Saorview Content Speculation

Sponge Bob

For some weird reason reading about this putrid soup of incompetent and self important buck passing between BAI/DCENR/RTENL/Comreg ...(and apart from reminding me why this country is destroyed) also made me think of this classic tune with the title changed to "3 Quangos"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AULD36vLOr0

Elmo

Sponge Bob wrote: »

For some weird reason reading about this putrid soup of incompetent and self important buck passing between BAI/DCENR/RTENL/Comreg ...(and apart from reminding me why this country is destroyed) also made me think of this classic tune with the title changed to "3 Quangos"

Oh wait so it wasn't the banks or the developers. Sorry mods have to get that in there. DCENR isn't a quango it actually a fully fledged government organisations (Rule one always pass the buck, rule 2 always pass the buck and rule 3 MAKE SURE THE MINISTER MENTIONS THE QUANGOS), while RTÉ is a semi-state body.

watty

What is BAI and Comreg then

warlikedave

watty wrote: »

yes, and if RTENL/Arquiva/BBC make a mistake, it's the responsibility of Comreg and Ofcom to spot it before agreement of frequencies.



The buck stops with Comreg. Not RTE NL or RTE.

The items in Italics are misleading!
Anyone can talk to anyone about channels & Frequencies. I have done it myself Internationally. Comreg makes 100% of the decisions for Ireland.

The BAI ultimately ONLY handles licence to carry content for Transmissions originating in Ireland. BAI can licence content for Satellite uplinks in Ireland (but not the channels used). BAI can Issue TV station or Radio station or TV/Radio platform Licences, (Boxer, Newstalk etc) and Comreg licences the channel(s) to use. Comreg exclusively negotiates Spectrum and licences it in Ireland. BAI may wish to enlarge their empire, but in reality they have no International Authority. They can't do anything about any Foreign based Transmission or Content, even if it can be received in Ireland via Dish or Aerial.

I doubt they can even Regulate the price of pay TV sold in Ireland or what it's content is if it's uplinked outside Ireland and Transmitted from outside Ireland.

If you create a Satellite or Terrestrial Station with Transmitter outside Ireland and uplinked outside Ireland, then Comreg or BAI have no control at all. UK, or Spain or wherever you based will regulate you, even if your content is 100% beamed and sold in Ireland.
I don't believe BAI has any authority to make MOU. The UK/Ireland MOU was between Irish and UK Governments. The Irish government can I suppose give BAI the authority to administer the content of any Transmissions in Ireland relating to MOU.

The BAI has no authority to make or enforce International Agreements, or control content of Foreign Broadcasts.

Misleading maybe but that is what was said by a rep of comreg. Still i agree that it does look like it is buck passing exercise to an extent especially in terms to the initial decision of the channels allocated and the role each party played in this especially the (lack of - in my opinion) communication between each countries communications regulators in regards to channel allocation

So much for trying to get a perspective from the view of comreg :P

watty

The EU wanted to abolish National regulators and only have an EU one BECAUSE of the poor communication (ironic) and especially obstructive nature of Ofcom (supported Mobile Operators instead of Consumers in regard of Roaming charges).

I don't know what they think of Comreg.

Elmo

watty wrote: »

What is BAI and Comreg then

No they are Quangos

The EU wanted to abolish National regulators and only have an EU one BECAUSE of the poor communication (ironic) and especially obstructive nature of Ofcom (supported Mobile Operators instead of Consumers in regard of Roaming charges).

The AVWF is looking for more self regulation BTW. This is why the BAI are investigating such things as Product Placement, Political Advertising etc etc

Elmo

Digital Switch Off Report on Six One in a few minutes time

http://www.rte.ie/player/#l=7

Elmo

http://www.rte.ie/news/money/general/free-digital-tv-service-to-launch-in-ireland.html

galtee boy

With May only weeks away, wouldn't it be time to see some testing etc of the Saorview EPG ( as in the Saorview Mheg5 generated epg and not the tv's own epg ) ? I remember there being some testing of it way back last year sometime, but as far as I can tell, it hasn't been seen since.

watty

no. Not needed.

The whole point of MHEG5 is to be able to change services AT ANY TIME, not just at launch of service or specification as with upgrades since 1955 such as

• Band III (first set boxes)
• 625 Line (early sets dual standard)
• Colour
• Teletext
• Nicam
• Pal Plus (a method of sending extra resolution in the letterboxing on PAL 4:3 so real WS TVs could do nearly proper Widescreen).

