Dublin Bus route 145 :(

SickCert · 10-10-2010 09:19PM

Bazzer2 wrote: »

It's either that or nothing. If you don't like it, don't blame the drivers or the inspectors. Blame the Head Office by making as many complaints as possible.

Too true, if this 145 topic is wrapped up this week. Another needs to be started on the Rock Rd services asap.

Phase 1 needs to be sorted before they wreck other parts of the city.

foggy_lad · 11-10-2010 12:00AM

Bazzer2 wrote: »

Can we get this straight once and for all. Drivers do not go 'asleep' or 'missing' or whatever else.

Dublin Bus Head Office in their wisdom decide the timetables. The inspectors are then given those timetables to work with, whether workable or not. In the case of the 39, it is not physically possible during the daytime to operate a ten-minute service, so they operate about every fifteen minutes instead.

It's either that or nothing. If you don't like it, don't blame the drivers or the inspectors. Blame the Head Office by making as many complaints as possible.

but when out in blanchardstown centre for approximately 10minutes 4 citybound 39s went by so they are operating one every 10 minutes but because of delays and late starts the system gets screwed up!

if bus a is due to leave at 2pm and is a few minutes late it means there is going to be far more people at its city stops along prussia st etc so the bus that leaves a few minutes after it is going to go ahead of it almost empty and will run ahead of time because of this meaning the third bus also has more passengers at stops and this cycle continues getting worse until the whole thing collapses and several busses dont turn up. two busses were missing at rush hour on saturday afternoon on one of the busiest routes in the city and you say drivers are in no way to blame?

KD345 · 11-10-2010 12:11AM

Foggy, buses get delayed for so many different reasons. The fact that two buses in a row did not depart suggests that there was a hold up somewhere along the route. Perhaps an accident, a protest, a diversion - any number of reasons.

Why do you feel the need to constantly single out bus drivers with insults? Unless you know the specific reason for the delay it's unfair to accuse drivers of going missing or falling asleep. There is a contact number on every timetable for the depot. If you are delayed again then ring the relevant depot and find out the problem. Usually the manager there is happy to assist with any query.

I find the 39 to be punctual at weekends with buses mostly departing on time.

trellheim · 11-10-2010 09:48AM

In the case of the 39, it is not physically possible during the daytime to operate a ten-minute service

somebody explain this please ? Surely with enough drivers and buses this is possible.

Cookie_Monster · 11-10-2010 10:14AM

trellheim wrote: »

somebody explain this please ? Surely with enough drivers and buses this is possible.

of course but due to the lazy and stupid rostering that DB has done they cannot maintain the timetabled services with the buses they have allocated to it. the running time is too short and takes little or no account of traffic and stop load time

trellheim · 11-10-2010 11:44AM

there must be some experience at rostering. Surely it's they haven't gone back to monkeys flinging poo at the whiteboards again ?

Cookie_Monster · 11-10-2010 11:53AM

trellheim wrote: »

there must be some experience at rostering. Surely it's they haven't gone back to monkeys flinging poo at the whiteboards again ?

you would have thought, and with a highly professional and experienced company like Deloitte (:pac::pac::pac:) advising them it should have been even harder to **** it up so bad, but they managed it anyway

SickCert · 11-10-2010 12:10PM

trellheim wrote: »

there must be some experience at rostering. Surely it's they haven't gone back to monkeys flinging poo at the whiteboards again ?

Sadly its being delivered by the bucket load.
If monkey says it take 50 mins to do a trip, monkey allocates 40mins.

foggy_lad · 11-10-2010 01:23PM

SickCert wrote: »

Sadly its being delivered by the bucket load.
If monkey says it take 50 mins to do a trip, monkey allocates 40mins.

but they wee out driving the routes(at 4.30am) before they allocated the times so if the managers can do it in 40 minutes then sirely the drivers can too:)

ronn · 11-10-2010 04:42PM

foggy_lad wrote: »

but they wee out driving the routes(at 4.30am) before they allocated the times so if the managers can do it in 40 minutes then sirely the driver

a journey at 4.30am may take 40 mins, but a journey during rush hour could take 2 hrs,

Tourman · 11-10-2010 04:51PM

It appears that the problem with the 145 is simple. In an attempt to achieve better productivity DB believed their own hype, i.e. that not sending a few buses to bray dart station would improve the entire 145 route by 10 minutes which they then deducted from the running time on the route in addition to this the route was increased by 2.5 km in the city center which takes 10 to 15 minutes to cover. Increased productivity could have been gained while maintaining a credible service by either reducing the running time or increasing the route length but not both.
My biggest fear is that enough people have been turned away from the service that will cause DB management to reduce the frequency because of lake of customers and this in turn will lead to more customers finding alternative modes of transport leading to further reductions and a downward spiral

AlekSmart · 11-10-2010 11:51PM

A journey at 4.30am may take 40 mins, but a journey during rush hour could take 2 hrs,

Possibly the best example of this Ronn,is the NEW ! IMPROVED! Route 47...where,it appears, all journeys are allocated 1 hr,on or off peak.

It`s an interesting concept and doubtless provides hours of stimulating thinking on the flight deck,but it`s not much good to those recent converts to the 47......ah well sure was`nt it a good idea at the time

My biggest fear is that enough people have been turned away from the service that will cause DB management to reduce the frequency because of lake of customers and this in turn will lead to more customers finding alternative modes of transport leading to further reductions and a downward spiral

Tourman is on-the-money here right enough.

The actual level of customer anger and disillusionment which is being directed at drivers as a result of the Phase 1 "enhancements" is very high indeed.

One only has to look at the faces in the now ever-present queues to get a sense of the frustration and anger.

