Trans* Questions

deirdre_dub · 11-02-2011 06:44PM

Azure_sky wrote: »

Do you need to see a psychiatrist as soon as you see Dr' O' Shea? I already saw Dr Kelly and he diagnosed me with GID, so do I have to see another psychiatrist now?

No.

Loughlinstown should be able to refer you to their in-house psychiatrist. In the mean time, Dr. Kelly's diagnosis is enough to start you off on HRT.

Azure_sky · 11-02-2011 09:16PM

deirdre_dub wrote: »

No.

Loughlinstown should be able to refer you to their in-house psychiatrist. In the mean time, Dr. Kelly's diagnosis is enough to start you off on HRT.

Thanks, that's a relief.

Asry · 09-04-2011 02:50PM

Hi!

First: I read the charter. What's wereaz?

Then: how easy would it be to hide the fact you were trans? Do children hide it? Can they? I know maybe as they get older they could hide it if they (for some reason) were afraid of their family's reactions or had emotional issues or negative feelings about the person they are etc. I mean, I'm attracted to both men and women, and always have been, and I f**king hate it sometimes (but that's a whole other story). But how evident, I think my question is, is it in a child that they may be transgendered? I'm just trying to learn more about it, to be honest. I hope that nothing I said was offensive, or even if my asking this question is offensive. If it was, I never in any way intended to hurt/demean anybody, and it just goes to show how ignorant I really am.

Asry · 09-04-2011 02:53PM

uh oh. I just saw that trans questions thread. Ought I have posted this in there? Many apologies.

hare05 · 09-04-2011 03:45PM

Better to post in there from now on, yeah.

But in answer, yes.

Children as early as 4 or 5 years old have known instinctively that there's something wrong, and have alerted their parents to it. People who barely understand the concept of gender outside of 'pee standing or sitting'.

Read through the trans questions thread. Some interesting stuff there.

Asry · 09-04-2011 03:50PM

thank you kindly

deirdre_dub · 10-04-2011 02:30PM

Asry wrote: »

Then: how easy would it be to hide the fact you were trans? Do children hide it?

There weren't any signs, internal or external, that I might be trans, until age 9 or so. Before then, I just kinda saw everyone (including myself) as being without gender. However, that world view starts to become pretty impossible once puberty begins to threaten.

At age 9 or so, I started to have an attraction towards "women's" clothes. I was terribly shamed and freaked out by my attraction, so I pushed it to the back of my psyche, where it refused to stay. Finally, at age 39, having spent my life not understanding gender, and finding myself generally miserable as a male, I started to entertain thoughts that I might be trans. Until then, my cross-dressing was very hidden and private, and on the outside, I just tried my damnest to be a regular guy.

Asry · 10-04-2011 03:14PM

deirdre_dub wrote: »

There weren't any signs, internal or external, that I might be trans, until age 9 or so. Before then, I just kinda saw everyone (including myself) as being without gender. However, that world view starts to become pretty impossible once puberty begins to threaten.

Thanks Deirdre

I wonder why women dressing and acting as men is more acceptable than men dressing and acting as women, even outside the trans spectrum (I'm thinking of Marlene Dietrich and that Mrs Brown thing). As regards just the clothes [obviously being trans is not merely about wanting to wear the clothes attributed to another sex], I've always felt more comfortable in boy's clothes, shoes, underwear, perfume, etc. I always feel very self conscious and conspicuous - wrong - when I have to don dresses and high heels for things like weddings. As a child, apparently, I used to always want to be a boy. When I hit puberty and my body began to become more obviously a woman's, I felt betrayed by it.

I'm not saying I'm trans or that I think I might be. I suppose there's a sliding scale of gender, like the Kinsey sexuality scale, and some people end up at one end where they're meant to be at the other? And some people end up where they're meant to be right at the start. And some people end up somewhere in the middle? I'm probably talking bollocks.

rainbow kirby · 10-04-2011 03:16PM

Asry wrote: »

I'm not saying I'm trans or that I think I might be. I suppose there's a sliding scale of gender, like the Kinsey sexuality scale, and some people end up at one end where they're meant to be at the other? And some people end up where they're meant to be right at the start. And some people end up somewhere in the middle? I'm probably talking bollocks.

This might be worth a read - few good links at the bottom too.

