New EU motorbike laws - Protests all over EU 25th Sept

daenerysstormborn3

I have not been able to find anything about this on boards and I'm really surprised.

The following has been lifted from another website so please excuse the first person speak. Also, I know it's long but please read it as this will directly impact you and your motorbike.

"Further to the meeting I've just had with the chairman of the committee of EU Internal Market and Consumer Protection (IMCO) I now have a better idea of what we are looking at as the Anti Tampering Regulation moves through the EU legislative process.

Amendments are on the table now and being discussed, like giving an opt out for special 'one-off' builders, (but only the British and the Finns want that) and also making ABS compulsory on mopeds too (Germans want that- or rather the German ABS industry wants that). When IMCO finally vote on this (4/5 or 6th Oct) it then goes to Parliament.

As this is a 'Framework Regulation' once passed it does not have to be transposed into Law in Individual Member States, as it will happen automatically.

So, as far as the 25th September Motorway Mayhem day goes, the 10 very real European issues that we still need to draw attention to are:

1- The Anti tampering Regulation: Specifically Article 18 which wants to stop all modifications to complete power train, from airbox to controlling the rear tyre profile.

2- Compulsory ABS. If we can't stop this, we must get a switch so that we have an option in difficult conditions where ABS doesn't function well.

3- Automatic headlights on- passing the blame for poor observation on to us.

4- OBD. On Board Diagnostics so that easy roadside checks can be made of our emissions and so that constant readouts of engine performance can be obtained. Expensive, complicated and with the threat, rather like a tacho, of identifying past riding style...

5- RMI. Repair and Maintenance Information. Rather than keeping it hidden and available for huge expense, there is a chance that manufacturers will be forced to provide ECU codes etc for a fee. What that fee is remains to be seen.

6- The very worrying article 52: "If systems, components or seperate technical units on a list in a delegated act to this regulation, have a dual use, for vehicles intended exclusively for racing on roads and for vehicles intended for use on public roads, they may not be sold or offered for sale to consumers"

So if your K&N filter can fit a CBR race bike and a CBR road bike, the best way to police that, is to make it illegal to sell the filter in Europe.

The Delegated Acts are the most scarey thing, as they are the lists and details drawn up by the unelected and we won't get to see what they are including until after the Regulation has been passed!

7- In solidarity with the French we will be drawing attention to their recent gov proposal to ban all bikes over 7 years old from an urban area and to make the wearing of day-glo/ reflective clothing compulsory.

8- Full sleeve day-glo clothing for riders and passengers has been proposed in the Irish Parliament too.

9- All these issues lead to the same thing, that we must take the blame for the incompetence of other road users. And while the emergency stop has been removed as a compulsory element of the car driving test, we are jumping through hoops with ill judged UK interpretation of EU licencing directives.

10- Another EU licencing Directive is on its way (3DLD) to step the bike licencing system still further and the DfT and DSA still haven't sorted even the consultation process, even though it is meant to be in law by now and enacted January 2013.


Plans for the day (25th Sept) are that all over the country riders meet at midday in M-way services (or suitable similar if there's no motorway to hand) and at exactly 13.00 groups of riders set off to ride perfectly legally at a sedate Sunday 45/50mph on the country's motorway network. Perhaps over bridges, near the confluence of other motorways etc.

The MAG and other websites will carry details of all the meeting places.

It's the simultaneous element that carries the weight, as even 50 bikes together will cause disruption, but happening everywhere across the country will be powerful and will have the traffic alerts discussing it. They'll be primed.

Riders will disperse as rapidly as they appeared, but after riding for a few junctions at below the speed the trucks use, our impact should be felt.

No need for marshalls, no one can go the wrong way.
No hot engines, no speeches, ride as far as you wish
One media contact number
The threat that we can do it again on a different day of the week will be established.

Our MEPs will be preparing to rubber stamp another regulation put before them. This time they may stop to read it.

