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Saorview Content Speculation

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Comments

  • #1052
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 20,398 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    OB truck upgrade would be at the dish end, so could not be that much. What is charged would be in line with traffic.

    So could be a bit cheaper. Not much competition for the service mind, only Ireland covered.


  • #1053
    Elmo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    In relation to the Muxes.

    Mux 1 currently airs

    6 SD channels, 1 HD Channel and 10 radio stations

    In the future ?????

    Mux 1

    1 HD and 6 SD channel and 10 radio stations (TG4 HD, RTÉjr, NEWS NOW and 4 others)

    Mux 2

    3 HD channel and 10 radio stations (RTÉ 1+2, TV3)

    Is this possible? Assuming RTÉ 1+1 is taken of the air.


  • #1054
    watty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,461 ✭✭✭✭watty


    They will spilt HD evenly between the mux. Gives better capacity.


  • #1055
    Teddy455
    Closed Accounts Posts: 181 ✭✭Teddy455


    Does anyone know if the programs from TRTÉ (for older children and teens) will be on RTÉjr or will it just air programs for 6 unders?


  • #1056
    Elmo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    Teddy455 wrote: »
    Does anyone know if the programs from TRTÉ (for older children and teens) will be on RTÉjr or will it just air programs for 6 unders?

    RTÉjr is for Under6s it will air from 7am to 1pm and then it will repeat the same from 1 to 7.

    TRTÉ will remain on RTÉ Two.


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  • #1057
    Elmo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    watty wrote: »
    They will spilt HD evenly between the mux. Gives better capacity.

    Thanks.

    So possibly

    Mux 1+2 2HD, 3SD and 10radio?


  • #1058
    Apogee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,899 ✭✭✭Apogee


    watty wrote: »
    They will spilt HD evenly between the mux. Gives better capacity.

    The recent order would appear to indicate that all HD material will be on the second mux - a follow-on from the legislation (at least in the eyes of the mandarins in DCENR).

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=70845167&postcount=40


  • #1059
    Elmo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    Apogee wrote: »
    The recent order makes it clear that all HD material will be on the second mux - that appears the be a follow-on from the legislation.

    So we should expect the following?

    MUX 1

    TG4 HD
    3e
    RTÉ News Now
    RTÉ Jr
    OTV (as per Broadcasting Act)
    IFB (as per Broadcasting Act)
    BAI PSB Channel

    10 RTÉ Radio stations

    MUX 2
    RTÉ 1 HD
    RTÉ 2 HD
    TV3 HD
    10 Commerical Radio satations

    Or something similar? Not that I would expect too much.


  • #1060
    watty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,461 ✭✭✭✭watty


    Apogee wrote: »
    The recent order would appear to indicate that all HD material will be on the second mux - a follow-on from the legislation (at least in the eyes of the mandarins in DCENR).

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=70845167&postcount=40

    No I don't think it says that at all. If it does, that is stupid.


  • #1061
    The Cush
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,092 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    It would be possible to carry 4 HD channels on a mux i.e. 4 x 6 Mbps (24 Mbps) but when you add in multiplex management data (approx 1Mbps) and MHEG-5 data for the 3 broadcasters (approx 3 Mbps) this would be at the expense of bit rate availability for the HD channels.

    So as watty says mixed SD/HD might be a more efficient use of the available capacity.


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  • #1062
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    Jebus Cush..6mbit HD channels seem a tad anorexic ....what what!!


  • #1063
    Apogee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,899 ✭✭✭Apogee


    watty wrote: »
    No I don't think it says that at all. If it does, that is stupid.

    Of course it's stupid, but why else require RTE to put RTE2HD on the second mux?


  • #1064
    The Cush
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,092 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    Jebus Cush..6mbit HD channels seem a tad anorexic ....what what!!

    Indeed, this from RTÉ
    Capacity Required for HD and SD Services

    The following technical specifications are being proposed by RTÉNL and are subject to
    contract negotiations with broadcasters.

    Statistical multiplexing will be used for all video services, audio and data services are fixed bit
    rate. It is planned to use the following bit rates as part of a statistical multiplexed pool.

