The EU is the Fourth Reich

sligopark

humanji wrote: »

Yes you are missing something. Not all member states were present at the vote. As I said in the other thread, Ahern should have organised them to show up to veto the plan under QMV, but he didn't. We didn't just decide to hand anything over. This is how politics works. It's not always about creating a conspiracy.

and had irish interests shown up and the qmv still voted for it we would have had no say?

Brown Bomber

PanchoVilla wrote: »

I guess that would be European democracy in action. So, instead of sanctioning Israel for stealing information and using it to create false passports for their assassins, we decided to just willingly hand over whatever they want. Am I missing something here? Are they threating to fly more planes into London or Paris if we refuse to give them the info?

Vote Yes for Jobs...For Israeli hitmen.

PanchoVilla

humanji wrote: »

Yes you are missing something. Not all member states were present at the vote. As I said in the other thread, Ahern should have organised them to show up to veto the plan under QMV, but he didn't. We didn't just decide to hand anything over. This is how politics works. It's not always about creating a conspiracy.

That doesn't make sense. This was a matter of national and international security. Member states should have been required to vote, though I think the EU should have rejected any deal and prosecuted Israel for identity theft for the assassination in Egypt. Conspiracy or no conspiracy, it's a complete disgrace and Ireland should reconsider it's membership of the EU. They threaten the safety and security of citizens of this country. On that note, here's an interesting post from the politics forum.

Hi Panchovilla,

In order to announce your EU citizenship, you would have to renounce your Irish citizenship. It is your Irish citizenship that makes you an EU citizen.

Conversely, this also means that you couldn't renounce your Irish citizenship, yet remain an EU citizen, since EU citizenship is dependent on national citizenship.

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056089893

Seems our Irish citizenship is entirely dependent on our EU citizenship. We are no longer a sovereign, independent nation but a state in the United States of Europe. Is this what Lisbon was all about? I don't remember seeing that on the Yes campaign posters.

sligopark

PanchoVilla wrote: »

I don't remember seeing that on the Yes campaign posters.

Don't rremember anything of truth on those posters myself

.... remember 'Vote YES for JOBS'

if it weren't so sad I wold have added LOL on the end

humanji

PanchoVilla wrote: »

That doesn't make sense. This was a matter of national and international security. Member states should have been required to vote, though I think the EU should have rejected any deal and prosecuted Israel for identity theft for the assassination in Egypt. Conspiracy or no conspiracy, it's a complete disgrace and Ireland should reconsider it's membership of the EU. They threaten the safety and security of citizens of this country. On that note, here's an interesting post from the politics forum.

I agree, they should have all been involved, but just like our Dail session, some members think they have better things to do than to run the country. But this is definitely not something to back out of Europe for.

PanchoVilla wrote: »

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056089893

Seems our Irish citizenship is entirely dependent on our EU citizenship. We are no longer a sovereign, independent nation but a state in the United States of Europe. Is this what Lisbon was all about? I don't remember seeing that on the Yes campaign posters.

Ireland is in Europe. If you are Irish, you are also European. How did you not realise that? It's nothing to do with Irish sovereignty.

sligopark wrote: »

Don't rremember anything of truth on those posters myself

.... remember 'Vote YES for JOBS'

if it weren't so sad I wold have added LOL on the end

It's worth ironically noting that after Lisbon a company created, I think 24 jobs in Ireland and credited their decision specifically because of the Lisbon treaty passing. So that's at least one bullsh*t slogan that actually came true.

namloc1980

PanchoVilla wrote: »

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056089893

Seems our Irish citizenship is entirely dependent on our EU citizenship. We are no longer a sovereign, independent nation but a state in the United States of Europe. Is this what Lisbon was all about? I don't remember seeing that on the Yes campaign posters.

Citizenship has nothing to do with Lisbon!?! Citizenship of the EU was established by the Maastricht Treaty in 1992:

Maastricht Treaty wrote:

Article 8.1

Citizenship of the Union is hereby established. Every person holding the nationality of a Member State shall be a citizen of the Union.

