Catholic Church claims it is above the law

dvpower · 15-07-2011 02:28PM

Italia wrote: »

If you're Catholic, then you follow ALL the requirements. There isn't a middle way where you can cherry pick. It's an all or nothing.

But if you live in Ireland you can seemingly cherry pick which laws you will obey.

Italia wrote:

Well (and you can save this) here's one person that will NOT be complying with a knee-jerk law.

admiralofthefleet · 15-07-2011 02:28PM

can i ask a member of the catholic cult a question:

if a priest has lied after swearing on the bible and then 'takes' a confession does that mean that the confession he has 'taken' is invalid and you still arent forgiven for your sins under the rules of your cult?

there is no biblical reference for a man to forgive another mans sins, just what the catholic cult makes up

15-07-2011 02:29PM

Italia wrote: »

If you're Catholic, then you follow ALL the requirements. There isn't a middle way where you can cherry pick. It's an all or nothing.
You don't like confession (or other parts), fine. its your choice...but you also give up ALL the rest (whatever it may be - good or bad).

I refer you to my earlier comment looking for an acceptable alternative to "go f*ck yourself".

I call myself Catholic.

I do cherrypick what I do or don't agree with.

You can do nothing to stop me.

I have a human right to do so.

End of argument. Whether you be ultra Catholic or militant Atheist, there is nothing you can do about it.

Haters got a peoblem, then haters gotta deal with it. Their problem, not mine.

vicwatson · 15-07-2011 02:31PM

If you're Catholic, then you follow ALL the requirements. There isn't a middle way where you can cherry pick. It's an all or nothing.
You don't like confession (or other parts), fine. its your choice...but you also give up ALL the rest (whatever it may be - good or bad).

I completley agree with this 100%, I've posted in other threads before stating that also.

In or out, one cannot take what they like and leave the rest, in or out. I'm out !

Unless you're Irish, then you can have pre-martial sex.

And use contraception etc etc etc etc the list is endless, the same people that consistently break the rules of the catholic church are the ones that send their children to confession and communion etc etc but don't go to mass or practice catholicism.:mad:

Wolfe Tone · 15-07-2011 02:31PM

admiralofthefleet wrote: »

can i ask a member of the catholic cult a question:

if a priest has lied after swearing on the bible and then 'takes' a confession does that mean that the confession he has 'taken' is invalid and you still arent forgiven for your sins under the rules of your cult?

there is no biblical reference for a man to forgive another mans sins, just what the catholic cult makes up

You need to look up what catholics believe confession entails, its not some man forgiving sins.

Knasher · 15-07-2011 02:33PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I call myself Catholic.

I do cherrypick what I do or don't agree with.

Just curious though (and not trying to make a point in any way, if I were still a catholic I would probably take the same stance as you), but would you not consider yourself a christian instead of a catholic (catholics being christians who adhere to the catholic church).

Dyr · 15-07-2011 02:34PM

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

You need to look up what catholics believe confession entails, its not some man forgiving sins.

Has it anything to do with cannibalism?

admiralofthefleet · 15-07-2011 02:35PM

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

You need to look up what catholics believe confession entails, its not some man forgiving sins.

who is it then? its just some bloke sitting inside a bloke who 'takes' it.

Min · 15-07-2011 02:38PM

dvpower wrote: »

The issue of non reporting was a major issue in the report. It isn't about the confessional per se - it is about mandatory reporting in general, and the report shows that the church weren't even able to properly report when they learned of abuse not coming form the confessional (where there was nothing stopping them).

