Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread

Podge_irl

I'm not really sure it counts as a snub considering the guy has no international experience, no Heineken experience and has only played 11 games all season.

On top of that any gametime he might get in the warm-up games will be limited as Kearney will have to be brought back to match-fitness.

Ultimately a choice between Jones and Kearney at the moment is no real choice. If Kearney comes back anywhere near top form then he's gonna be rightly placed well ahead of Jones.

tolosenc

I'd prefer iHumph at 10 to Wallace.

I wouldn't go near Hayes for the World Cup spot, but then again, is he worse than Buckley? Is Jamie Hagan worth a shot?

My man love for Dan Tuohy means he gets in ahead of Ryan or Cullen.

If Jenno is fit, he has to be in the starting XV. We all know he's unlikely to even travel, though. 2 of Wallace, Jennings, Ferris and Leamy will go.

castie

Think MOD deserves the lock position instead of Ryan

ormond lad

castie wrote: »

Think MOD deserves the lock position instead of Ryan

Ryan has been super the last few weeks and also covers 6 which Micko does not. On form Donncha deserves the spot. Kmc L would also be ahead of MOD

WeeBushy

I would go with pretty much the same squad as Thomond's with only a couple of changes:

FORWARDS (16)

Props: Healy, Court, Ross, Hayes

Hookers: Best, Cronin, Flannery/Varley

Locks: POC, DOC, Cullen, McLaughlin (2nd row/backrow cover)

Flankers: SOB, Wallace, Ferris, Jennings

8s: Heaslip


BACKS (14)

SHs: Reddan, Murray, TOL (in that order as well)

OHs: Sexton, ROG

Centres: D'Arcy, BOD, McFadden

Wing/FB: Earls, Bowe, Trimble, Horgan, Fitzgerald, Kearney

Props - Hayes is our 4th best prop, Buckley has fallen of the radar and Hagan is unproven. I would like to see Hagan given a shot in the warm ups but even that might not be enough as Hayes has a wealth of experience over him which Kidndey would prefer going into the WC I think.

Second Row - I like the 2nd row/back row back up option and its a shoot out between Ryan and McLaughlin. McLaughlin is a better player imo, and Kidney certainly rates him as he gave him his debut in the 6N last year, he would have played in the summer tour and the AIs were it not for injury. V. good line out option as well.

Back row - Jennings for me, but it'll be close between himself, Leamy and Muldoon and possibly Coughlan for the last spot I'd say. Providing Ferris is fit, of course. Kidney seems to favour the big ball carying, bone crushing flanker, so Jennings would be a perfect counterweight, and the influence he can have on a game is huge, he really frees up other players to shine.

Scrum Half - Don't think I'd bring TOL myself, but Kidney rates him, and taking Boss leaves Leinster with no senior scrummies so I'm going with TOL

Out Half - Might be a bit of risk only having Sexton & ROG going as OH cover, but Wallace (good centre but a very poor OH imo) and Humphreys are the only other options, and neither are good enough to leave out any of the other backs.

Centre - McFadden is a better centre than Wallace full stop, and should to go for his versatility, and place kicking as well.

Full back - With 4 warm up matches and maybe a spell down south, Kearney will be fit and will travel. Jones is the only one putting pressure on that position and with minimal international experience I don't think Kidney will pick him as there is a good chance he would be our first choice FB with no experience. He would be my bolter bet, however, and I wouldn't be upset seeing him going.

Right. That's enough from me.

Jones has given Kidney food for thought, if Kearney's not setting the world alight by the end of the warm ups, Jones will travel, simply because we need a dedicated full back, and he's the only one (bar Duffy who could, but wont). Earls will play FB in some of the other games too imo, so it's not completely essential that we have 2 FBs.

Murray and Ryan also putting hands up, Ryan still doesn't cut it for me though. I really think he's doing well at the moment, but that we're unlikely to see "the next level" from him. He's been hurt by being the spare part at Munster.