Asry · 10-04-2011 03:36PM

wow! Cool! I never knew about this! That makes billions of sense.

No seriously. I mean, I don't think anyone should be anything. People should be able to be everything at once, not one thing or the other. That doesn't make sense. Eat your spaghetti with chocolate sauce and chopsticks. Or something.

Now I have links to stare at for the rest of the afternoon! I'm doing 'non medically sanctioned' 'gender tests'. You put me in front of any kind of internet quiz and I'll do it.

deirdre_dub · 10-04-2011 07:16PM

Asry wrote: »

I've always felt more comfortable in boy's clothes, shoes, underwear, perfume, etc. I always feel very self conscious and conspicuous - wrong - when I have to don dresses and high heels for things like weddings. As a child, apparently, I used to always want to be a boy. When I hit puberty and my body began to become more obviously a woman's, I felt betrayed by it.

Hate to say it, but that is quite a typical trans story. That does not mean that you should start talking to the medical profession about transition - as Rainbow Kirby's link shows, there are many different ways of being trans. My advice to you would be to explore your gender, by dressing the way you want, and by interacting with people and the world in the way you want. By doing so, the correct path for you to take should make itself known.

You might also want to look at the article "A Girl Named Adam" by Adam McBride in the current issue of BoLT magazine.

I mean, I don't think anyone should be anything. People should be able to be everything at once, not one thing or the other.

No - people should be who they are. For some people, that means not being one thing or the other. For others, it means being exactly what they were identified as being at birth. And for yet others, it means being exactly the opposite.

hare05 · 10-04-2011 07:51PM

Asry wrote: »

wow! Cool! I never knew about this! That makes billions of sense.

No seriously. I mean, I don't think anyone should be anything. People should be able to be everything at once, not one thing or the other. That doesn't make sense. Eat your spaghetti with chocolate sauce and chopsticks. Or something.

Now I have links to stare at for the rest of the afternoon! I'm doing 'non medically sanctioned' 'gender tests'. You put me in front of any kind of internet quiz and I'll do it.

Don't bother with online 'tests', I'm guessing COGIATI? The problem with a strict test like that is it was written from a specific viewpoint, with answers weighed by that viewpoint, and does not take into consideration the possibility of other options. So unless you are the one who made the test, you won't get a decent reading of where you are on whatever arbitrary scale.

Don't be constrained by labels.

Asry · 10-04-2011 08:47PM

oh, no; I was just doing the test for sh1ts and giggles. I don't trust the outcome of anything like that online.

I've never really been that into labels, but when things affect me that other people label, it makes me worried and stuff.

Anyway, to that end, I'm minorly freaking out about the whole story being a typical trans thing. Does my sense of self have to change now that I might be something that has a name and an identity of its own? It's like finding something about yourself you didn't know was there. And that's scary - who else would know you better? Something hidden in there but a part of me. Slightly hyperventilating. It's overwhelming.

Chuchoter · 10-04-2011 09:44PM

Don't freak out about labels or anything else, tbh I feel theres developed a bit of a pressure for anyone who is slightly outside of gender norms to look into being trans and pick various different labels, but its your life. Live it the way you want to and if that way turns out to be being trans then go for it, but unless living as your current gender is causing you a lot of hassle, don't worry too much.

Annasopra · 10-04-2011 11:05PM

deirdre_dub wrote: »

Hate to say it, but that is quite a typical trans story.

It probably is but that doesn't necessarily mean Asry is trans though surely?

deirdre_dub · 11-04-2011 07:44AM

Johnnymcg wrote: »

It probably is but that doesn't necessarily mean Asry is trans though surely?

Correct. There is one person and one person only who can answer the question as to whether Asry is trans, and that person is Asry.

deirdre_dub · 11-04-2011 07:58AM

Asry wrote: »

Anyway, to that end, I'm minorly freaking out about the whole story being a typical trans thing.

My apologies for my role in generating that freak out.

Does my sense of self have to change now that I might be something that has a name and an identity of its own?

That is up to you. I think what you are doing - asking questions, exploring - is a good thing to be doing. It is what I believe everyone should be doing constantly throughout their lives.

You, and only you, can say who and what you are. All I can do is to say that what you've said, in my experience, is quite a typical trans story. That doesn't mean that you are trans - only you can figure that out.