Now I appreciate that this may be way too many words for your available space, but anything will be appreciated. If you could let the odd '25th September' appear subliminally throughout the magazine...
--
Kind regards

Paddy Tyson
Campaigns Co-ordinator
MAG (UK) - Motorcycle Action Group"

In short the text above reads like this: jobs will be lost through no more modified bikes, no more classic bikes, no more custom bikes, no more racing bikes, no more road racing in Ireland through the illegality of racing bike parts, the likes of bikefest and rallies will be no more (more revenue lost), what little freedom bikers have is being taken away and yet again we are being blamed 100% for the poor observation and driving skills of other road users.

If anybody knows anyone who works in the media could you please pass this onto them as there has been no reporting whatsoever on this matter.

As far as I know the vote is the 4th & 5th of October and we need to make our voices heard before then.

As far as I know the first demonstration is to be peaceful and cause little disruption that is why it is being held on a Sunday, it is to make our presence felt. Every demonstration after that will cause as much disruption as possible to get our point across.

thecivvie

Trying to get a Galway one organised for the same day, on the other forum

Flyin Irishman

Maybe we should try get boardsies to post up details of any protests happening in their area. That way other boardies in the same area can see where they can go. If you dont know of any demo in your area, Start one!

All demos should be scheduled for around 1pm on Sunday 25th September

Waterford City demo - leaving Red Square @ 1 (to be confirmed)
Cork - meetup at the layby on the cork side of macroom. then at 12 noon head as far as the roundabout at midleton and back to the tunnel
Galway demo - meet at CH BriarHill around 1230 and a ride to Eyre Square for 0130
Dublin - Wilton Terrace to Phoenix Park
Biker.ie rideout (Dublin) - meet in the Apple service station on the M1 southbound lane @ Lusk at 12pm, then ride slowly down the M1 onto the M50 to the Redcow interchange. Meet up with fellow bikers coming from the south side then probably onto the city centre
Cavan - contact unclebill98

thecivvie

Galway one is proposed to meet at CH BriarHill around 1230 and a ride to Eyre Square for 0130. This is the Oyster Festival weekend in Galway so it should be busy.

Details are not finalised

daenerysstormborn3

Flyin Irishman wrote: »

Maybe we should try get boardsies to post up details of any protests happening in their area. That way other boardies in the same area can see where they can go. If you dont know of any demo in your area, Start one!

All demos should be scheduled for 1pm

Waterford City demo - leaving Red Square @ 1 (to be confirmed)

I'll confirm ASAP.

Think majority of demos are trying to start around 1pm or so.

Try get as many demos with details, try to guarantee a good turnout

slashtom

Has anyone got links to back-up any of these points? I didn't know that the Dáil were discussing/considering mandatory full reflective jackets.

Syth

The "French banning old bikes" seems roughly legit (though the MAG crowd got the numbers wrong). Ecology Minister Nathalie Kosciusko-Morizet has proposed it, and proposed 8 urban areas initially (not 1). http://www.leparisien.fr/societe/ces-vehicules-bientot-bannis-des-centres-villes-06-04-2011-1395517.php However I'm not sure it was carried through or the government backpedaled afterwards (like the government here did with medical cards for OAPs). Who knows how popular within the French Government Nathalie Kosciusko-Morizet is, after all, Jackie Healey-Rae was consulted about the budget before, doesn't mean a minor player like that is anything to be worried about.

Still searching for references to the impending irish requirement for full sleeve day glow jackets. (France seem to be proposing it and a MOT for motorbikes, something the UK have had for a while)

daenerysstormborn3

slashtom wrote: »

Has anyone got links to back-up any of these points? I didn't know that the Dáil were discussing/considering mandatory full reflective jackets.

I'm just going on what i've heard from MAG and i would take that as being official.

This is EU wide, not country specific.

Henry Ford III

I only recently bought a bike after many years away. 1996 and it's a good'un. Low VRT, and classic insurance.

