New EU motorbike laws - Protests all over EU 25th Sept

Paparazzo · 30-08-2011 07:29PM

goldie fish wrote: »

You posted a link to EU documentation which has no occurrence of the word "motorbike" or "motorcycle".
Please show where the EU are making the proposals being discussed? I'm not being pedantic, I just need to know exactly what the deal is, so I can point it out to my MEP.

Exactly, I'm not going to protest and piss off the public on stuff that's not happening. I'd definitely want clarification on what's happening with links to back it up.
An email to Leo Varadkar might clear some stuff up

Syth · 30-08-2011 07:44PM

Reading that report from the RSA is interesting. There are some points that are show that it's not all bikers fault. If you're talking to your public representative, you should bring them up.

e.g.

RSA wrote:

14% of motorcyclist casualties resulted from collisions involving other vehicles
driven by unaccompanied learner drivers.

This law about learner drivers clearly needs to be enforced more.

RSA wrote:

research literature shows
that collisions involving SUVs cause more deaths and serious injuries among
pedestrians and cyclists as well as drivers and occupants of smaller vehicles . It is
also likely that such designs will have a negative impact on the severity of injuries
sustained by motorcyclists involved in such collisions

SUVs are bad, mmmkay

chasm · 30-08-2011 08:01PM

I recall reading something about this a month or so ago, but as it didnt seem to be mentioned in any irish media(no surprises there though!) i kind of forgot about it.

Just had a quick google and came across these:

http://www.righttoride.eu/?p=7455

On Tuesday 12th July 2011 the Internal Market and Consumer Protection (IMCO) committee met to consider 298 amendments tabled by MEPs on the European Commission’s proposal – Approval and market surveillance of two – or three-wheel vehicles and quadricycles.

The 15 minute session could not realistically wade through all the amendments therefore the MEP Wim van de Camp (The Rapporteur) in charge of the report, grouped the issues in a ten point summary:

Euro Emissions and Timetable for implementation

Standards for OBD (On Board Diagnostics) for scooter and mopeds

Time frame and engine size for implementing mandatory ABS (Anti Lock Brakes) and CBS (Combined Braking Systems)

Electric bicycles – speed and kilowatts

Anti-Tampering measures

Repair Maintenance Information (RMI)

Sustainability test – to look at the California test i.e. when a motorcycle is manufactured it complies with regulation – emissions and durability i.e. it should say within these regulations for a certain period of time/mileage.

End of series vehicles – new type approval rules

Weight of certain categories of vehicles

PTI (Periodical Technical Inspections)

However we must bear in mind that there is a long way to go, with the amendments to be finalised and voted on in a future IMCO meeting – 5th – 6th October 2011 and then presented to the European Parliament in October to be voted on (date TBC). Depending on this vote, there could be a further legislative process for all to agree.

(The article in the link is longer and more in depth)

Also found this: http://www.ridediaries.blogspot.com/ from RIDE magazines blog site. Seems to give a better breakdown imo

daenerysstormborn3 · 30-08-2011 08:15PM

goldie fish wrote: »

You posted a link to EU documentation which has no occurrence of the word "motorbike" or "motorcycle".
Please show where the EU are making the proposals being discussed? I'm not being pedantic, I just need to know exactly what the deal is, so I can point it out to my MEP.

Chasm beat me to it.

chasm · 30-08-2011 08:31PM

Here's the links for the working document, draft report and amendments

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/activities/committees/workingDocsCom/comparlDossier.do?dossier=IMCO%2F7%2F04190&body=IMCO&language=EN

goldie fish · 30-08-2011 09:01PM

pixiebean22 wrote: »

Chasm beat me to it.

Not really, He posted a EU version of MAGs interpretation.

He did hoewver after you posted post the working document.
It's like reading the Bloody Lisbore treaty. However I thank chasm greatly for sharing it. I'll read it at work (I work in the civil service, I get paid to read that sort of crap usually).

Has the current protest taken into account the recent amendments?

daenerysstormborn3 · 30-08-2011 09:04PM

goldie fish wrote: »

Not really, He posted a EU version of MAGs interpretation.

He did hoewver after you posted post the working document.
It's like reading the Bloody Lisbore treaty. However I thank chasm greatly for sharing it. I'll read it at work (I work in the civil service, I get paid to read that sort of crap usually).

Has the current protest taken into account the recent amendments?

Is it really that important who posted what and when?

Does anybody have any more demonstration details to post up?

goldie fish · 30-08-2011 09:07PM

pixiebean22 wrote: »

Is it really that important who posted what and when?

Does anybody have any more demonstration details to post up?

