Depression

LadyMayBelle · 30-12-2010 11:19PM

Deleted User wrote: »

It's absolutely ridiculous that sometimes the only person people can talk to is their GP. Of course they're going to prescribe medication, I highly doubt most know anything about counselling.

Anywhere I have worked, they referred/refer people who they felt needed/who had requested someone to talk to, to the social workers. I am lucky in that I have a doc who listens but so many, don't. Good thread OP, I am only sorry I found it now and have a good few pages to read thru to catch up.

31-12-2010 12:18AM

What I found with a lot of GPs (and is the reason behind people not getting the morning after pill, which is another completely backward and idiotic system in this country, but that's another thread) is that a lot of people won't go to them to talk about these things because, in some cases, they'd know the family fairly well and would have known them since children.

Darlughda · 31-12-2010 12:35AM

A critical factor in any succesful treatment of depression (that I think seems to be overlooked in this thread), is the actuall counselling/ pschotherapy and/or talk therapy.

This seems to be shakey at best.

Although I have an excellent GP, the only counsellor/psycholanast she could refer me to charges €150 per session!

One of my outstanding issues is my long term illness which has meant that I am in the social welfare budget for the last 10 years.

Unfortunately, my experience with the HSE has not been good.
Very determined to stick to their criterion of what is wrong with someone, and then if you are using a substance, for example alcohol, to deal with acute loneliness, they will refuse to see you until you have been 6 weeks-3 months abstinent!

Even within those strict criteria, if you manage to stick to them, the assumption is if you are isolated and alone, for example, there is obviously something wrong with you, and you get some ineffectual behavioural cognitive therapy, that is sweet fcuk all use if this has been a long term situation developing over a period of 20 years due to circumstances and aspects of the personality that actually do not need therapy, but rather affirmation and building of self-esteem.

Unfortunately, in my experience these are the good ones.

As the counselling industry is not yet regulated properly, I have also come across the most unbelievable chancers. Some are well meaning, but in way more need of therapy than their clients. Yet happy to accept huge amounts from desperate clients for 'listening' for an hour.

Empowering an individual to realiase their own choices and decisions is one thing, but it should not be an excuse for these 'counsellors' and 'therapists' to take huge amounts of money from a desperate person each week, or fortnightly.

People who seeks counsellors NEED decent nuggets of wisdom, or practical solutions or skills in how to deal with problems, they do not need to be at the very costly end of yet more clichés that worn out friends have already imparted.

Sardonicat · 31-12-2010 01:11AM

Darlughda wrote: »

Even within those strict criteria, if you manage to stick to them, the assumption is if you are isolated and alone, for example, there is obviously something wrong with you, and you get some ineffectual behavioural cognitive therapy,
As the counselling industry is not yet regulated properly, I have also come across the most unbelievable chancers. Some are well meaning, but in way more need of therapy than their clients. Yet happy to accept huge amounts from desperate clients for 'listening' for an hour.

Ain't that the truth! Who'd have thought that The University of Craggy Island would churn out so many graduates from its Psychology Department?

t0mm13b · 31-12-2010 01:13AM

Deleted User wrote: »

It's absolutely ridiculous that sometimes the only person people can talk to is their GP. Of course they're going to prescribe medication, I highly doubt most know anything about counselling.

That's a good point to make.... but face this, GP's are more of on the front line in terms of accessibility, the psychiatry/psychology "departments" are inaccessible to the public in that YOU have to go to your GP FIRST before you get a referral... now this part, seems to appear to me, a lot of "red-tape" and only gawd knows what else.....maybe the system is not fair on the GP's themselves who dish it out the happy-pills....

Darlughda wrote: »

A critical factor in any succesful treatment of depression (that I think seems to be overlooked in this thread), is the actuall counselling/ pschotherapy and/or talk therapy.

This seems to be shakey at best.

Although I have an excellent GP, the only counsellor/psycholanast she could refer me to charges €150 per session!

One of my outstanding issues is my long term illness which has meant that I am in the social welfare budget for the last 10 years.

Unfortunately, my experience with the HSE has not been good.
Very determined to stick to their criterion of what is wrong with someone, and then if you are using a substance, for example alcohol, to deal with acute loneliness, they will refuse to see you until you have been 6 weeks-3 months abstinent!

Even within those strict criteria, if you manage to stick to them, the assumption is if you are isolated and alone, for example, there is obviously something wrong with you, and you get some ineffectual behavioural cognitive therapy, that is sweet fcuk all use if this has been a long term situation developing over a period of 20 years due to circumstances and aspects of the personality that actually do not need therapy, but rather affirmation and building of self-esteem.

