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Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread

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    #572
    LeeroyJones
    Registered Users Posts: 1,954 ✭✭✭LeeroyJones


    hsbc wrote: »
    Marcus Horan?????:confused::eek:

    Given how little options we have there, I still think there is an argument to go the experienced route for backup to Healy - which of course Horan offers.

    Court, I think, is on the plane so long as he can maintain fitness. It's whether or not he covers tight or loose. If he covers tight, then Horan comes too, or Wilkinson. If he covers loose, then Buckley comes..... or Hayes!


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    #573
    theKramer
    Registered Users Posts: 625 ✭✭✭theKramer


    LeeroyJones wrote: »
    If he covers loose, then Buckley comes..... or Hayes!
    It would have to be Hayes if it came down to that. Buckley hasn't played a game since March, I think.....


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    #574
    GerM
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,592 ✭✭✭GerM


    WeeBushy wrote: »
    19 backs picked, 5 of which are SHs so assuming 3 of those go that means that of the rest only 3 will be cut, depending on his backs/fowards split.

    2 of Murphy, Jones, Kearney and Duffy will go. Depending on fitness, but my guess is Kearney and Jones.

    The last place will be a shoot out between Wallace, Trimble and McFadden imo. However Wallace is assured to go so Trimble vs. McFadden. I'd go with McFadden (and would pick Trimble and leave Wallace but that's never going to happen).

    I think the SHs are going to be Reddan, Murray and O'Leary.

    Nicely broken down. I reckon two scrum halves along with Murphy, Duffy and McFadden will be left at home.

    That would leave 8 forwards being cut. Depends on the make up of the squad (17/13 or 16/14) but I think McCarthy, Wilkinson, Varley, MOD, McLaughlin, Horan, Buckley and Leamy or Jennings (most likely Jennings) will be cut.


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    #575
    GerM
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,592 ✭✭✭GerM


    LeeroyJones wrote: »
    Given how little options we have there, I still think there is an argument to go the experienced route for backup to Healy - which of course Horan offers.

    Court, I think, is on the plane so long as he can maintain fitness. It's whether or not he covers tight or loose. If he covers tight, then Horan comes too, or Wilkinson. If he covers loose, then Buckley comes..... or Hayes!

    Horan is there for show I think. Court is a loosehead that has played tighthead. Not the other way around. His appearances at 3 are very few and far between these days. Taking 3 players that are primarily looseheads would be very wasteful. I think Court, Healy, Hayes and Ross will travel as props. If there's another to travel, it should be a tighthead and not a loose.


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    #576
    jacothelad
    Registered Users Posts: 5,922 ✭✭✭jacothelad


    hsbc wrote: »
    Marcus Horan?????:confused::eek:
    LeeroyJones wrote: »
    Given how little options we have there, I still think there is an argument to go the experienced route for backup to Healy - which of course Horan offers.

    Court, I think, is on the plane so long as he can maintain fitness. It's whether or not he covers tight or loose. If he covers tight, then Horan comes too, or Wilkinson. If he covers loose, then Buckley comes..... or Hayes!

    Horan being named is totally daft. McAllister and Wilkinson for example are far better players now.


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    #577
    LeeroyJones
    Registered Users Posts: 1,954 ✭✭✭LeeroyJones


    GerM wrote: »
    Horan is there for show I think. Court is a loosehead that has played tighthead. Not the other way around. His appearances at 3 are very few and far between these days. Taking 3 players that are primarily looseheads would be very wasteful. I think Court, Healy, Hayes and Ross will travel as props. If there's another to travel, it should be a tighthead and not a loose.
    jacothelad wrote:
    Horan being named is totally daft. McAllister and Wilkinson for example are far better players now.

    I don't necessarily disagree, I'm just saying why I think Horan has been selected on the great squad.
    Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't there still only one slot available for a prop on the bench ie only a 22 match day squad? In this case, I'd be surprised if Court doesn't sub in every (high-profile) fixture. The question is, who acts as back up to the matchday squad? - none of the aforementioned fill me with confidence!