They can go to hell - I'm carrying on riding my bike.

daenerysstormborn3

Henry Ford III wrote: »

I only recently bought a bike after many years away. 1996 and it's a good'un. Low VRT, and classic insurance.

They can go to hell - I'm carrying on riding my bike.

My bike is 18 years old, it's a Superfour. The Superfour is a popular bike with the provisional licence holders and the majority of the Superfours on the road would be around the 18 year old age, that'll take all of them off the road.

Another popular bike with provisional licence holders is the Hornet 250. You can generally get a 99-03 Hornet 250 for around the €2,000 mark, most people starting out can't afford more than that, that'll take a lot of the Hornets off the road.

For most beginners they can't afford a brand new bike, they can't afford a bike that's 5 years old, they can just about afford a bike that's 10 years old... do you see where I'm going here.

unclebill98

Any one doing one near Cavan, Monaghan or navan?

daenerysstormborn3

unclebill98 wrote: »

Any one doing one near Cavan, Monaghan or navan?

If there isn't one already organised I'd say if you pick a popular enough spot that a lot of people would know, pick a time, post up details here you should get a decent turn out.

l.m

Does anyone know about one in Dublin or Kildare?

daenerysstormborn3

l.m wrote: »

Does anyone know about one in Dublin or Kildare?

Pretty sure there's one going from Wilton Terrace to Phoenix Park.

If this thread doesn't get a lot of hits with info, check out globalmotorbikes.com or biker.ie or irishbikerforum.com for information on a demo in your area.

goldie fish

The new rules seem specifically written so BMW can corner the market.

Paparazzo

I never thought I'd ever say this. But do Gay Byrne and Pat Kenny know about this?

unclebill98

Joe Duffy?

Well I'd go with one in Cavan and I'll check out the other sites. Anyone want to do it in Cavan let's know.

slashtom

pixiebean22 wrote: »

I'm just going on what i've heard from MAG and i would take that as being official.

This is EU wide, not country specific.

I would not consider a press release from any lobby group as being official.

It would help immensely if MAG or anyone else could provide citations, otherwise we would end up believing anything we are told.

carsQhere

Syth wrote: »

Still searching for references to the impending irish requirement for full sleeve day glow jackets. (France seem to be proposing it and a MOT for motorbikes, something the UK have had for a while)

Here ya go...
http://www.magireland.org/2011/campaigns/hiviz/hivizbackground/

MOT for bikes is called "Periodic Technical Inspection" or PTI for short... see;
http://www.magireland.org/category/campaigns/pti/
and
http://www.fema-online.eu/index.php?page=rwt

Syth

unclebill98 wrote: »

Joe Duffy?

Joe Duffy would quickly fill the show with concerned middle aged women complaining about young boy racers who want to kill everyone.

carsQhere

MAG has a page with info on the protests for the 25th.

If you want to get listed get on to http://www.magireland.org/contact/ and put the details in the contact form or mail office@magireland.org or phone 01 602 0695 (office opening hours on the contact page link above). The more publicity the better.

The post here... http://www.magireland.org/2011/slider/protest-rides-25th-september/ ...will be updated as more events come in.

There is an official MAG demo on the 24th: http://www.magireland.org/2011/slider/think-bike-demo-2011/

Paparazzo

Most worring things in there for me are:

4- OBD. On Board Diagnostics so that easy roadside checks can be made of our emissions and so that constant readouts of engine performance can be obtained. Expensive, complicated and with the threat, rather like a tacho, of identifying past riding style...

Does this mean they can stop you and check what speed you were doing?

7- In solidarity with the French we will be drawing attention to their recent gov proposal to ban all bikes over 7 years old from an urban area and to make the wearing of day-glo/ reflective clothing compulsory.

Never mind day glow jackets. Banning bikes over 7 years old from urban areas!!! Are they for real? That's the stupidest thing I ever heard!

Syth wrote: »

Joe Duffy would quickly fill the show with concerned middle aged women complaining about young boy racers who want to kill everyone.