And that's scary - who else would know you better?

NO-ONE! And certainly not me!!!

Something hidden in there but a part of me. Slightly hyperventilating. It's overwhelming.

Relax. And my apologies for my role in generating that panic. You get to tell the world who and what you are.

deirdre_dub · 11-04-2011 11:18AM

Asry,

You are not trans. How do I know? Because you told me so.

If, at some stage in the future, you come back here and say that you are trans, I'll accept that. If you never say that you are trans, I'll accept that too.

How do I reconcile my belief that you are not trans with my observation that your story is typically trans? Simple - diversity. The diversity of human experience is such that not everyone with a typical trans story is trans.

Take the story of Adam McBride that I linked to in my post above. Adam was identified as female at birth, had a typical trans story, changed his name, yet doesn't take hormones, and very occasionally wears a skirt.

Diversity. Everything is possible. And that is not only something I say from personal experience - the most recent scientific investigations into gender agrees.

I apologise again if I left you with the impression that because your story is typically trans that means you are trans.

It does not.

Asry · 11-04-2011 11:26AM

deirdre_dub wrote: »

NO-ONE! And certainly not me!!!

Ohh no, I meant that only I would know me as well as I do.

Don't be worried about your part in my little melodrama

I'm prone to them anyway! Melodramatics I mean. It's just that I have this whole perspective that I have never considered. Probably because I never really talked to anyone about the gender thing before. I mean, I've been reading a lot about diversity etc, and I'm surprised I didn't connect the dots myself. I read A Girl Called Adam, by the way

That was really great

But yeah it'll probably just take me a little while to adjust to these new ideas and perspectives. But really, it's not like anything's changing. It's just new terms and ideologies surrounding what was already there.

azezil · 19-04-2011 11:45AM

I didn't want to detract from Louisevb's landmark victory by asking in that thread but

deirdre_dub wrote: »

1. Your own sense of discomfort

Some trans people are more comfortable with their birth genitalia than others. Indeed, some don't even need surgery at all.

HUH!?

I find this very confusing. Take for example a woman born in a man's physical body. How could you not want to ditch the penis?

From my perspective if you're a hetro woman you'll have the same natural urges most / all people have to be intimate with someone, in this case a hetro man. I can't imagine there are many hetro men out there who would want to get intimate with a woman who has a penis. And conversely if you're a lesbian, I don't believe they would want to sleep with a woman with a cock either.

Seems to be you're severely limiting your options there.

Links234 · 19-04-2011 12:24PM

azezil wrote: »

How could you not want to ditch the penis?

because that's only one small piece of the puzzle so to speak. most of the physical changes are due to hormones, and many men and women are perfectly happy with their bodies without genital surgery when they transition. how your body is sexed is so much more than your genitals anyway.

sure, there's a lot of people who wouldn't want to date a transgender person, but nobody would really get major surgery they didn't want in order to increase their chances of getting a partner, would they?

hare05 · 19-04-2011 12:28PM

azezil wrote: »

I didn't want to detract from Louisevb's landmark victory by asking in that thread but
HUH!?

I find this very confusing. Take for example a woman born in a man's physical body. How could you not want to ditch the penis?

From my perspective if you're a hetro woman you'll have the same natural urges most / all people have to be intimate with someone, in this case a hetro man. I can't imagine there are many hetro men out there who would want to get intimate with a woman who has a penis. And conversely if you're a lesbian, I don't believe they would want to sleep with a woman with a cock either.

Seems to be you're severely limiting your options there.

It's not about sexual options. It's about your own internal identity. Imagine you were the last person on earth. No peer pressure to conform to any stereotype. Would you see yourself trying to maintain your current image? Would you change things you didn't like but others 'required' you to maintain?

Some trans people can't afford the surgery, some don't want to risk invasive operations, others just don't really care about their genitals, and are happy with just getting everything else right.

I, for instance do want SRS, but I'm not pushed to get it RIGHT NOW and if I'm told I can't get it due to complications... well, at least I get hrt. Sex was never my intended result. You'd be surprised how many 'offers' I have to turn down in boy mode anyway. xD

azezil · 19-04-2011 12:37PM

Perhaps it's just how I view it; being in love & making love go hand in hand for me, I personally feel it's an important part of any healthy relationship.

deirdre_dub · 19-04-2011 01:28PM

azezil wrote: »

HUH!?

