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The EU is the Fourth Reich

13567

Comments

  • #62
    meglome
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,980 ✭✭✭meglome


    digme wrote: »
    watch it and find out

    I did watch it. Was there a mention of the EU?
    sligopark wrote: »
    oh this again - your gombeen politicians voted in and followed around by sheeple who then come on here and try and blame us - and before someone wisely states we need to riot and bring a new level of communication to bear on politicians as they doorstep - I agree.

    We'll let's be clear.. we voted for them and we did nothing to punish them for their actions. All of which has nothing to do with the EU.
    Torakx wrote: »
    I guess you would have to read between the lines alot.
    Mainly the corruption that is going on and the idea that corruption is not just national or isolated to one area but possibly connected in many ways globally.
    Britain is heavily involved with the EU as they are between Ireland and the rest of europe.

    Read between the lines? Either it makes a point about the EU or it doesn't.


  • #63
    sligopark
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,620 ✭✭✭sligopark


    meglome wrote: »
    We'll let's be clear.. we voted for them and we did nothing to punish them for their actions.

    How do you propose we punish them? Do you mean thumps and kicks - is there another way to punish them given the politicon man class have made sure any change of government from one bunch of chancers to another only pays off those being taken out of government and more so if they resign?


    meglome wrote: »
    All of which has nothing to do with the EU.

    And Barosso the leader of the EU by secret vote (his own words) didn't come over (against his own eu rules) and campaign for a yes on the second lisbon treay vote on the basis of jobs when the eu and poland susbsitised the loss of 2000 dell jobs (and thousands of support jobs) in limerick - yes of course the eu club had nothing to do with it - I wish some with their eu blinkers could see the truth ...


    Meglome don't wish this to become personal but pls stop making repeated claims of non responsibility toward the eu and gombeen irish politics, whilst blaming the irish citizen when they have little or no legal avenue for action.


  • #64
    meglome
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,980 ✭✭✭meglome


    sligopark wrote: »
    How do you propose we punish them? Do you mean thumps and kicks - is there another way to punish them given the politicon man class have made sure any change of government from one bunch of chancers to another only pays off those being taken out of government and more so if they resign?

    I assume I won't have to explain how representative democracy works. We vote for someone and if they don't do as they promise we vote for someone else. Not all politicians are the same, find a half decent one and vote for them.
    sligopark wrote: »
    And Barosso the leader of the EU by secret vote (his own words) didn't come over (against his own eu rules) and campaign for a yes on the second lisbon treay vote on the basis of jobs when the eu and poland susbsitised the loss of 2000 dell jobs (and thousands of support jobs) in limerick - yes of course the eu club had nothing to do with it - I wish some with their eu blinkers could see the truth ...

    Okay. How exactly did the EU make us borrow crap loads of money for rubbish houses? How did the EU make us vote for people who royally fukked up? How did the EU make our banks do really stupid things? Explain exactly how the EU caused the recession?
    sligopark wrote: »
    Meglome don't wish this to become personal but pls stop making repeated claims of non responsibility toward the eu and gombeen irish politics, whilst blaming the irish citizen when they have little or no legal avenue for action.

    I believe in personal responsibility, sure it was the bankers and politicians who directly did the damage but we the people of Ireland let them. We didn't care who we voted for, we didn't care when they offered us a high spend government with low taxes. When we don't care our politicians don't have to care. One is a result of the other.


  • #65
    sligopark
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,620 ✭✭✭sligopark


    meglome wrote: »
    I assume I won't have to explain how representative democracy works. We vote for someone and if they don't do as they promise we vote for someone else. Not all politicians are the same

    the biggest problem is that they are - just check out the agreed politics between ff, fg and labour....
    meglome wrote: »
    How exactly did the EU make us borrow crap loads of money for rubbish houses?

    by making it available to wansters and available to politicon men to manipulate for their mutual beneift above our heads and call
    meglome wrote: »
    How did the EU make us vote for people who royally fukked up?