    High Definition Video (HD)
    1 Minimum of 2.0 Mbps
    2 Maximum of 9.0 Mbps
    3 Weighting 90%
    4 Resolution 1440 x 1080i
    5 Expected average bit rate 6.0 Mbps

    Standard Definition Video (SD)
    • Minimum of 1.0 Mbps
    • Maximum of 8.0 Mbps
    • Weighting 90%
    • Resolution 544 x 576
    • Expected average bit rate 2.0 Mbps

    Audio HD and/or SD
    • Main program audio 192 kbps (stereo)
    • Secondary program audio 96 kbps (mono), if required.
    • Access services 96 kbps (mono), if required.

    In total, therefore, including audio and video c. 6.3 Mbps will be required for a HD service, and c.
    2.3 Mbps for a SD service. The requirement can vary and capacity will be dynamically allocated
    depending on the type of programming being transmitted at any particular time.

    Allocation of Resources
    RTÉ Two HD Select will require c. 6.3 Mbps, representing 27% of the available capacity on
    PSB MUX 1 (23 Mbps) and 14% of the total available PSB MUX capacity (46 Mbps). RTÉ
    Two SD would require c. 2.6 Mbps, 11% of the available PSB MUX 1 capacity and 5% of the
    total available PSB MUX capacity. Therefore, RTÉ Two HD Select will require an additional
    c. 3.7 Mbps of capacity, above what would have been required by the RTÉ Two SD service it
    will replace. Post Analogue Switch-off (ASO), there will be no requirement for an RTÉ Two
    SD service should RTÉ Two HD Select be approved. RTÉ Two (SD) will continue to be
    available on Analogue Terrestrial Television (ATT) until ASO. After ASO, RTÉ Two HD Select
    will be available in HD to those households with the necessary equipment, while the same
    channel will appear in standard definition to those with standard equipment.

    This courtesy of Apogee
    Apogee wrote: »
    Some interesting snippets:

    rates.jpg

    In Spain the major broadcasters are rolling out HD versions of their channels using 6-7 Mbps which is being regarded as HD without the H. Latest HD ruling from Spain - http://www.advanced-television.tv/index.php/2011/02/14/spain-rules-on-hdtv/


  • #1065
    STB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,178 ✭✭✭STB


    Apogee wrote: »
    Of course it's stupid, but why else require RTE to put RTE2HD on the second mux?

    To keep them honest ? More likely, to ensure equal optimization.

    I reckon, it would be easy for RTE to fill up Mux 1 with their own content and dump the rest on the second mux because of "timing" issues. RTE would have effectively had a fully fired up mux for their own stuff on the best first mux frequencies.

    Remember whilst RTE 2 HD will be fairly immediate, the rest wont be.

    And no, the second mux will not ALL the HD stations. I dont how you read it that way. In time, HD will be evenly split over the 2.


  • #1066
    Apogee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,899 ✭✭✭Apogee


    STB wrote: »
    To keep them honest ? More likely, to ensure equal optimization.

    What is "equal optimization"? There is nothing optimal in spreading channels over 2 muxes when 1 would suffice.
    STB wrote: »
    I reckon, it would be easy for RTE to fill up Mux 1 with their own content and dump the rest on the second mux because of "timing" issues. RTE would have effectively had a fully fired up mux for their own stuff on the best first mux frequencies.

    So they'll be forced into using a second mux in order to accommodate 3rd party channels which may never appear.

    STB wrote: »
    And no, the second mux will not ALL the HD stations. I dont how you read it that way.

    From the justification for 2 mux decision in Cush's post
    DECNR wrote:
    RTÉ Two HD Select

    High Definition (HD) channels provide better quality pictures than Standard
    Definition (SD) TV. In promulgating the relevant provisions of the Broadcasting Act 2009, the Minister was aware that an upgrade to HD was an essential requirement for national broadcasters and provided for an additional multiplex to be made available to RTÉ to ensure adequate capacity for the upgrade and carriage of the terrestrial TV channels in HD- RTÉ One, RTÉ Two, TG4 and, subject to the provisions of section 130(10), TV3.


  • #1067
    STB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,178 ✭✭✭STB


    EO. There is no point in having 1 mux fully tested and optimized with the best Mux frequencies for RTE services only and then a second mux not so.

    The second mux is required space wise accross two muxes as ALL 4 will be in HD eventually. For that reason and the fact that there will be extra channels, a second mux will be required.