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    #578
    Cpt_Blackbeard
    Registered Users Posts: 2,456 ✭✭✭Cpt_Blackbeard


    jacothelad wrote: »
    Horan being named is totally daft. McAllister and Wilkinson for example are far better players now.

    Horan has been playing pretty well recently and I don't recall him ever being destroyed at scrum-time. Prop is probably the only position where I don't feel that we can try relatively untested players. He will be unpopular after his antics against Leinster though.

    I'm delighted to see Murray in the squad. There were rumblings on MFs that he wasn't registered for the squad of 50.


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    #579
    theboss80
    Registered Users Posts: 1,838 ✭✭✭theboss80


    Geordan Murphy included , is Kidney possibly of the thinking Kearney wont be ready? And if so this is hardly the answer is it? Whats his form been like this season?


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    #580
    Riskymove
    Registered Users Posts: 10,887 ✭✭✭✭Riskymove


    so, I know there are some who cover other positions but basically its:

    FBGavin Duffy (Galwegians/Connacht)
    Robert Kearney (UCD/Leinster)
    Felix Jones (Shannon/Munster)
    Geordan Murphy (Leicester)

    Wing
    Tommy Bowe (Ospreys)
    Keith Earls (Thomond/Munster) (or centre)
    Luke Fitzgerald (Blackrock College/Leinster) (or FB)
    Andrew Trimble (Ballymena/Ulster)

    CentreGordon D'Arcy (Lansdowne/Leinster)
    Fergus McFadden (Old Belvedere/Leinster)
    Brian O'Driscoll (UCD/Leinster)
    Paddy Wallace (Ballymena/Ulster) (3rd OH also)

    OHRonan O'Gara (Cork Constitution/Munster)
    Jonathan Sexton (St.Mary’s College/Leinster)

    SH
    Isaac Boss (Terenure College/Leinster)
    Conor Murray (Cork Constitution/Munster)
    Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster)
    Tomas O'Leary (Dolphin/Munster)
    Peter Stringer (Shannon/Munster)

    Props
    Tony Buckley (Sale Sharks)
    Tom Court (Malone/Ulster)
    John Hayes (Bruff/Munster)
    Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster)
    Marcus Horan (Shannon/Munster)
    Michael Ross (Clontarf/Leinster)
    Brett Wilkinson (Galwegians/Connacht)

    Hooker
    Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster)
    Sean Cronin (Leinster)
    Jerry Flannery (Shannon/Munster)
    Damien Varley (Garryown/Munster)

    Lock
    Leo Cullen (Blackrock College/Leinster)
    Donncha O'Callaghan (Cork Constitution/Munster)
    Paul O'Connell (Young Munster/Munster)
    Mick O'Driscoll (Cork Constitution/Munster)
    Mike McCarthy (Buccaneers/Connacht)
    Donnacha Ryan (Shannon/Munster) (also play back row)

    BackrowS
    tephen Ferris (Dungannon/Ulster)
    Jamie Heaslip (Naas/Leinster)
    Shane Jennings (St.Mary’s College/Leinster)
    Denis Leamy (Cork Constitution/Munster)
    Kevin McLaughlin (St. Mary’s College/Leinster)
    Sean O'Brien (Clontarf/Leinster)
    David Wallace (Garryowen/Munster)

    There are a number who have to prove fitness

    only the two OH still so Wallace will obviously be there as cover

    2 SHs to go


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    #581
    Riskymove
    Registered Users Posts: 10,887 ✭✭✭✭Riskymove


    theboss80 wrote: »
    Geordan Murphy included , is Kidney possibly of the thinking Kearney wont be ready? And if so this is hardly the answer is it? Whats his form been like this season?

    ironically Murphy missed most of the season through injury as well


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    #582
    Riskymove
    Registered Users Posts: 10,887 ✭✭✭✭Riskymove


    WeeBushy wrote: »
    So basically this squad announcement is useless then..

    do you think that will avoid the hysteria?


