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RWC Pool C: Ireland vs USA Eagles, Sun 11 Sep 7am; Pre/During/Post Match Thread.

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    #1412
    tolosenc
    Registered Users Posts: 6,889 ✭✭✭tolosenc


    KELTICKNIGHTT wrote: »
    yes ,its lovely,as long as sexton doesnt play unless he improves ;)

    Paddy Wallace to start next week, then? O'Gara wasn't any better than Sexton this morning.


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    #1413
    JRant
    Registered Users Posts: 12,852 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    KELTICKNIGHTT wrote: »
    i was for kidney and management staying after world cup but now i think we need a international coach outside ireland and that never coached here so can work with a clean sheet

    If he doesn't get the all-blacks job we should move heaven and earth to get Robbie Deans over here as our coach.

    Kidney has to much baggage at this stage and there seems to be that perceived Munster bias in his team selections. Whether there is or not I can't say, i'm not there when the team is picked, but there are players on the panel who are 2nd choice at provincial level and shouldn't be near the team.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



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    #1414
    tolosenc
    Registered Users Posts: 6,889 ✭✭✭tolosenc


    Amazotheamazing wrote: »
    Anytime really, do you think Sexton was unable to stop him?

    By the time Trinh-Duc has the ball, he's 5m from Sexton and sprinting the opposite direction. It isn't possible for Sexton to tackle him without getting sin binned. This isn't the NFL.

    To be honest, if you think Sexton was in anyway to blame for that try, you haven't even got a notion about rugby.


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    #1415
    Amazotheamazing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,048 ✭✭✭Amazotheamazing


    tolosenc wrote: »
    By the time Trinh-Duc has the ball, he's 5m from Sexton and sprinting the opposite direction. It isn't possible for Sexton to tackle him without getting sin binned. This isn't the NFL.

    To be honest, if you think Sexton was in anyway to blame for that try, you haven't even got a notion about rugby.

    No I think TOL is to blame for the try, as I said. I think Sexton should have fouled Trinh Duc though to stop the try being given. It ended the game for us. What's depressing is it looks like Sexton jumps out of Trinh Duc's way when he goes for the ball. He's an experienced pro, he should have risked the penalty/yellow card.


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    #1416
    KELTICKNIGHTT
    Registered Users Posts: 3,799 ✭✭✭KELTICKNIGHTT


    JRant wrote: »
    If he doesn't get the all-blacks job we should move heaven and earth to get Robbie Deans over here as our coach.

    Kidney has to much baggage at this stage and there seems to be that perceived Munster bias in his team selections. Whether there is or not I can't say, i'm not there when the team is picked, but there are players on the panel who are 2nd choice at provincial level and shouldn't be near the team.
    dont think theres a perceived Munster bias ,think he listens to wrong people instead of being a coach ,the leinster and munster setup isnt working
    didnt work before kidney either but was a little better

    a coach who never coached here before in ireland new back room staff,start from scratch with players


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    #1417
    JRant
    Registered Users Posts: 12,852 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    Amazotheamazing wrote: »
    No I think TOL is to blame for the try, as I said. I think Sexton should have fouled Trinh Duc though to stop the try being given. It ended the game for us. What's depressing is it looks like Sexton jumps out of Trinh Duc's way when he goes for the ball. He's an experienced pro, he should have risked the penalty/yellow card.

    In the immortal words of one Andrew Gray " Do me a favor love". Come off it, you don't honestly believe this.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



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    #1418
    tolosenc
    Registered Users Posts: 6,889 ✭✭✭tolosenc


    Amazotheamazing wrote: »
    No I think TOL is to blame for the try, as I said. I think Sexton should have fouled Trinh Duc though to stop the try being given. It ended the game for us. What's depressing is it looks like Sexton jumps out of Trinh Duc's way when he goes for the ball. He's an experienced pro, he should have risked the penalty/yellow card.

    It's a non competitve match.

    Last minute in the World Cup final when you're up by 4-6 points? Yeah, boot to chest, no holds barred, desperation stuff.

    To me it looks as if Sexton may have misjudged it slightly, seemed to back off thinking it was going longer than it was.


