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Formula 1: Round 7 - Canadian Grand Prix

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    #542
    Sitec
    Registered Users Posts: 2,964 ✭✭✭Sitec


    amacachi wrote: »
    If he hadn't been lucky with two safety cars that gave him free pitstops when others were gaining, if the last safety car hadn't come out Button, Webber and Schumacher were gaining at 3 seconds a lap and probably would've gotten past more quickly than they did.
    Exactly, about time his luck ran out. (this weekend)


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    #543
    IM0
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,390 ✭✭✭IM0


    ScrubsfanChris wrote: »
    No F1 forum :(

    yeah I think the whole 5 hour transmission killed that ;)


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    #544
    amacachi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,316 ✭✭✭✭amacachi


    Dcully wrote: »
    Thats what i mean, DRS enabled the winner to win :)
    It helps overtaking which is great, i just feel its an slightly artificial means of overtaking to a degree.
    F1 had to do something , DRS was there answer which is a success in what it set out to do which is great.
    Im just from the old school,i want drivers to pass if they are the fastest and overtake without the use of what i see as a form of driving aid.
    70% of me is all for DRS as it helps entertain us the fans more than recent times which can only be good for the sport.
    Its the best they have come up with and things are a lot better than say 2 years ago but the other 30% of me longs to see drivers overtake on the basis of pure skill 100%.

    Having said that Button was awesome today, it will go down in F1 history as one of the greatest wins.

    In fairness most of Button's mid-race passes were around the lap and not in the DRS area and only one of his three passes at the end were helped by DRS. He was so much faster than Vettel at the end and Webber's use of and messing up of DRS held Button up a helluva lot.


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    #545
    twincamman
    Registered Users Posts: 417 ✭✭twincamman


    pity micheal didnt make it on the podium .that drs is a great advantage for webber.


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    #546
    amacachi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,316 ✭✭✭✭amacachi


    Sitec wrote: »
    Exactly, about time his luck ran out. (this weekend)

    Did he have any bad luck though? He screwed up after Button had been held up and was almost a second behind and probably wouldn't have caught him even with the DRS.


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    #547
    Myrddin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭Myrddin


    Sitec wrote: »
    Exactly, about time his luck ran out. (this weekend)

    It kills me to even bring luck up regards Vettel, as it makes it sound like he's just lucky. Thats not the case though, he's an incredible driver, & well deserving of everything he gets. It's just the little things seem to fall into place for him a bit too much, the free pits stops today were another example.

    And when commentators & pundits start talking about it, you know your not just imagining it. Still though, he's the fastest chap out there & credit where its due. I'd love to see Webber getting a run of fortune though for a change.


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    #548
    GTE
    Registered Users Posts: 3,911 ✭✭✭GTE


    Fantastic race. Best one I remember seeing.

    Delighted for Schumacher that he can be up there if the conditions suit.
    I still think the Mercedes is very bad compared to where it should be in the dry but it goes to show when things slow down he can still mix it. I also felt that the DRS was shown up to be flawed for this race.

    The moment before the DRS was enabled you had such great racing and indeed Button needed it to get by Vettel which I am delighted with but it could be used for much too long down that final straight.

    That little burst was great for Massa and indeed he wouldnt have been in a position to use that if the long straight wasnt DRSed but still. Too easy.

    I feel that Schumacher couldnt have defended against Button, he was flying, but I think he could have defended against Webber. It doesn't give slower cars a chance. It should have been shorter.

    Great race though. Fantastic stuff.


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    #549
    Ghost Train
    Registered Users Posts: 30,117 ✭✭✭✭Ghost Train


    DRS helped with the passes but the passing car still needed to be the faster car. Schumacher did well to keep Webber behind for a good while

    Wonder if Vettel had stayed on the road would the DRS have allowed Button the get past him on the straight, probably 50:50, or maybe a bit more in Vettels favour if Button wasn't right behind at the hairpin


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    #550
    amacachi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,316 ✭✭✭✭amacachi


    EnterNow wrote: »
    It kills me to even bring luck up regards Vettel, as it makes it sound like he's just lucky. Thats not the case though, he's an incredible driver, & well deserving of everything he gets. It's just the little things seem to fall into place for him a bit too much, the free pits stops today were another example.

    And when commentators & pundits start talking about it, you know your not just imagining it. Still though, he's the fastest chap out there & credit where its due. I'd love to see Webber getting a run of fortune though for a change.

    As I said though, even today there was no bad luck for him, he just fcuked up. He's like when Tiger Woods hits into a temporary stand and the ball hits it and lands on the green and he still only pars. :pac:


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    #551
    robinph
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,088 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    twincamman wrote: »
    pity micheal didnt make it on the podium .that drs is a great advantage for webber.

    It took him three attempts though.


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    #552
    matty55
    Registered Users Posts: 213 ✭✭matty55


    That race will go down as one of the all time greats!!!


