed for mild depression, BUT even a placebo is better then nothing when the health system could not afford counselling for all, so I would say carry on over prescribing them.

    As for PNS, you can deny it exists, do that, call the woman "hysterical" tell her to go home and get on wit it. Then see what happens.

    So the statistically insignificant benefits of SSRI's outweigh the dangerous side effects and costs involved? Not very strong an argument. Let me ask you, why are these drugs prescribed, and what exactly are they supposed to be "fixing" within the brain? Pumping chemicals into people without fully understanding the effects is quackery, not science.


  • #90
    4leto
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,940 ✭✭✭4leto


    TheyKnowMyIP wrote: »
    So the statistically insignificant benefits of SSRI's outweigh the dangerous side effects and costs involved? Not very strong an argument. Let me ask you, why are these drugs prescribed, and what exactly are they supposed to be "fixing" within the brain? Pumping chemicals into people without fully understanding the effects is quackery, not science.

    They are not sure the brain is an extremely complex organ some say way beyond human understanding, which is kind of ironic. But they can isolate certain hormones and see what happens when you add them or take some away. For instance we know what happens when you add opiates, dopamine and serotonin.
    I picked those because of Heroine, alcohol, and cocaine.

    Serotonin is a neurotransmitter, it is known to create feeling of joy and happiness, but not on its own, for that it needs hormones hence the strong placebo effect.

    But if I was to take all the serotonin out of your brain or greatly reduce it you would get suicidally depressed. As I said it is very effective on severely depressed people.

    I am not the placebo type, but they saved my life. (past it now)


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  • #91
    Abi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,058 ✭✭✭✭Abi


    TheyKnowMyIP wrote: »
    You're missing the point. PND is not a disease, it's a state of mind.
    Wrong on both counts.
    However, it is not a disease of the brain. Not by a long ****ing shot. Science will agree with my point of view.

    Science thinks something else of you, by a long shot.


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