Yes, If you post "chinese whispers" as fact, your whole argument will be laughable, and further protests will not be taken seriously.

MAG should be doing this, instead of sitting on their hands.

chasm · 30-08-2011 09:08PM

goldie fish wrote: »

Not really, He posted a EU version of MAGs interpretation.

He did hoewver after you posted post the working document.
It's like reading the Bloody Lisbore treaty. However I thank chasm greatly for sharing it. I'll read it at work (I work in the civil service, I get paid to read that sort of crap usually).

Has the current protest taken into account the recent amendments?

"She" actually

daenerysstormborn3 · 30-08-2011 09:09PM

goldie fish wrote: »

Yes, If you post "chinese whispers" as fact, your whole argument will be laughable, and further protests will not be taken seriously.

MAG should be doing this, instead of sitting on their hands.

Who is posting chinese whispers? MAG are doing something about this, hence this thread. Would anybody even know anything about these proposals if it wasn't for MAG?

slashtom · 30-08-2011 09:29PM

MAG should be posting factually accurate information, with each claim backed up with links to the relevant proposal.

It is not much to ask that they share the sources of information that they used to research the document.

daenerysstormborn3 · 30-08-2011 09:36PM

slashtom wrote: »

MAG should be posting factually accurate information, with each claim backed up with links to the relevant proposal.

It is not much to ask that they share the sources of information that they used to research the document.

Do you not think the people responsible for formulating these proposals should be the ones to bring them to the people they will be affecting? Do you not think that the official EU documentation should be released to the general public in the same way literature on the Lisbon Treaty etc was provided?

carsQhere · 31-08-2011 02:26PM

slashtom wrote: »

MAG should be posting factually accurate information

Just to clarify:

I am a member of the MAG Ireland executive.

The OP referes to content posted or published by MAG UK. I'm not sure where it originated.

MAG Ireland is a separate entity to MAG UK, and while much information and expertise is shared between MAG Ireland & MAG UK, neither is responsible for the communications of the other.

MAG Ireland makes every effort to ensure it's communications are factual and accurate. All official MAG Ireland content is on www.magireland.org while our UK brethern run their own site at www.mag-uk.org. Both MAG Ireland & MAG UK are members of FEMA through which we lobby at EU level.

BlackBlade · 31-08-2011 05:11PM

pixiebean22 wrote: »

Who is posting chinese whispers? MAG are doing something about this, hence this thread. Would anybody even know anything about these proposals if it wasn't for MAG?

MAG were the last ones to get on board!
this info came from the UK & europe and was floating around forums for at least a week before I even heard MAG mentioned!
we will see know if they actually do anything or if they just fill out member forms!:eek:

either way ALL bikers and bike fans need to get out there and protest!
they are try to take away basic human rights and jobs if you read into this properly!
every bike shop in town would close over night if bikes arnt aloud in urban areas!
and thats only the effect of 1 of the proposed changes!
We can not let this happen!

carsQhere · 31-08-2011 06:26PM

BlackBlade wrote: »

MAG were the last ones to get on board!
this info came from the UK & europe and was floating around forums for at least a week before I even heard MAG mentioned!

If you were following the MAG Ireland web site, or were a MAG member, you'd have seen this back in November of 2010;
http://www.magireland.org/2010/eu-fema/eu-in-new-squeeze-on-bikes/

Floating around forums for at least a week? 'nuff said.

slimo · 31-08-2011 08:07PM

why not join me on bikerfm.co.uk tonight ten till midnight where we will be passing this info on to the masses .
also get a request in or even a shout out ..

its tonight folks tune in and be part of the solution to this madness.

BlackBlade · 31-08-2011 08:21PM

carsQhere wrote: »

If you were following the MAG Ireland web site, or were a MAG member, you'd have seen this back in November of 2010;
http://www.magireland.org/2010/eu-fema/eu-in-new-squeeze-on-bikes/

Floating around forums for at least a week? 'nuff said.

follow the MAG site :eek:
what to see how many badges they sold ffs!
they do nothing!

buzzman78 · 01-09-2011 09:42AM

did anyone here bout a meeting place for wexford cheers

carsQhere · 01-09-2011 09:45AM

BlackBlade wrote: »

follow the MAG site :eek:
what to see how many badges they sold ffs!
they do nothing!

This nothing? Or this one?

I'll tell you one area where MAG has made no progress this year and that's insurance. The post of insurance liason remains unfilled.

Fancy having a go at it?

daenerysstormborn3 · 01-09-2011 09:50AM

carsQhere wrote: »

This nothing? Or this one?

I'll tell you one area where MAG has made no progress this year and that's insurance. The post of insurance liason remains unfilled.