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    #553
    Myrddin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 33,733 ✭✭✭✭Myrddin


    amacachi wrote: »
    As I said though, even today there was no bad luck for him, he just fcuked up.

    True that. It showed in his body language afterwards that he himself believed he threw the win away.

    Edit - is there ever bad luck for him though? Ever like?


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    #554
    Sheeps
    Registered Users Posts: 2,762 ✭✭✭Sheeps


    Don't think any of Hamilton's incidents were his fault aside from the Webber incident which was down to weather really. It was unfortunate for Hamilton, but Button was definitely the driver of the race.


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    #555
    Sitec
    Registered Users Posts: 2,964 ✭✭✭Sitec


    amacachi wrote: »
    Did he have any bad luck though? He screwed up after Button had been held up and was almost a second behind and probably wouldn't have caught him even with the DRS.
    As far as his weekends go, he was unlucky.

    Usually he gets it handed to him on a plate.


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    #556
    GTE
    Registered Users Posts: 3,911 ✭✭✭GTE


    Ghost Train wrote: »
    DRS helped with the passes but the passing car still needed to be the faster car. Schumacher did well to keep Webber behind for a good while

    Yes, but the first or second time he had the DRS he drives straight past?
    Webber had trouble keeping up with the Mercedes with traction so if the DRS was short enough to get him up to an attacking position then I am all for it, but I know that that is only for those two particular cars.

    The Mercedes is too bad to cut it in the podium. Schumacher was always going to finish 4th.

    It will be fine for the future though. Its all a learning experience and with any luck the Mercedes will actually get fast enough.


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    #557
    amacachi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,316 ✭✭✭✭amacachi


    EnterNow wrote: »
    True that. It showed in his body language afterwards that he himself believed he threw the win away.

    Edit - is there ever bad luck for him though? Ever like?
    I'm really struggling to think of anyway. I suppose he'll insist Turkey and Belgium last year were. :pac:
    bbk wrote: »
    Yes, but the first or second time he had the DRS he drives straight past?
    Webber had trouble keeping up with the Mercedes with traction so if the DRS was short enough to get him up to an attacking position then I am all for it, but I know that that is only for those two particular cars.

    The Mercedes is too bad to cut it in the podium. Schumacher was always going to finish 4th.

    It will be fine for the future though. Its all a learning experience and with any luck the Mercedes will actually get fast enough.
    Different cars are set up differently. McLaren had their car set up for the DRS to be useful and also had excellent traction. Button stayed so close after the hairpin that he probably could've just slipstreamed him anyway.



    On another note, HRT are currently 10th in the constructors' standings. Can we please stop the bitching about them now?! :pac:


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    #558
    puddles22
    Registered Users Posts: 557 ✭✭✭puddles22


    what a race im still buzzing from it, very well deserved win for jb his best yet, im not a shcumy fan but have to admit it would have been nice to see him up there to


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    #559
    jam_on_toast
    Registered Users Posts: 127 ✭✭jam_on_toast


    Great race at the end, gutted for schumi.

    Was obvious from the first few laps that Lewis wasnt going to finish, he has no idea how to bide his time. I'm all for his racing style but he has himself to blame today.

    Worst driver of the race has to be Massa, ferrari need to ditch him. He wasted half the race sitting behind kobayashi when vettel was there for the taking. He had to be told over the radio to pass him! Unbelievable!

    Hopefully jenson can kick on now and vettel will start to 2nd guess himself.


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    #560
    Cool_CM
    Registered Users Posts: 4,956 ✭✭✭Cool_CM


    bbk wrote: »
    I feel that Schumacher couldnt have defended against Button, he was flying, but I think he could have defended against Webber. It doesn't give slower cars a chance. It should have been shorter.
    In fairness, that last restart just goes to show how slow the Mercedes is when compared with the RBs and McLarens. Schumi was right behind Vettel going onto the straight and was just left behind when Vettel opened up.
    Webber and Button were all over him in two vastly superior cars, he did well to hold them off for as long as he did.


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    #561
    Shane732
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 4,991 Mod ✭✭✭✭Shane732


    The race was quality, even if I don't agree with the way the race started etc...

    Button had an unbelievable drive.

    Amazing to think that Schumacher got badly stung by going onto inters at the wrong time before the red flag and yet was having a peak at Vettel at the last restart.

    To my mind Schumacher is still capable of racing with the best of them. If you put him in the Red Bull would he do as well as Webber is doing?


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    #562
    Andrew76
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 10,249 Mod ✭✭✭✭Andrew76


    EnterNow wrote: »
    It kills me to even bring luck up regards Vettel, as it makes it sound like he's just lucky. Thats not the case though, he's an incredible driver, & well deserving of everything he gets. It's just the little things seem to fall into place for him a bit too much, the free pits stops today were another example.

    And when commentators & pundits start talking about it, you know your not just imagining it. Still though, he's the fastest chap out there & credit where its due. I'd love to see Webber getting a run of fortune though for a change.

