Cén fáth a raibh Gaeilge bhaintear as an ardán Dunlaoghaire? [Read edit in 1st post]

Run_to_da_hills

[Victor]Some of this thread is in Irish, there is a google translator here: http://translate.google.com/#ga|en|[/Victor]

Thug mé ar De Luain seo go bhfuil an Gaeilge baineadh as an imeall ardán Dunlaoghaire agus d'fhan an leagan Béarla den rabhadh. :mad:

Southsider1

There's probably not as many Irish speakers in Dun Laoghaire as there are English speakers? Personally I think the 'signs as Gaeilge' thing is way overdone. I was on a Luas recently and all the signage in one section of the unit were as Gaeilge. I was good at Irish in school but unfortunately have lost most of it in the past twenty years. They may as well have it in mandarin for some of us.

Sponge Bob

Nach léir go bhfuil "Fan Taobh Líne Seo" míchruinn.

Ba cheart go ndéarfaí "Fan AR an Taobh SEO DEN Líne BUÍ"

Is contúirtí go mór míchrunneas ná easpa.

Hogzy

Id say there are more people in Ireland that can speak Polish than Irish. Why isnt everything in Polish?

Breezer

I'd imagine it's because "Fan Taobh Líne Seo" doesn't actually mean anything. If you were to translate it directly, it would read "Stay side this line."

A while back, some genius in Iarnród Éireann decided to remove the old wording, "Fan Taobh Thiar Den Líne Seo," which does in fact mean "Keep behind this line," and replace it with the above gobbledegook. I can only assume that the error was subsequently pointed out to them, because the wording was then corrected in most stations. Presumably Dun Laoghaire was missed and is now catching up.

Isn't it good to know our money is being well spent? :rolleyes:

There's some real gems of Irish "translations" on roadsigns, stations signs, etc. around the place if you keep your eyes peeled.

EDIT: Damn, beaten to it!

I'm also going to give this thread a further 10 posts before it becomes a pointless debate on the merits of the Irish language. Any takers? Lower? Higher? Place your bets!

mickydoomsux

There shouldn't be Irish on any signs anymore than there should be signs in Latin.

Dead language and all.

D.L.R.

Ironic that the town in question must be the most mis-spelled placename in the country, with no English translation!

blubloblu

D.L.R. wrote: »

Ironic that the town in question must be the most mis-spelled placename in the country, with no English translation!

Yes, that's definitely ironic.

corktina

I was in An Rinn in the week and was doing 80k wondering what "STAD" means..... what hope for the poor tourists?

thomasj

If their destinations display on commuter railcars is anything to go by it will say maigh nuad in dun laoghire!

I was on connolly bound train nd it was showing castleconnell as the destination

Ive also seen nenagh newry mosney manulla junction all in the dublin area!

Ham'nd'egger

No matter what State Agency or company uses Irish, somebody always goes onto the media within a day or two to say that it's wrongly worded. You'd think that the translations are being made up as they go along!:p

Transportuser09

mickydoomsux wrote: »

There shouldn't be Irish on any signs anymore than there should be signs in Latin.

Dead language and all.

Irish is not a dead language. I personally don't have a problem with it on signs, it's part of our culture. Similarly, Scotland and Wales hae bilingual signage at their stations, so it's not just an Irish phenomenon.

Hogzy wrote: »

Id say there are more people in Ireland that can speak Polish than Irish. Why isnt everything in Polish?

Polish is not an official language of the country, though it's speakers may have increased in the past decade. Controversial though this may sound, generally immigrants adapt to their new country, not the other way round. (Look at the mass imigration of Irish, Italian and other nationalities into the United States in the 19th and 20th centuries). No offence meant to any immigrants.

Oliver1985

An bhfuil céad agam dul amach go dtí an leithreas más é do thoil é:D:D:D

corktina

Transportuser09 wrote: »

Irish is not a dead language. I personally don't have a problem with it on signs, it's part of our culture. Similarly, Scotland and Wales hae bilingual signage at their stations, so it's not just an Irish phenomenon.




Polish is not an official language of the country, though it's speakers may have increased in the past decade. Controversial though this may sound, generally immigrants adapt to their new country, not the other way round. (Look at the mass imigration of Irish, Italian and other nationalities into the United States in the 19th and 20th centuries). No offence meant to any immigrants.

All the Polish I have met have adapted brilliantly to the English language, more power to them! The Guy I worked with last week even referred to his wife as "the old doll"

Hogzy

Oliver1985 wrote: »

An bhfuil céad agam dul amach go dtí an leithreas más é do thoil é:D:D:D

Léigh anois go cúramach ar do scrúdpapear na treoracha agus na ceisteanna chuid ahhhh

Chuid Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Transportuser09

corktina wrote: »

All the Polish I have met have adapted brilliantly to the English language, more power to them! The Guy I worked with last week even referred to his wife as "the old doll"

Exactly, which proves that there is little need for Polish signs, interesting though the concept of trilingual signage might be!

Oliver1985

Hogzy wrote: »

Léigh anois go cúramach ar do scrúdpapear na treoracha agus na ceisteanna quid ahhhh

Quid Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Dj Stiggie

Hogzy wrote: »

Léigh anois go cúramach ar do scrúdpapear na treoracha agus na ceisteanna quid ahhhh

Quid Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Níl aon "Q" i nGaeilge

foggy_lad

the mind definitely boggles but i am still trying to figure out where Nás na Ríogh agus an gluaisteán disappeared to so dún laoghaire stations platform sinage would not be a priority:):):)

Run_to_da_hills

Oliver1985 wrote: »

An bhfuil céad agam dul amach go dtí an leithreas más é do thoil é:D:D:D

Ní féidir leat úsáid an leithris nuair a bhíonn an traein stop sa stáisiún.

AlekSmart

Many years ago,in the 1980`s in fact,when I first worked in Kingstown and it`s environs it was not unusual for one to note on a journey on the 59 bus route that many of the road name signs had their Irish translations painted out......perhaps it`s that sense of independence reasserting itself one again.... ....either that or maybe it really is time to Run to da Hills !!!!

-Chris-

Breezer wrote: »

I'm also going to give this thread a further 10 posts before it becomes a pointless debate on the merits of the Irish language. Any takers? Lower? Higher? Place your bets!

Hopefully not, or I'll move it to the Gaeilge forum... :cool:

Run_to_da_hills

Ok back on topic, Why have CIE wiped out the Irish translation of a platform warning on Dunlaoghaire Station?

Is this a new policy?

If word of this gets around we could see nationalists starting to paint over the English versions.

L1011

corktina wrote: »

I was in An Rinn in the week and was doing 80k wondering what "STAD" means..... what hope for the poor tourists?

Report that one. There is no Irish language equivalent of the STOP sign, STAD is illegal on them.

mickydoomsux wrote: »

There shouldn't be Irish on any signs anymore than there should be signs in Latin.

Dead language and all.

Like at Wallsend?

jahalpin

Irish Rail probably put the notice in english only because they really don't want people to fall in front of the trains and almost 100% of the population and a high percentage of tourists understand english.

Only a tiny percentage of people use irish in any way and putting safety messages in irish is dangerous and is a complete waste of time and money

etchyed

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Ok back on topic, Why have CIE wiped out the Irish translation of a platform warning on Dunlaoghaire Station?

Is this a new policy?

No. Breezer already answered your question. The Irish was wrong and is probably being replaced.

In general though, Irish Rail's use of the Irish language is pretty haphazard. A lot of signage is only in English. And while the RPA has changed its PIS to provide full translations of all announcements, Irish Rail's are still fully in English save for the placenames. Which sounds completely stupid. Not that the announcements on the DART ever really work.

mickydoomsux

jahalpin wrote: »

Irish Rail probably put the notice in english only because they really don't want people to fall in front of the trains and almost 100% of the population and a high percentage of tourists understand english.

Only a tiny percentage of people use irish in any way and putting safety messages in irish is dangerous and is a complete waste of time and money

But what about the few asshole Gaeligoir-types who insist on wasting money on having everything translated into bog-talk?

How will they feel all smug and self satisfied if we dump this archaic nonsense from our public buildings?

I much prefer the way the DART does it - the RPA method makes it seem like a constant rolling commentary throughout the city centre.

IÉ's intercity stock also has full Irish and English announcements on the PIS. I think the Mk4s are the worst, it doesn't seem to go on as long in the 22Ks.

Transportuser09

jahalpin wrote: »

Only a tiny percentage of people use irish in any way and putting safety messages in irish is dangerous and is a complete waste of time and money

As long as it is also in English I don't see it as dangerous, no more than the French and German translations to be found on Motorways. Regardless of how many speak it, it's presence does not create a danger in itself.

-Chris-

mickydoomsux wrote: »

But what about the few asshole Gaeligoir-types who insist on wasting money on having everything translated into bog-talk?

How will they feel all smug and self satisfied if we dump this archaic nonsense from our public buildings?

Can you use a little less tar on that brush next time?

Transportuser09

Karsini wrote: »

I much prefer the way the DART does it - the RPA method makes it seem like a constant rolling commentary throughout the city centre.

IÉ's intercity stock also has full Irish and English announcements on the PIS. I think the Mk4s are the worst, it doesn't seem to go on as long in the 22Ks.

Indeed, I'm sure anyone who has travelled on the Luas a few times by now knows it by heart!

Run_to_da_hills

jahalpin wrote: »

Irish Rail probably put the notice in english only because they really don't want people to fall in front of the trains and almost 100% of the population and a high percentage of tourists understand english.

Only a tiny percentage of people use irish in any way and putting safety messages in irish is dangerous and is a complete waste of time and money

What gets me is that for the last century and a half there was nothing but granite flagstones at the edge of the platform. There was no written warnings telling people not to step beond lines, "not to fall off the edge" or "get too close" :rolleyes:

In those days it was worse, you were likely to get a clobber from an opening door on a Parkroyal or Craven. .

Have people become so stupid in the last decade that they now have to be told not to step too close to the edge of the platform?

Transportuser09

mickydoomsux wrote: »

But what about the few asshole Gaeligoir-types who insist on wasting money on having everything translated into bog-talk?

How will they feel all smug and self satisfied if we dump this archaic nonsense from our public buildings?

It's not 'bog-talk', it's not wasteful either to embrace part of our national culture rather than have every country in the world shoe-horned into having everything in English. As I mentioned in another post, Scotland and Wales use bilingual signage(possibly the Manx as well, though I may be wrong) so it is clearly not just our own government that see's fit to do so. It allows for a sense of identity and uniqueness; there's nothing wrong with that.

LimeFruitGum

Ah sure, I work in DL and I see loads of signs with inaccurate or misspelled Irish on them. I remember seeing "bother donta" at a roadworks site in Georges's Street when the average kid knows it should be "bóthar dúnta" :-)
They'd never stand for that in Monkstown!:cool:

etchyed

Karsini wrote: »

I much prefer the way the DART does it - the RPA method makes it seem like a constant rolling commentary throughout the city centre.

IÉ's intercity stock also has full Irish and English announcements on the PIS. I think the Mk4s are the worst, it doesn't seem to go on as long in the 22Ks.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying there should be Mk4 or 22k style announcements on DARTs, they're pointlessly long and I really don't like how the Irish has been translated in them. The announcements the DART has at present though are neither fish nor fowl. They sound ridiculous.

"This train is for Malahide, Mullach Íde. Next station Connolly Station, Stáisiúin Uí Conghaíle. Change here for blah blah blah... Please mind the gap between the train and the platform and have your ticket ready for inspection."

Look at how stupid that looks! Just throwing in a few placenames here and there. Pure tokenism. tbh I'd prefer there to be no Irish to that. Fortunately Irish Rail are gonna have to pull their finger out to comply with the Official Languages Act eventually.

etchyed

Transportuser09 wrote: »

It's not 'bog-talk', it's not wasteful either to embrace part of our national culture rather than have every country in the world shoe-horned into having everything in English. As I mentioned in another post, Scotland and Wales use bilingual signage(possibly the Manx as well, though I may be wrong) so it is clearly not just our own government that see's fit to do so. It allows for a sense of identity and uniqueness; there's nothing wrong with that.

Why are you even trying? The poster in question has obviously had some kind of negative experience with Irish and will never be for turning. Best to just ignore posts about 'bog-talk' or, as predicted, the thread will descend into a slanging match.

That username is already in use.

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Ok back on topic, Why have CIE wiped out the Irish translation of a platform warning on Dunlaoghaire Station?

Is this a new policy?

Official Languages Act.

A public body has a duty to ensure that signs placed by it or on its behalf within or outside the State are in Irish or bilingual.

a) The text in Irish shall appear first.
b) The text in Irish shall be as prominent, visible and legible as the
text in English.
c) The letters in the text in Irish shall not be smaller in size than the
letters in the text in English.
d) The text in Irish shall communicate the same information as the
text in English.
e) A word in the text in Irish shall not be abbreviated unless the
word in the text in English, of which it is the translation, is also
abbreviated.

Key dates for implementation of the Regulations

A. For new signs i.e. signs placed on any site on or after 1 March 2009 (whether in place of older signs or not) - 1 March 2009
B. For signs placed on any site before 1 March 2009 which would fulfil the requirements of these Regulations except there is an error in the Irish text - 1 March 2012

etchyed wrote: »

while the RPA has changed its PIS to provide full translations of all announcements, Irish Rail's are still fully in English save for the placenames.

Karsini wrote: »

I much prefer the way the DART does it - the RPA method makes it seem like a constant rolling commentary throughout the city centre.

IÉ's intercity stock also has full Irish and English announcements on the PIS. I think the Mk4s are the worst, it doesn't seem to go on as long in the 22Ks.

Irish Rail will have to upgrade their PIS on DARTs to be fully bilingual by July 2013.