    By forcing a second vote and involving themselves in a fear based voting tactic with the majority of politicon parties here on this island looking out out for themselves rather than the nation's population, national interest and sovereignty

    Meglome - give it up - stop blaming the ordinary irish taxpayer who had no way to stop this givne the gombeen greedy traitorus bunch the majority of politicons have become


  • #66
    namloc1980
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,527 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    sligopark wrote: »
    the biggest problem is that they are - just check out the agreed politics between ff, fg and labour....



    by making it available to wansters and available to politicon men to manipulate for their mutual beneift above our heads and call



    By forcing a second vote and involving themselves in a fear based voting tactic with the majority of politicon parties here on this island looking out out for themselves rather than the nation's population, national interest and sovereignty

    Meglome - give it up - stop blaming the ordinary irish taxpayer who had no way to stop this givne the gombeen greedy traitorus bunch the majority of politicons have become

    As much as it is fashionable to blame the EU for everything these days, our economic problems are homegrown. Neither the EU nor our politicians forced hundreds of thousands of Irish people to buy over valued houses - typical Irish attitude, blame everyone else.


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  • #67
    meglome
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,980 ✭✭✭meglome


    sligopark wrote: »
    the biggest problem is that they are - just check out the agreed politics between ff, fg and labour....

    Really. My local TD was Tony Gregory, I didn't think he was all the same.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Gregory
    sligopark wrote: »
    by making it available to wansters and available to politicon men to manipulate for their mutual beneift above our heads and call

    I see. By that logic if someone makes a gun available that automatically means people will put them to their head and shoot. I didn't notice the Germans or the French doing what we did.
    sligopark wrote: »
    By forcing a second vote and involving themselves in a fear based voting tactic with the majority of politicon parties here on this island looking out out for themselves rather than the nation's population, national interest and sovereignty

    Sorry you've completely lost me. The EU had nothing whatsoever to do with the people we elected. I notice you didn't actually answer my questions.
    sligopark wrote: »
    Meglome - give it up - stop blaming the ordinary irish taxpayer who had no way to stop this givne the gombeen greedy traitorus bunch the majority of politicons have become

    You get the government you deserve and until we all start taking personal responsibility for what happened nothing will change. In my opinion the 'they're all the same' brigade are nearly as bad as the people who keep voting Fianna Fail in.


  • #68
    PanchoVilla
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,053 ✭✭✭PanchoVilla


    namloc1980 wrote: »
    As much as it is fashionable to blame the EU for everything these days, our economic problems are homegrown. Neither the EU nor our politicians forced hundreds of thousands of Irish people to buy over valued houses - typical Irish attitude, blame everyone else.

    The EU has imposed numerous economic policies that favor international trade over indigenous industry. Our government cannot promote Irish goods in our own country, they were actually taken to European courts in the 80s for doing so. They cannot impose tariffs on cheap goods entering the country, making it impossible for Irish industry to compete with developing countries and developed countries who operate in the third world.

    We are slowly heading towards a single, federal European state where we will be unable to make our own laws and determine our own economic policies.


  • #69
    meglome
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,980 ✭✭✭meglome


    PanchoVilla wrote: »
    The EU has imposed numerous economic policies that favor international trade over indigenous industry.

    I'm going to state the obvious now but Ireland is an export nation and the EU is by far our biggest market for those exports.
    PanchoVilla wrote: »
    Our government cannot promote Irish goods in our own country, they were actually taken to European courts in the 80s for doing so.

    Yes they can, the problem then was with how they were promoting them. Didn't you notice the Love Irish Food campaign going on now?
    PanchoVilla wrote: »
    They cannot impose tariffs on cheap goods entering the country, making it impossible for Irish industry to compete with developing countries and developed countries who operate in the third world.

    Of course we can put duties on goods from outside the EU. Only the EU nations (and a couple of others) have access to the open market.


  • #70
    Yitzhak Rabin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,225 ✭✭✭Yitzhak Rabin


    namloc1980 wrote: »
    As much as it is fashionable to blame the EU for everything these days, our economic problems are homegrown. Neither the EU nor our politicians forced hundreds of thousands of Irish people to buy over valued houses - typical Irish attitude, blame everyone else.

    I agree with you on the EU, and I certainly don't think jimmy the smugface down the road who was bragging to me about how his home has increased 50% in value doesn't deserve blame...but to absolve the government from responsibility is wrong imo.