Fancy having a go at it?

Sure then he/she wouldn't actually be able to moan about MAG :eek:

@buzzman - if there is nothing organised in Wexford yet you could always join in the Waterford one or just start a meet-up yourself. Just pick a fairly well known spot and post it up here. I think MAG are trying to post details of the demos on their site so the more information that's posted here or on other forums the better.

buzzman78 · 01-09-2011 11:25AM

sound il keep an eye on here

BlackBlade · 01-09-2011 01:51PM

carsQhere wrote: »

This nothing? Or this one?

I'll tell you one area where MAG has made no progress this year and that's insurance. The post of insurance liason remains unfilled.

Fancy having a go at it?

HA HA FFS how thick are you!
if these laws come in those parking spaces are no good to nobody as you wont be able to drive into town in the first place!
besides as long as Im alive there has been bikes parking on princes street so what exactly did they achieve there???
listen they may get the finger out now anyway!
I spent 15 years in the bike trade and this is the first thing Ive seen them do and sure thats no good if its over ruled anyway!
but where did all that membership money go?
anyway step up weather your a common biker of a MAG man just get out and get the job done!

carsQhere · 01-09-2011 04:02PM

BlackBlade wrote: »

HA HA FFS how thick are you!

Why the personal attack? I am not the issue here. If you want to have a go at MAG that's fair enough. Just back up what you say. If MAG have done nothing, specify what was not done. I gave you an example there about insurance, but you'd sooner call me thick than address that?

BlackBlade wrote: »

if these laws come in those parking spaces are no good to nobody as you wont be able to drive into town in the first place!

There's no EU proposal to ban bikes from urban areas. That's a domestic French proposal. There's no suggestion you won't be able to ride into town.

BlackBlade wrote: »

besides as long as Im alive there has been bikes parking on princes street so what exactly did they achieve there???

Getting a formally recognised secure place to park your bike where a taxi can't knock it over. No more, no less.

BlackBlade wrote: »

listen they may get the finger out now anyway!
I spent 15 years in the bike trade and this is the first thing Ive seen them do and sure thats no good if its over ruled anyway!

MAG's been around in one form or another since the late 80's. It was MAG brought in Carole Nash. It was MAG opened the insurance market with a complaint to the competition authority. But like you say, you didn't see them do that.

BlackBlade wrote: »

but where did all that membership money go?

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, the accounts are presented to the membership at the AGM, which you'd know if you were in MAG. If you're that keen to find out, turn up on the 24th with a valid membership and have a look. Details of the AGM are on the MAG web site.

BlackBlade wrote: »

anyway step up weather your a common biker of a MAG man just get out and get the job done!

That much we agree on

BlackBlade · 01-09-2011 04:11PM

carsQhere wrote: »

Why the personal attack? I am not the issue here. If you want to have a go at MAG that's fair enough. Just back up what you say. If MAG have done nothing, specify what was not done. I gave you an example there about insurance, but you'd sooner call me thick than address that?

There's no EU proposal to ban bikes from urban areas. That's a domestic French proposal. There's no suggestion you won't be able to ride into town.

we get it automatically if they do IF you do your reading there!

Getting a formally recognised secure place to park your bike where a taxi can't knock it over. No more, no less.

you mean off side parking that nobody else wants with high theft rates!!

MAG's been around in one form or another since the late 80's. It was MAG brought in Carole Nash. It was MAG opened the insurance market with a complaint to the competition authority. But like you say, you didn't see them do that.

nope! ye mean they claimed to or jumped on the bandwagon after the ball got rolling JUST like this time!

At the risk of sounding like a broken record, the accounts are presented to the membership at the AGM, which you'd know if you were in MAG. If you're that keen to find out, turn up on the 24th with a valid membership and have a look. Details of the AGM are on the MAG web site.

yes I see they have it after the Think Bike demo!
(ah lets rally while we are doing the accounts)

That much we agree on

we do indeed!
I dont want mag to be ****e but up to this when was the last time you heard of them?
I attend almost every major bike event in the country and you only ever see what 3 dudes selling membership at bike shows!
I was a member for years and sure once ye have the badge you dont hear any more, I relly hope this changes in the future because we need some kind of organisation over here!

simplybam · 01-09-2011 04:18PM

Anyhow, I'll be there for the Dublin one (should have my tank fixed by the weekend).

carsQhere · 01-09-2011 04:31PM

BlackBlade wrote: »

we do indeed!
I dont want mag to be ****e but up to this when was the last time you heard of them?

You're missing the point somewhat. MAG has been around all along. You clearly have it in your head that MAG "does nothing" where in fact what's been happening is that MAG has been doing things that you, for whatever reason, have not been aware of.