Unfortunately, in my experience these are the good ones.

As the counselling industry is not yet regulated properly, I have also come across the most unbelievable chancers. Some are well meaning, but in way more need of therapy than their clients. Yet happy to accept huge amounts from desperate clients for 'listening' for an hour.

Empowering an individual to realiase their own choices and decisions is one thing, but it should not be an excuse for these 'counsellors' and 'therapists' to take huge amounts of money from a desperate person each week, or fortnightly.

People who seeks counsellors NEED decent nuggets of wisdom, or practical solutions or skills in how to deal with problems, they do not need to be at the very costly end of yet more clichés that worn out friends have already imparted.

Again, that is a murky grey area here, have been to a few chancers who took advantage of my vulnerability with their so-called "wisdom" and believed them, which ended up nearly costing my life....

There is ZERO regulation on this.. like ffs, I heard on IRC (of whom I communicate regularly on), that someone "bought" a certificate - a diploma in psychology.... (ok, that is in the USA.....) need I say more on that.... :eek:

Now imagine that someone being here setting up a "practice" and ripping people off when they have no knowledge or experience..... that's the danger.... and they could charge any amount they like..... it's iffy.... because they make themselves appear to be so "accessible" and yet could end up mind-fcuking you around.... doing more damage than good....

t0mm13b · 31-12-2010 01:22AM

Deleted User wrote: »

What I found with a lot of GPs (and is the reason behind people not getting the morning after pill, which is another completely backward and idiotic system in this country, but that's another thread) is that a lot of people won't go to them to talk about these things because, in some cases, they'd know the family fairly well and would have known them since children.

Another point to make about the statement in bold....

GP's are bound to the patient confidentiality.... so there is zero to fear from that... so what... they cannot operate without the Hyppocratic(sp?) Oath... which is drummed into their brains from day one of training - keep the gob shut and do not discuss it....

I know of one GP (not naming names), who yaps and breaks patient confidentiality by discussing their patient's illness or situation....

Naikon · 31-12-2010 01:52AM

t0mm13b wrote: »

Another point to make about the statement in bold....

GP's are bound to the patient confidentiality.... so there is zero to fear from that... so what... they cannot operate without the Hyppocratic(sp?) Oath... which is drummed into their brains from day one of training - keep the gob shut and do not discuss it....

I know of one GP (not naming names), who yaps and breaks patient confidentiality by discussing their patient's illness or situation....

Who gives a **** about knowing the doctors family or whatever, the implications for being labelled "A Depressive" is the black mark that a person should be worried about. If you think your medical records are sealed/confidential, think again, please...

Naikon · 31-12-2010 02:01AM

t0mm13b wrote: »

That's a good point to make.... but face this, GP's are more of on the front line in terms of accessibility, the psychiatry/psychology "departments" are inaccessible to the public in that YOU have to go to your GP FIRST before you get a referral... now this part, seems to appear to me, a lot of "red-tape" and only gawd knows what else.....maybe the system is not fair on the GP's themselves who dish it out the happy-pills....

Again, that is a murky grey area here, have been to a few chancers who took advantage of my vulnerability with their so-called "wisdom" and believed them, which ended up nearly costing my life....

There is ZERO regulation on this.. like ffs, I heard on IRC (of whom I communicate regularly on), that someone "bought" a certificate - a diploma in psychology.... (ok, that is in the USA.....) need I say more on that.... :eek:

Now imagine that someone being here setting up a "practice" and ripping people off when they have no knowledge or experience..... that's the danger.... and they could charge any amount they like..... it's iffy.... because they make themselves appear to be so "accessible" and yet could end up mind-fcuking you around.... doing more damage than good....

Maybe an individual should come to the reasoning that alot of counselling out there is not fully regulated, therefore, the area is mostly a scam. Paying someone upwards of 100 euro to tell me to "reflect" on a situation is not likely to improve it. Real, severe depression is mainly biological. Mild Situational Depression is not in the same league as full blown Depression. Somehow, I doubt someone who thinks of suicide 10's of times a day, is likely to benefit from most counselling sessions out there. There comes a point where chemical intervention is required, and it's not for the Depression caused by breaking up with your girlfriend...

tigger123 · 31-12-2010 02:48AM

Judging by the amount of posts on this thread, maybe the Mod's might look at keeping this open, "stickied" or whatever. Posting stuff anonymously (user-names do not identify you!) might be a good way for people to start to talk about it.

I've been through a fair amount of ups and downs in my time (deaths, relationship break-ups), but I've NEVER felt as good as I did since last summer when I started to exercise regularly and monitor my diet, I cant speak highly enough of it, and "diet" includes alcohol.

t0mm13b · 31-12-2010 03:12AM

Naikon wrote: »

Who gives a **** about knowing the doctors family or whatever, the implications for being labelled "A Depressive" is the black mark that a person should be worried about. If you think your medical records are sealed/confidential, think again, please...

Can you clarify what you meant exactly by the underlined statement? Basically for the benefit of the thread - what makes you say that?

t0mm13b · 31-12-2010 03:30AM

tigger123 wrote: »

Judging by the amount of posts on this thread, maybe the Mod's might look at keeping this open, "stickied" or whatever. Posting stuff anonymously (user-names do not identify you!) might be a good way for people to start to talk about it.

I've been through a fair amount of ups and downs in my time (deaths, relationship break-ups), but I've NEVER felt as good as I did since last summer when I started to exercise regularly and monitor my diet, I cant speak highly enough of it, and "diet" includes alcohol.

This is where linking up alcohol with depression plays a HUGE factor and of course alcohol is a well-known depressant.... so what do you think should be done to prevent it.... this is where a social contributing factor comes in, which, alone that, would be a nightmare to re-inforce the message, depending on the situation, celebration of life/death, and other factors would and could and may imply having a drink....

so would it mean that the process of alcohol production have changed dramatically in such a way that 50/60 years ago, people got drunk but not depressed? I am just trying to put feelers out on this one... of course, environmental/social factors come into play here... yes and this is where the subject gets even more complicated (As a bit of OT - Diabetes/Obesity and related illnesses did not happen 50/60 years ago because the production of chemicals were "minimized" for want of a word - take an old fashioned slab of toffee... no one got diabetes.... just a thought.....)

Just something that is noticeable today..... what you think?

Novella · 31-12-2010 03:46AM

t0mm13b wrote: »

This is where linking up alcohol with depression plays a HUGE factor and of course alcohol is a well-known depressant.... so what do you think should be done to prevent it.... this is where a social contributing factor comes in, which, alone that, would be a nightmare to re-inforce the message, depending on the situation, celebration of life/death, and other factors would and could and may imply having a drink....

so would it mean that the process of alcohol production have changed dramatically in such a way that 50/60 years ago, people got drunk but not depressed? I am just trying to put feelers out on this one... of course, environmental/social factors come into play here... yes and this is where the subject gets even more complicated (As a bit of OT - Diabetes/Obesity and related illnesses did not happen 50/60 years ago because the production of chemicals were "minimized" for want of a word - take an old fashioned slab of toffee... no one got diabetes.... just a thought.....)

Just something that is noticeable today..... what you think?

Alcohol is a depressant in that it temporarily reduces or slows the function of the central nervous system. Sleeping tablets are also depressants, as are certain drugs used to treat epilepsy. I don't think 'depressant' means something that will make you depressed. I think the reason that people who are diagnosed as depressed are told not to drink alcohol is moreso due to the fact that when drunk, things which are not really a good idea seem great... self harm, suicide etc. Plus, with a higher pain tolerance when drunk, it is easier to do more damage to oneself.

Sea Sharp · 31-12-2010 03:51AM

Naikon wrote: »

Maybe an individual should come to the reasoning that alot of counselling out there is not fully regulated, therefore, the area is mostly a scam. Paying someone upwards of 100 euro to tell me to "reflect" on a situation is not likely to improve it. Real, severe depression is mainly biological. Mild Situational Depression is not in the same league as full blown Depression. Somehow, I doubt someone who thinks of suicide 10's of times a day, is likely to benefit from most counselling sessions out there. There comes a point where chemical intervention is required, and it's not for the Depression caused by breaking up with your girlfriend...

Is it though?
Granted, severe depression can be described as a chemical imbalance, but that chemical imbalance is caused by a person's lifestyle and/or relationships.
Medication corrects the imbalance. Counselling helps people identify what may be causing the imbalance.