Phase 1 represented a poker game for very large stakes indeed and it`s debatable just how many chips have been lost.

The events of the past three weeks really do need to be the subject of some very intense self interrogation on Dublin Bus`s part.

However I do not believe all is lost just yet.

What really matters now is what approach the company will adopt to the thousands of customers who have been treated less than fairly in all of this.

It is now a matter of focusing upon finding some means of reinstilling customer confidence in the Dublin Bus brand and product.

I`m not certain that anybody necessarily appreciates just how much of our feet we have blown off here and the amount of work it will now take to get ourselves back walking again.

In years to come I`ll wager the Marketing colleges will be using ND Phase 1 as a case study in how not to impliment major network change within large organizations....:)

Cookie_Monster · 12-10-2010 09:42AM

so the new plan is supposed to be enforce today, how'd rush-hour work out?

foggy_lad · 12-10-2010 09:47AM

Success all depends on whether the drivers actively support the new plan!

-Chris- · 12-10-2010 10:16AM

That's all well and good, but how did rush hour actually work out?

AlekSmart · 12-10-2010 10:39AM

So the new plan is supposed to be enforce today, how'd rush-hour work out?

No new plan as yet Cookie,it`s being finalized as we speak.

Currently the route is being "augmented" and assisted by various means in an attempt to maintain some form of headway.

Hopefully,somebody has actually gone out and mingled with the faithful to get a sense of their disappointment,abandonmant and frustration...that excercise alone would ensure a focus missing from the programme to date.

KC61 · 12-10-2010 11:09AM

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

so the new plan is supposed to be enforce today, how'd rush-hour work out?

New timetables come in on Sundays - driver's rosters work from Sunday to Saturday.

What was to happen today was that the new rosters were to be shown to the drivers and if agreement is reached they will be implemented from next Sunday.

Tourman · 12-10-2010 06:11PM

KC61 wrote: »

New timetables come in on Sundays - driver's rosters work from Sunday to Saturday.

What was to happen today was that the new rosters were to be shown to the drivers and if agreement is reached they will be implemented from next Sunday.

I see the tried and trusted method of presenting the front line staff with the proposed changes is to be re-instated. I hope that the failed experiment of forcing through unworkable schedule's will not be repeated in the next phase of the ND roll out

SickCert · 12-10-2010 07:16PM

The unions were presented with the new schedule today and will be issuing to the lads on Thursday if they are happy with the new draft. In fairness they monitored the route 12hrs a day for 4 days so they have dont their homework.

Before the next phase, similar needs to be done to the 4,46a,47,63 and the 84.

Victor · 13-10-2010 02:14PM

foggy_lad wrote: »

Success all depends on whether the drivers actively support the new plan!

How about playing a different record? This one appears broken.

Cookie_Monster · 19-10-2010 11:01AM

so were any changes made then?

Stevek101 · 19-10-2010 11:29AM

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

so were any changes made then?

No, it was shot down by the union.

-Chris- · 19-10-2010 11:32AM

Seriously?

Cookie_Monster · 19-10-2010 12:03PM

Stevek101 wrote: »

No, it was shot down by the union.

any idea why?

Stevek101 · 19-10-2010 12:09PM

Honestly, I have no idea why. I just heard it was shot down a few days before implementation. Any calls for future changes will now fall on deaf ears.

Network Direct is very far behind and with buses close to leaving the fleet they'll be left short on capacity unless this process starts to speed up.

SickCert · 19-10-2010 12:54PM

Stevek101 wrote: »

No, it was shot down by the union.

The new bill was withdrawn by the company at the last minute, THEN a similar bill was produced with no extra peak running time. Which has been in meeting since 930am this morning. The lack of extra peak time means this will also fail. Then the withdrawn bill will probadly pop up again.

Stevek101 · 19-10-2010 12:56PM

SickCert wrote: »

The new bill was withdrawn by the company at the last minute, THEN a similar bill was produced with no extra peak running time. Which has been in meeting since 930am this morning. The lack of extra peak time means this will also fail. Then the withdrawn bill will probadly pop up again.

I stand corrected so. Shocking really. How hard is it just to get it over and done with.

SickCert · 19-10-2010 01:03PM

Stevek101 wrote: »

I stand corrected so. Shocking really. How hard is it just to get it over and done with.

In my 12yrs of doing the job, ive known the unions and drivers to be pains. But im amazed to say it isnt us this time!;)

foggy_lad · 19-10-2010 03:06PM

SickCert wrote: »

The new bill was withdrawn by the company at the last minute, THEN a similar bill was produced with no extra peak running time. Which has been in meeting since 930am this morning. The lack of extra peak time means this will also fail. Then the withdrawn bill will probadly pop up again.

why not try it out for a week or two though instead of the union/staff rejecting it straight off? at least the company are putting ideas forward, all the union has done is reject it saying it wont work cant work etc as if they will not allow it work because it has not been accepted fully by the union.

Tourman · 19-10-2010 04:36PM

As far as I could the "changes" mostly consisted of changing duty numbers. No extra running time which is the problem. Management are over promising. The 145 bill will continue to fail without adequate resources such as buses staff and time. The 10 minute promise can only work with additional resources. If there is not extra resources available then the frequency will have to be reduced.

The process so far will lead to customer/driver conflict because of an unreliable service. This will lead to loss of customers. The schedule's that are in place will lead to accidents as drivers speed to make timetables. This will also lead to stress related illness and absenteeism. All the foregoing will lead to loss of revenue and higher costs.

The network review is about cost savings, which is no bad thing, but the manner of its implementation so far is counter productive. I very much fear for the future of Dublin Bus

Dublin Bus route 145 :(

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