Official Languages Act.

Public bodies have a duty to ensure that recorded oral announcements made by them or on their behalf are in Irish or bilingual by 1 July 2013.

What kinds of announcements?

2. Recorded oral announcements transmitted by a public address system for example recorded announcements such as a security warning in an airport, a train station or in any other public place.

Do public bodies have a duty to provide the same information in both official languages on recorded oral announcements?

It is implicit in the Regulations that the same information be provided in both official languages on recorded oral announcements when the provision is read in the context of the Regulations as a whole.

-Chris-

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

What gets me is that for the last century and a half there was nothing but granite flagstones at the edge of the platform. There was no written warnings telling people not to step beond lines, "not to fall off the edge" or "get too close" :rolleyes:

In those days it was worse, you were likely to get a clobber from an opening door on a Parkroyal or Craven. .

Have people become so stupid in the last decade that they now have to be told not to step too close to the edge of the platform?

That's what I love about the Luas, the tracks are at ground level and are easy to walk across. It's a form of transport that's integrated into the scenery and the fact that you can walk across it is a form of trust that really helps me to identify with it.

Lifelike

etchyed wrote: »

"This train is for Malahide, Mullach Íde. Next station Connolly Station, Stáisiúin Uí Conghaíle. Change here for blah blah blah... Please mind the gap between the train and the platform and have your ticket ready for inspection."

And of course "Bray, Bré".

-Chris-

etchyed wrote: »

Why are you even trying? The poster in question has obviously had some kind of negative experience with Irish and will never be for turning. Best to just ignore posts about 'bog-talk' or, as predicted, the thread will descend into a slanging match.

Yes please.

reeta

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Nach léir go bhfuil "Fan Taobh Líne Seo" míchruinn.

Ba cheart go ndéarfaí "Fan AR an Taobh SEO DEN Líne BUÍ"

Is contúirtí go mór míchrunneas ná easpa.

Such absolute rubbish !!!!!!!!!!!

highlydebased

Dia Dhiabh a dhuine Uaisela, chuir Iarnroid Eireann failte romhat ar bord. Seo e an traen o Luimneach go Staisuin Heuston, agus taimid ag freastal ar.....durlas...an teampeall mor...cilldara agus...stasiun heuston. Chuir ard (something) ar na fograi sabhailteachta ata ar an seirbhis seo. Na faighi suichan ata reamh airithe. Ta suil agam go bhfuil teastal compoirdeach againn (spelling of much is wrong)

What makes me laugh is that they have all these annoucements- and if you asked IE staff something in Irish they looks you'd probably get!

I'd say that the absolute worst on the system must be when they put a 22K on Maynooth services. I was on one from Drumcondra to Connolly one morning and by the time the Irish arrival announcement had finished, the train was already at the station. I can't imagine what it must be like to do the whole trip in one. But what that says to me is, why are you putting intercity stock on a commuter route?

etchyed

That username is already in use. wrote: »

Irish Rail will have to upgrade their PIS on DARTs to be fully bilingual by July 2013.

Thanks, was wondering what the date was but was too lazy to look it up.

-Chris-

reeta wrote: »

Such absolute rubbish !!!!!!!!!!!

3 of your 5 posts so far are poinltess and mildly abusive/insulting. It might be ok in After Hours, but it's not that welcome here.

Can you try and be more constructive with your next post?

mickydoomsux

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Have people become so stupid in the last decade that they now have to be told not to step too close to the edge of the platform?

It got more to do with the 'sue at the drop of a hat' culture we live in now that costs IE a hell of a lot of money.

That username is already in use.

Neon-Circles wrote: »

Dia Dhiabh a dhuine Uaisela...

He also says something about a "Bar sneaceana"? I burst out laughing when I heard that :P

That username is already in use.

mickydoomsux wrote: »

It got more to do with the 'sue at the drop of a hat' culture we live in now that costs IE a hell of a lot of money.

If they don´t follow the new OLA regulations, they could be liable. Some unfortunate Gaeilgeoir may stumble off the platform and then sue because the warning wasn´t in Irish!

highlydebased

That username is already in use. wrote: »

He also says something about a "Bar sneaceana"? I burst out laughing when I heard that :P

Yeah- and theres Ceapairi and deochanna te agus fuar ar fhail!

foggy_lad

Neon-Circles wrote: »

Yeah- and theres Ceapairi and deochanna te agus fuar ar fhail!

Cold tea and crumpet?

That username is already in use.

foggy_lad wrote: »

Cold tea and crumpet?

ceapairí means sandwiches. You might get some crumpets on the Enterprise.

Ceapairi and deochanna te agus fuar ar fhail
Sandwiches and hot and cold drinks available