All those needed new hardware and "fixed in stone" at launch.

DVB-T, MPEG4, HE-AAC and the rest of Nordig used for Saorview is "mostly set in stone", though with OTA (Over the air updates of Firmware) for Certified sets, you can change things a little, but not add DVB-T2, as that needs extra hardware.

Unlike EBU teletext which was originally fixed hardware and fixed in style and interface, MHEG5 isn't about text pages at all. It's a virtual machine (computer) that executes MHEG5 programs. The programs (MHEG5 applications) are transmitted slowly and continuously on the Multiplex, and the TV receives and stores them while you are watching. The "text" button launches the default "text" application, if there is one for the channel, and then it reads the transmitted text data (like Teletext Hardware reading and displaying text).

RTE can define any applications to launch from any page on the text, or any of the 4 coloured buttons when watching TV. These applications can use ethernet data, local cached data, video channels or streams (even one part of mosaic page) and control PVR and TV features. MHEG is a rich multimedia programming language. Even real time interactive games like PacMan, Tetris or Click & point adventure with streamed video cut scenes can be done.

The main MHEG5 development company has recently released a new EPG application written in MHEG5. RTE could use that, or write their own or hire a company to write one.

The existing text application with video in corner doesn't have to stay the way that it is.

It's a pity ethernet and/or WiFi is not a mandatory part of spec, but it's likely that there will be MHEG5 interface to RTE player eventually for sets that have got an Internet connection of some kind.

Machinehead

Just noticed aspect ratio on ch.7 Temp has gone from 16:9 to 4:3. Also 2nd mux from Mulla ch 24 on again and really strong.

glimmerman123

Machinehead wrote: »

Just noticed aspect ratio on ch.7 Temp has gone from 16:9 to 4:3. Also 2nd mux from Mulla ch 24 on again and really strong.

Any new tests on mux 2 or just a copy of mux 1?

Machinehead

It's a clone of the mux on ch.21, nothing new. My Panasonic still can't see/find the unnamed channel that appeared last week.

STB

Karsini wrote: »

Umm, Ofcom won't be happy with that, it would surely make things worse in Wales.

Umm, Ofcom dont licence frequencies in Ireland.

I wouldnt think the PSB Mux operator is happy either Karsini that overspill is apparently whacking in to a frequency allocated to Ireland under the ITU agreement in 2006.

Mt Leinster will most likely up its power. Turning down the massive gain that people have on their aerials and facing the aerials away from Wales and towards their "local" transmitters will avoid any interference especially during atmospheric pressure.

STB

STB wrote: »

umm, Ofcom dont licence frequencies in Ireland.

Umm, I wouldnt think the PSB Mux operator is happy that overspill is whacking in to a frequency allocated to Ireland under the ITU agreement in 2006.

Mt Leinster will most likely up its power. Turning down the massive gain that people have on their aerials and facing the aerials away from Wales and towards their "local" transmitters will avoid any interference especially during atmospheric pressure.

No they don't, but they surely have a right to manage their own frequencies and increasing the potential for Irish DTT to overpower Welsh services in Wales is not on. It happened already at some stage.

Whoever in the ITU thought it was a good idea to assign 45 to Mount Leinster obviously doesn't have a clue.

STB

Karsini wrote: »

No they don't, but they surely have a right to manage their own frequencies and increasing the potential for Irish DTT to overpower Welsh services in Wales is not on. It happened already at some stage.

Whoever in the ITU thought it was a good idea to assign 45 to Mount Leinster obviously doesn't have a clue.

The reality of Welsh DTT overpowering Irish services is Comreg and RTE's primary concern I would imagine.

Would you suggest we give up the broadcasting sovereignty and associated spectrum to the UK and scrap Ge06 ?

Absolutely not, bit dramatic don't you think?

I'd suggest not using the same channel in nearby areas, there's virtually nothing blocking Mount Leinster from Presley. The same was done in Listowel and Knockmoyle (Tralee) analogue, meaning that it's impossible to get good analogue RTÉ reception in any area where both signals can be picked up. I know because I lived in one of these areas.

If the frequency planning had been done better there would have been no need for the Arklow relay and possibly the Gorey one.

STB

Karsini wrote: »

Absolutely not, bit dramatic don't you think?

