Is an orgasm so important ???

Oh dear, oh dear. It’s a shame, Mallei, that you have adopted such an aggressive and wrong-headed attitude, because beneath all that defensiveness you make some valid points. However, those points are entirely obscured by your dismissal and degradation of other women’s sexual experiences in an attempt to validate your own as universally applicable.

First, I agree with you that depictions of sex in mainstream popular culture are almost invariably “phallocentric” and penetration-focused. I agree that girls (and boys) grow up watching movies and reading books that depict penetrative sex as the main event for both men and women. I die a little inside when I hear of teenage girls queuing up to deliver blow jobs and risking pregnancy and sexual disease for “McSex” with young boys that is probably unsatisfying and will most likely be ultimately regretted.

I can relate to your hostility towards society’s apparent “phallocentrism” in matters of sex and the depiction of penetration as the holy grail of sex for both genders. I imagine it is difficult for men to comprehend but I remember growing up being quite incapable, in practical rather than moral terms, to masturbate to any good effect. The overwhelming message from books, television, films etc was that penetrative sex was the source of all sexual pleasure. I recall Eminem opining some years ago that no teenager could now be expected not to know what a clitoris is, or some such. Well, perhaps. I remember clearly the day, at 16, when a classmate brought in a copy of “New Woman” with an article about some mysterious thing called a clitoris. “What would that yoke be when it’s at home?”, we wondered. (“I knew a Father Clint Power.”) Now this was 20 years ago, in fairness, but that’s not really so long ago. Really, it isn’t. :cool:

When I fell in love for the first time in my late teens and, after months of exploratory fumbling, finally experienced the wonder of Clint Power, the joy was absolute. I felt – perhaps, like you, - that this was some wonderful secret that for some reason was being withheld from women! Why all the focus on boring old penetration when there was so much delicious pleasure to be had from fingers and tongues? Was it a conspiracy? Why were some women persisting in extolling the virtue of the old in-and-out? The traitors!

I’m a lot older now, somewhat more experienced and a little bit wiser. After years of extensive research, namely, asking lots of women lots of nosey questions (!), I have concluded thus. A lot of women need direct and sustained clitoral stimulation in order to have reliable orgasms. A lot of women sometimes orgasm through penetration with minimal or only indirect clitoral stimulation, but it is hit and miss. These categories are not mutually exclusive and both apply to me personally. Some women orgasm easily and regularly through penetrative sex alone, including some through anal sex. I know because I’ve spoken to such women. They’re not lying.

I agree with Wibbs that women are more complicated than men in this regard. Researchers are still making new discoveries about the clitoral anatomy and the female sexual response. As other posters said, some women will orgasm through penetrative sex with one partner and not another. Some will orgasm through penetrative sex during months beginning with J but at no other time. Whatever. Other women’s experience of sex is no reflection on and of no relevance to yours, Mallei. I can relate to some of what you say, as I already said. For me, penetration with minimal or no clitoral stimulation is essentially sensation-neutral – not unpleasant but certainly not particularly stimulating. A lot of men (and women) may find that difficult to comprehend; it is after all my own experience as a unique, individual woman. I disagree with another poster that finding anal sex painful is most likely a consequence of doing it wrong. Despite careful and thorough preparation on each occasion I tried it, I have never found it other than painful and deeply unpleasant. I have no doubt there are women who wonder at this, being huge fans of the old swiss love and finding it immensely pleasurable.

At this stage in my life I know I will never orgasm easily and consistently from penetrative sex alone. I will never enjoy anal sex. But just because that is true for me, and perhaps for a large number of women, does not mean it is true for all women. Do I find it irksome that depictions of satisfying sexual encounters in popular culture are so penetration-focused? Yes, it is irksome because it is not representative of my experience, and I know it is not representative of many women’s experience, but that does not negate the reality that it is in fact quite well representative of some women’s experience.

At the end of the day, Mallei, it matters not a jot what other people are doing in bed or what other women enjoy. It even matters little if we are bombarded with the message that penetrative sex is somehow “real sex” or the “best sex”. (Although I would advocate impressing on young teenagers that there are activities other than intercourse which are very pleasurable but pose a lesser risk of disease and negligible risk of pregnancy while also facilitating a discussion of sex as something which should be based on mutual pleasure-giving and mutual respect.) At the end of the day your only concern – anybody’s only concern – should be ensuring one’s sexual experiences, and those of one's partner - are as pleasurable and positive as possible. I’m sorry you seem to have had some unpleasant encounters, Mallei. Bear in mind though that a guy who seems selfish in bed may simply be inexperienced. Remember they’ve grown up with all the same messages about sex – poor bloke could be giving himself a hernia as he keeps going for hours thinking he’s doing what you want! If you’re not getting what you need why not seize the initiative and take the matter in your own hands; you’re guaranteed satisfaction and it’s instructive for him. All good!