But even that cannot be generalised, the reports has different cases,I'll go through them -
one case says the victim didn't report it to either the Gardai or church, another case no report was made by the church to either the gardai or HSE.
The third case was dealt with properly with the gardai immediately contacted,
the next not reported and church guidelines ignored,
the next a credible report but the person involved refused to talk to the gardai or the church -says the diocese investigated as well as it could, it was reported to the Gardai.
The next is a priest who the victim didn't know, says Msg Callaghan should have done more to try and find who it was was.
In the next case it says the Msg was good to the complainant both personally and financially but the priest inolved was dead and he should still have told the gardai even though he was dead.
Next was delayed reporting to the gardai and the bishop and the Msg lacked basic information in their report.
Next case the Gardai were contacted but not the church.
Next case was no actual allegations but concerns raised.
Next case no procedures in place, priest dead for 14 years.
Next case, no allegations of sexual abuse but concerns.
Next case the commission says in it's view it was dealt with appropriately.

So it is varied, mandatory reporting, does this mean the person who says he was abused in the report but refused to tell the Gardai who it was should be jailed?

Amhran Nua · 15-07-2011 02:39PM

bnt wrote: »

Confessional remains private. Crimes confessed there are not reported. Justice is not served.
Confessional no longer private. Crimes confessed there are reported. People stop confessing to crimes in confessionals. Justice is not served.

It removes the legal out that lets priests say they didn't take action because they heard it in confession.

Seize all church properties not directly related to delivering services, and that means all abbeys and residential grounds as well. Apply a 40% tax on all donations collected within the republic of Ireland. Mandate that no person belonging to or asssociated with one of these organisations can legally have unsupervised access to a child.

I mean for pity's sake, these bastards have been raping children and covering it up since forever. They are probably doing it right this very minute.

Enough, shut em down, get em out.

No civilised society could do any less.

starlit · 15-07-2011 02:39PM

The Catholic Church has always thought they are above the law so do the Gardai! Its the Government, State, Taoiseach, the people of Ireland (votes) and the Constitution as well as the President of Ireland are the people who make the laws in this country so anyone trying to go above it whether they in the law system or religious system are just being self righteous and self centred!
The Gardai are their to implement it and enforce it in society and put it in affect to be carried out but they seem to think they are above that and do what they like which isn't right! They are abusing the law system, the difference with barristers and solicitors they are there to bring people to justice and mercy not to enforce law oneself!

Wolfe Tone · 15-07-2011 02:40PM

Amhran Nua wrote: »

It removes the legal out that lets priests say they didn't take action because they heard it in confession.

Seize all church properties not directly related to delivering services, and that means all abbeys and residential grounds as well. Apply a 40% tax on all donations collected within the republic of Ireland. Mandate that no person belonging to or asssociated with one of these organisations can legally have unsupervised access to a child.

I mean for pity's sake, these bastards have been raping children and covering it up since forever. They are probably doing it right this very minute.

Enough, shut em down, get em out.

No civilised society could do any less.

What a load of unrealistic sh!te, if that is your parties proposals thats pathetic.

15-07-2011 02:42PM

Min wrote: »

But even that cannot be generalised, the reports has different cases,I'll go through them -
...

So you're against a law which makes it mandatory to pass on details of suspected child sexual abuse to authorities?

Seachmall · 15-07-2011 02:42PM

Min wrote: »

So it is varied, mandatory reporting, does this mean the person who says he was abused in the report but refused to tell the Gardai who it was should be jailed?

We'll have to wait for the wording of the law, but highly unlikely.

You knew this of course.

Killer Pigeon · 15-07-2011 02:42PM

So, if the State brings in new laws that will oblige priests to testify to serious crimes confessed to them in a confessional and the RCC refuses to give exemptions to the breaking of the sacramental seal does this mean we could potentially justify waterboarding pedophile priests?

It would be symbolic too because waterboarding can be traced back to the RCC's Inquisition during the Middle Ages.

admiralofthefleet · 15-07-2011 02:43PM

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

What a load of unrealistic sh!te, if that is your parties proposals thats pathetic.

they were doing it as recent as 2009. who knows what they are still covering up

Amhran Nua · 15-07-2011 02:44PM

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

What a load of unrealistic sh!te, if that is your parties proposals thats pathetic.