Guys playing themselves out of contention as the season ended

P.Wallace (will be happy to forget the season)
Leamy (played at 8 for a lot of the year even though he's a fantastic 6 when he wants to be!, discipline problems won't go away either)
Varley (though would be 3rd choice at best anyway)
McLaughlin (through no fault of his own, SOB being the best playing 6 in the country, and Jennings being amongst the best 7s has mean that McLaughlin is fighting a losing battle to get involved) - Ryan finishing the season strong, and McLaughlin only getting 1/2 games at second row hurt his chances too.
Tuohy (played himself out of the WC in the last few months imo. Devastated for him, because when he's on top form, he's exactly what we need in the 2nd row)
Fitzgerald (Getting there, still as defensively sound as ever, but to win a world cup we're going to need to score too. Needs to get back to his game, and quickly.)

ormond lad

ormond lad wrote: »

Ryan has been super the last few weeks and also covers 6 which Micko does not. On form Donncha deserves the spot. Kmc L would also be ahead of MOD

As a counterweight, MOD has played 6 plenty of times, is coming off one of his best seasons in recent years and would be well able to lead a pack in the absence of POC or Best.

We're going to need to change the team around between games, it's suicide to start the same XV each game, and leaders are important. We can't have lads like Leamy asking for penalties to be moved, or Sexton shouting at referees, there needs to be some oul lads.

GerM

I can't see MOD being involved at all. I think Kidney decided some time ago that he wants a blindside/lock and it seems he doesn't see MOD being that guy. MOD hasn't played 6 for some time and at 33 in the WC, isn't mobile enough to be an option there. The fact that he has been omitted entirely from the Munster squads for the last couple of games suggests that his number is up.

I think there's quite a good chance that both Kearney and Jones will travel. 15 is quite a specialist position and it would be playing with fire to go with only one recognised full back to the other side of the world. Things have gone very quiet around Geordan Murphy. I don't think he'll travel given his lack of game time and his age.

Injuries will play a part in the selections. I think Buckley will miss out at this point. He has just had shoulder surgery and will be out for 7 weeks. That will be detrimental to his fitness and he'll struggle to make much of an impact at all in the warm up games as a result I think. Jennings will also need something special to force DK's hand. His broken arm is going to rob him of a lot of sharpness and he won't have been able to do any upper body work for a significant amount of time when the warm up games draw near assuming he'll be able to take part in them at all.

After benching for several games, McFadden needed to put down a marker over the weekend and failed to do so. He should travel ahead of Wallace but I'm not sure he will and I can't see DK taking him ahead of any of the other backs. If he goes, his goal kicking might have swung it in his favour, I think.

siltirocker

PhatPiggins wrote: »

Murray definetely is a bolter for the WC. Ryan could have done with starting more games in the second row but has shown what he can do when given the chance, fair play. He really should move to another team though, he's going to get plenty of game time at 6 for Munster where he's useful but if he really wants to establish himself as an international its in the second row. It's a pity moving abroad is a death sentance for Irish internationals because there's no room for him in any team in Ireland bar Connacht (no offense Connacht).

That said he does seem to be a Kidney favourite so he could still be in the WC mix.

He would not start for Connacht and would have a hard time getting on the bench. He is in a position where Connacht are actually strong as sh1t.


In the general sense, i think this Jones talk is ludicrous. Over hyping after 2 good games IMO. He was quite average in many of games i've seen of him this season and even then people were mooting him for the WC. Like Murray it seems some think they deserve a WC just because they're involved and not on merit. Although i reckon both are good players.

profitius

siltirocker wrote: »

He would not start for Connacht and would have a hard time getting on the bench. He is in a position where Connacht are actually strong as sh1t.

In the general sense, i think this Jones talk is ludicrous. Over hyping after 2 good games IMO. He was quite average in many of games i've seen of him this season and even then people were mooting him for the WC. Like Murray it seems some think they deserve a WC just because they're involved and not on merit. Although i reckon both are good players.

Jones has only recently come back from a long term injury though. In that time he's made a massive difference to Munster adding another dimension. He's a better 15 in attack and defense than Warwick and Warwick is also a useful 15.

CatFromHue

there has been a lot of hype about felix jones since his churchill cup performance a while back.

if kearney, murphy and/or duffy weren't injured/off form there wouldnt be any talk of him for ireland. at the moment they arent playing and he is, so all the attention will naturally fall on him.

its been awhile since i saw an irish full back tackle like he did on the weekend. he also had some nice tackles against harlequins.

rockman15

MOD is not an international rugby player. Fact. End of. Dont want to hear reasons why he is great for Munster or how he led the team agains the AB's etc etc etc. he is not up to the standard of a WC.

Murray wont be going to the WC as having read a reliable previous post he wasnt asked to sign the visa/insurance/gear documentation.

The Bull does shouldnt go but I feel Kidney will still agonise over the selection. He'd be more use to Munster with MOD in Limerick guiding young lads around a field in the ML. Actually as regards the proping, Healy and Ross will obviously go, it comes down to who fills the reserve slots: Horan, Hayes, Court. He'll only bring 4. My money is on Horan and Court.

Jennings injured and most likely wont be up to par with McLoughlin. Its between the two of them. Dont see Leamy at the races tbh. With SOB and wallace capable of covering 8 in the event Heaslip is injured (touches wood) it leaves McLoughlin on the bench. If Ferris doesnt recover Leamy will travel strictly as a reserve I'd be suprised to see him get game time in that situation.

Cannot see McFadden being left behind. Id have in any side ahead of P. Wallace. He does everything better than Wallace and can kick reliably.

irishbucsfan

rockman15 wrote: »

He does everything better than Wallace and can kick reliably.

Not true at all really.

rockman15

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Not true at all really.

I challenge you to name me one thing, bar receiving head injuries, that McFadden does not beat Paddy Wallace at.:)

CatFromHue

rockman15 wrote: »

I challenge you to name me one thing, bar receiving head injuries, that McFadden does not beat Paddy Wallace at.:)

passing

rockman15

CatFromHue wrote: »

passing

His distribution has been at least on par with that of wallace this season. The myth of him having poor distribution has been largely put to bed this season. The leinster method of play dictates a higher than average carry count for your 12. Perhaps why this seems to be people throw that argument out.

sock puppet

rockman15 wrote: »

I challenge you to name me one thing, bar receiving head injuries, that McFadden does not beat Paddy Wallace at.:)

Well he's actually played 10 on occasion for a start...

Podge_irl

Wallace is a better distributing 12 then McFadden and a better option at 10. The real question is whether that's enough to get him ahead.

Ireland don't utilise a distributing 12. Even when Wallace has played he's been played trucking ball up the congested channels, which is why he got so many head injuries. Ireland seem to play as if D'Arcy is there even when it's Wallace - with that in mind McFadden is clearly the better option at 12.

Wallace is most definitely the better 10. However, if Ireland are forced to use their 3rd choice 10 then they are in serious trouble anyway. While better then McFadden, Wallace is not good enough to be getting anywhere in a world cup. If we have to play Wallace at 10 we're goosed anyway.

With both those things in mind, McFadden is the better choice. However, Kidney seems inclined to pick Wallace and pick him at 22 which is a monstrously poor use of resources.

irishbucsfan

rockman15 wrote: »

His distribution has been at least on par with that of wallace this season. The myth of him having poor distribution has been largely put to bed this season. The leinster method of play dictates a higher than average carry count for your 12. Perhaps why this seems to be people throw that argument out.

Really? Which top class game did McFadden play twelve and show off his distribution this season? I seem to remember him playing his best rugby on the wing.

Paddy Wallace is a better distributor than any other centre in the country. He is also hugely experienced and will very comfortably be able to slot into the Les Kiss defensive system given that he started at 12 during our Grand Slam season. Not to mention the fact that Wallace is an impressive kicker out of hand, which isn't something we've seen much of from McFadden.

McFadden hasn't shown off anything at 12 in his 0 games there for Ireland, so I really don't know where you're coming from. If McFadden comes to the World Cup it'll be as cover for the wing.

BTL

Does the same rule about squad replacements for injury apply as at the last world cup? (ie, if a player is injured he can be permanently replaced on the squad with someone else)

If so, that would seem to destroy the case for bringing Paddy Wallace along to cover out-half, since if one of the proper 10's were injured, then Wallace could replace them in the squad without counting towards the original 30. (although if you want a replacement 10, then I'd rate Humphreys and Keatley ahead of Wallace).

If D'Arcy stays fit during the summer, I can't see the need to bring Wallace along as a centre either. In the event of injury, bring him into the squad, but otherwise Earls and McFadden can both cover centre, as can Bowe at a push, and McFadden is a more flexible replacement bench option.

In the nightmare scenario where one out-half is replaced and his replacement injured, I'd rather have McFadden able to come on to take place kicks and BOD or TOL act as 10 on the field for the sake of the last 10 minutes or so of the game.