Yeah, Joe would be no help. I mentioned Pat and Gaybo because they both have bikes. Or had bikes.

daenerysstormborn3

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/document/activities/cont/201102/20110217ATT13814/20110217ATT13814EN.pdf

Environmental requirements
As L-category vehicles are responsible for only 3 % of total road transport mileage, their pollutant emissions are considered disproportionately high. Your rapporteur supports the introduction of more severe emission limits. He calls on manufacturers to set out compliance as soon as possible, turning this into a competitive advantage. Several L-vehicles currently on offer already comply with the higher emission standards. For this reason the so-called "optional" application dates should be deleted. Your rapporteur supports in this respect the proposed durability requirements. However, the increase of the mileage in the final Euro 5/6 stage is considered too stringent and these should thus be slightly modified.
On-board diagnostic (OBD) systems can make information on engine and vehicle management (i.e. emissions) easily available so that the vehicle can be repaired effectively and efficiently. While your rapporteur in principle agrees with the proposed stepped approach to mandatory introduce OBD systems, he however questions the proportionality of the provision requiring the use of OBD on mopeds.
Safety measures
L-category drivers face a much higher risk of fatal or serious accidents than drivers of other vehicles. L-category vehicles accounted for 2 % of the distance travelled but 16 % of road deaths in the EU-25.1 While your rapporteur fully acknowledges the importance of human behaviour when it comes to safe driving as well as the impact of the driving conditions, he is determined to properly address the safety issue related to the technical features of the vehicle. He therefore supports the mandatory introduction of affordable advanced braking systems (combined brake system (CBS) or anti-lock brakes systems (ABS)) on all new motorcycles in line with the Commission proposal, with the exception of the Enduro and Trial motorcycles. Your rapporteur calls on the industry to offer optional ABS in all motorbike categories as soon as possible and to encourage consumers to opt for ABS equipped bikes. Your rapporteur also welcomes the proposal on the automatic headlight on (AHO) in order to improve the visibility of L-vehicles.
Your rapporteur observes that within the motorcycle community a well established culture of modification exists, to improve the performance of their vehicles. Preventing this will disadvantage many qualified riders. It should therefore be left to the discretion of Member States to deal with this kind of modifications. On the other hand, your rapporteur calls for a tough line of action against tampering aimed at illegally increasing the maximum vehicle speed at the cost of pollutant emissions, fuel consumption and safety.
Small series and individual vehicle approval
Your rapporteur supports the great variety of L-vehicles and small and medium sized enterprises (SMEs) in the sector. Therefore he proposes to adapt the numbers for small series for all L-vehicles to allow for this diversity (Annex III). The individuality of their product is important for many users of L-vehicles. For this reason, your rapporteur supports the Commission proposal on individual approval (Article 42).
Access to repair and maintenance information (RMI)
Your rapporteur is strongly in favour of any measure ensuring a level playing field as regards the access to repair and maintenance information (RMI). He proposes to further clarify the definition of “independent operator” or “repairer” in order to ensure that the individual vehicle user and repairers will have sufficient access to RMI at reasonable costs.

daenerysstormborn3

Paparazzo wrote: »

Most worring things in there for me are:

Does this mean they can stop you and check what speed you were doing?


Yep, that's pretty much it in a nutshell. I don't think they should be allowed prosecute you for something they don't actually catch you doing. It seems to me this is yet another speeding kills ploy. Obviously the millions they spent on their new speed camera vans didn't pay off yet.

Never mind day glow jackets. Banning bikes over 7 years old from urban areas!!! Are they for real? That's the stupidest thing I ever heard!



Yeah, Joe would be no help. I mentioned Pat and Gaybo because they both have bikes. Or had bikes.

