Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi there,
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest
Jack Russell Puppies - Tail Docking thoughts???
Comments
-
i wasn't (good point though
)
iwas going to say its the removal of an animals internal organs.
in his case- his gonads.
i understand it stops them marking their turf (weeing in the house etc)
but all's your doing is infinitely worse imo;) than docking.
i've heardof neutering to calm animals down- i think its worse than docking.
BTW- i don't like docking - i had a Boxer with a full tail (have only seen a couple since)
but despite Discodogs protestations its not illegal.
some frown upon it, some don't
IMO- Speying ie the surgical removal of the uterus and ovaries from the abdomen of Female cats is the equivalent of a full hysterectomy.
cats don't want it-never have-never will yet its still done daily.
the added protection from certain diseases is a nice aside,but is oft used as an excuse to get it done.
99 times out ofa 100 speying/neutering is done for the owners benefitas well as the animals.
I have rescue dogs- i have to get them done.
i don't want to. i must.:(
they were born with their bits-n-bobs and inners.... they should be left with them.
same for tails.
same for ears.
vanity is an obnoxious excuse ( Plastic surgery in humans also imo)
Excuse my ignorance (again) but in neutering a MALE cat you are not interfering with INTERNAL organs per se
Internal organs IMHO are things like lungs, liver, heart etc
Rescues insist on neutering (as far as i know) to try and reduce the amount of strays they end up with every year
Neutering an animal should not be an exercise in vanity
Docking IS an exercise in vanity
That's the difference0 -
-
kaiser sauze wrote: »Getting cats spayed/neutered is a world apart from dog spaying/neutering.
ok, how come?
Genuinely i haven't a clue about mutts I'm a moggy person
0 -
if people here get their animals spayed/speyed/neutered etc for non life threatening treatments isn't that a much worse crime than Docking
Your not seriously going to tell us that mutilating a pup for asthetic reasons under local or no anesthetic is comparable to spaying a dog under general anesthetic to help prevent hormone related tumors and prevention or complete elimination or uterine pymotera.
This claim would have no credibility whatsoever. What is a non life-threatening treatment? I'm not familiar with this term, is this a reference to some sorts of alternative therapies or something 0 -
-
Advertisement
-
-
-
adrenalinjunkie wrote: »Your not seriously going to tell us that mutilating a pup for asthetic reasons under local or no anesthetic is comparable to spaying a dog under general anesthetic to help prevent hormone related tumors and prevention or complete elimination or uterine pymotera.
This claim would have no credibility whatsoever. What is a non life-threatening treatment? I'm not familiar with this term, is this a reference to some sorts of alternative therapies or something
No.
please re-read my pos . FFS.
you're not seriously gonna put words in me mouth are you:rolleyes: 0 -
No.
please re-read my pos . FFS.
you're not seriously gonna put words in me mouth are you:rolleyes:
I'm not trying to put words in your mouth at all, you said thisif people here get their animals spayed/speyed/neutered etc for non life threatening treatments isn't that a much worse crime than Docking
As I all ready said, I have no idea what you mean by "non life threatening treatment"
From my point of view the fact that I don't have to worry about my bitches heat cycles is a 'nice aside'
I find it odd that you yourself have rescue dogs yet don't understand the logic of the shelters for the only 100% effective method of preventing further unwanted dogs being created.
(I haven't mentioned docking once in this post therefore now going off-topic, this is for a different thread of which there have been plenty already)0 -
adrenalinjunkie wrote: »I'm not trying to put words in your mouth at all, you said this
As I all ready said, I have no idea what you mean by "non life threatening treatment"
From my point of view the fact that I don't have to worry about my bitches heat cycles is a 'nice aside'
I find it odd that you yourself have rescue dogs yet don't understand the logic of the shelters for the only 100% effective method of preventing further unwanted dogs being created.
(I haven't mentioned docking once in this post therefore now going off-topic, this is for a different thread of which there have been plenty already)
then whydidn't you just put the above in your OP??
instead you put this:Your not seriously going to tell us that mutilating a pup for asthetic reasons under local or no anesthetic is comparable to spaying a dog under general anesthetic to help prevent hormone related tumors and prevention or complete elimination or uterine pymotera.