Jeez, that was some diatribe. Well done to anybody who stuck to the end. :eek:

Wow, you guys sure are good at ganging up on people you don't agree with. I wonder how many people here actually get some with these snarky, overly sensitive, cliquey, bitchy attitudes. I certainly wouldn't do anyone like that, not with a 10 foot dildo (but you'll probably enjoy that because penetration is more important than orgasming). In fact, if I had a bag of willies, I wouldn't give you one.

Wibbs wrote: »

Dial it back Biscuits. If you have a problem with a post or posts then please by all means report them. Getting insulting favours no one.

Sorry, I figured they're not going to favour anything I say anyway.

I'll just say one more thing and then I'll leave (I don't like arguing on the internet, I think it's a waste of time, I'm a moderator on another forum and I see most of the time it doesn't go anywhere and no-one learns anything). So I'll state my argument and leave, the users can do with it what they want.

I agree with what that Cat person said and read her whole post, except the part "some people do enjoy it", I'm of aware of this, I'm one of those people (but I still hold the big O in higher esteem and would prefer it any day to penetration without orgasm) but that isn't going to stop me from thinking these people are missing out for having these attitudes towards sex just because of how they've seen it in the media and heard if from their close-minded friends and then thinking it's enjoyable. I think it's also instinctual because this is how we reproduce.

It seems to be factual that most women don't orgasm from conventional sex and my theory is that this majority are only enjoying it because they think they're supposed to and yes, this has a huge affect on a lot of people, bigger than you'd think (it's almost like a placebo effect). I'm not offending anyone by thinking this, I'm just questioning the sincerity of the women claiming. Not all of them of course, but I am dubious of the mass amount who say "I can have great sex without an orgasm, herp, derp".

Okay, also, I'm only gone 18-years-old and not to give too much details but at such a young age I've had the best sex ever and I've tried pretty much everything and I'd still prefer clitoral orgasms. Luckily for me this isn't reduced to just being touched and cunninglus. You probably don't know anything about girl-on-girl (especially if you think sex is just OMG PENIS) and think we can't have sex because there's no penis but we can do anything a heterosexual couple can do and we can go clit-to-clit (I know, too much details, it's necessary I'm getting to my point now!) which has all the aspects of penetrative sex you guys are talking about (the intimacy, the closeness, the relief, the fun whatever else you were claiming was better than orgasming).

I'm not sprouting inane nonsense, I'm speaking from experience, I know what it means to be closed minded when it comes to sex, I can be myself (no anal, no men, though I think that's reasonable) and I've missed out on real pleasure myself because of it. For example, I would never, ever, ever try out a strap-on before now I've got a strapless one, it vibrates, it's waterproof, it pleases both of us and the giver's clit....I don't think I'd be able to have sex without it now O_o, yeah, big stretch if you ask me. So, I'm not just being mean when I say "open your god damn mind!".

I wouldn't be able to orgasm as much if I didn't have such great sex and I still get all the intimacy and I don't miss out on anything because I'm focused on orgasming. I don't dedicate sex to orgasming, I dedicate it to the person I'm having it with but I would be very disappointed if I didn't and if I'm solely focused on orgasming it's because I want to get the first one over and done with so I can have multiple ones easier, when you have sex with a girl there's no rush anyway,I just would prefer to orgasm a lot.

Bottom line: Sex is better when you orgasm because when you orgasm you get all the intimacy with the cherry on your cake. My personal opinion is it's not a finished cake if it doesn't have a cherry on it. Sex != penetration, sex = orgasm because that's where the real pleasure in sex lies. Just my opinion. The journey does matter, never said it didn't, but the destination is just as important to me.

Raze_them_all wrote: »

Lol did you intentionally post that just so you could come back with that line?

I can make the assumption as you've already said no anal or men, Which leads me onto other restrictions, hardcore s + m, water sports and loads and loads and loads of other fetishes and sexual practices out there.

Also the fact that you call yourself slutty for trying different sexual stuff shows your sort of closed mindedness

Geez, you guys really are hard to please, no wonder you find it hard to orgasm.

No, I have tried sex with men and I have tried anal, that's why I won't do it again, actually. And I'm a slut because I'm a slut (the definition meaning I've slept around, dippy) not because I've tried different things.

You guys are the presumptuous ones if anything, most people don't know about lesbian sex, they think it's all foreplay and hugs, amirite?

Raze_them_all wrote: »

As for the lesbian sex I've seen it's always been hugging and thats it :rolleyes:

Well then you're the ignorant asshole, not me.

Biscuits. wrote: »

Well then you're the ignorant asshole, not me.

Attack the post - not the poster, do not resort to personal abuse.

Biscuits. wrote: »

It was a hyperbole, ffs. Of course I haven't tried everything but I have tried a lot of things.

And JESUS ****ING CHRIST THAT'S NOT WHAT I'M TRYING TO SAY. I'm a lesbian, so ****ing what, I'm not going to flaunt it or whatever you're trying to imply, it just gives me a chance to tell girls to snap out of it because they look like idiots from the outside.

Attack the content when you can't attack the message, amirite? Just because I said I was very experienced you guys jump down my throat.

Out of interest, why does being a lesbian give you a chance to tell girls to snap out of it because they look like idiots from the outside?
And, why do they look like idiots?