    Quite a few times you've heard people say you make your own luck (Webber and the commentators at least), in relation to things falling nicely for Vettel. I might be wrong but the impression I get is that a lot of this luck stems from him running at the front most of the time, he's able to control the race and take advantage of other ppl making moves first, being able to react I mean. I would bet he won't make the same mistake again of trying to control the pace so much in the last few laps, a bigger gap would've meant less pressure.

    Gutted for Schumi though. :(


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    #563
    amacachi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,316 ✭✭✭✭amacachi


    Andrew76 wrote: »
    Quite a few times you've heard people say you make your own luck (Webber and the commentators at least), in relation to things falling nicely for Vettel. I might be wrong but the impression I get is that a lot of this luck stems from him running at the front most of the time, he's able to control the race and take advantage of other ppl making moves first, being able to react I mean. I would bet he won't make the same mistake again of trying to control the pace so much in the last few laps, a bigger gap would've meant less pressure.

    Gutted for Schumi though. :(

    I admit plenty comes from being out front but I the safety cars today fell for him consistently perfectly which had nothing to do with where he was on track and everything to do with him being the last one to pit while others were gaining on him.


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    #564
    Autosport
    Registered Users Posts: 22,252 ✭✭✭✭Autosport


    After this race i cant wait for the next race, Europe better be as exciting as the end of this race :D


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    #565
    johnnysmack
    Registered Users Posts: 2,108 ✭✭✭johnnysmack


    Im not reading back through the 39 pages of this thread to check but when the director was putting shots of everyone up to kill time during the red flag period, did anyone notice the can of red bull in front of charlie whiting in race control?

    No wonder everything keeps falling into place for vettel when the officals are paid off with lifetime supplies of the drink!! :pac:


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    #566
    Andrew76
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 10,249 Mod ✭✭✭✭Andrew76


    Shane732 wrote: »
    ...If you put him in the Red Bull would he do as well as Webber is doing?

    Probably would do as well as Webber but similarly he'd still trail Vettel all the time. If he can't match Rosberg for outright pace then no hope against the current champ.


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    #567
    recyclebin
    Registered Users Posts: 3,504 ✭✭✭recyclebin


    What weather, what a delay, what a race and what a win by Button!

    How did Canada get dropped from the calander a few years ago. They won't make that mistake again. One of the best tracks on the calender. Can't wait for the next race now.


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    #568
    Andrew76
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 10,249 Mod ✭✭✭✭Andrew76


    johnnysmack wrote: »
    Im not reading back through the 39 pages of this thread to check but when the director was putting shots of everyone up to kill time during the red flag period, did anyone notice the can of red bull in front of charlie whiting in race control?

    No wonder everything keeps falling into place for vettel when the officals are paid off with lifetime supplies of the drink!! :pac:

    Didn't notice that, but did anyone spot the clip board beside Rob Smedly during race - it was partially covered but all you could see at the top was "ME HARD". :eek:


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    #569
    GTE
    Registered Users Posts: 3,911 ✭✭✭GTE


    amacachi wrote: »
    Different cars are set up differently. McLaren had their car set up for the DRS to be useful and also had excellent traction. Button stayed so close after the hairpin that he probably could've just slipstreamed him anyway.

    I accept that, I never said he could have defended against Button. Webber is who I am on about.
    And I also accept that you cant define DRS setup (as in where it is used) by judging from just two cars. If its perfect for two cars it would be woeful or too easy for others.
    Cool_CM wrote: »
    Webber and Button were all over him in two vastly superior cars, he did well to hold them off for as long as he did.

    As I said Button was always going to pass him but Webber was losing so much traction in the important bits that I think it would have been much more interesting to have no DRS then Webber DRSing past. The only good thing I saw from that was Webber underestimating the speed at which he was going into the last corner and messing it up a few times.

    The only point I want to really make is that the DRS coming up to the last corner was a bit too much in length. When Webber got it right it was just a breeze past when in reality Schumacher had the edge on Webber or at least more 50/50 before the DRS was enabled. Having said that Schumacher was close at the end but my problem is a car breezing past another like a back marker.

    With all that said it contributed greatly to one of the best races I have seen the BBC got coverage back.


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    #570
    fatalll
    Registered Users Posts: 437 ✭✭fatalll


    Man the GP F1 has changed
    DRS's, men falling on the track in front of cars(that was Funny!:D) was like he was trying to be knocked down....especially when he fell a second time..

    I dont agree with the start with the safety car, it was dry enough.
    they should not be allowed to change tyres while waiting for the restart either!

    Man it has changed in the few years since i watched it last,,,,

    Good race in the end though, would have been nice if schu finished on the podium!!


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    #571
    Mike Litoris
    Registered Users Posts: 6,050 ✭✭✭Mike Litoris


    Shane732 wrote: »
    To my mind Schumacher is still capable of racing with the best of them. If you put him in the Red Bull would he do as well as Webber is doing?

    Better I reckon. I still dont rate Webber, he's very like DC was.


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