I'd suggest not using the same channel in nearby areas, there's virtually nothing blocking Mount Leinster from Presley. The same was done in Listowel and Knockmoyle (Tralee) analogue, meaning that it's impossible to get good analogue RTÉ reception in any area where both signals can be picked up. I know because I lived in one of these areas.

If the frequency planning had been done better there would have been no need for the Arklow relay and possibly the Gorey one.

What is dramatic ? That I am debating with another Irish person the merits of Ireland stepping down in a mexican standoff over a frequency allocated to Ireland ?

I think that the reception of the PSB in high percentages of Ireland is RTENL's concern. The Irish public will after all, demand such reception! From Wexford to Donegal etc..... They have statutory requirements to fulfill under the Broadcasting Act 2009.

I dont know if you have ever heard of the allotments vs assignments debate but it was discussed in Geneva in 2006 - Assignment define all technical characteristics including site, power etc. Mt Leinster isnt operating at full capacity afaik.

STB

STB wrote: »

Would you suggest we give up the broadcasting sovereignty and associated spectrum to the UK and scrap Ge06 ?

This was what I said was dramatic.

Mount Leinster doesn't affect me personally as I get reception from Three Rock so I'm speaking out due to a general interest in broadcasting. I just feel that if there's other frequencies available for use that will not cause interference then these should be used instead.

I wasn't specifically defending viewers in Wales but I was referring to this article, and pointing out that an increase in power could possibly make this situation worse. Not to mention increasing RTÉNL's electricity costs solely to make more noise on an already noisy channel.

A simple frequency change (to another of Mount Leinster's assigned channels) could be the difference between someone being able to use their existing aerial for Saorview, or having to get Saorsat. Some could (out of lack of knowledge or experience) even fall into the Sky trap.

The Cush

STB wrote: »

Mt Leinster isnt operating at full capacity afaik.

Was it watty or someone else here who posted after the RTÉ presentation to the ISAA at the end of Feb that power was to be increased at Mt Leinster and that any change to Ch 45 wouldn't happen until post 2012?

Can't find the relevant post, the new search isn't working properly.

STB

Karsini wrote: »

This was what I said was dramatic.

Mount Leinster doesn't affect me personally as I get reception from Three Rock so I'm speaking out due to a general interest in broadcasting. I just feel that if there's other frequencies available for use that will not cause interference then these should be used instead.

I wasn't specifically defending viewers in Wales but I was referring to this article, and pointing out that an increase in power could possibly make this situation worse. Not to mention increasing RTÉNL's electricity costs solely to make more noise on an already noisy channel.

A simple frequency change (to another of Mount Leinster's assigned channels) could be the difference between someone being able to use their existing aerial for Saorview, or having to get Saorsat. Some could (out of lack of knowledge or experience) even fall into the Sky trap.

But many "other" Irish local people will be dependant on Mt Leinster! The purpose of GE06 was to maximise the spectrum available to Ireland to accommodate the development of among other things, DTT.

Sorry Karsini but I doubt that Ireland will be giving up the frequency because a few people in another country dependant on a small low powered fill in transmitter are picking up Mt Leinster with obviously high gain aerials ! The article did point to other factors as to why reception of Freeview services is bad in those areas. That is Freeviews problem I would suspect. We are dealing with a side issue in Wexford whereby people are using high gain combined aerials pointed at Wales are wondering why they experience all kinds of interference! All madness really. Amateur entuasiasts may get a buzz out of it.

Since you asked the question about the ITU in 2006, have a read of this. Its short and a good overview.

http://www.broadcastpapers.com/whitepapers/paper_loader.cfm?pid=832

I am sure the Irish will sort out the Irish coverage problems and Freeview will sort out their own reception issues and there may be a coordinated approach in time if required. No doubt after analogue tx's are powered off. I suspect that is the reason Mt Leinster hasnt been at fulll capacity.

warlikedave

The Cush wrote: »

Was it watty or someone else here who posted after the RTÉ presentation to the ISAA at the end of Feb that power was to be increased at Mt Leinster and that any change to Ch 45 wouldn't happen until post 2012?

Can't find the relevant post, the new search isn't working properly.

I had a convo with a member representing comreg. He did indicate that channel 45 on mount leinster is here to stay and 39 will be used for the second batch of channels. Also he did indicate that mount leinster is currently not at full power but he said that rtenl will have the final call on that and i should comfirm this with rtenl. I am still awaiting feedback from rtenl (4 weeks and counting)

This info is what i was told altho it has been abbreviated into a comcise and accurate manner

Personally it is a bad call for ch45 to be used and even if it is boosted and only effects a few in wales it still is an issue which could have been avoided...they could have allocated ch45 to another transmitter an given mount leinster a different allocation. I do know that the reason stated by the member of comreg also included the fact that ch 45 was the best for garenteeing coverage in the mount leinster coverage map...that was stated. Would another channel be as efficient as 45 for the wexford wiklow carlow area? Even if it has co channel interferrence issueswith preslie and taking into account the geogrpahical features of mount leinsters coverage area?

Gerry Wicklow

3 of the 4 main DTT channels allocated to Mt Leinster conflict with Presely. Clever or what?

warlikedave

Gerry Wicklow wrote: »

3 of the 4 main DTT channels allocated to Mt Leinster conflict with Presely. Clever or what?

Not the clever move indeed but its hard to ascertain the exact reasons why they went with those channels. Provide feedback to comreg and/or rtenl if ye want to. I doubt we could ever change it but maybe with enough feedback they might do something....heres hoping lol

Cantona's Collars

Rumours in the cable forum that Saorview will be showing ITV2 etc. now that UPC have lost them,anyone able to substantiate those rumours?

I doubt this will happen,TV3 have caused enough trouble over saorview and this would cause ruptions with them.

Elmo

zerks wrote: »

Rumours in the cable forum that Saorview will be showing ITV2 etc. now that UPC have lost them,anyone able to substantiate those rumours?

I doubt this will happen,TV3 have caused enough trouble over saorview and this would cause ruptions with them.

Yeah I have also heard this that ITV plan a huge investment into Irish TV. TV3 have are up in arms and UTV has welcomed the move. ITV's Corronation Street licence was covering 3E repeats but TV3 refused to broadcast it on the channel thus ITV have choosen to put ITV2 on Saorview and remove their ITV content from TV3. This may lead to ITV1 airing on Saorview as ITV1 Ireland.

Fingleberries

Elmo wrote: »

Yeah I have also heard this that ITV plan a huge investment into Irish TV. TV3 have are up in arms and UTV has welcomed the move. ITV's Corronation Street licence was covering 3E repeats but TV3 refused to broadcast it on the channel thus ITV have choosen to put ITV2 on Saorview and remove their ITV content from TV3. This may lead to ITV1 airing on Saorview as ITV1 Ireland.

Would be interesting if this were to come about. Is there any sources for this, or just speculation as McRedmond and Co. are particularly noisy and dragging their heels on the Saorview thing?

Elmo

Fingleberries wrote: »

Would be interesting if this were to come about. Is there any sources for this, or just speculation as McRedmond and Co. are particularly noisy and dragging their heels on the Saorview thing?

Sources are few and far between I have spent most of the morning looking and can't find any. We are going to be subjected to TV3 repeats, Ireland AM Evening is to replace Corronation Street while Midday Review replaces Emmerdale. :eek:

While TV3 have announced that Jedward are taking over Vincent Browne Tonight!

How long do you think we can keep this up?

glimmerman123

I was reading on another thread that ITV 2 3 and four were taken off UPC on the 31st of March because both parties could not come to an arrangement to renew the carriage deal and also a deal has been done with another Irish broadcaster to carry the channels. It also states that the other broadcaster is BSkyB. Can we class BSkB as an Irish broadcaster or a foreign one? I think this is just speculation. We will know soon enough when the BAI publish the names of the parties of interest who maybe interested in joining Saorview.

Fingleberries

glimmerman123 wrote: »

I was reading on another thread that ITV 2 3 and four were taken off UPC on the 31st of March because both parties could not come to an arrangement to renew the carriage deal and also a deal has been done with another Irish broadcaster to carry the channels. It also states that the other broadcaster is BSkyB. Can we class BSkB as an Irish broadcaster or a foreign one? I think this is just speculation. We will know soon enough when the BAI publish the names of the parties of interest who maybe interested in joining Saorview.

This article seems to mention it, but not specifically SaorView or BSkyB - http://www.tvtrade.ie/blog/upc-lose-itv2-itv3-itv4-still-on-free-to-air-freesat/ - I guess we'll see.