I didn't ask you for your opinion, shinner, preaching piety out one side of your mouth while openly supporting criminals out the other.

suicide_circus · 15-07-2011 02:45PM

Ok, go ahead and pass your publicity stunt law if it makes you feel better, it will save nobody and bring nobody to justice. Eternal redemption for some, miniature Irish flags for others. Stick THAT in your thurible and wave it round your tabernacle!

Wolfe Tone · 15-07-2011 02:45PM

admiralofthefleet wrote: »

they were doing it as recent as 2009. who knows what they are still covering up

I was talking about his proposals to seize assets/tax.

dvpower · 15-07-2011 02:45PM

Min wrote: »

So it is varied, mandatory reporting, does this mean the person who says he was abused in the report but refused to tell the Gardai who it was should be jailed?

Mandatory reporting where it has been introduced will specify the classes of people who are subject to it (e.g. clergy, medics, teachers etc), so, no, the victim would not be subject to it.

Wolfe Tone · 15-07-2011 02:46PM

Amhran Nua wrote: »

I didn't ask you for your opinion, shinner, preaching piety out one side of your mouth while openly supporting criminals out the other.

Ha, good man yourself. Is the party set up and running yet?

Might wan to get realistic things, rather than proposing things such as the above which you cannot deliver.

Amhran Nua · 15-07-2011 02:47PM

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Ha, good man yourself. Is the party set up and running yet?

Why, does that make you defending child molesters more or less reasonable?

Wolfe Tone · 15-07-2011 02:48PM

Amhran Nua wrote: »

Why, does that make you defending child molestors more or less reasonable?

Point out where I defended child molesters.

Seachmall · 15-07-2011 02:48PM

suicide_circus wrote: »

Ok, go ahead and pass your publicity stunt law if it makes you feel better, it will save nobody and bring nobody to justice. Eternal redemption for some, miniature Irish flags for others. Stick THAT in your thurible and wave it round your tabernacle!

There are people out there who were aware of child abuse and who failed to report it. We know these people did it. We can't prosecute these people because we didn't have this law. We are correcting this situation by bringing in the law.

It's not a publicity stunt law, and it will prevent such cases from occurring again.

KeithAFC · 15-07-2011 02:48PM

Seachmall wrote: »

The Priest most likely won't lie after swearing on the bible.

Of course they will lie. They are experts at it. The pope is the best in the world at it. The pope has covered up child abuse and lied about it. Fuck the pope.

They had no problem helping Nazis escape after WW2. Never underestimate the power of Rome.

Amhran Nua · 15-07-2011 02:49PM

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

Point out where I defended child molesters.

There is no question at this stage that the church as an institution has been covering up child abuse. Are you or are you not defending the church?

15-07-2011 02:50PM

suicide_circus wrote: »

Ok, go ahead and pass your publicity stunt law if it makes you feel better, it will save nobody and bring nobody to justice. Eternal redemption for some, miniature Irish flags for others. Stick THAT in your thurible and wave it round your tabernacle!

Can you answer this post? Yes or no will suffice

28064212 wrote: »

You think a law making it mandatory to pass on details of suspected child sexual abuse to authorities is not a good idea?

Killer Pigeon · 15-07-2011 02:50PM

Wolfe Tone wrote: »

What a load of unrealistic sh!te, if that is your parties proposals thats pathetic.

I wouldn't be surprised if Amhran Nua was correct Wolfe Tone. Nothing the RCC does anymore would surprise me.

Wolfe Tone · 15-07-2011 02:51PM

Killer Pigeon wrote: »

I wouldn't be surprised if Amhran Nua was correct Wolfe Tone. Nothing the RCC does anymore would surprise me.

His proposals for seizing assets/taxing are indeed highly unrealistic and undeliverable.

As for the church, I wouldn't be too surprised either,its a shame this sullies the excellent work many genuine priests do in communities across the country.

suicide_circus · 15-07-2011 02:51PM

28064212 wrote: »

Can you answer this post? Yes or no will suffice

Yes or no

Catholic Church claims it is above the law

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