    The Irish government (and opposition parties) were pushing tax breaks for property. They were making it as easy as possible for people to get their hands on large sums of cash, they create a situation where flipping property was a legitimate business to be in. There wasn't just a lack of regulation, there was active heating of an unsustainable bubble. Even in the face of EU, and international commentators warning us, the likes of Bertie Ahern and Charlie McCreevy scoffed at them. Bertie even went as far as suggesting economic nay-sayers should kill themselves.

    So the government does deserve a huge portion of the blame.


  • #71
    sligopark
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,620 ✭✭✭sligopark


    meglome wrote: »
    Really. My local TD was Tony Gregory, I didn't think he was all the same.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Gregory

    is this the same chap who kept ff in power? If so - yes just the same.
    meglome wrote: »
    I didn't notice the Germans or the French doing what we did.

    you're correct of course but its a misquote of sorts - their banks and governements weren't morally or literally corrupt as ours were and are.


    meglome wrote: »
    Sorry you've completely lost me. The EU had nothing whatsoever to do with the people we elected. I notice you didn't actually answer my questions.

    I have answered you're questions - the problem is you continue to throw up your incessant bullsh1t that we are too blame - in regard to the eu not being to blame - you're right again - the eu did not elect our grubby gombeen corrupt politicons but played them beautifully and used them to rob us of our sovereignty having realised (like Bertie) the problems their opening up the euro to our greedy lot was going to bring about.


    meglome wrote: »
    You get the government you deserve and until we all start taking personal responsibility for what happened nothing will change. In my opinion the 'they're all the same' brigade are nearly as bad as the people who keep voting Fianna Fail in.

    ah (YAWN) of course we are to blame when the politicos of this country have worked toward this moment of elites screw us all and get to take our cash and feck off.

    Denying that ff fg and labour are all from the same old ira beginning and have little of differentiation in their politics says more about you - than me and the nation, never mind you unwillingness to blame anyone past the ordinary irish person on the street.


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  • #72
    meglome
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,980 ✭✭✭meglome


    yekahs wrote: »
    I agree with you on the EU, and I certainly don't think jimmy the smugface down the road who was bragging to me about how his home has increased 50% in value doesn't deserve blame...but to absolve the government from responsibility is wrong imo.

    The Irish government (and opposition parties) were pushing tax breaks for property. They were making it as easy as possible for people to get their hands on large sums of cash, they create a situation where flipping property was a legitimate business to be in. There wasn't just a lack of regulation, there was active heating of an unsustainable bubble. Even in the face of EU, and international commentators warning us, the likes of Bertie Ahern and Charlie McCreevy scoffed at them. Bertie even went as far as suggesting economic nay-sayers should kill themselves.

    So the government does deserve a huge portion of the blame.

    I totally agree. But you can't separate the government from the people who elected them. People who were happy with the low taxes and high spend. People who didn't ask difficult questions or try to bring their representative's to book. Well you and me really. (Though I didn't personally vote for FF)


  • #73
    PanchoVilla
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,053 ✭✭✭PanchoVilla


    meglome wrote: »
    I'm going to state the obvious now but Ireland is an export nation and the EU is by far our biggest market for those exports.

    Yeah, we export our subsidized beef to Europe and import cheap, unregulated beef from Brazil. I wonder who benefits from that situation.
    Yes they can, the problem then was with how they were promoting them. Didn't you notice the Love Irish Food campaign going on now?

    No, they can't. Our government cannot promote Irish goods in Ireland. Private companies can, at their own expense. The Love Irish Food campaign was started by Irish companies. It had nothing to do with the government and receives no funding from the government.

    http://www.loveirishfood.ie/faq.aspx
    Of course we can put duties on goods from outside the EU. Only the EU nations (and a couple of others) have access to the open market.
    Customs Duties are taxes charged on imported goods from non-EU countries. Ireland and most EU countries do not levy customs duties taxes on goods imported from other EU countries; except for sugar or sugar-based products and according to the EU's Common Agricultural Policy (CAP). Ireland uses the EU's Common Customs Tariff (CCT) to determine the custom duties for non-EU members' importing goods, which currently range from 0 to 117%. CCT, as most import custom tariff agreements, determine the customs duty to be paid based on three elements (a) customs valuation; (b) tariff classification; and (c) country of origin.

    http://www.ibls.com/internet_law_news_portal_view.aspx?s=latestnews&id=2118

    The EU determines our customs duties on goods coming from outside the EU. We can't impose duties on European goods which affects our ability to compete with other European countries.


