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Cén fáth a raibh Gaeilge bhaintear as an ardán Dunlaoghaire? [Read edit in 1st post]
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OK, some ground rules before this thread continues.
Also, I firmly believe this discussion should be in English. I realise it's about
I hope that makes sense. Thanks
Ach níor scríobh mise ariamh ach faoin gcomtharaíocht ar an árdán féin !!!! Is soiléar gur saineolaí ar a leithéid de chúrsaí mise i gcomparáid le formhór iad siúd a dhfreagair.
Níl tada sna rialacha thart anseo faoi theanga.
Foghlaim cén chaoi Google Translate a úsáid in ainm dé .
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Sponge Bob wrote: »Ach níor scríobh mise ariamh ach faoin gcomtharaíocht ar an árdán féin !!!! Is soiléar gur saineolaí ar a leithéid de chúrsaí mise i gcomparáid le formhór iad siúd a dhfreagair.
Níl tada sna rialacha thart anseo faoi theanga.
Foghlaim cén chaoi Google Translate a úsáid in ainm dé .
Infraction given to Sponge Bob for ignoring on-thread request/warning.0 -
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This is not exclusive to Ireland. There are many places around Europe which also use minority languages on transport signage and announcements.
To name a few: Wales, Brittany, Scotland, Valencia, Catalonia, Galicia and the Basque Country.
Their respective native languages are a minority (less so with Catalan) but there are regulations in place, just like in Ireland, for bilingual signage and recorded announcements on public transport.
The Irish language is the first offical language of the State, and as a citizen of Ireland, I feel that it is my right to be able to communicate with all State bodies in Irish, and at least be able to read public signage or listen to announcements in the official language of my choice.
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Regarding the OLA, there is a loophole in the regulations.
For example, the signage currently in place in most of Irish Rail´s stations go against the recommened guildlines.
a) The text in Irish shall appear first.
b) The text in Irish shall be as prominent, visible and legible as the
text in English.
As you can see on the sign below
(orange text and sodium lighting = barely readable Irish, also, the English comes first)
However, the regulations also state:
d. For signs placed on any site that comply with the Regulations (a, b) except the text in Irish is less prominent, visible or legible than the text in English ... [Must be rectified by 1 January 2026]
This means that signage could theoretically be erected with English is huge font and Irish in unreadable font, and it wouldn´t have to be changed until 2026.
So far, from what I´ve seen, most government bodies are not using this loophole, eg. the signage for RPA (Luas) and the DAA (Dub Airport) have followed the regulations (a, b), and Irish comes first and in the same font as the English.
DAA:
RPA:
However, Dublin City Council are using this loophole. A lot of their recent signage has English in larger font.
eg. signage erected by DCC over the past month that go against the OLA guidelines:
New way finding signage in the city:
*
Signage in DCC Leisure
Should be interesting to see if other government bodies discover this loophole and start using it.0 -
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I would have thought they were not allowed do this as the regulations are in place and the 2026 date applies to older signage that may be costly to replace sooner?This is not exclusive to Ireland. There are many places around Europe which also use minority languages on transport signage and announcements.
To name a few: Wales, Brittany, Scotland, Valencia, Catalonia, Galicia and the Basque Country.
Their respective native languages are a minority (less so with Catalan) but there are regulations in place, just like in Ireland, for bilingual signage and recorded announcements on public transport.
The Irish language is the first offical language of the State, and as a citizen of Ireland, I feel that it is my right to be able to communicate with all State bodies in Irish, and at least be able to read public signage or listen to announcements in the official language of my choice.
----
Regarding the OLA, there is a loophole in the regulations.
For example, the signage currently in place in most of Irish Rail´s stations go against the recommened guildlines.
a) The text in Irish shall appear first.
b) The text in Irish shall be as prominent, visible and legible as the
text in English.
As you can see on the sign below
(orange text and sodium lighting = barely readable Irish, also, the English comes first)
However, the regulations also state:
d. For signs placed on any site that comply with the Regulations (a, b) except the text in Irish is less prominent, visible or legible than the text in English ... [Must be rectified by 1 January 2026]
This means that signage could theoretically be erected with English is huge font and Irish in unreadable font, and it wouldn´t have to be changed until 2026.