This claim would have no credibility whatsoever. What is a non life-threatening treatment? I'm not familiar with this term, is this a reference to some sorts of alternative therapies or something
i never mentioned aesthetics,anaesthetics,mutilation,tumors etc etc..
you're sensationalising Docking.
there are pro's and con's to every procedure.
you are correct in your OP about Uterine pymotera,but it is treatable... but the crux is .. its costly.
hence the prudence in getting it done early.
here's a question... what about show dogs????
they can't win if they're fixed...
so , if they can win a title.. feck the health risks???Advantages
Besides being a birth control method, and being convenient to the owner, neutering/spaying has the following health benefits:- Sexually dimorphic behaviors such as mounting, urine spraying and some forms of male aggression (relating to females in estrus) may be reduced due to the decrease in hormone levels brought about by neutering. This is an especially significant benefit in male cats due to the extreme undesirability of male cat sexual behavior for pet owners.[2]
- Prevention of mammary tumors: Female cats and dogs are about seven times more likely to develop mammary tumors if they are not spayed before their first heat cycle.[3] Female dogs that have been spayed before their first heat have a lifetime chance of developing mammary tumors of about 99.5% less than that of intact females. If allowed to go through their first heat before spaying, then their risk is close to 92% less. Also, spaying female dogs more than two years before the removal of mammary tumors increases the dog's survival odds by 45%.[4]
- Without its ability to reproduce, a female animal effectively has a zero risk of pregnancy complications, such as spotting and false pregnancies, the latter of which can occur in more than 50% of unspayed female dogs.[5]
URL="http://www.boards.ie/w/index.php?title=Neutering&action=edit§ion=4"][COLOR=#0645ad]edit[/COLOR][/URL General- As with any surgical procedure, immediate complications of neutering include the usual anesthetic and surgical complications, such as bleeding and infection. These risks are relatively low in routine spaying and neutering; however, they may be increased for some animals due to other pre-existing health factors. In one study the risk of anesthetic-related death (not limited to neutering procedures) was estimated at 0.05% for healthy dogs and 0.11% for healthy cats. The risk for sick dogs and cats were 1.33% and 1.40% respectively.[6]
- Neutered dogs of both sexes are at a twofold excess risk to develop osteosarcoma as compared to intact dogs,[7][8][9]
- Studies of cardiac tumors in dogs showed that there was a 5 times greater risk of hemangiosarcoma, one of the three most common cancers in dogs, in spayed females than intact females and a 2.4 times greater risk of hemangiosarcoma in neutered dogs as compared to intact males[10][11]
- Spaying and neutering is associated with an increase in urinary tract cancers.[12]
- Neutered dogs of both sexes have a 27% to 38% increased risk of adverse reactions to vaccinations. The incidence of adverse reactions for neutered and intact dogs combined is 0.32%[13]
- A 2004 study found that spayed and neutered dogs had a higher incidence of CCL rupture, a form of ACL injury[15]
- Early age gonadectomy was found to be associated with an increased incidence of noise phobias and undesirable sexual behaviors[16]
0 -
Advertisement
-
-
-
kaiser sauze wrote: »How do you riddle this one out?
Can you translatekaiser sauze wrote: »The method I use is well known, there is no secret or mysticism involved. The fact that you are up on your soapbox over those who use knives, and other sharp implements, and projecting your vitriol over them onto me is amusing.
People can ask "why" all they like, I am not here to justify it, but I am here as a counterbalance to a one-sided argument that uses knife wielding crazies as their target.
So you believe that banding, placing a tight rubber band over the tail to kill it, is humane & way better than cutting. This Vet disagrees & has a suggestion as to what he would like to do with one of those bands !.
"Using elastrator bands causes prolonged pain in the puppy and is one of the least humane methods around. Imagine having a tight elastic band around your own, or even worse your baby's finger until it literally rots and falls off. Tetanus can also very easily develop in puppies with this barbaric method. The Clostridium tetani bug causing tetanus is an anaerobic bacterium which means that it lives in an environment with very low oxygen. The bloodless necrotic stump of a puppy's tail docked in this way is an ideal medium for Clostridia to grow in.
The elastrator ring was originally designed for the castration and docking of lambs tails. I would love to use it in the way it was originally intended on the people advocating this barbaric form of tail docking."
Gerry Retief
Veterinarian.
Owner: Montwood Park Veterinary Clinic0 -
Can you translate
So you believe that banding, placing a tight rubber band over the tail to kill it, is humane & way better than cutting. This Vet disagrees & has a suggestion as to what he would like to do with one of those bands !.
"Using elastrator bands causes prolonged pain in the puppy and is one of the least humane methods around. Imagine having a tight elastic band around your own, or even worse your baby's finger until it literally rots and falls off. Tetanus can also very easily develop in puppies with this barbaric method. The Clostridium tetani bug causing tetanus is an anaerobic bacterium which means that it lives in an environment with very low oxygen. The bloodless necrotic stump of a puppy's tail docked in this way is an ideal medium for Clostridia to grow in.
The elastrator ring was originally designed for the castration and docking of lambs tails. I would love to use it in the way it was originally intended on the people advocating this barbaric form of tail docking."
Gerry Retief
Veterinarian.
Owner: Montwood Park Veterinary Clinic
why quote a Sth. African vet????0 -
-
Yeah DD surely you know that pups in Sth. Africa are completly different to the pups we have here.
people in Sth Africa are different it seems......