  • #74
    PanchoVilla
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,053 ✭✭✭PanchoVilla


    meglome wrote: »
    I totally agree. But you can't separate the government from the people who elected them. People who were happy with the low taxes and high spend. People who didn't ask difficult questions or try to bring their representative's to book. Well you and me really. (Though I didn't personally vote for FF)

    Politicians make all sorts of promises on the campaign trail then do the complete opposite once they're in power. How is that the fault of the electorate?


  • #75
    meglome
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,980 ✭✭✭meglome


    PanchoVilla wrote: »
    Politicians make all sorts of promises on the campaign trail then do the complete opposite once they're in power. How is that the fault of the electorate?

    It's the fault of the electorate when that politician gets elected a second time.


  • #76
    sligopark
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,620 ✭✭✭sligopark


    meglome wrote: »
    It's the fault of the electorate when that politician gets elected a second time.

    Is it their fault when the main politicon parties make sure there is no other choice or bring in the eu ff dogs to fight the truth of individuals like Ganley with false promises of jobs and the promotion of out right lies and then use taxpayer money to do so?


  • #77
    K-9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,313 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    PanchoVilla wrote: »

    The EU determines our customs duties on goods coming from outside the EU. We can't impose duties on European goods which affects our ability to compete with other European countries.

    And other European countries can't put levies on our exports. Works both ways.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • #78
    sligopark
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,620 ✭✭✭sligopark


    K-9 wrote: »
    And other European countries can't put levies on our exports. Works both ways.

    sorry I think the point Pancho is making is that we can't work OUR way - we are forced to sit on our hands


  • #79
    PanchoVilla
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,053 ✭✭✭PanchoVilla


    K-9 wrote: »
    And other European countries can't put levies on our exports. Works both ways.

    We don't have a huge population like France, the UK or Germany and we don't benefit from colonial industry like Belgium and the Netherlands. Our economy is supported by Irish workers, not slave labor in Africa, South America, or Asia.


  • #80
    K-9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,313 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    sligopark wrote: »
    sorry I think the point Pancho is making is that we can't work OUR way - we are forced to sit on our hands

    Well putting tariffs and levies on imports doesn't usually work out well, particularly for small countries.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • #81
    namloc1980
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,527 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    PanchoVilla wrote: »
    The EU has imposed numerous economic policies that favor international trade over indigenous industry. Our government cannot promote Irish goods in our own country, they were actually taken to European courts in the 80s for doing so.

    I presume you've missed all the campaigns promoting Irish goods then.
    PanchoVilla wrote: »
    They cannot impose tariffs on cheap goods entering the country, making it impossible for Irish industry to compete with developing countries and developed countries who operate in the third world.

    Oh dear. We can impose tarriffs on non-EU products. Plus we have unrestricted access to one of the biggest markets in the world and the last thing we need is protectionism.
    PanchoVilla wrote: »
    We are slowly heading towards a single, federal European state where we will be unable to make our own laws and determine our own economic policies.

    Personally I don't see that as a bad thing. Letting us decide our own economic policies is exactly why we are where we are now.


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  • #82
    PanchoVilla
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,053 ✭✭✭PanchoVilla


    K-9 wrote: »
    Well putting tariffs and levies on imports doesn't usually work out well, particularly for small countries.

    Tell that to the people who lost their jobs in Mallow because our Eurocentric government would rather import cheap sugar instead of supporting a national industry. Tell that to the farmers who depend on EU subsidies because it's cheaper to import unregulated produce from developing countries.


  • #83
    PanchoVilla
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,053 ✭✭✭PanchoVilla


    namloc1980 wrote: »
    I presume you've missed all the campaigns promoting Irish goods then.