GerM

Wallace's distribution is still miles ahead of McFadden's. Whilst McFadden has improved his handling, it's a rare enough occurrence to see him actually pass the ball more than a few yards. More often than not, he seeks to take the ball up himself. His strength, for me, was always in getting on the carriers shoulder and collecting the pass rather than being the one who gives it. I suppose it stems from the fact that he's originally a 13 by trade. The game away to Cardiff a year ago summed it up for me. Great break from McFadden after collecting an offload. One on one with a defender with Conway steaming up on the outside but took contact rather than even attempting the pass. It's not a massive criticism of McFadden, many of our centres cannot pass brilliantly. BOD is still weak off his left. The pass Wallace threw for BOD's try in Oz a couple of years ago (the IRB try of the year) was something that none of our centres would nail as sweetly. Darce isn't too bad a passer but rarely does so these days.

With all that said, I think there's still a stronger case for McFadden to travel. His defence has come along massively and he's much more powerful in contact and quicker than Wallace. His goalkicking is also better in my opinion. It's a tight call, but due to his versatility, I'd plump for McFadden. Don't think DK will see it that way though.

totallegend

GerM wrote: »

Wallace's distribution is still miles ahead of McFadden's. Whilst McFadden has improved his handling, it's a rare enough occurrence to see him actually pass the ball more than a few yards. More often than not, he seeks to take the ball up himself. His strength, for me, was always in getting on the carriers shoulder and collecting the pass rather than being the one who gives it. I suppose it stems from the fact that he's originally a 13 by trade. The game away to Cardiff a year ago summed it up for me. Great break from McFadden after collecting an offload. One on one with a defender with Conway steaming up on the outside but took contact rather than even attempting the pass. It's not a massive criticism of McFadden, many of our centres cannot pass brilliantly. BOD is still weak off his left. The pass Wallace threw for BOD's try in Oz a couple of years ago (the IRB try of the year) was something that none of our centres would nail as sweetly. Darce isn't too bad a passer but rarely does so these days.

With all that said, I think there's still a stronger case for McFadden to travel. His defence has come along massively and he's much more powerful in contact and quicker than Wallace. His goalkicking is also better in my opinion. It's a tight call, but due to his versatility, I'd plump for McFadden. Don't think DK will see it that way though.

He won't; DK's innate conservatism will force him to bring a third out-half (even though Wallace is nothing of the sort).

I can reconcile myself to that, just so long as we don't end up in the farcial situation like we did in the Six Nations where we have ROG and Wallace on the bench and no cover for the outside backs. You know who provides cover for the outside backs? McFadden... I think he is a much better option for the squad as a whole than Wallace, who only becomes useful to anyone if Sexton or ROG picks up an injury, and with a week of recuperation between each game, it would want to be fairly serious for both tens not to be available.

smurphy29

Paddy Wallace is much maligned but he is a brilliant passer, no doubt about that. Much better than Darce, who has never been a brilliant distributor. McFadden's passing is fine, but not in the Wallace class.

irishbucsfan

GerM wrote: »

With all that said, I think there's still a stronger case for McFadden to travel. His defence has come along massively and he's much more powerful in contact and quicker than Wallace. His goalkicking is also better in my opinion. It's a tight call, but due to his versatility, I'd plump for McFadden. Don't think DK will see it that way though.

If we don't bring Wallace then who would you bring as a 3rd Out Half and who would miss out for him?

Burgo

irishbucsfan wrote: »

If we don't bring Wallace then who would you bring as a 3rd Out Half and who would miss out for him?

Keatley or iHumph? But I can't see Wallace not being selected as the 3rd outhlaf myself.

GerM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

If we don't bring Wallace then who would you bring as a 3rd Out Half and who would miss out for him?

I wouldn't bring one. We went with two (supposed) outhalves to the last WC. ROG is probably the most durable player in Irish rugby. I would have Ian Keatley on stand by as a third outhalf. I don't consider Wallace to really be an outhalf at this stage. He only played there a couple of times this season supposedly at DK's request and was quite poor. If the unthinkable happens and both ROG and Sexton were injured, I would bring Keatley out. If one of them was injured and there wasn't time to bring Keatley out, I would have McFadden on the bench and, in the event of the remaining outhalf shipping an injury within 80 minutes, I would bring McFadden on to take the kicks and move BOD into 10 for the remainder of the game and tell Keatley to grab his passport now. BOD actually stepped in and played in the 10 position for a large chunk of the game against NZ last summer. We'd have to go through the forwards for the vast majority of the remainder of the game but it would a freak series of events that saw both our outhalves out injured without time to have a replacement brought out.

