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The EU is the Fourth Reich

12467

Comments

  • #92
    PanchoVilla
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,053 ✭✭✭PanchoVilla


    namloc1980 wrote: »
    And your point is? We are part of a single market of 500m and we make up 0.9% of that. For a country our size have done remarkably well from the EU, protectionism De Valera style would be catastrophic to us.

    Yeah, we did extremely well. We have a country full of empty houses while people are being turned out into the street by the very banks who put us here in the first place. The reason the Irish government decided to bail out Irish banks was because European banks were the major bondholders. And who pays for all of this? The Irish taxpayer. It's just Europeans doing what Europeans have always done, exploit those who can't defend themselves.


  • #93
    namloc1980
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,527 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    PanchoVilla wrote: »
    I'd rather have protectionism and have a chance to develop our own economy and industry than be at the mercy of international investors and foreign markets. You say protectionism didn't work but I say our nation was only just starting and we needed to find a good way of doing things. We had lots of resources in this country before we handed the rights to exploit them to foreign companies.

    So how would do propose we would replace the tens of thousands of export and FDI jobs that would be lost through becoming protectionist?


  • #94
    sligopark
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,620 ✭✭✭sligopark


    namloc1980 wrote: »
    So how would do propose we would replace the tens of thousands of export and FDI jobs that would be lost through becoming protectionist?


    sorry what jobs exactly - are they like the dell jobs that eh took off to poland?


  • #95
    namloc1980
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,527 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    PanchoVilla wrote: »
    Yeah, we did extremely well. We have a country full of empty houses while people are being turned out into the street by the very banks who put us here in the first place. The reason the Irish government decided to bail out Irish banks was because European banks were the major bondholders. And who pays for all of this? The Irish taxpayer. It's just Europeans doing what Europeans have always done, exploit those who can't defend themselves.

    As has been pointed the EU did not force us to build thouands of uneeded houses. Trying to blame the EU for OUR mess is ridiculous but as I said it seems to be the fashion around here.


  • #96
    namloc1980
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,527 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    sligopark wrote: »
    sorry what jobs exactly - are they like the dell jobs that eh took off to poland?

    How would you replace them with protectionist economics??


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  • #97
    sligopark
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,620 ✭✭✭sligopark


    namloc1980 wrote: »
    How would you replace them with protectionist economics??

    I think had we been under eec rules rather than eu governance the occasion would never have happened


    namloc1980 wrote: »
    As has been pointed the EU did not force us to build thouands of uneeded houses. Trying to blame the EU for OUR mess is ridiculous but as I said it seems to be the fashion around here.

    please read through the thread rather than forcing us to repeat ourselves - it seems to be the fashion here that if you and meglome repeat yourselves enough it will become fact and supercede truth.


  • #98
    K-9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,313 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    sligopark wrote: »
    I would prefer if you didn't blur the boundaries K-9 - the diference between the EEC and the EU are wide (I am hoping you make a mistake of sticking in EEC instead of EU)

    personally I am pro europe: a europe of co-operating states for mutual beneift, a friendly cooperating free trade europe which the EEC was - I am against a federal superstate with governance without democracy and a leader elected by secret vote which the EU is.

    So, tariffs and duties aren't really an issue for you then. Fair enough, was getting the opposite impression from your posts.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • #99
    PanchoVilla
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,053 ✭✭✭PanchoVilla


    namloc1980 wrote: »
    As has been pointed the EU did not force us to build thouands of uneeded houses. Trying to blame the EU for OUR mess is ridiculous but as I said it seems to be the fashion around here.

    The EU are responsible for the mass immigration of cheap labor which facilitated the massive property boom. If that labor was not present, so many houses would not have been so easily built. Trying to distance the EU and their policies from the mess we're in today is ridiculous.


  • #100
    sligopark
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,620 ✭✭✭sligopark


    K-9 wrote: »
    So, tariffs and duties aren't really an issue for you then. Fair enough, was getting the opposite impression from your posts.

    Don't mean to be rude but do you know what the eec in its original guise was about and decided in direct comaprison to an eu post lisbon?


  • #101
    K-9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,313 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    PanchoVilla wrote: »
    The EU are responsible for the mass immigration of cheap labor which facilitated the massive property boom. If that labor was not present, so many houses would not have been so easily built. Trying to distance the EU and their policies from the mess we're in today is ridiculous.

    Hard to know. I'd say that the greed and avarice of FF, Bankers, Developers and many Irish people would have found some way to get the labour here.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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  • #102
    sligopark
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,620 ✭✭✭sligopark


    K-9 wrote: »
    Hard to know. I'd say that the greed and avarice of FF, Bankers, Developers and many Irish people would have found some way to get the labour here.

    direct eu facilitiation denial at its best


  • #103
    K-9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,313 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    sligopark wrote: »
    Don't mean to be rude but do you know what the eec in its original guise was about and decided in direct comaprison to an eu post lisbon?

    Yes, you are aware that the EEC was the Common Market, free trade within that zone, tariffs outside it?

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • #104
    sligopark
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,620 ✭✭✭sligopark


    K-9 wrote: »
    Yes, you are aware that the EEC was the Common Market, free trade within that zone, tariffs outside it?

    did it stop 'guaranteed irish'?

    Did it involve the loss of sovereignty?


  • #105
    namloc1980
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,527 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    sligopark wrote: »
    I think had we been under eec rules rather than eu governance the occasion would never have happened





    please read through the thread rather than forcing us to repeat ourselves - it seems to be the fashion here that if you and meglome repeat yourselves enough it will become fact and supercede truth.

    Pot....Kettle....Black.
    PanchoVilla wrote: »
    The EU are responsible for the mass immigration of cheap labor which facilitated the massive property boom. If that labor was not present, so many houses would not have been so easily built. Trying to distance the EU and their policies from the mess we're in today is ridiculous.

    Ah so it was de foreigners fault....I see. You might recall that it was the Irish Government that decided to give the new EU countries unrestricted access to our market, this was not an EU policy. Most of the other EU states did not allow the access we did. So remind me again how was that de foreigners fault???


  • #106
    sligopark
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,620 ✭✭✭sligopark


    namloc1980 wrote: »
    Pot....Kettle....Black.

    sorry but no matter how often you deny it the truth is the truth is the truth


  • #107
    K-9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,313 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    sligopark wrote: »
    direct eu facilitiation denial at its best

    Having worked in Construction and having observed what was going on by some Irish people who would have sold their own mother to make money, I amn't in denial.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • #108
    namloc1980
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,527 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    sligopark wrote: »
    sorry but no matter how often you deny it the truth is the truth is the truth

    You're the one who thinks the EU and de bloody foreigners caused it all........yawn.


  • #109
    K-9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,313 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    sligopark wrote: »
    did it stop 'guaranteed irish'?

    Did it involve the loss of sovereignty?

    It must have, going on the timeline provided in this thread, the EEC ended in 1993.

    Yes to the second answer as well.

    Not being rude, but you should brush up on basic stuff.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • #110
    sligopark
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,620 ✭✭✭sligopark


    K-9 wrote: »
    Having worked in Construction and having observed what was going on by some Irish people who would have sold their own mother to make money, I amn't in denial.

    then K-9 with respect its time to do some reading or at the very least listening - none of us here I reckon have been on here have ultimately been winner of the politicon men of irish or eu politics I think its time to realise we need some new politics rather than blaming the ordinary irish brick layer


  • #111
    PanchoVilla
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,053 ✭✭✭PanchoVilla


    namloc1980 wrote: »
    Ah so it was de foreigners fault....I see. You might recall that it was the Irish Government that decided to give the new EU countries unrestricted access to our market, this was not an EU policy. Most of the other EU states did not allow the access we did. So remind me again how was that de foreigners fault???

    I never said it was the foreigners fault so don't put words in my mouth. How in the hell do you know it wasn't EU policy when so many meetings are held behind closed doors? There is no transparency in the EU. The government did everything to benefit the EU, so how the hell are you going to say the EU had nothing to do with government decisions?


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  • #112
    sligopark
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,620 ✭✭✭sligopark


    K-9 wrote: »
    It must have, going on the timeline provided in this thread, the EEC ended in 1993.