BlackBlade wrote: »

I attend almost every major bike event in the country and you only ever see what 3 dudes selling membership at bike shows!

When they're not selling memberships at bike shows, they're doing stuff like this;
http://www.magireland.org/2011/responses/nta-response/

Take a few minutes to to read this PDF from that post. That's the sort of stuff MAG is doing while you're not looking.

BlackBlade wrote: »

I was a member for years and sure once ye have the badge you dont hear any more, I relly hope this changes in the future because we need some kind of organisation over here!

We have an organisation. Just because MAG is not out there kicking down doors doesn't meant nothing is happening. The high viz thing first came up in 2009. MAG responded to the RSA consultation at the time. We've been bashing away at it on and off ever since.

The other thing that people need to understand here is that MAG is five (some times six) part time volunteers doing a few hours a week except for Linda who runs the MAG office and does a lot more. If you can do it better, get stuck in there.

BlackBlade · 01-09-2011 04:36PM

carsQhere wrote: »

:eek:

ye got ye MAG are great you obviously get your bit out of it now back to busyness! :rolleyes:

simplybam wrote: »

Anyhow, I'll be there for the Dublin one (should have my tank fixed by the weekend).

good man and bring the masses with ye!

simplybam · 01-09-2011 04:50PM

BlackBlade wrote: »

ye got ye MAG are great you obviously get your bit out of it now back to busyness! :rolleyes:

good man and bring the masses with ye!

Will try, only got back into motorcycling very recently after a 15 year break, but will certainly bring everyone I know who has ever heard of a motorbike!

BlackBlade · 01-09-2011 04:55PM

simplybam wrote: »

Will try, only got back into motorcycling very recently after a 15 year break, but will certainly bring everyone I know who has ever heard of a motorbike!

just spread the word!
A lot of bikers still dont know anything about this!
I have a bit of time off and have been mailing clubs etc!
and for our MAG rep here is a link I have been using

http://www.magireland.org/2011/slider/protest-rides-25th-september/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=facebook

even send a mail out to everybody in your email list everything counts at this stage!

navangang · 02-09-2011 09:51AM

Anything around trim,kells or navan happening??

unclebill98 · 02-09-2011 09:07PM

I'm on Cavan, Kells would be a runner for me.

l.m · 03-09-2011 02:55PM

I think we should then go into city centre to somewhere like Dame street?

goldie fish · 03-09-2011 04:12PM

l.m wrote: »

I think we should then go into city centre to somewhere like Dame street?

Thats a 4 hour commute for me.

(theres life outside the M50 you know.)

Antiquo · 05-09-2011 06:14PM

Pulled this link of the EC proposal from the MCN website. Nothing on our Gov sites (not surprising really). Its a bit of a long read but if you can't be bothered to read it don't moan about it.

Anyhow if you can't make one of the planned protests (and even if you can). Use the form attached by the UK DOT to protest to Leo, local TD's and your MEP's.

This insidious proposal has the potential to kill biking and everyone should let their elected representatives know this.

Do you want to be able to service your own machine?

Do you want the freedom to replace stock parts with aftermarket options?

Do you want non switchable ABS, bad enough on a road based machine potentially lethal on an off road capable machine?

BlackBlade · 06-09-2011 04:31AM

Meets for protests all over the country Ill try post them all!

Dublin

Apple service station on the M1 @ 12pm southbound just after Balbriggan
heading onwards for the M50- Redcow interchange meeting another group from south Dublin and on to city center

Cork
Protest at Opera House,1.30,Sun 25th.
Regional meets,rendevous at main event.
Northside-Blackman Pub,12.30
Southside-Topaz,Kinsale Rd 12.30
Macroom-Layby on City side of town 12.00
Mallow-Topaz,11.00.

Galway
eyre square at 12.30 on sept 25

Waterford
Clyde wharf, 1pm

WEXFORD

25th sep. 10am Mother Hubbards car park. Enniscorthy We will meet any one from there who wants to join the run in the car park by the riverside park hotel at 10.30. Then to Bunclody meetin in the town centre at 11.00. Then to carlow, we will meet another run outside abrakebabra at 11.30. From there all of us will head to waterford where we will meet the ride out there.

New Ross meet up
For anyone interested in travelling to the Waterford protest with us, we will be meeting outside Richie Roche's bar, The Quay, New Ross between12 and 12.30pm on Sunday, 25th of September. From there we will travel to Clyde Wharf, Waterford where we will meet up with protesters from Waterford , Wexford and Carlow.