Basically, I believe that if we have to bring in Wallace at 10, our goose is cooked.

irishbucsfan

GerM wrote: »

I wouldn't bring one. We went with two (supposed) outhalves to the last WC. ROG is probably the most durable player in Irish rugby. I would have Ian Keatley on stand by as a third outhalf. I don't consider Wallace to really be an outhalf at this stage. He only played there a couple of times this season supposedly at DK's request and was quite poor. If the unthinkable happens and both ROG and Sexton were injured, I would bring Keatley out. If one of them was injured and there wasn't time to bring Keatley out, I would have McFadden on the bench and, in the event of the remaining outhalf shipping an injury within 80 minutes, I would bring McFadden on to take the kicks and move BOD into 10 for the remainder of the game and tell Keatley to grab his passport now. BOD actually stepped in and played in the 10 position for a large chunk of the game against NZ last summer. We'd have to go through the forwards for the vast majority of the remainder of the game but it would a freak series of events that saw both our outhalves out injured without time to have a replacement brought out.

Basically, I believe that if we have to bring in Wallace at 10, our goose is cooked.

But in that situation, as with the hooker problem, that means if one of our 10s picks up a minor injury that means they will have to miss the rest of the tournament.

Once you are dropped from the squad you can't be called back up unless there's an injury. So Keatley would be in the squad ahead of ROG or Sexton for the rest of the tournament.


Also, with only 2 10s in the squad, what happens if there's an injury in the warmup?

siltirocker

irishbucsfan wrote: »

But in that situation, as with the hooker problem, that means if one of our 10s picks up a minor injury that means they will have to miss the rest of the tournament.

Once you are dropped from the squad you can't be called back up unless there's an injury. So Keatley would be in the squad ahead of ROG or Sexton for the rest of the tournament.


Also, with only 2 10s in the squad, what happens if there's an injury in the warmup?

But that was kinda his point. Why not just bring 3 outhalves.

I am a champion of Paddy Wallace and as some on this board might remember i wanted him ahead of D'Arcy for many games against SH teams but we don't need him in New Zealand IMO.

Also with our limited space on the plane I think bringing Duffy as Inside Centre/Fullback cover would be genius. Filling in for Wallace & acting as the 2nd fullback so we can bring a 3rd outhalf.

GerM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

But in that situation, as with the hooker problem, that means if one of our 10s picks up a minor injury that means they will have to miss the rest of the tournament.

Once you are dropped from the squad you can't be called back up unless there's an injury. So Keatley would be in the squad ahead of ROG or Sexton for the rest of the tournament.


Also, with only 2 10s in the squad, what happens if there's an injury in the warmup?

Fair points. Luckily, the way our games are scheduled, we have Russia in between Australia and Italy. If it's just a minor knock, the player should be able to shake it off for the Italian game. If it's more than that, I'd cut them loose. We might only have 4 games in the tournament and we can't afford to have someone along who is unavailable for 2 or 3 games.

It's not something that hasn't been done before. We did it in 2007 as did Scotland and I expect some other nations to do it again. Our problem is our failure to have a centre or full back that we've given adequate game time to at 10 at this level. Wallace barely plays for Ulster there. He has only played at 10 for Ulster about 5 or 6 times in the last 6 years in the HEC (always due to injuries) and, as far as I'm aware, Ulster lost every single time. DK has never played him at 10 during his 3 years in the job. If he genuinely believed he was a credible option there, he wouldn't have ROG/Sexton on the bench alongside him. Most countries have players who are utility backs who have significant experience at 10 internationally. Donald, Giteau, O'Connor, Hook, Paterson, Pienaar etc. Unfortunately we don't and the person who apparently fills that role (Wallace) can't do it to a decent standard.

In relation to the hooking position, it's a more specialised position in my opinion. No other player can really do it. No other player can throw in or hook in the scrum internationally. The same would apply to tighthead and I'd even stretch it to scrum half. They all have very specific functions in the team that requires experience and skill to execute. Of course outhalf requires similar skills but nothing as specific as opposed to a broad range and we can limit an outhalves involvement through the tactics employed.

All hypothetical anyway. I think DK will bring Wallace regardless. It's his head on the block and if the unthinkable happened and we lost both outhalves in a freak occurrence without time to arrange cover he would be crucified.

theboss80

Jennings possibly out for 6 weeks with arm injury.

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