So far, from what I´ve seen, most government bodies are not using this loophole, eg. the signage for RPA (Luas) and the DAA (Dub Airport) have followed the regulations (a, b), and Irish comes first and in the same font as the English.
DAA:
RPA:
However, Dublin City Council are using this loophole. A lot of their recent signage has English in larger font.
eg. signage erected by DCC over the past month that go against the OLA guidelines:
New way finding signage in the city:*
Signage in DCC Leisure
Should be interesting to see if other government bodies discover this loophole and start using it.0 -
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actually I think the font is the same size but simply in bold for the englishI would have thought they were not allowed do this as the regulations are in place and the 2026 date applies to older signage that may be costly to replace sooner?
OLA:
b) The text in Irish shall be as prominent, visible and legible as the text in English.
c) The letters in the text in Irish shall not be smaller in size than the letters in the text in English.
So..
b. The English is in bold, which makes the Irish less prominent.
c. The letters in English are larger than the letters in Irish.
..which means it does not comply with the regulations, but, the OLA regulations state:
"For signs placed on any site that comply with the Regulations except the text in Irish is less prominent, visible or legible than the text in English or the letters in the text in Irish are smaller in size than the letters in the text in English. [must be rectified by 1 January 2026]"
Basically, for all new signs, as long as the Irish comes first, it doesn´t matter what size it is. It could be completely illegible compared to English and wouldn´t have to be corrected until 2026. This, as I see it, is a loophole.
You can download the OLA Guidebook here.
Back to Run to da Hills OP
The above "sign" was in breach of the regulations because:
OLA - Signs already erected prior to 1 March 2009
..which would seem to explain it´s recent removal. The Irish version will have to repainted onto the platform by 2012.0 -
If signs with incorrect Irish spellings on them are all going to have to be replaced by 2012, the various authorities are going to have their work cut out.
I'd love to know why the wording on the platforms was changed when it had previously been correct.0 -
If signs with incorrect Irish spellings on them are all going to have to be replaced by 2012, the various authorities are going to have their work cut out.
Just a reminder:
The OLA Regulations do NOT apply to traffic signs. Traffic signs are covered under the Traffic Signs Manual.
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I have received clarification from An Coimisinéir Teanga regarding the suspected loophole.An Coimisiné wrote: »The statement at (D) in the Guidebook to the Official Languages Act published by this Office refers only to signage which was erected prior to the 1 March 2009. Any sign which is erected after that date and is found not to be in compliance with the legislation must be corrected immediately (within a reasonable time-frame, allowing for ordering, making and erecting the sign).
In relation to the DCC signageAn Coimisiné wrote: »As regards the signage referred to in the post, it would appear, at first glance, that these are not compliant, as the English language version is more prominent.
As far as I know, those new signs around the city were erected by jcDecaux as part of the Dublin Bikes/Advertising scheme. The OLA regulations clearly state that
A public body has a duty to ensure that signs placed by it or on its behalf within or outside the State are in Irish or bilingual.
So, the new DCC signage is in breach of the regulations and will have to be replaced ASAP.
And in relation to signage erected by Iarnród ÉireannAn Coimisiné wrote: »..there is further legislation on signage in the case of Iarnród Éireann in the Transport Act 1950, which states that all permanent signage must be bilingual. This would take precedence over the requirement in the Official Language Act which gives a lead in time to correct signs erected prior to 1 March 2009 – there is no such lead in time in the case of the Transport Act, and non-compliant signage should be corrected as soon as it is identified.0 -
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Cookie_Monster wrote: »The main point is the waste of money in changing. I'd imagine DCC are perfectly aware that the signs aren't correct but simply don't care as they realise nobody really cares about the Irish on signs, and display English more prominently
+1
They probably should have done it properly for new signs but making them replace all the old signs is a giant waste of money with absolutely no benefit at all. The Irish is there, people can read it, who cares?Do you mean like "Anglo Irish Bank"? :pac:
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+1
They probably should have done it properly for new signs but making them replace all the old signs is a giant waste of money with absolutely no benefit at all. The Irish is there, people can read it, who cares?
The usual suspects, the same people who are keeping Irish on the cirriculum as a mandatory subject even though it's utterly useless and the majority of students don't enjoy studying it.0 -
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