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    #583
    LeeroyJones
    Registered Users Posts: 1,954 ✭✭✭LeeroyJones


    In an ideal world where all fullbacks are fit and on form, Kearney and Murphy would be my selected 15s everytime. So long as that combo is still a possibility I'm happy for them both to be selected.


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    #584
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    Meh it's too big a squad to gleam any insight really.

    Also Conor Murray plays for Garryowen, not Con. Cork won't steal him away from us! ;)


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    #585
    Quint2010
    Registered Users Posts: 5,178 ✭✭✭Quint2010


    WeeBushy wrote: »
    19 backs picked, 5 of which are SHs so assuming 3 of those go that means that of the rest only 3 will be cut, depending on his backs/fowards split.

    2 of Murphy, Jones, Kearney and Duffy will go. Depending on fitness, but my guess is Kearney and Jones.

    The last place will be a shoot out between Wallace, Trimble and McFadden imo. However Wallace is assured to go so Trimble vs. McFadden. I'd go with McFadden (and would pick Trimble and leave Wallace but that's never going to happen).

    I think the SHs are going to be Reddan, Murray and O'Leary.

    Why is Wallace assured to go? I think he has had a poor season and he is simply too small for the physicality of international rugby. When was the last time he did anything of note in a green jersey apart from butcher a try against Wales this year and brainlessly almost costing us a grand slam 2 years ago? For OH we have JS, and ROG on the bench as cover (or vice versa). So we only need a sub who can cover the outside backs position-why have Wallace there solely for that? Not good enough when you have players liked McFadden, Jones, Trimble, Horgan all playing much better rugby. If Wallace is on the plane it will be a serious indictment of Kidney IMHO.


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    #586
    roycon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 532 ✭✭✭roycon


    would have liked to have seen jamie hagan there


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    #587
    Riskymove
    Registered Users Posts: 10,887 ✭✭✭✭Riskymove


    Quint2010 wrote: »
    Why is Wallace assured to go?

    because he can cover OH and centre so you save a spot in the squad


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    #588
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    No real shocks there really.

    Hagan and Toner might have deserved more recognition, but neither would be going to the world cup anyway.


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    #589
    wixfjord
    Site Banned Posts: 5,346 ✭✭✭wixfjord


    Would have been interesting to see if Horgan would have been picked for the WC anyway, but it takes a bit of pressure off Kidney now.

    Good for Leinster though.


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    #590
    durkadurka
    Registered Users Posts: 6,207 ✭✭✭durkadurka


    unless Bowe got injured I'd say there was never much chance of shaggy going


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    #591
    totallegend
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,234 ✭✭✭totallegend


    wixfjord wrote: »
    Would have been interesting to see if Horgan would have been picked for the WC anyway, but it takes a bit of pressure off Kidney now.

    Good for Leinster though.

    I'm a bit in the dark on the seriousness of Horgan's injury/surgery - is he definitely ruled out of the World Cup? Or is he just not being considered for this training camp?

    As durkadurka says, he is/was a long-shot to travel anyway.


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    #592
    GerM
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,592 ✭✭✭GerM


    totallegend wrote: »
    I'm a bit in the dark on the seriousness of Horgan's injury/surgery - is he definitely ruled out of the World Cup? Or is he just not being considered for this training camp?

    Release said none of the injured players will be available for the Guinness summer series. If Horgan cannot play in any of the warm up games, I would think there's zero chance of him being in consideration now. Awful shame because lets be honest, if we had to pick the two most on form Irish wingers of the past couple of months, Earls and Horgan would be our starting wingers. He probably wouldn't have been selected but to not even have the opportunity must be gutting for the big man. That's essentially the end of his international career.


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    #593
    WeeBushy
    Registered Users Posts: 3,572 ✭✭✭WeeBushy


    Quint2010 wrote: »
    Why is Wallace assured to go? I think he has had a poor season and he is simply too small for the physicality of international rugby. When was the last time he did anything of note in a green jersey apart from butcher a try against Wales this year and brainlessly almost costing us a grand slam 2 years ago? For OH we have JS, and ROG on the bench as cover (or vice versa). So we only need a sub who can cover the outside backs position-why have Wallace there solely for that? Not good enough when you have players liked McFadden, Jones, Trimble, Horgan all playing much better rugby. If Wallace is on the plane it will be a serious indictment of Kidney IMHO.