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-117174660 -
-
-
-
-
Advertisement
-
-
-
-
you must forgive me as i thought you were being 'smart' with this comment.Yeah DD surely you know that pups in Sth. Africa are completly different to the pups we have here.
were you
DD seems to feel quite strongly about this,we've seen otherthreads where its been maintained that it's illegal when DD knows well its not (in ireland)How is it a matter of opinion? Do you mean that because he is South African, you think what he is saying has less relevance than if he was Irish?
of course not. (raciallyspeaking)I don't understand.
(EDIT: Before you say I'm putting words into your mouth, I'm not, I'm wondering what you mean by saying it's a matter of opinion, how relevant his quotation is, based on where he is from.)
you're grand;)
my earlier quote
i just find it strange that a quote from Irish vet can't be found......
is docking illegal in SA??
(seeing as how its not here,might explain lack of comments)
certain things may be illegal elsewhere other than ireland,therefore quotes from said place would tend to make stronger arguements against said illegal operations. for instance -Docking.0 -
-
-
-
-
I'm really not - A vet is quoted explaining the risks of docking, and you're talking about it not being relevant as he is south african, then saying it is relevant but still, somehow, not? Because docking may or may not be illegal in S.A.i'm not :pac:... methinks you might be
legalities have nothing to do with what tht vet said. where he is from has nothing to do with what he said. what he said was about pain and risk of infection.
Do you agree?0 -
Advertisement
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
Advertisement
-
-
No need to be sarcastic.
Of course attitudes are going to be different but the legalities of the country has absolutely no relelvance as to whether or not pups feel pain, or are open to infection on getting their tails docked. The vet didn't say "in my opinion...." he stated a medical fact. And you appear to be questioning this medical fact, based on where the vet is from.
Can you accept that?
sorry- i wasn't being sarcastic..
i would've used this:rolleyes:.
to be fair he quotes fact and opinion.
i'm not questioning medical fact,i'm questioning why an irish vets quote can't be found.
again i ain't pro docking. just curious is all.0 -
-
-
The caps, the "I already answered this" etc came across as sarcasm. As does this little fella. But if you didn't mean it sarcastically then disregard the first line of my post.
So he's from Aus, where according to the bit you quoted, even castration can be carried out with "careful instructions" (:eek:). But he still disagrees with docking due to the pain and infection factor. So going by your opinion; that where your from has a bearing on how you would feel about this, it's an even stronger argument against docking.
(yes it's logical {I think}) 0 -
Advertisement
-
The caps, the "I already answered this" etc came across as sarcasm. As does this little fella. But if you didn't mean it sarcastically then disregard the first line of my post.
seriously-it wasn'tSo he's from Aus, where according to the bit you quoted, even castration can be carried out with "careful instructions" (:eek:). But he still disagrees with docking due to the pain and infection factor. So going by your opinion; that where your from has a bearing on how you would feel about this, it's an even stronger argument against docking.
(yes it's logical {I think})
but its not when taken into consideration with my other points.
if i had a farm in mid australia,several 100kms from a vet(quite a reasonable assumption considering distances between petrol stations-never mind towns)
then i'd self dock/self medicate/upon advice obviously.0 -
-
Originally Posted by Graces7
SA vets are clearly waaaaaaaaaay ahead of Irish vets. And more caring and realistic clearly also.
They do this to lambs too. Barbaric.
That is a huge generalisation to make, if you had read the whole thread, and the other one about tail docking you would have seen what the majority of Irish vets think about this practice
Not at all... In ten years in Ireland we have not found a vet we can trust with our animals. The only reason our collie is still alive is that we found other resources. Had we trusted the vet? And that is not the only time. Each can only go by experience surely.
Had I hours to spare I would relate all. Not just one vet but time after time after time.
And yes we are in rural areas but still.. We know many others who will only use vets from eg Germany also.
A matter of personal choice
yes I have read the whole thread and the other one, but that does not alter my opinion. The fact is that docking is still legal in ireland; if vets truly thought it was wrong, they would had it changed. Words are cheap0 -
-
-
-
-
Well I agree with you on doctors - I trust my vet more than I do my doctor lol.
Thats a disgrace about potentially fatal errors. I've never had that before, although I know someone who lost a dog when he was put under anaesthetic at 13 years old. Her instinct said not to allow it, the vet recommended it, and her old man never recovered and died a week later. She is convinced that the extra pressure was too much for his heart.
I think yes that you are very lucky.
Once or even twice I could excuse, but our catalogue of bad encounters is too long. We are deeply grateful to folk here who have supported us in so many of these events.
And to the internet also of course. And to family dog breeder/trainers in Canada.
Mind you, I feel much the same re doctors for the same reasons. And I do not think it is a bad thing to challenge and question. To know what is being done and why and to say no if need be. These lessons have been learned in avery hard school indeed here and we are at peace about this. Trust has to be earned now; too much suffering to do else.
If anything is prescribed, for us, for the dogs, we check the internet fully. Always. And there have been many potentially fatal errors made.0 -
-
-
Advertisement
This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement