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Cén fáth a raibh Gaeilge bhaintear as an ardán Dunlaoghaire? [Read edit in 1st post]

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    #122
    mackerski
    Registered Users Posts: 2,276 ✭✭✭mackerski


    That username is already in use. wrote: »
    2lwpJ.jpg
    Let that be a lesson to any government bodies that try to deliberately contravene the regulations.

    So a single colour would have made a more readable sign, would it? It's good that the IMF is in town, I'm sure they'll want to tackle the unfair dominance of the English langauge early on...


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    #123
    Cookie_Monster
    Registered Users Posts: 24,470 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    well thankfully they at least have the sense not to throw them all away cos one person has an issue with them.


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    #124
    That username is already in use.
    Registered Users Posts: 186 ✭✭That username is already in use.


    markpb wrote: »
    Eh, yeah, that was a terrible punishment - a finger wagging :)

    I am actually very happy with that. smile.gif

    It means I now have a stronger clout when querying DCC on other issues, not just in relation to language policy. They won't fob me off with blatent lies the next time as they know I will take things further. Goal achieved.

    I have learned a lot about the inner workings of the DCC over the past month and I intend to poke about a lot more.

    I am nosey and insistant - the government hate that.


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    #125
    Jehuty42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 560 ✭✭✭Jehuty42


    Cookie_Monster wrote: »
    well thankfully they at least have the sense not to throw them all away cos one person has an issue with them.

    Question to TUiAiU - did your exposure to the inner workings of DCC reveal any other complaints made independently to yours about this issue?


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    #126
    Cookie_Monster
    Registered Users Posts: 24,470 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    Jehuty42 wrote: »
    Question to TUiAiU - did you exposure to the inner workings of DCC reveal any other complaints made independently to yours about this issue?

    I hope not, that'd be a breach of Data Protection


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    #127
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 33,938 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    That username is already in use. wrote: »
    2lwpJ.jpg

    "Both colours are considered to be of equal prominence." - Dublin City Council

    Yes. And...?
    Let that be a lesson to any government bodies that try to deliberately contravene the regulations.

    This sort of awkward-squad sh!t turns more people against the Irish language than anything else.

    Life ain't always empty.



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    #128
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 33,938 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    That username is already in use. wrote: »
    I am nosey and insistant - the government hate that.

    In an era of brutal health and education cuts, I really cannot believe you are complaining about this stuff.

    Life ain't always empty.



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    #129
    mackerski
    Registered Users Posts: 2,276 ✭✭✭mackerski


    Interestingly, on the example shown, not one single item featuring in the sign was originally referred to by an Irish name. All Irish versions are later translations produced for the convenience amusement of people who, although they would understand the original names, choose to demand translations.


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    #130
    Cookie_Monster
    Registered Users Posts: 24,470 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    They also put Dublinia in English twice :P


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    #131
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,261 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Cookie_Monster wrote: »
    They also put Dublinia in English twice :P

    Surely that madey-uppy Latin?


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    #132
    CIE
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,463 ✭✭✭CIE


    Victor wrote: »
    Cookie_Monster wrote: »
    They also put Dublinia in English twice tongue.gif
    Surely that madey-uppy Latin?
    IINM, the accepted term is Dog Latin...


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    #133
    That username is already in use.
    Registered Users Posts: 186 ✭✭That username is already in use.


    ninja900 wrote: »
    This sort of awkward-squad sh!t turns more people against the Irish language than anything else.

    Anything that promotes the Irish language is seen as a waste of money and resources by yourself and your thanksers.

    I make use of the language rights afforded to me by this State.

    As long as these rights are in place, you are just going to have to put up with people like me.

    I have done nothing wrong in this thread, though one would swear otherwise by the responses.

    I am interested in signage design and the Irish language, and I have voiced my opinions to the various departments involved with the wayfinding scheme.

    My voice has been heard and I now have direct contact with the people that are responsible for signage in Dublin.

    I can understand the anti-Irish sentiment here, but I just hate the way some of you try and use it to mute an opinion or shutdown entire thread.

    For those interested in Bilingual signage in Ireland, please visit my thread in the Roads forum
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056102302

    :)


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    #134
    markpb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,250 ✭✭✭markpb


    That username is already in use. wrote: »
    Anything that promotes the Irish language is seen as a waste of money and resources by yourself and your thanksers.

    I can't speak for the others but I don't have a problem with new signs being compliant with OLA. I do have a problem with legislation which forces all public and local authorities to replace all their signs because they're no longer compliant (from 2013). In DCC's case they should have done it properly first time round but your complaint could have resulted in tens of thousands of euros worth of waste.

    However, I do think that OLA is a waste of time. It won't preserve Irish culture, it won't encourage anyone to speak Irish and, in the case of announcements on public transport, it just makes them irritating and overloaded to the point of uselessness. If you love Irish, do you genuinely think OLA is the way to promote it?


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    #135
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,730 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    That username is already in use. wrote: »
    I make use of the language rights afforded to me by this State.

    There is making use of rights; and agitating solely for the sake of agitating

    Those signs are just as readable in Irish as they are in English. They would have been significantly less readable with both the same colour and they would have been significantly less useful to their intended audience - tourists who can't speak a word of Irish - with Irish made more prominent.

    Should they have had to be replaced at cost to the taxpayer I would have considered you responsible for just as pointless a waste of money as the lads in FAS and Mary Harney's haircut.

    The Official Languages Act should be suspended for the forseeable due to utterly unneeded costs it puts on to state agencies.


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    #136
    -Chris-
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,035 ✭✭✭✭-Chris-


    markpb wrote: »
    I can't speak for the others but I don't have a problem with new signs being compliant with OLA. I do have a problem with legislation which forces all public and local authorities to replace all their signs because they're no longer compliant (from 2013). In DCC's case they should have done it properly first time round but your complaint could have resulted in tens of thousands of euros worth of waste.

    I agree with this bit a lot.

    If a sign is designed incorrectly and is therefore difficult to use, replace it.
    If a sign is designed incorrectly but is still easy to use and comprehend, don't replace it just because it uses the wrong shade of grey.

    If a sign is designed incorrectly, someone needs a really good slap for being incompetent, but we've bigger things to worry about than minor differences in fonts.

    One other thing that I'd think is that I really don't believe graphic designers or usability experts were involved in creating these guidelines.
    If you take the most recent example on this thread, changing all the colours so they're all of equal prominence would make this sign harder to comprehend, especially if passing it in a car at 50KMPH while being unfamiliar with the city.


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    #137
    That username is already in use.
    Registered Users Posts: 186 ✭✭That username is already in use.


    markpb wrote: »
    Your complaint could have resulted in tens of thousands of euros worth of waste.

    I requested that future signage follow the regulations properly.

    How is that "tens of thousands of euros worth of waste"?

    No signs were replaced.

    I may be wrong, but I think you want there to be costs so you can harp on about it.


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    #138
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,261 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    CIE wrote: »
    IINM, the accepted term is Dog Latin...
    Should I say "Mea Culpa" or "point proven"?


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    #139
    markpb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,250 ✭✭✭markpb


    That username is already in use. wrote: »
    I may be wrong, but I think you want there to be costs so you can harp on about it.

    Actually *you* resurrected this thread to gloat about your victory over DCC so who's harping?

    And you completely avoided my question. If you love Irish, do you genuinely think OLA is a good way to promote it?


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    #140
    foggy_lad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,373 ✭✭✭✭foggy_lad


    I love Ireland and think those who are supposed to be doing a job should do it properly or give it to someone else. How can any Irish county council order signs from a company without first checking if the signs are correct and comply with all Irish regulations?
    markpb wrote: »
    Actually *you* resurrected this thread to gloat about your victory over DCC so who's harping?

    And you completely avoided my question. If you love Irish, do you genuinely think OLA is a good way to promote it?


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    #141
    bg07
    Registered Users Posts: 247 ✭✭bg07


    That username is already in use. wrote: »
    I requested that future signage follow the regulations properly.

    How is that "tens of thousands of euros worth of waste"?

    No signs were replaced.

    I may be wrong, but I think you want there to be costs so you can harp on about it.

    According to this article in the Sunday Tribune last month there is significant cost as the sign are being relettered.

    Link to Tribune
    Tourist signage unused because 'Irish not prominent'
    Ken Foxe, Public Affairs Correspondent
    One of the signs near City Hall

    A PLAN to erect new signage for tourists and visitors has been delayed because of an argument about the prominence of the Irish language.

    Dublin City Council had begun the process of rolling out the new wayfinder sign system in the capital in late summer.

    However, a formal complaint was made to the Irish Language Commissioner, which meant further progress on the scheme had to be halted.

    The original complaint alleged that the signs were deliberately making the English language version more obvious, in direct contravention of legislation.

    Even though the signs are primarily meant for visitors, they must still carry an Irish version of each word and it must be given at least equal prominence.

    The signs have remained in storage since the adjudication was made and cannot be installed until sufficient time is allowed for an appeal. In the meantime, dozens of distinctive tall empty poles have been erected in the city centre with nothing attached to them.

    Dublin City Council has since been given a strong rebuke by the Irish Language Commissioner for making the English more prominent.

    However, rather than force the destruction of the signs, the commissioner agreed that those already manufactured could be kept if the council agreed to observe the rules in future.

    It is understood that the 683 existing signs will now be stripped down with the lettering altered to make the Irish language more prominent.

    The complaint has caused consternation among some within the council who believe that signage designed primarily for tourists should be exempt from the rules. One city council source said: "It seems bizarre that signage developed chiefly for overseas visitors must give at least equal prominence to a language none of them will understand."

    Others said the rules may seem "ridiculous" but it was important that all state bodies fulfil their duties under legislation.

    Seán Ó Cuirreáin, the Irish language commissioner, said his office had done its best to ensure there was no undue delay for the city council. "The council has confirmed in writing its acceptance of the findings and recommendations and has, in fact, thanked this office for the speed with which the investigation was conducted."

    January 16, 2011

    I think that original signs were fine and don’t agree with the ruling that the Irish translation was less prominent. Personally I think this was all the result of a completely pointless quango trying to justify its existence.


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    #142
    dowlingm
    Registered Users Posts: 5,309 ✭✭✭dowlingm


    bg07 wrote: »
    I think that original signs were fine and don’t agree with the ruling that the Irish translation was less prominent. Personally I think this was all the result of a completely pointless quango trying to justify its existence.
    Jesus lads you're lucky you don't live in Quebec.


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    #143
    Gripen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 32 ✭Gripen


    -Chris- wrote: »
    Sponge Bob banned for 3 days for ignoring on-thread request/warning.


    What is the story with making a Gadaffi-esque decision like that? The poster is entitled on an irish board to use either of the official languages enshrined in the constituition. Boards.ie cannot decide to override certain aspects of the constituition willynilly.


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    #144
    -Chris-
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,035 ✭✭✭✭-Chris-


    Gripen wrote: »
    What is the story with making a Gadaffi-esque decision like that? The poster is entitled on an irish board to use either of the official languages enshrined in the constituition. Boards.ie cannot decide to override certain aspects of the constituition willynilly.

    a) The stance of boards.ie is that if you're posting in a language other than English that you also post a translation (in English). The exceptions are in the language-specific forums

    b) boards.ie is a privately owned website and are allowed to make these conditions for posting without affecting your constitutional rights

    c) The 3 day ban wasn't for speaking Irish, it was for ignoring a moderator request

    d) I don't appreciate being compared to Gadaffi for implementing the rules of boards.ie

    e) If you have any further comment regarding this matter, please take it to the Feedback forum. It is off-topic in the context of this thread and continuing in this line of posting will result in a 3-day ban


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    #145
    bg07
    Registered Users Posts: 247 ✭✭bg07


    A reworked tourist sign sign is up on Westmoreland street now. It now has the same font for both languages with colour scheme for letter reversed. Shocking waste of money in my opinion. I just hope gaeilge police are happy and it doesn't have to go back to the sign makers again.


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