Dean820 · 31-12-2010 03:57AM

I am really dreading tomorrow night. New Years Eve is usually the most depressing time of the year for me, personally. One of my friends bailed on me earlier tonight as well, we had previously made some plans which would of actually of been a laugh. I've another friend in Dublin but it could cost a fair bit traveling up. When that clock hits 12 and I look around its one of the worse feelings in the world.

t0mm13b · 31-12-2010 04:01AM

Dean820 wrote: »

I am really dreading tomorrow night. New Years Eve is usually the most depressing time of the year for me, personally. One of my friends bailed on me earlier tonight as well, we had previously made some plans which would of actually of been a laugh. I've another friend in Dublin but it could cost a fair bit traveling up. When that clock hits 12 and I look around its one of the worse feelings in the world.

Would you feel comfortable in explaining how you feel and why to help awareness....?

Naikon · 31-12-2010 04:01AM

Sea Sharp wrote: »

Is it though?
Granted, severe depression can be described as a chemical imbalance, but that chemical imbalance is caused by a person's lifestyle and/or relationships.
Medication corrects the imbalance. Counselling helps people identify what may be causing the imbalance.

Genetics play a bigger role in such cases though. Extreme depression is not caused simply because you broke up with your girlfriend. It's an evolutionary adaptation. Medication does not treat very severe depression, where invasive brain surgery and Electro convulsive bouts may be required.

Naikon · 31-12-2010 04:03AM

t0mm13b wrote: »

Can you clarify what you meant exactly by the underlined statement? Basically for the benefit of the thread - what makes you say that?

Ok, maybe not in the literal sense, but try applying to any big company or even negotiate a loan/insurance without a medical evaluation. Medical information and most information in general can be used against you these days imo. Try to get a one up on these ****ers, and disclose as little as possible. Alot of people want to step over one another to reach the top, metaphorically speaking that is...

t0mm13b · 31-12-2010 04:07AM

Naikon wrote: »

Ok maybe not in the literal sense, but try applying to any big company or even negotiate a loan/insurance without a medical evaluation. Medical information and most information can be used against you these days imo.

Yeah, probably, but would that not infringe on your right to privacy or leading to abuse of information for background checks or "blackmail" in a loosest sense of a word?

That seems to be heading into an area of where we're lead to believe Doctor/Patient confidentiality is rigorous when in reality is open to abuse..... :eek:

Naikon · 31-12-2010 04:13AM

t0mm13b wrote: »

Yeah, probably, but would that not infringe on your right to privacy or leading to abuse of information for background checks or "blackmail" in a loosest sense of a word?

That seems to be heading into an area of where we're lead to believe Doctor/Patient confidentiality is rigorous when in reality is open to abuse..... :eek:

As long as the information is factual and was obtained by proper means, blackmail does not come into the mix. Companies haven been known to disclose information to third parties PROVIDED the risk of a lawsuit is minimal/not costly. Companies hire "risk analyists" for a reason. I can't count on two hands the number of times I have seen bad computer usuage practice. myname123 IS NOT an acceptable password, EVER. Society in general needs to cop the **** on when it comes to IT/disclosure practices.

Sadly, Information is profit these days. Look at friendbook for example:D

Dean820 · 31-12-2010 04:14AM

t0mm13b wrote: »

Would you feel comfortable in explaining how you feel and why to help awareness....?

I'm not depressed every day or anything. It just seems to happen around my birthday and New Years which are close together date-wise. I think I get down because I feel like a total failure. I feel I should have finished college years ago and have a nice job now for myself by now.

Also, my best friend has kind of settled down with a girl for himself...I feel like he just dropped me. Like before when I wanted to go for a pint, I could text him any time and all I needed to say was the place and the time. It was the same for him, I always tried to be a good friend. I'm happy for him, I am. Its just his relationship is messing up my life indirectly. I only had a couple of great friends to begin with. My social life is not what it was because I only go out the odd time with my buddy from Dublin when he comes down. I guess its my own fault, I always chose to have just one of two really good friends rather than a big group.

I just feel alone and abandoned I guess. And useless.

Haven't had a conversation about this with anyone so felt good to just get it out there.

Naikon · 31-12-2010 04:19AM

Dean820 wrote: »

I'm not depressed every day or anything. It just seems to happen around my birthday and New Years which are close together date-wise. I think I get down because I feel like a total failure. I feel I should have finished college years ago and have a nice job now for myself by now.

Also, my best friend has kind of settled down with a girl for himself...I feel like he just dropped me. Like before when I wanted to go for a pint, I could text him any time and all I needed to say was the place and the time. It was the same for him, I always tried to be a good friend. I'm happy for him, I am. Its just his relationship is messing up my life indirectly. I only had a couple of great friends to begin with. My social life is not what it was because I only go out the odd time with my buddy from Dublin when he comes down. I guess its my own fault, I always chose to have just one of two really good friends rather than a big group.