Think Gaybo gave that bike to Vicar Street - I believe that's the one hanging in the window.

slashtom

carsQhere wrote: »

Here ya go...
http://www.magireland.org/2011/campaigns/hiviz/hivizbackground/

MOT for bikes is called "Periodic Technical Inspection" or PTI for short... see;
http://www.magireland.org/category/campaigns/pti/
and
http://www.fema-online.eu/index.php?page=rwt

Thanks for the links.

Although I think MAG UK are stretching the truth a little by stating that "Full sleeve day-glo clothing for riders and passengers has been proposed in the Irish Parliament" when in fact it is merely a proposal of a Government agency.

However such a proposal would be quite an annoyance and expense.

The PTI on the other hand is not without merit. The NCT has improved the quality of cars on the road, and there is little doubt that there are many poorly maintained bikes that shouldn't be on the road either.

daenerysstormborn3

slashtom wrote: »

Thanks for the links.

Although I think MAG UK are stretching the truth a little by stating that "Full sleeve day-glo clothing for riders and passengers has been proposed in the Irish Parliament" when in fact it is merely a proposal of a Government agency.

However such a proposal would be quite an annoyance and expense.

The PTI on the other hand is not without merit. The NCT has improved the quality of cars on the road, and there is little doubt that there are many poorly maintained bikes that shouldn't be on the road either.

What about the likes of street fighters and cafe racers, will they be tested under strict conditions like cars are i.e. rules in relation to window tint, tyres, noise levels from exhausts etc. Everything on a street fighter and a cafe racer is an actual functioning part but yet will they try to say that these are illegal and a fail?

slashtom

pixiebean22 wrote: »

Your rapporteur is strongly in favour of any measure ensuring a level playing field as regards the access to repair and maintenance information (RMI). He proposes to further clarify the definition of “independent operator” or “repairer” in order to ensure that the individual vehicle user and repairers will have sufficient access to RMI at reasonable costs.

Thanks for the link and info. There doesn't sound anything too heinous in there, in my opinion. I think it's good that they're trying to protect the small independent traders by forcing the manufacturers hand on the above point.

slashtom

pixiebean22 wrote: »

What about the likes of street fighters and cafe racers, will they be tested under strict conditions like cars are i.e. rules in relation to window tint, tyres, noise levels from exhausts etc. Everything on a street fighter and a cafe racer is an actual functioning part but yet will they try to say that these are illegal and a fail?

Are you referring to components like a race can that is marked "not for road use" being classed as illegal?

daenerysstormborn3

slashtom wrote: »

Are you referring to components like a race can that is marked "not for road use" being classed as illegal?

No.

goldie fish

carsQhere wrote: »

Here ya go...
http://www.magireland.org/2011/campaigns/hiviz/hivizbackground/

MOT for bikes is called "Periodic Technical Inspection" or PTI for short... see;
http://www.magireland.org/category/campaigns/pti/
and
http://www.fema-online.eu/index.php?page=rwt

Is there any source of the proposals other than from a MAG source?

i.e hypothetical situation, biker on protest is interviewed about protest and gives MAG spin answer which bears little resemblance to the actual issue. Chinese whispers and all that.

daenerysstormborn3

goldie fish wrote: »

Is there any source of the proposals other than from a MAG source?

i.e hypothetical situation, biker on protest is interviewed about protest and gives MAG spin answer which bears little resemblance to the actual issue. Chinese whispers and all that.

I have posted a link to the EU documentation.

Flyin Irishman

slashtom wrote: »

Are you referring to components like a race can that is marked "not for road use" being classed as illegal?