MIDLANDS
MULLINGAR, TULLAMORE ,PORTLAOIS
25 September · 12:30 - 18:00
TOPAZ GARAGE TYRELLSPASS RD MULLINGAR THROUGH MULLINGAR TOWN , TULLAMORE ,PORTLAOIS

Antrim
The NW200 pits
Ballyreagh Road A2
Portstewart
we are meeting at 12.00pm with the intention of having a leisurely ride out along the Northwest 200 circuit at 1pm.

Ill update as info comes in!

BlackBlade · 06-09-2011 02:33PM

CAN MODS STICKY THIS PLEASE!

BlackBlade · 06-09-2011 02:44PM

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BlackBlade · 06-09-2011 02:44PM

thecivvie · 06-09-2011 04:17PM

@BlackBlade maybe do one for each protest, excellent image

thecivvie · 06-09-2011 04:23PM

Motorcycle News: Motorway demo over restrictive EU rules http://z.thecivvie.org/pWj4y1

BlackBlade · 06-09-2011 04:59PM

thecivvie wrote: »

@BlackBlade maybe do one for each protest, excellent image

Ill give it a go I just copied that one from the cork lads site!

thecivvie · 06-09-2011 05:15PM

Or ask him if he can supply without the header I guess

BlackBlade · 06-09-2011 05:18PM

thecivvie wrote: »

Or ask him if he can supply without the header I guess

good thinking batman!

daenerysstormborn3 · 11-09-2011 08:54AM

Just bumping this. Kicks off weekend after next.

goldie fish · 11-09-2011 08:02PM

pixiebean22 wrote: »

Just bumping this. Kicks off weekend after next.

Looking forward to it. Gives me an excuse not to go "somewhere else".:)

BlackBlade · 13-09-2011 03:03AM

pixiebean22 wrote: »

Just bumping this. Kicks off weekend after next.

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Pataman · 13-09-2011 12:49PM

How do I print those posters?

MikeC101 · 13-09-2011 01:04PM

It's a minor thing, but might want to change it to correct the spelling to "bureaucrat" instead of "beaurocrat" ? (It looks like a mix up with the slang term "Eurocrat" - for a bureaucrat in the EU).
Errors like that look bad for something like this, if they're picked up on.

Edit: At work so can only see the posters in post 88 and 89

turbodiesel · 13-09-2011 01:43PM

Lads, taken from page 3 of this link http://www.irishbikerforum.com/forums/index.php/topic/90333-mag-ireland-demo/

Seems like a good idea.

MAG member Jon Strong has had success in his highly detailed challenge to some of the EU Commission's most lazy assertions about what's good for you and me as riders.

Now we can do something very simple that will help Jon press his case and shine a spotlight on the Commission's attempts to steam-roller further restrictions on bike design, modification and use.

The European Ombudsman ( responsible for checking whether the EU is playing the game fairly ) recently found that the European Commission unjustifiably refused to answer Jon's queries or to supply official documents relating to a range of issues that will have a big impact on biking, eg; the changes to EU Type Approval, the potential for a Europe -wide super MOT test and development of safety technologies that could threaten biking as we know it. Jon has also asked to be shown the evidence in favour of EU proposals for random/ regular roadside inspections of motorcycles and for the Commission to show whether it has properly considered the liberty issues.

ACTION

All that is needed to show the authorities that there is genuine public concern about this, is for enough people reading this or hearing about it via us guys to contact the Ombudsman asking for copies of Jon's original complaint and the supporting documents. That will make sure the complaint wont get buried.

GO HERE ; Ombudsman.europa.eu/shortcuts/contacts.faces

QUOTE Ref ; 0875/2011/jf in your request, just asking for it will send the right message.

The reason we need to do this are that the Ombudsman isn't totally convinced or supportive of Jon's efforts in trying to hold the Commission to account, he just needs some support from more members of the public i.e US!!

So please carry out the simple email, re-post onto other forums you may be members on, this is the nitty gritty behind the scenes stuff that we dont see much of, the real campaigning by the likes of MAG etc, intelligent gentlemen who also happen to be bikers, taking the fight to the EU and picking loop holes with their oppresive ways.

Paarse Krokodil · 13-09-2011 03:13PM

I don't even have a bike but its terrible to see the government or the EU come along and try to ruin people's hobbies like this. It certainly isn't the only time they tried it.

It's in everybody's interest to protest against this even if they're not into bikes. Because once the motorbikes are gone the cars are next, and the scooters and then the bicycles and every other activity that incurs a risk of somebody getting hurt. Life might be very safe if all this stuff is banned but also not very interesting

New EU motorbike laws - Protests all over EU 25th Sept

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