It is relatively rare for a trans person to get HRT and not get surgery, but it does happen.

I can't imagine there are many hetro men out there who would want to get intimate with a woman who has a penis.

Actually, there are tons of them! I reckon I have a much higher chance of getting a straight man if I have a pen1s than if I don't (simply because there are more of those men looking for us than there are those of us who are looking for them).

And conversely if you're a lesbian, I don't believe they would want to sleep with a woman with a cock either.

As opposed to sleeping with a woman with a strap-on? Which isn't to say that I believe that lesbians wish that their partners had a "natural" strap-on, or that strap-ons are a necessary part of lesbian relationships!!! But I'm sure some would find a pen1s quite workable. The point is that human sexuality is incredibly diverse.

There are also those who are bisexual and pansexual. Pansexuality, in particular, seems to be quite common in the trans community.

Seems to be you're severely limiting your options there.

The key point is that if I am not comfortable in my body, then my options will be zero. If I'm not happy with me, then I'm not going to be happy with someone else. And I'm not going to "manufacture" dislike of a body part simply to fit into what others expect to see when I drop my pants.

deirdre_dub · 19-04-2011 01:31PM

azezil wrote: »

Perhaps it's just how I view it; being in love & making love go hand in hand for me, I personally feel it's an important part of any healthy relationship.

Yes, but you have to love yourself first. And that means, amongst other things, not wanting to vomit when you look in the mirror. If a pair of tits and no penis makes you want to vomit in a way that a pair of tits and a penis don't, then you should not get surgery.

hare05 · 19-04-2011 01:35PM

Maybe we should add this to the FAQ? Seems a lot of people have been asking this exact question recently.

azezil · 19-04-2011 02:47PM

Yeah ok, that makes sense

Asry · 20-04-2011 10:52PM

this has to do with a thread on the main forum where a poster is asking for advice on how is best to come out as trans to their family.

I know that there's a long stretch with psychoanalytic people and all that hoopla required for surgery. But do you really need to be diagnosed with GID as a medical condition before you can come out? I'm just wondering about the technicalities. I mean, obviously you don't need a doctor to tell you that you have GID - I'd say there's a 100% chance that you're fully aware of that yourself already, like. But in order to tell people you're trans, do you need to go through the diagnosis first? Or not? I know that you don't need a certificate to be how you are, but as it's a medical condition in itself, .... yeah I asked my question a few sentences back, now I'm just winding myself up in knots here.

deirdre_dub · 20-04-2011 11:57PM

Asry wrote: »

But do you really need to be diagnosed with GID as a medical condition before you can come out?

No.

Please note that what I wrote was about my coming out - it is what I found useful. You are the best judge as to what is the best way for you to come out.

I'm just wondering about the technicalities. I mean, obviously you don't need a doctor to tell you that you have GID - I'd say there's a 100% chance that you're fully aware of that yourself already, like. But in order to tell people you're trans, do you need to go through the diagnosis first? Or not? I know that you don't need a certificate to be how you are, but as it's a medical condition in itself, .... yeah I asked my question a few sentences back, now I'm just winding myself up in knots here.

Everyone is different. Speaking for myself, I found it useful to have that "bit of paper in my back pocket" which was backing up what I was saying. But you are absolutely 100% correct - you don't need a certificate to be how you are. And you certainly don't need a certificate to tell others how you are!

The only things I am aware of that a diagnosis of GID is necessary for are hormonal and surgical treatments for GID!

deirdre_dub · 21-04-2011 12:20AM

Asry wrote: »

But do you really need to be diagnosed with GID as a medical condition before you can come out?

OK - I've read what I wrote, and I have a few more comments.

What I found useful about the whole "I've got a diagnosis" thing is that it deflected attention away from any notion that this was a decision I made, and directed that attention towards doctors and towards this being a recognised medical condition that I have no control over. Now, many (maybe even most?) people don't need their attention re-directed in that manner. It was just something that I liked to do "just in case".

There may be other ways of re-directing that attention. Or, you might try and gently find out if people already know that transgenderism isn't a "choice". Or, you might gently pre-educate people about transgenderism. The approach above is what (eventually!) worked for me.

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