No, it refers to components that are currently used in race bikes, and also in road bikes:

If systems, components or seperate technical units on a list in a delegated act to this regulation, have a dual use, for vehicles intended exclusively for racing on roads and for vehicles intended for use on public roads, they may not be sold or offered for sale to consumers

So any component that may also be used in a race bike would no longer be road legal. This could be made to include things as common as air filters and tyres

turbodiesel

Flyin Irishman wrote: »

No, it refers to components that are currently used in race bikes, and also in road bikes:



So any component that may also be used in a race bike would no longer be road legal. This could be made to include things as common as air filters and tyres

Race tyres that are stamped "not for road use" are illegal anyway. There's plenty of road legal soft compound tyres that not do more than 2-3 k miles on a 1 litre sportsbike and even less if used on track days. I can't see the air filter coming in there either as long as we use the basis of like with like when a car uses an induction kit and still passes the NCT. Never thought I'd say this but an NCT under the same frequency as a car NCT is probably a good idea. But I will be out protesting as there a few items in there that i am very much against.....

When they decide that car drivers can only drive more powerful vehicles according to stages of experience than i might consider bikers being restricted on a likewise basis but as it stands if you can afford the insurance there's nothingn stopping an 18 year old getting into a high powered car with only a freshly passed driving licence under his belt......

I'm not anti 4 wheels myself and i spend just as much time in the car as i do my bike but I do believe in equal restrictions for all inexperienced road users.

carsQhere

slashtom wrote: »

Thanks for the links.

Although I think MAG UK are stretching the truth a little by stating that "Full sleeve day-glo clothing for riders and passengers has been proposed in the Irish Parliament" when in fact it is merely a proposal of a Government agency.

To someone outside Ireland the difference may not be apparent.

Remember, learners are already subject to mandatory high viz as they have to wear a tabard.

slashtom wrote: »

The PTI on the other hand is not without merit. The NCT has improved the quality of cars on the road, and there is little doubt that there are many poorly maintained bikes that shouldn't be on the road either.

PTI for bikes would be hugely expensive. Bikes are about 3% of vehicles. Modifying even a small number of Nct test centres to cater for bikes, training operatives, etc would result in a test cost far in excess of that for cars unless the costs were shared in which case the NCT for cars would go up in price also.

IIRC the RSA's own figures showed a statistically insignificant number of bike accidents were caused by mechanical failure. I think it was less than 1% and since bikes are only about 3% of traffic on the road what's the point?

daenerysstormborn3

I think some of you are missing the point here. Any part that can be used in both a racing bike and a road bike, I'm not talking about things that have stamped on them "not for road use", are going to be made illegal to buy.

And for those of you saying "I can't see this coming in and I can't see that coming in", it's there in black and white what the proposals are and the likes of the RSA and the government are going to make it as difficult as possible for bikers in Ireland because as far as they're concerned we're all speed freaks and the only possible solution to any problems on the roads is to get rid of us altogether.

Pique

pixiebean22 wrote: »

I think some of you are missing the point here. Any part that can be used in both a racing bike and a road bike, I'm not talking about things that have stamped on them "not for road use", are going to be made illegal to buy.

And for those of you saying "I can't see this coming in and I can't see that coming in", it's there in black and white what the proposals are and the likes of the RSA and the government are going to make it as difficult as possible for bikers in Ireland because as far as they're concerned we're all speed freaks and the only possible solution to any problems on the roads is to get rid of us altogether.

This is reminiscent of the 'reds under the bed' paranoia.

They want us gone.
They hate us.
They're out to get us.

Please !

Governments are not gonna sign off on legislation that will remove a large source of revenue (tax, licencing, fuel excise etc) from the coffers.

Removing parts that have a use in racing from road use is completely ridiculous and WILL NOT HAPPEN. In that case, what's to stop them from barring, all superbikes, supersports, 125s etc from the road as they race as standard on tracks and road races ? In essence, all faired bikes are illegal. All motocross/enduro. All that will be left will be streetfighters, tourers and big trailies. (My dream of owning a Street Triple R remains a possibility:) ).
You think Ducati & BMW are gonna allow that (and remember they are large lobbyists) ? No GS 650/800, S1000RR, 898, 1098 ? No KTMs at all.

The diagnostic ports for 'instant performance readouts' is impractical and will also be shot down. How do you retrofit things like this on older non FI bikes with sfa of an ECU (if any) ?