I just feel alone and abandoned I guess. And useless. Just because you are in a rut, does not automatically qualify you the term "depressed individual".

Haven't had a conversation about this with anyone so felt good to just get it out there.

These reactions are normal, Clinical Depression, isn't.

Sea Sharp · 31-12-2010 04:31AM

Naikon wrote: »

Genetics play a bigger role in such cases though. Extreme depression is not caused simply because you broke up with your girlfriend. It's an evolutionary adaptation. Medication does not treat very severe depression, where invasive brain surgery and Electro convulsive bouts may be required.

You can't really say that a person is suffering from depression because they have a particular gene. The thing with the scientific studies that show links between depression and DNA is that these links are probabilistic.
Say for example:
Person A (no genes related to depression) and person B (has gene related to depression) go through life events X,Y & Z, then person A is 50% likely to develop depression while person B is 80% likely to develop depression.
Genetics effect the probability of you developing depression but, regardless of your DNA, it was events X,Y & Z that caused the depression.

Naikon · 31-12-2010 04:38AM

Sea Sharp wrote: »

You can't really say that a person is suffering from depression because they have a particular gene. The thing with the scientific studies that show links between depression and DNA is that these links are probabilistic.
Say for example:
Person A (no genes related to depression) and person B (has gene related to depression) go through life events X,Y & Z, then person A is 50% likely to develop depression while person B is 80% likely to develop depression.
Genetics effect the probability of you developing depression but, regardless of your DNA, it was events X,Y & Z that caused the depression.

No. This is not the case for very severe depression where life events are simply a catalyst to accelerate it's development. The seed is still there, much in the same way genetics play a part in dementia for example. I don't think even the best life experiences would counteract problomatic/bad genetics. I hate to say it, but the last line is simply a big factor. Much in the same way alcoholism is spread to children from their host parents. The damage is done long before the womb is exited.

There is an entire subset of depressive people who suffer from it long term, even if life is rosey and dandy as they say. Depression is far more complex than the simple "Feeling sad" mentality thrown around. It's more a genetic adaptation in very severe cases. There is research out there to support my "drastic" assertions, so don't assume I am spoofing please:D

bobsoice23 · 31-12-2010 04:59AM

Yea I have been depressed before and have to fight to keep it away every day.I was on the floor for too long,stuck there by some serious cellotape haha.It was at it's worst around my 18th when I was going out with someone aswell.I still can't shake off the embarrassment I feel about that time,it was the definition of hell on earth.The friends I had at the time were amazing aswell considering how ****ed I was.By the way...nothing really triggered my depression,it felt more like an inevaitability that just came round every so often to rock my world.That said I was always fairly shy and tend to over think things.I think what got me off the floor was just saying..feck this ****e don't take things too seriously and go back to basics,easier said than done but you have to start somewhere:D Hope this helps someone.

Sea Sharp · 31-12-2010 05:03AM

Naikon wrote: »

No. This is not the case for very severe depression where life events are simply a catalyst to accelerate it's development. The seed is still there, much in the same way genetics play a part in dementia for example. I don't think even the best life experiences would counteract problomatic/bad genetics. I hate to say it, but the last line is simply a big factor. Much in the same way alcoholism is spread to children from their host parents. The damage is done long before the womb is exited.

There is an entire subset of depressive people who suffer from it long term, even if life is rosey and dandy as they say. Depression is far more complex than the simple "Feeling sad" mentality thrown around. It's more a genetic adaptation in very severe cases. There is research out there to support my "drastic" assertions, so don't assume I am spoofing please:D

I won't, but I'll still maintain that it's probabilistic.
I believe that the correlation between lifestyle and depression (that was covered earlier in the thread by the 'there's no depressed animals in the wild' argument) takes away from the 'blame it on genetics' point of view.

I doubt, although I'm very much open to correction, that the research you're referring to concludes that a particular gene causes depression in 100% of the people that have it.

But, having dealt with it in my life, I definitely agree with you in that:

Depression is far more complex than the simple "Feeling sad" mentality thrown around.

Naikon · 31-12-2010 05:04AM

bobsoice23 wrote: »

Yea I have been depressed before and have to fight to keep it away every day.I was on the floor for too long,stuck there by some serious cellotape haha.It was at it's worst around my 18th when I was going out with someone aswell.I still can't shake off the embarrassment I feel about that time,it was the definition of hell on earth.The friends I had at the time were amazing aswell considering how ****ed I was.By the way...nothing really triggered my depression,it felt more like an inevaitability that just came round every so often to rock my world.That said I was always fairly shy and tend to over think things.I think what got me off the floor was just saying..feck this ****e don't take things too seriously and go back to basics,easier said than done but you have to start somewhere:D Hope this helps someone.

Glad to hear you are better. That is the cardinal rule of life: "don't take it too seriously" Easier said then done, but I like to think of life as a game, where I have to mould it to my advantage:P

Sure, isn't living the ultimate "**** you" or "up yours!" to the universe, who is hell bent on making life as difficult as possible? I like to think it is.

bobsoice23 · 31-12-2010 05:09AM

How's it going Sea Sharp.I've had this conversation in the past and definately think there's a case for people with certain genes being more susceptible to depression.And in regards to the 100 % of people,Don't just exagerate your point to make it sound rediculous.

Naikon · 31-12-2010 05:09AM

Sea Sharp wrote: »

I won't, but I'll still maintain that it's probabilistic.
I believe that the correlation between lifestyle and depression (that was covered earlier in the thread by the 'there's no depressed animals in the wild' argument) takes away from the 'blame it on genetics' point of view.

I doubt, although I'm very much open to correction, that the research you're referring to concludes that a particular gene causes depression in 100% of the people that have it.

But, having dealt with it in my life, I definitely agree with you in that:

Ok, I will respect your position(neither of us are infallible in this regard). Basically, there are so many variables present, it ultimately depends on the individual. I just think, genetics plays a bigger part then we are lead to believe. Just because you have no history of depression, does not exempt you from developing life threatening Depression. On the flipside, the most depressed family known has a son who breaks convention by not having the diesease. I don't believe that 100% chance of depression fully btw. Researchers are still human after all. Error has to be taken into account.

bobsoice23 · 31-12-2010 05:16AM

What gives the case for genetics having a role in depression more credibility for me is that there is a strong and very evident history of depression in my imediate and wider family.A whole bunch of nerves thrown on top for good measure

Wibbs · 31-12-2010 12:38PM

Sea Sharp wrote: »

Is it though?
Granted, severe depression can be described as a chemical imbalance, but that chemical imbalance is caused by a person's lifestyle and/or relationships.
Medication corrects the imbalance. Counselling helps people identify what may be causing the imbalance.

Sorry no, there is zero evidence that depression is caused by a chemical imbalance. Some of the drug companies tried to sell this idea as a way of explaining how their drugs worked, but like I say no evidence. Serotonin a good example. Ohh low serotonin levels mean depressed. Wrong. Women on average have much lower levels than men. Individuals within a gender can have big variability and their levels dont match up with rates of depression.

Dean820 wrote: »

I am really dreading tomorrow night. New Years Eve is usually the most depressing time of the year for me, personally. One of my friends bailed on me earlier tonight as well, we had previously made some plans which would of actually of been a laugh. I've another friend in Dublin but it could cost a fair bit traveling up. When that clock hits 12 and I look around its one of the worse feelings in the world.

And all that's prefectly bloody natural in a social animal who is missing out on a shared(and culturally exaggerated) social/cultural event. I can't see how that's within an asses roar of clinical depression. OK yes if you're still down about missing out on New Years in the middle of June, but feeling bad about it now or tomorrow? Seems natural to me. Same if you're long term single or are billy no mates, especially through circumstance. You will feel down. Your human social brain will fire off emotional pain, in much the same way as stubbing your toe causes physical pain. It's your body telling you "eh here deal with this, its damaging".

Sea Sharp wrote: »

You can't really say that a person is suffering from depression because they have a particular gene. The thing with the scientific studies that show links between depression and DNA is that these links are probabilistic.
Say for example:
Person A (no genes related to depression) and person B (has gene related to depression) go through life events X,Y & Z, then person A is 50% likely to develop depression while person B is 80% likely to develop depression.
Genetics effect the probability of you developing depression but, regardless of your DNA, it was events X,Y & Z that caused the depression.

I'd tend to agree. Its defo multifactoral. I'd liken it to obesity. Obesity is "natural" and genetic. One reason we may have beaten the other early humans is we put on fat when we overate, they put on muscle. The latter costs more biologically. So storing excess fat for lean times is built into modern humans. Does this mean being a fat git is genetic? Clearly not. Well not unless a new fat gene has popped up in the last 2 generations.

Depression

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