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    #1419
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Ireland by less than 20
    Amazotheamazing wrote: »
    No I think TOL is to blame for the try, as I said. I think Sexton should have fouled Trinh Duc though to stop the try being given. It ended the game for us. What's depressing is it looks like Sexton jumps out of Trinh Duc's way when he goes for the ball. He's an experienced pro, he should have risked the penalty/yellow card.

    This is retarded.


    So is most of this thread.


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    #1420
    tolosenc
    Registered Users Posts: 6,889 ✭✭✭tolosenc


    KELTICKNIGHTT wrote: »
    dont think theres a perceived Munster bias ,think he listens to wrong people instead of being a coach ,the leinster and munster setup isnt working
    didnt work before kidney either but was a little better

    a coach who never coached here before in ireland new back room staff,start from scratch with players

    n33974_t64379_not_sure_if_srs.jpg


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    #1421
    KELTICKNIGHTT
    Registered Users Posts: 3,799 ✭✭✭KELTICKNIGHTT


    tolosenc wrote: »
    n33974_t64379_not_sure_if_srs.jpg

    :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:


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    #1422
    Amazotheamazing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,048 ✭✭✭Amazotheamazing


    JRant wrote: »
    In the immortal words of one Andrew Gray " Do me a favor love". Come off it, you don't honestly believe this.

    Yes, i do. I genuinely believe it's ok to foul people to stop giving away tries. I know it's against the laws, and indeed, the spirit of the game, but thems the brokes, game was over once that try was scored. I never realised the Corinthian spirit was so strong here.


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    #1423
    JRant
    Registered Users Posts: 12,852 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    KELTICKNIGHTT wrote: »
    dont think theres a perceived Munster bias ,think he listens to wrong people instead of being a coach ,the leinster and munster setup isnt working
    didnt work before kidney either but was a little better

    a coach who never coached here before in ireland new back room staff,start from scratch with players

    That why i'd have Deans if at all possible.

    It's like one half of the team wants to play one way while the other half try to play a different way. And this is leading to the awful confused rugby we are playing at present.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



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    #1424
    KELTICKNIGHTT
    Registered Users Posts: 3,799 ✭✭✭KELTICKNIGHTT


    JRant wrote: »
    That why i'd have Deans if at all possible.

    It's like one half of the team wants to play one way while the other half try to play a different way. And this is leading to the awful confused rugby we are playing at present.

    so leadership on and off the field,been that way for a while


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    #1425
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Ireland by less than 20
    JRant wrote: »
    That why i'd have Deans if at all possible.

    It's like one half of the team wants to play one way while the other half try to play a different way. And this is leading to the awful confused rugby we are playing at present.

    at the moment its more like nobody on the team has any idea whatsoever about what they're supposed to do when they have the ball, and they're checking themself, and not backing their own talents and abilities "for the team".

    But the team gameplan is weaker than a gauze bag.

    We are irelevant, we are impotent and we are absolutely brutal with the ball. We don't really deserve to be involved. Unforunately, there are plenty of us here who thought that this might come. We were hoping we were wrong, but we should be well aware at this stage that Kidney is a man manager, and has no strength bar that as a rugby coach.

    I love this team so much, and we're making fools of ourselves.


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    #1426
    sock puppet
    Registered Users Posts: 4,586 ✭✭✭sock puppet


    Amazotheamazing wrote: »
    No I think TOL is to blame for the try, as I said. I think Sexton should have fouled Trinh Duc though to stop the try being given. It ended the game for us. What's depressing is it looks like Sexton jumps out of Trinh Duc's way when he goes for the ball. He's an experienced pro, he should have risked the penalty/yellow card.

    Definite yellow, possible penalty try and possible citing. Only an utter moron would do it.


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    #1427
    KELTICKNIGHTT
    Registered Users Posts: 3,799 ✭✭✭KELTICKNIGHTT


    Deleted User wrote: »
    at the moment its more like nobody on the team has any idea whatsoever about what they're supposed to do when they have the ball, and they're checking themself, and not backing their own talents and abilities "for the team".

    But the team gameplan is weaker than a gauze bag.

    We are irelevant, we are impotent and we are absolutely brutal with the ball. We don't really deserve to be involved. Unforunately, there are plenty of us here who thought that this might come. We were hoping we were wrong, but we should be well aware at this stage that Kidney is a man manager, and has no strength bar that as a rugby coach.