Barring older bikes from urban areas, possible to introduce, impossible to enforce.

The PTI is very plausible and no harm.
Compulsory Hi-Vis is likely.
Mandatory DRL is probable but tbh, who here rides without lights in any case?

daenerysstormborn3

Pique wrote: »

This is reminiscent of the 'reds under the bed' paranoia.

They want us gone.
They hate us.
They're out to get us.

Please !

Governments are not gonna sign off on legislation that will remove a large source of revenue (tax, licencing, fuel excise etc) from the coffers.

Removing parts that have a use in racing from road use is completely ridiculous and WILL NOT HAPPEN. In that case, what's to stop them from barring, all superbikes, supersports, 125s etc from the road as they race as standard on tracks and road races ? In essence, all faired bikes are illegal. All motocross/enduro. All that will be left will be streetfighters, tourers and big trailies. (My dream of owning a Street Triple R remains a possibility:) ).
You think Ducati & BMW are gonna allow that (and remember they are large lobbyists) ? No GS 650/800, S1000RR, 898, 1098 ? No KTMs at all.

The diagnostic ports for 'instant performance readouts' is impractical and will also be shot down. How do you retrofit things like this on older non FI bikes with sfa of an ECU (if any) ?

Barring older bikes from urban areas, possible to introduce, impossible to enforce.

The PTI is very plausible and no harm.
Compulsory Hi-Vis is likely.
Mandatory DRL is probable but tbh, who here rides without lights in any case?

Explain to me how you know this?

Nobody is being paranoid. These restrictions and proposals are being considered, therefore there is a possibility that they will come into effect. I don't see how that equates to people being paranoid.

And no, I don't think the bike manufacturers want this to happen but what say will they have if these proposals are made into law?

Running diagnostics on older bikes won't be much of a problem considering they're trying to ban bikes over 7 years old from urban areas which effectively would lead to them being off the road anyway.

Aside from what little information we do have, the most worrying part of all this is the Delegated Acts. What do they involve? What other restrictions will they bring into effect? We won't know until they're already signed off on.

I know some people may view this thread as being OTT in that it is impossible to believe that the government will sign off on the majority of these proposals but the fact remains that they are being considered with the possibility of some, maybe all, of them being signed off on and brought into law. That in itself is reason enough to protest and try our best to fight this.

KTRIC

What about older bikes, I can't see how they are going to retrofit all this stuff to them. Do they really think I'm going to bring my race tuned GSX 1400 in to be dicked around with ??? :rolleyes:

Paparazzo

pixiebean22 wrote: »

Explain to me how you know this?

Nobody is being paranoid. These restrictions and proposals are being considered, therefore there is a possibility that they will come into effect. I don't see how that equates to people being paranoid.

And no, I don't think the bike manufacturers want this to happen but what say will they have if these proposals are made into law?

Running diagnostics on older bikes won't be much of a problem considering they're trying to ban bikes over 7 years old from urban areas which effectively would lead to them being off the road anyway.

Aside from what little information we do have, the most worrying part of all this is the Delegated Acts. What do they involve? What other restrictions will they bring into effect? We won't know until they're already signed off on.

I know some people may view this thread as being OTT in that it is impossible to believe that the government will sign off on the majority of these proposals but the fact remains that they are being considered with the possibility of some, maybe all, of them being signed off on and brought into law. That in itself is reason enough to protest and try our best to fight this.

Is the any link to support the claim that bikes over 7 years old will be banned from urban areas? That part from the op is so vague, so unworkable, so stupid and so unenforceable that I just don't believe it.

carsQhere

KTRIC wrote: »

What about older bikes, I can't see how they are going to retrofit all this stuff to them. Do they really think I'm going to bring my race tuned GSX 1400 in to be dicked around with ??? :rolleyes:

No need to retrofit anything. Under a PTI or National Bike Test, or whatever it eventually might become, your "race tuned" gixxer will simply be failed for having one tooth less on the rear sproket, or non standard pipes, or emissions or whatever. Then you'll be up for 5 points (per not having an NCT disk on your car).