    Oh dear. We can impose tarriffs on non-EU products. Plus we have unrestricted access to one of the biggest markets in the world and the last thing we need is protectionism.

    http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=69019538&postcount=73
    Personally I don't see that as a bad thing. Letting us decide our own economic policies is exactly why we are where we are now.

    We've been told what to do since we joined the EEC in 1973. It's been downhill since then. Our ship building industry was destroyed because we couldn't compete with the vast amount of cheap labor abroad. Our agricultural industry only survives because of EU subsidies.


  • #84
    sligopark
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,620 ✭✭✭sligopark


    K-9 wrote: »
    Well putting tariffs and levies on imports doesn't usually work out well, particularly for small countries.

    worked well before when the country was in the toilet - and of course before the eu talked us out of small farming (inc the ff backed eu bailout for greencore profiteers to the tune of €200 million)

    great to hear irish people defend our loss of sovereignty


  • #85
    K-9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,313 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    PanchoVilla wrote: »
    Tell that to the people who lost their jobs in Mallow because our Eurocentric government would rather import cheap sugar instead of supporting a national industry. Tell that to the farmers who depend on EU subsidies because it's cheaper to import unregulated produce from developing countries.

    So we'd put higher tariffs on agricultural imports to artificially prop up our farmers. Is that your alternative?

    What would happen our exports? Would other countries not retaliate like they did in the 30's, prolonging the depression and here, with the economic war with Britain?

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • #86
    Yitzhak Rabin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,225 ✭✭✭Yitzhak Rabin


    I think DeValera tried what you were talking about Pancho, and if I'm right protectionism worked really well, and Ireland had a booming economy, full employment and negative emigration during his tenure....

    oh wait.... actually protectionism for a rocky island on the north atlantic with almost no resources is economic suicide. Have a read of what the economy was like during the 40s and 50s if you want to see how protectionism works for Ireland.


  • #87
    K-9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,313 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    sligopark wrote: »
    worked well before when the country was in the toilet - and of course before the eu talked us out of small farming (inc the ff backed eu bailout for greencore profiteers to the tune of €200 million)

    great to hear irish people defend our loss of sovereignty

    On yeah, we did splendidly pre the EEC.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



  • #88
    sligopark
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,620 ✭✭✭sligopark


    K-9 wrote: »
    On yeah, we did splendidly pre the EEC.

    I would prefer if you didn't blur the boundaries K-9 - the diference between the EEC and the EU are wide (I am hoping you make a mistake of sticking in EEC instead of EU)

    personally I am pro europe: a europe of co-operating states for mutual beneift, a friendly cooperating free trade europe which the EEC was - I am against a federal superstate with governance without democracy and a leader elected by secret vote which the EU is.


  • #89
    namloc1980
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,527 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    PanchoVilla wrote: »
    http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=69019538&postcount=73



    We've been told what to do since we joined the EEC in 1973. It's been downhill since then. Our ship building industry was destroyed because we couldn't compete with the vast amount of cheap labor abroad. Our agricultural industry only survives because of EU subsidies.

    And your point is? We are part of a single market of 500m and we make up 0.9% of that. For a country our size have done remarkably well from the EU, protectionism De Valera style would be catastrophic to us.


  • #90
    PanchoVilla
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,053 ✭✭✭PanchoVilla


    yekahs wrote: »
    I think DeValera tried what you were talking about Pancho, and if I'm right protectionism worked really well, and Ireland had a booming economy, full employment and negative emigration during his tenure....

    oh wait.... actually protectionism for a rocky island on the north atlantic with almost no resources is economic suicide. Have a read of what the economy was like during the 40s and 50s if you want to see how protectionism works for Ireland.

    I'd rather have protectionism and have a chance to develop our own economy and industry than be at the mercy of international investors and foreign markets. You say protectionism didn't work but I say our nation was only just starting and we needed to find a good way of doing things. We had lots of resources in this country before we handed the rights to exploit them to foreign companies.


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  • #91
    sligopark
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,620 ✭✭✭sligopark


    namloc1980 wrote: »
    And your point is? We are part of a single market of 500m and we make up 0.9% of that. For a country our size have done remarkably well from the EU, protectionism De Valera style would be catastrophic to us.


    And as pointed out the EEC was good for us - the EU will never be.


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