    I love this team so much, and we're making fools of ourselves.
    theres more than kidney too blame,the backroom coaching staff,even before kidbey,we had problems but just got worse


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    #1428
    Amazotheamazing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,048 ✭✭✭Amazotheamazing


    sock puppet wrote: »
    Definite yellow, possible penalty try and possible citing. Only an utter moron would do it.

    Citing for blocking a player, are you being serious? It's done in every game, hell, England build their game around it. At most it'd be a yellow for stopping a definite try, it'd probably only be a penalty.

    For all the "must win" fans around here, a surprising amount aren't willing to do much to "must win".


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    #1429
    JRant
    Registered Users Posts: 12,852 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    Amazotheamazing wrote: »
    Yes, i do. I genuinely believe it's ok to foul people to stop giving away tries. I know it's against the laws, and indeed, the spirit of the game, but thems the brokes, game was over once that try was scored. I never realised the Corinthian spirit was so strong here.

    In absolutely no way was that try anything to do with Sexton, FACT.
    It was completely down to TOL, FACT.
    Game was lost once Kidney selected TOL, FACT.
    We were rubbish today regardless of "corinthian spirit", FACT.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



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    #1430
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Ireland by less than 20
    KELTICKNIGHTT wrote: »
    theres more than kidney too blame,the backroom coaching staff,even before kidbey,we had problems but just got worse

    You realise that as the manager Kidney is supposed to be in control of his back room staff?

    The buck stops with him. If I was heading up a project in work and returned results like DK I'd be fired quicker than you could say his name. Excuses such as "I don't have the right resources" when you're in control of getting these resources are absolute muck!

    We are impotent. We are careless. And we are in a jock.


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    #1431
    KELTICKNIGHTT
    Registered Users Posts: 3,799 ✭✭✭KELTICKNIGHTT


    BOD hasnt been the same player way back when he came back from injury when on tour in Australia


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    #1432
    sock puppet
    Registered Users Posts: 4,586 ✭✭✭sock puppet


    Amazotheamazing wrote: »
    Citing for blocking a player, are you being serious? It's done in every game, hell, England build their game around it. At most it'd be a yellow for stopping a definite try, it'd probably only be a penalty.

    No the citing comes from taking a player out in the air. A Perpignan winger got a red and a six week ban for it this year. But it'd be totally worth it just to prevent a try.


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    #1433
    JRant
    Registered Users Posts: 12,852 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    Deleted User wrote: »
    You realise that as the manager Kidney is supposed to be in control of his back room staff?

    The buck stops with him. If I was heading up a project in work and returned results like DK I'd be fired quicker than you could say his name. Excuses such as "I don't have the right resources" when you're in control of getting these resources are absolute muck!

    We are impotent. We are careless. And we are in a jock.

    And more worryingly than all those things we are passionless. Bare 15 minutes against France and a once off against the old enemy in the 6 nations we are getting hammered at the breakdown. We also have a serious lack of physicality at the moment.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



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    #1434
    Amazotheamazing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,048 ✭✭✭Amazotheamazing


    sock puppet wrote: »
    No the citing comes from taking a player out in the air. A Perpignan winger got a red and a six week ban for it this year. But it'd be totally worth it just to prevent a try.

    Stepping in front of a player isn't the same as taking someone out in the air, even taking someone out in the air while contesting the ball is usually just a penalty if at all. Quite what Sexton thought he'd achieve by backing away from the pass is anyone's guess.

    I'd be surprised if the above citing is anything like Trinh Duc's interception.


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    #1435
    KELTICKNIGHTT
    Registered Users Posts: 3,799 ✭✭✭KELTICKNIGHTT


    Deleted User wrote: »
    You realise that as the manager Kidney is supposed to be in control of his back room staff?

    The buck stops with him. If I was heading up a project in work and returned results like DK I'd be fired quicker than you could say his name. Excuses such as "I don't have the right resources" when you're in control of getting these resources are absolute muck!