In the National Motorcycle safety Action Plan 2010-2014, the RSA has said it wants periodic testing as a matter of "equity".
http://www.rsa.ie/Documents/Road%20Safety/Motorcycles/National_Motorcycle_Action_Plan.pdf
Section 4.2.8

carsQhere

Paparazzo wrote: »

Is the any link to support the claim that bikes over 7 years old will be banned from urban areas? That part from the op is so vague, so unworkable, so stupid and so unenforceable that I just don't believe it.

I believe that's a domestic French proposal - AFAIK, it's not an EU proposal.

daenerysstormborn3

Paparazzo wrote: »

Is the any link to support the claim that bikes over 7 years old will be banned from urban areas? That part from the op is so vague, so unworkable, so stupid and so unenforceable that I just don't believe it.

It's a French proposal only so far

Henry Ford III

pixiebean22 wrote: »

It's a French proposal only so far

I've only ever seen older bikes in France.......

daenerysstormborn3

Henry Ford III wrote: »

I've only ever seen older bikes in France.......

Is that a joke?

psicic

I only just found out about these proposals today!

As far as I can tell, the following is what's actually proposed at EU level:
1. Sealed engines - no more engine mods, self-repairs or independent garages.
2. Compulsory ABS
3. Always on headlights and running lights
4. New Categories of bike introduced at licencing stage (We currently have two categories (the A1 and the A) so it looks like they want to introduce more restrictions for moving up to higher powered bikes)
5. Emissions testing on bikes

Have I missed anything?

The high-vis vests and banning older bikes is a French initiative - though I wouldn't be surprised if Ireland follows the high-vis vests one.

If you ask me, each of the EU proposals are aimed at the Chinese imports that are becoming more and more popular in order to drive up their costs, make them have to 'authorise' garages and so on.

There is an anti-bike lobby in EU - but probably not the MEP that's rapporteur on this. I do find it interesting that a lot of these proposals seem very similar to draft proposals from about twelve years ago. (I did a course in EU negotiations and the committee process, and as part of that we used real documents from the IMCO committee on a framework on the maunfacture, sale and use of motorcycles and the control of emissions within the EU.)

Flyin Irishman

Pique wrote: »

The diagnostic ports for 'instant performance readouts' is impractical and will also be shot down. How do you retrofit things like this on older non FI bikes with sfa of an ECU (if any) ?

They wont, they'll simply make it a mandatory requirement for all new bikes, so nobody needs to worry about there being a log of previous riding habits stored in their very own black box......................as long as you dont plan on ever upgrading to a new bike in the future (which will be a tremendous pain in the sack if you ever decide to treat yourself to a travelling holiday in France)

LLU

Paparazzo wrote: »

Quote:
4- OBD. On Board Diagnostics so that easy roadside checks can be made of our emissions and so that constant readouts of engine performance can be obtained. Expensive, complicated and with the threat, rather like a tacho, of identifying past riding style...
Does this mean they can stop you and check what speed you were doing?

cars have had obd ports for years. never heard of them being used for this.

LLU

pixiebean22 wrote: »

3- Automatic headlights on- passing the blame for poor observation on to us.

ah come on now!

copeyhagen

this isnt going to happen. period.

closing of independant garages as one example, come on!!!

goldie fish

pixiebean22 wrote: »

I have posted a link to the EU documentation.

You posted a link to EU documentation which has no occurrence of the word "motorbike" or "motorcycle".
Please show where the EU are making the proposals being discussed? I'm not being pedantic, I just need to know exactly what the deal is, so I can point it out to my MEP.

Syth

carsQhere wrote: »

I believe that's a domestic French proposal - AFAIK, it's not an EU proposal.

For the record the French are also proposing a NCT-thing for bikes aswell. I don't think they have that in France. They do have it in the UK (as an MOT).