    5/6 x 4 HD channels = a full mux anyway. They will be forced to a second mux for that reason alone.

    Again your reading of giving RTE a specific second mux for HD services only is wrong and speculative. The second mux will be required for all services across the 2 muxes because of 4 HD channels and extra RTE/ other channels.

    Its does not mean that one is specifically for HD alone.

    "adequate capacity" is across 2 muxes.

    Heres a question for you. How do you make people switch to DTT ?


  • #1068
    Apogee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,899 ✭✭✭Apogee


    STB wrote: »
    EO. There is no point in having 1 mux fully tested and optimized with the best Mux frequencies for RTE services only and then a second mux not so.

    They've tested and optimized the second muxes over the past few months.
    STB wrote: »
    The second mux is required space wise accross two muxes as ALL 4 will be in HD eventually. For that reason and the fact that there will be extra channels, a second mux will be required.

    Require eventually. What was technically wrong with RTÉ orignal plan for using one mux?
    STB wrote: »
    Again your reading of giving RTE a specific second mux for HD services only is wrong and speculative. The second mux will be required for all services across the 2 muxes because of 4 HD channels and extra RTE/ other channels.

    Its does not mean that one is specifically for HD alone.

    "adequate capacity" is across 2 muxes.

    So again why did they use this phraseology when justifying the 2 mux requirement?
    DECNR wrote:
    In promulgating the relevant provisions of the Broadcasting Act 2009, the Minister was aware that an upgrade to HD was an essential requirement for national broadcasters and provided for an additional multiplex to be made available to RTÉ to ensure adequate capacity for the upgrade and carriage of the terrestrial TV channels in HD- RTÉ One, RTÉ Two, TG4 and, subject to the provisions of section 130(10), TV3.

    They mention both capacity and carriage. They are interperting the legislation as requiring HD material to be carried on the second mux. They do not provide any other justification for carrying RTÉ2HD on the second mux.

    It likely they're using this codology to ease the entry of 3rd parties. But the end result is the same - HD on the second mux.


  • #1069
    Apogee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,899 ✭✭✭Apogee


    STB wrote: »
    How do you make people switch to DTT ?

    Well, if you're the DCENR, you get RTÉ to change their plans at the last minute and force them to use a second mux, wasting money, when one would be sufficient and thereby delay the transmission of live HD sport.


  • #1070
    Elmo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    Is there a 3rd of 4th PBS Mux?


  • #1071
    Sponge Bob
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    2 PSB and 4 commercial muxes...for now.


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  • #1072
    Elmo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    2 PSB and 4 commercial muxes...for now.

    Sorry I should have added to that question after ASO.


  • #1073
    STB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,178 ✭✭✭STB


    Apogee.

    I love your conspiracy theories.

    Again my understanding is that the second mux is not for specific carriage of HD ONLY. HD carriage will be across both Muxes.

    Optimization. The first Mux is available on ALL sites currently on using the best planned frequencies. It may be that the second mux frequencies arent available at all or any of the fill ins just now.

    The answer to the question by the way was..... Higher quality and more content makes DSO appealing.


  • #1074
    Apogee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,899 ✭✭✭Apogee


    STB wrote: »
    Apogee.

    I love your conspiracy theories.

    Again my understanding is that the second mux is not for specific carriage of HD ONLY. HD carriage will be across both Muxes.


    So the DECNR are lying in their justification then?
    STB wrote:
    Optimization. T]he first Mux is available on ALL sites currently on using the best planned frequencies. It may be that the second mux frequencies arent available at all or any of the fill ins just now.

    Where's your evidence for this?
    STB wrote:
    The answer to the question by the way was..... Higher quality and more content makes DSO appealing.

    Did the DCENR mention anything about minimum bitrates or quality?


  • #1075
    STB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,178 ✭✭✭STB


    No I wouldnt think DCENR are lying. I would think that you have mis-interpreted that statement though.

    Simply put the present mux could not cope with 4 HD stations, nevermind a mixture of new SD and HD channels. You dont need to do bit rate calculations to figure that out.

    The PSB mux - 64QAM @ 24mb/s. However, the MPEG-4/AVC standard which we use can enable 3 HD services to be coded into a 24 Mb/s channel. All fine if you only had 3 HD channels. As it is we have a compression squeeze with 1 HD channel.