    Yes to the second answer as well.

    would respectfully have to agree to disagree


    K-9 wrote: »
    Not being rude, but you should brush up on basic stuff.

    again would respectfully have to agree to disagree


  • #113
    namloc1980
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,527 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    PanchoVilla wrote: »
    I never said it was the foreigners fault so don't put words in my mouth. How in the hell do you know it wasn't EU policy when so many meetings are held behind closed doors? There is no transparency in the EU. The government did everything to benefit the EU, so how the hell are you going to say the EU had nothing to do with government decisions?

    So we're basing it on supposed meetings in secret now are we? LOL Seriously dude. Blaming the big bad EU is getting a bit tiresome.


  • #114
    sligopark
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,620 ✭✭✭sligopark


    PanchoVilla wrote: »
    How in the hell do you know it wasn't EU policy when so many meetings are held behind closed doors? There is no transparency in the EU.

    eh who voted barosso president? Oh no-one knows - it was a secret vote.


  • #115
    K-9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,313 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    sligopark wrote: »
    would respectfully have to agree to disagree





    again would respectfully have to agree to disagree

    Really, if you think joining the EEC meant we didn't lose sovereignty, I can't help you correct your ignorance of the EEC. It's the very reason we had a Referendum to join.

    Why did you think they held that Referendum?

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • #116
    PanchoVilla
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,053 ✭✭✭PanchoVilla


    namloc1980 wrote: »
    So we're basing it on supposed meetings in secret now are we? LOL Seriously dude.

    What "supposed" meetings? EU leaders meet regularly in various locations away from the public gaze and interference from the media. Tell me something, did you vote for Herman Van Rompuy? Do you know who did?
    Blaming the big bad EU is getting a bit tiresome.

    Yeah, well this is the CT forum and just about the only place we can discuss it. If you don't like it...


  • #117
    K-9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,313 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    PS. I worked in Accounts. It wasn't just brick layers I was getting at.

    It is ok to criticise some Irish people as greedy scrooges. It isn't a reflection on you or Irish people, just human nature.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • #118
    sligopark
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,620 ✭✭✭sligopark


    K-9 wrote: »
    Why did you think they held that Referendum?

    a consitutional issue not the handover of sovereignty that was to result from the maastricht, nice and lisbon treaties

    K-9 wrote: »
    It is ok to criticise some Irish people as greedy scrooges. It isn't a reflection on you or Irish people, just human nature.

    cheers but I think you are forgetting that that same human nature also is evident amongst the eu elite and that 'some pigs are more equal than other pigs' has now evolved from the transformation of the eec into todays federal superstate eu


  • #119
    K-9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,313 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    sligopark wrote: »
    a consitutional issue not the handover of sovereignty that was to result from the maastricht, nice and lisbon treaties




    cheers but I think you are forgetting that that same human nature also is evident amongst the eu elite and that 'some pigs are more equal than other pigs' has now evolved from the transformation of the eec into todays federal superstate eu

    It involved a big loss of sovereignty which was your original question.

    Your question didn't refer to how much of a loss of sovereignty is palatable to you.

    I'm not forgetting anything about the EU. Seeing as I referred to Human Nature, I am well aware of the shortcomings of the EU. I am also aware of the huge advantages which unfortunately we chose not to exploit and pissed it away on coke and hookers!

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • #120
    sligopark
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,620 ✭✭✭sligopark


    K-9 wrote: »
    I am also aware of the huge advantages which unfortunately we chose not to exploit and pissed it away on coke and hookers!

    ah come on K-9 neither you I or the majority of those affected by this eu, bankster and politicon men of ff fg and labour lost our future earnings, pensions or the comfort of relations close to home through coke or hookers - please don't shame us by claiming the ordinary irish taxpayer did so either


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  • #121
    K-9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,313 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    sligopark wrote: »

    great to hear irish people defend our loss of sovereignty

    Think this is where the confusion started.

    It seemed there you had a problem with losing sovereignty and used that as a slur in the thread.

    Turns out you actually where describing yourself.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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