This is what Lisbon has been amended to:

Lisbon Treaty wrote:

Article 20.1

Citizenship of the Union is hereby established. Every person holding the nationality of a Member State shall be a citizen of the Union. Citizenship of the Union shall be additional to and not replace national citizenship.

Torakx

Kind of like the feds in the states.Or reminds me of it a little.Maybe alot more complicated as politics is evolving.

ClovenHoof

Johnny Utah wrote: »

The Yes campaign for Lisbon II was particularly sinister. They did absolutely everything within their power to get the vote through. The sad thing is the three main political parties in this country all bowed to their overlords in Brussels at the time..... Treason of the highest order.

It is such a simple and obvious realisation on so many levels. It disturbs Irish people to think they may have sold out their country for brightly coloured poster on a lamppost.

Irish people are real "proud and patriotic" wearing Man U, Liverpool and Celtic jerseys at the Arriva Stadium cheering on Ireland... - but the Irish psyche simply does not have the psychological nor emotional and especially cognative awareness to come to terms with the obvious realities staring them in the face. We are a simple childlike race who needs a daddy to make the bad man go away. We are not interested in thinking about anything beyond what we have been told to think - we just want our "facts" handed to us from the media. Then we "debate" the two sides of the issues pre-selected for our discussion. If anyone dares to offer something from outside the box - then we lose it.

We hide under the bed and wait for Pat Kenny, John Bowman or some George Lee to made the scary opinion we can't handle go away.

Look how in this country the same people of the past claimed the catholic church was not a den of child rapists for decades, now their children are claiming the EU is as pure as the driven snow and voting for the Lisbon Treaty was a patriotic act.

People who voted YES to the Lisbon Treaty will regret it one day. I think many thousands already do and not ready to admit it yet. But they will in time. Until then people who see the obvious will have to deal with being declared as mentally unstable and so on.

Nothing has changed since the days of Plato's Cave. So wait we must until reality comes boiling to the surface like it always does. Until then, shadow puppets made for them on the wall is all the reality they need...

fontanalis

ClovenHoof wrote: »

It is such a simple and obvious realisation on so many levels. It disturbs Irish people to think they may have sold out their country for brightly coloured poster on a lamppost.

Irish people are real "proud and patriotic" wearing Man U, Liverpool and Celtic jerseys at the Arriva Stadium cheering on Ireland... - but the Irish psyche simply does not have the psychological nor emotional and especially cognative awareness to come to terms with the obvious realities staring them in the face. We are a simple childlike race who needs a daddy to make the bad man go away. We are not interested in thinking about anything beyond what we have been told to think - we just want our "facts" handed to us from the media. Then we "debate" the two sides of the issues pre-selected for our discussion. If anyone dares to offer something from outside the box - then we lose it.

We hide under the bed and wait for Pat Kenny, John Bowman or some George Lee to made the scary opinion we can't handle go away.

Look how in this country the same people of the past claimed the catholic church was not a den of child rapists for decades, now their children are claiming the EU is as pure as the driven snow and voting for the Lisbon Treaty was a patriotic act.

People who voted YES to the Lisbon Treaty will regret it one day. I think many thousands already do and not ready to admit it yet. But they will in time. Until then people who see the obvious will have to deal with being declared as mentally unstable and so on.

Nothing has changed since the days of Plato's Cave. So wait we must until reality comes boiling to the surface like it always does. Until then, shadow puppets made for them on the wall is all the reality they need...

Everyone apart from you obviously. .
The only reason ireland has to go crawling to the EU is because of the Irish people. It wasn't the EU who forced people into buying overpriced shoe boxes, they didn't elect Bertie Aherne, Charlie MCCreevy, Brian Lenihan, Frank Fahey etc but I suppose you do

fontanalis

meglome wrote: »

The EU didn't make us do anything, not only that they warned us about what we were doing. Did we take the advice? hell no we laughed at them. Now we're begging for help or we go down the toilet. Bailing out the banks wasn't political suicide or necessarily wrong. Now how they went about it is very much up for debate. The EU may have gone along with this but they didn't decide what to do, our government did. So why you keep talking about secret EU meetings is beyond me.