    And why would you have all HD content on one mux. How would that effect viewing of the other mux ? The PSB1 channels after a lot of testing one could say are optimized. To my knowledge, the 2nd mux frequencies are not fully tested at the fill ins.

    RTE are also proposing new content are they not ?


  • #1076
    Apogee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,899 ✭✭✭Apogee


    STB wrote: »
    No I wouldnt think DCENR are lying. I would think that you have mis-interpreted that statement though.

    Simply put the present mux could not cope with 4 HD stations, nevermind a mixture of new SD and HD channels. You dont need to do bit rate calculations to figure that out.

    Who suggested putting 4x HD channels on the first mux?

    STB wrote: »
    And why would you have all HD content on one mux. How would that effect viewing of the other mux ? The PSB1 channels after a lot of testing one could say are optimized.

    If they are "optimized" why not leave things are they are and as planned all along by RTÉ? What is the technical merit in now moving RTÉ2HD to the second mux at the very last minute?


    STB wrote: »
    RTE are also proposing new channels are they not ?

    RTÉ have outlined a perfectly logical, efficient plan whereby the initial set of channels can fit on one mux. When they launch additional SD or HD channels, then they can use the second mux. When (or if) 3rd party FTA channels get the go ahead and are ready to be transmitted, they can also be put on the second mux.


  • #1077
    ftakeith
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,251 ✭✭✭ftakeith


    Apogee wrote: »
    Who suggested putting 4x HD channels on the first mux?




    If they are "optimized" why not leave things are they are and as planned all along by RTÉ? What is the technical merit in now moving RTÉ2HD to the second mux at the very last minute?





    RTÉ have outlined a perfectly logical, efficient plan whereby the initial set of channels can fit on one mux. When they launch additional SD or HD channels, then they can use the second mux. When (or if) 3rd party FTA channels get the go ahead and are ready to be transmitted, they can also be put on the second mux.

    http://www.saorview.ie/channels.html

    http://www.freesat.co.uk/what-you-get/our-channels

    I think the saorview content is sorted now

    As for UK tv fta just get freesat

    for most irish people that have basic UPC analogue/digital tv they would be happy with a combo freesat/saorview for their tv pleasures

    all these predictions about muxes 1 & 2 etc, it is only going to be the irish terrestrial tv channels in sd/hd versions


  • #1078
    Joe7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 74 ✭✭Joe7


    ftakeith wrote: »
    I think the saorview content is sorted now
    As for UK tv fta just get freesat . . .
    . . . all these predictions about muxes 1 & 2 etc, it is only going to be the irish terrestrial tv channels in sd/hd versions

    You're obviously the inside man . . .


  • #1079
    Elmo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,641 ✭✭✭✭Elmo


    ftakeith wrote: »
    all these predictions about muxes 1 & 2 etc, it is only going to be the irish terrestrial tv channels in sd/hd versions

    Since RTÉ News Now and 3e are available on Saorview this is not the case.

    RTÉ will also add RTÉ 1+1 and RTÉjr in May sometime.


  • #1080
    Apogee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,899 ✭✭✭Apogee


    The Cush wrote: »
    Did anyone read the submissions to the consultation which was published on the Dept website this week (doesn't appear to be available at the moment). The Sunday Times article appears to be based on some of the submissions incl Sky, TV3, NNI.

    I sense from the Sky submisssion they feel a threat from DTT/Saorsat and want to ensure that any promotion of RTÉ services include Sky.

    It's just the usual Comreg type consultation with a bunch of vested interests moaning and whinging and whose only worry is their own bottom lines, dressed up as faux concern for "consumer choice" or some other such rubbish.

    http://www.dcenr.gov.ie/NR/rdonlyres/1F85220F-B727-49C2-B34D-12AB767CAD07/0/submissionstoPVTConsultationDocumentfin.pdf


    It really takes the biscuit that Sky are allowed input into this. Not only are they completely unregulated by any Irish body, but they don't even pay bloody VAT to the exchequer. Unsurprisingly, they're whinging about Saorsat - no doubt afraid that it will lose them subscriptions.

    bitching.jpg


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  • #1081
    excollier
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,576 ✭✭✭excollier


    Who are Sky anyway?
    I seem to remember BSB some time ago:rolleyes:


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