    Oh I agree with everything you say. But Kidney will pick him, like he always has.
    Riskymove wrote: »
    because he can cover OH and centre so you save a spot in the squad

    This is such a myth imo, he doesn't cover 10. Maybe just about at magners league level but he doesn't cut it at all as a 3rd choice international 10.


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    #594
    MungBean
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,915 ✭✭✭MungBean


    WeeBushy wrote: »
    This is such a myth imo, he doesn't cover 10. Maybe just about at magners league level but he doesn't cut it at all as a 3rd choice international 10.

    In the unlikely event that ROG and Sexton get injured. Who would cover the 10 spot ? I'm not talkin 10 minutes cover at the end of a match. If both first choice fly halfs were ruled out of a game who would Ireland start at 10 ? I always assumed it would be wallace but if he doesnt go what choice is left ?


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    #595
    Riskymove
    Registered Users Posts: 10,887 ✭✭✭✭Riskymove


    WeeBushy wrote: »
    This is such a myth imo, he doesn't cover 10. Maybe just about at magners league level but he doesn't cut it at all as a 3rd choice international 10.

    well that is a different story but he is the 3rd OH in the team....he is an emergency OH

    but he does free up a spot for a more strategic pick for the squad than a 3rd OH that wont see any action


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    #596
    Riskymove
    Registered Users Posts: 10,887 ✭✭✭✭Riskymove


    Skunkle wrote: »
    In the unlikely event that ROG and Sexton get injured. Who would cover the 10 spot ?

    they would send out a replacement

    keatly or humphries I suppose


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    #597
    WeeBushy
    Registered Users Posts: 3,572 ✭✭✭WeeBushy


    Skunkle wrote: »
    In the unlikely event that ROG and Sexton get injured. Who would cover the 10 spot ? I'm not talkin 10 minutes cover at the end of a match. If both first choice fly halfs were ruled out of a game who would Ireland start at 10 ? I always assumed it would be wallace but if he doesnt go what choice is left ?

    If we were left with having to start Wallace we'd be fucked anyway. He is a very bad international 10.


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    #598
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Riskymove wrote: »
    they would send out a replacement

    keatly or humphries I suppose

    Neither have nearly the experience in the system that Wallace has.

    Wallace is a class act and was a big part of our GS team while D'Arcy was out. Well worth his place in the squad. Not a great 10, but I highly doubt he'll be needed there.


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    #599
    WeeBushy
    Registered Users Posts: 3,572 ✭✭✭WeeBushy


    Riskymove wrote: »
    well that is a different story but he is the 3rd OH in the team....he is an emergency OH

    but he does free up a spot for a more strategic pick for the squad than a 3rd OH that wont see any action

    I just wouldn't pick a 3 OH. There is no 3rd choice OH that warrants being brought so I would take the slightly risky move of not having a 3rd OH, freeing up a space for a versatile player who would push for a starting pace like McFadden.


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    #600
    GerM
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,592 ✭✭✭GerM


    Skunkle wrote: »
    In the unlikely event that ROG and Sexton get injured. Who would cover the 10 spot ? I'm not talkin 10 minutes cover at the end of a match. If both first choice fly halfs were ruled out of a game who would Ireland start at 10 ? I always assumed it would be wallace but if he doesnt go what choice is left ?

    You call up Keatley or Humphreys because you simply cannot go into an important WC match with Wallace at 10. If it was for the Russia or USA match, I'd just stick one of our more level headed backs in at 10. Lets be honest, we'll have no issues against either of them. McFadden travels and takes the kicks from 13 and BOD steps in at 10 with Kearney or whoever stepping in at first receiver a fair bit to use a kicking game.


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    #601
    durkadurka
    Registered Users Posts: 6,207 ✭✭✭durkadurka


    If ROG and Sexton get injured we can forget about it.


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