We operated a protectionist fully Irish, fully De Valera policy back in the day. It's left us a poor basket case, where the best hope you had was an education you could use in another country. Yeah people worked hard, pity it wasn't in Ireland as there was no jobs. I don't even know what to say to you if you want to go back to that, we are living on different planets.

God, why can't peopel get this into their head. The whole EU is evil and wants Ireland is narcicistic, avoiding repsonsibility for our actions nonsesne and only deflects blame from the people who cause the mess.

meglome

ClovenHoof wrote: »

People who voted YES to the Lisbon Treaty will regret it one day. I think many thousands already do and not ready to admit it yet. But they will in time. Until then people who see the obvious will have to deal with being declared as mentally unstable and so on.

I'm very unclear what did Lisbon do exactly that we should regret? Can you explain?

fontanalis

sligopark wrote: »

Our politicon men were bought off by irish banksters, when they were getting mega rich, we were thrown titibits and now these banksters have massive losses we the taxpayer are being forced to pay and they are free to live the high life.

Elected (repeatedly) representatives.

K-9

ClovenHoof wrote: »

It is such a simple and obvious realisation on so many levels. It disturbs Irish people to think they may have sold out their country for brightly coloured poster on a lamppost.

Irish people are real "proud and patriotic" wearing Man U, Liverpool and Celtic jerseys at the Arriva Stadium cheering on Ireland... - but the Irish psyche simply does not have the psychological nor emotional and especially cognative awareness to come to terms with the obvious realities staring them in the face. We are a simple childlike race who needs a daddy to make the bad man go away. We are not interested in thinking about anything beyond what we have been told to think - we just want our "facts" handed to us from the media. Then we "debate" the two sides of the issues pre-selected for our discussion. If anyone dares to offer something from outside the box - then we lose it.

We hide under the bed and wait for Pat Kenny, John Bowman or some George Lee to made the scary opinion we can't handle go away.

Look how in this country the same people of the past claimed the catholic church was not a den of child rapists for decades, now their children are claiming the EU is as pure as the driven snow and voting for the Lisbon Treaty was a patriotic act.

People who voted YES to the Lisbon Treaty will regret it one day. I think many thousands already do and not ready to admit it yet. But they will in time. Until then people who see the obvious will have to deal with being declared as mentally unstable and so on.

Nothing has changed since the days of Plato's Cave. So wait we must until reality comes boiling to the surface like it always does. Until then, shadow puppets made for them on the wall is all the reality they need...

[IMG][/img]http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_SqkFcytz7qE/SxczexsFRpI/AAAAAAAAAJw/-AaQYwUgdKA/s640/platosCave%2520copy.jpg

Stop blaming the bad man in Brussels.

fontanalis

K-9 wrote: »

Stop blaming the bad man in Brussels.

What did Brussels do? There's a reason Irelands broke, or did they engineer the property bubble too?

K-9

fontanalis wrote: »

What did Brussels do? There's a reason Irelands broke, or did they engineer the property bubble too?

Lisbon doesn't matter.

If it wasn't Brussels, it would be the IMF.

Ireland, Latvia and Iceland have feck all economic sovereignty. Blaming the Euro, the EU or Lisbon is nonsense, they all fecked up and have pay masters to answer too.

fontanalis

K-9 wrote: »

Lisbon doesn't matter.

If it wasn't Brussels, it would be the IMF.

Ireland, Latvia and Iceland have feck all economic sovereignty. Blaming the Euro, the EU or Lisbon is nonsense, they all fecked up and have pay masters to answer too.

Word salad, I didn't expect much of you to be honest, If you're part of the future knowledge economoy there's no hope.

K-9

fontanalis wrote: »

Word salad, I didn't expect much of you to be honest, If you're part of the future knowledge economoy there's no hope.

Care to expand beyond the personal dig?

Torakx

fontanalis wrote: »

Elected (repeatedly) representatives.

Yes all were elected but what choice does the uneducated(dare i say mind controlled) masses have?
They are spoon fed to believe they have a choice between this side and that without realising they can simply not vote if they are unhappy with all parties.
If hardly anyone voted and 1/4 were standing outside government buildings fighting off riot police, the rest of the country might take an interest and start asking more questions.
The issue imo really is, even if those questions were asked by a majority, the government(and whoever they are liable to unnofficially) still has control of the Irish media for the most part and if they didnt it might be some other outside power influencing the majority who are enslaved to their tv.