    We are impotent. We are careless. And we are in a jock.

    i realize that its more than just management thats wrong,alot of players should be dropped
    i realize it takes management and players too make it happen
    these players are meant too be pro's,not amateurs
    we had gatland,we had o sullivan, and now kidney

    get a head coach outside ireland,who never coached here with backroom staff,drop the players who not performing and build,get new blood in,will take awhile but good base too start from


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    #1436
    Cpt_Blackbeard
    Registered Users Posts: 2,456 ✭✭✭Cpt_Blackbeard


    JRant wrote: »
    In absolutely no way was that try anything to do with Sexton, FACT.
    It was completely down to TOL, FACT.
    Game was lost once Kidney selected TOL, FACT.
    We were rubbish today regardless of "corinthian spirit", FACT.

    Houdini has to share a heavy part of the blame. He ran the ball from the back of a scrum but he shyed away from contact and gave it to his 9 in a terrible position. It was obviously a terrible pass from TOL but its not as bad as D'Arcy's today or Reddan's last year against England.

    We can all be happy about TOL missing the plane because it was the right choice but, he is not 100% to blame for the try. I do agree that Sexton should have risked a binning to keep the try out but, I wouldn't put any blame on him.


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    #1437
    tolosenc
    Registered Users Posts: 6,889 ✭✭✭tolosenc


    Amazotheamazing wrote: »
    For all the "must win" fans around here, a surprising amount aren't willing to do much to "must win".

    Well yeah, we must win. But not at the expense of one of our best players for the group stage of the World Cup. As pointed out, had he done that, it probably would have been a penalty try too. In rugby, deliberate fouling to stop the scoring of a try results in the awarding of a try regardless.

    Unrelated: Does anyone else think that a penalty try should be 7 points, no need for a conversion?
    Deleted User wrote: »
    at the moment its more like nobody on the team has any idea whatsoever about what they're supposed to do when they have the ball, and they're checking themself, and not backing their own talents and abilities "for the team".

    Watching Oz and Italia, both sets of players knew exactly what they were going to do, before the player before them even got the ball. Irish players tend to realise they have to do something once the ball lands in their hands.

    We need one of Deans, Mallett, Kirwan or Henry. It is absolute craziness that Kidney is in charge up to the NEXT World Cup. Squad with an average age of 33, anyone?


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    #1438
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Ireland by less than 20
    Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »
    Houdini has to share a heavy part of the blame. He ran the ball from the back of a scrum but he shyed away from contact and gave it to his 9 in a terrible position. It was obviously a terrible pass from TOL but its not as bad as D'Arcy's today or Reddan's last year against England.

    We can all be happy about TOL missing the plane because it was the right choice but, he is not 100% to blame for the try. I do agree that Sexton should have risked a binning to keep the try out but, I wouldn't put any blame on him.

    Calling him Houdini is hilarious. Because it is so ****ing wrong.

    You are a space cadet at the best of times. Obviously World Cup time is going to exacerbate your blatant inability to commend anyone but "your guys"


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    #1439
    JRant
    Registered Users Posts: 12,852 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    KELTICKNIGHTT wrote: »
    i realize that its more than just management thats wrong,alot of players should be dropped
    i realize it takes management and players too make it happen
    these players are meant too be pro's,not amateurs
    we had gatland,we had o sullivan, and now kidney

    get a head coach outside ireland,who never coached here with backroom staff,drop the players who not performing and build,get new blood in,will take awhile but good base too start from

    Have to take umbrage with this. Our current malaise is all down to management as they are picking under performing players and sending them out with a mishmash game plan.

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



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    #1440
    circos
    Registered Users Posts: 463 ✭✭circos


    USA
    We arent hitting rucks fast enough from what i can see. Not committing enough men at the breakdown either. Every time an Irish player breaks the gain line and gets tackled we take 3 to 4 seconds to get to them. No support for an offload or quick ball..

    Its the way the game is these days and without quick and secured ball we have no hope of progressing


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    #1441
    Amazotheamazing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,048 ✭✭✭Amazotheamazing


    tolosenc wrote: »
    Well yeah, we must win. But not at the expense of one of our best players for the group stage of the World Cup. As pointed out, had he done that, it probably would have been a penalty try too. In rugby, deliberate fouling to stop the scoring of a try results in the awarding of a try regardless.

    Unrelated: Does anyone else think that a penalty try should be 7 points, no need for a conversion?


    Do you really think he'd have been cited? Anyway, the point is to do it like you're contesting for the ball, if at all possible.


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