We can argue about enslavement and mind control to the cows come home but i think everyone here knows by now just how effective advertising/propoganda is.
In every recent war its been utilized to some degree and the more the world is sharing info and bussiness the more powerful and effective "advertising" is becoming.
The majority of people who spend most of their evenings watching television i think would be susceptable to walking themselves right into a fourth reich situation.My own family included.
I have kind of given up on this country after Lisbon got voted in on the second assault.I am just waiting for it all to come crashing down on us.
I dont believe this recession/resource collection is over yet.
Next bubble might not be for a good few years and il be old by then.

digme

It's not the EU, it's Germany.

@7:25

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHD2gUAxAEc

caseyann

digme wrote: »

It's not the EU, it's Germany.

@7:25

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHD2gUAxAEc

I heard something about that today,Germany been the issue.I dint get the full story though.

namloc1980

caseyann wrote: »

I heard something about that today,Germany been the issue.I dint get the full story though.

Germany is by far the biggest economy in the Eurozone. Whether we like it or not they call the shots.

sligopark

caseyann wrote: »

I heard something about that today,Germany been the issue.I dint get the full story though.

The story is that germany are pushing hard for Ireland to take the bailout since that will mean those german banks who are heavily indebted to irish banks will get paid out and leave the irish taxpayer to bail out german bank loans to ireland - why should the irish taxpayer pay for a german bank bailout too? This principle seems to be point of issue for the irish (ff/banksters) not wanting to take a bailout and favour a default or renegotiation of bond holders interest ala most irish economists view.

if mr potatoe head and brian the traitor holdout it might well be the first decision they have made for the irish taxpayer since this trouble broke.

They have bankrupted the country and endangered the european region.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056054930

K-9

sligopark wrote: »

The story is that germany are pushing hard for Ireland to take the bailout since that will mean those german banks who are heavily indebted to irish banks will get paid out and leave the irish taxpayer to bail out german bank loans to ireland - why should the irish taxpayer pay for a german bank bailout too? This principle seems to be point of issue for the irish (ff/banksters) not wanting to take a bailout and favour a default or renegotiation of bond holders interest ala most irish economists view.

if mr potatoe head and brian the traitor holdout it might well be the first decision they have made for the irish taxpayer since this trouble broke.

They have bankrupted the country and endangered the european region.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056054930

Basically a small country, less than 1% of the EU population, holds near 20% of the bail out fund, in propping up Irish banks and they haven't a snowball's chance in Hell of getting it back!

sligopark

K-9 wrote: »

Basically a small country, less than 1% of the EU population, holds near 20% of the bail out fund, in propping up Irish banks and they haven't a snowball's chance in Hell of getting it back!

well put - how much is europe willing to pay to keep the euro afloat?

Why doesn't the Irish government go to russia, china or the us for a bail out?

K-9

sligopark wrote: »

well put - how much is europe willing to pay to keep the euro afloat?

Why doesn't the Irish government go to russia, china or the us for a bail out?

Who knows? They are in for up to €130 Billion in ECB funds in Irish banks.

Iceland looked for money from Russia, not sure if they got it, but very onerous conditions were being attached, IIRC. Scandinavian countries are a big part of their bail out, with conditions attached.

Basically, everybody looks for conditions. Beggars can't be choosers and all that.

At least with the EU, there is some common interest.

sligopark

K-9 wrote: »

At least with the EU, there is some common interest.

Agreed - saving German and french banks and having irish taxpayers bail them out via a forced sovereign bailout from the IMF

K-9

sligopark wrote: »

Agreed - saving German and french banks and having irish taxpayers bail them out via a forced sovereign bailout from the IMF

We don't have to accept it.

We just wont be able to borrow to pay wages and welfare come February/March next year, that's all.

sligopark

so then who will bail out the IMF when fianna fail are finished with them?

Run_to_da_hills

The IMF could be described as the commercial wing of the Fourt Reich.

meglome

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

The IMF could be described as the commercial wing of the Fourt Reich.

We probably shouldn't have squandered all that money then.