Landis admits doping, points finger at LA - Please read Mod Warning post 1

IM0 · 14-07-2010 11:25PM

Soon after all this started in this thread Ive stayed away from it on purpose and away from cycling news and any other media covering it, but I decided that I would wait for it all to blow over/open whichever, when the case is closed and whatever happens its 'resolved' with either:

"LA doped and we can prove it so heres the punishment and heres why"
"US Postal/\Discovery doped and heres proof and the punishment"

I hope there will be a new thread then which will go through all the big developments and help to understand why, but in the mean time it can carry on in the background [at every level] untill the Fed's and anyone else close things.

I remember seeing the science of lance armstrong bit on Discovery about 5 years ago, and I thought it was telling when he spent the entire part of a section of the interview looking at the camera, but then when telling "there was nothing dirty going on in the team" - he was looking at the ground [head down] the classic tell for a lie

Also I remeber seeing Bruneeyl being interviewed before a key stage of the tour and again same thing he was looking the guy straight in the eye until
he looked at the ground and said "the tactics wont change today" - again he lied - their tactics changed.

petethedrummer · 14-07-2010 11:31PM

me@ucd wrote: »

I hope there will be a new thread then which will go through all the big developments and help to understand why.

This thread on cycling news has the major stories with very minimal opinion.
http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=7473

Lumen · 15-07-2010 08:06AM

me@ucd wrote: »

I remember seeing the science of lance armstrong bit on Discovery about 5 years ago, and I thought it was telling when he spent the entire part of a section of the interview looking at the camera, but then when telling "there was nothing dirty going on in the team" - he was looking at the ground [head down] the classic tell for a lie

Bluefoam · 15-07-2010 10:08AM

If Lance is guilty of using performance enhancers this goes beyond doping and cheating in races. As far as I know Lance has lobbied his fans and used their money to successfully sue others who accused him of doping.

This puts him in line for major fraud and leaves him open to be sued by his fans who gave him money under false pretences, open to claims from those he sued & the US government are gonna want a pound of flesh. If he's guilty he could be facing major charges...

AstraMonti · 15-07-2010 10:15AM

Do you think anything will happen in the near future? I mean.. he is still important to the sponsors and this whole business behind livestrong. Money makes the world go round; unfortunately I don't believe anything will see the surface for the next couple of years (I really hope though we 'll find out that I am wrong).

Wicklowrider · 15-07-2010 10:25AM

Slideshowbob wrote: »

I bought easi singles in 1988 - if these insinuations go back to then i want my money back

Hope they were Calvita.( Roche's sponsors)

TinyExplosions · 15-07-2010 10:38AM

AstraMonti wrote: »

Do you think anything will happen in the near future? I mean.. he is still important to the sponsors and this whole business behind livestrong. Money makes the world go round; unfortunately I don't believe anything will see the surface for the next couple of years (I really hope though we 'll find out that I am wrong).

I think that we might not see anything in the very short term (these investigations seem to move at glacial place), but I am starting to think that we could very well see Lance getting convicted of perjury at the very least -there's an awful lot of story changing going on by Lance, Tailwind etc, and things he's saying now are very different to statements made under oath in 2005 -theses are the kind of technicalities that got Marion Jones jail times, and could well lead to the same for Lance at the very least.

I think the big difference now is that we have an investigator who isn't afraid of taking big names to task, and who want's to get a conviction if there is one to get... this isn't just a wishy washy case of "did Lance dope" anymore, it's moved far beyond that into territory that into territory that won't simply be based on (discredited or not) witness testimony, but may have a paper trail out there showing that there was, at the very least, perjury going on, if not downright fraud

TinyExplosions · 15-07-2010 10:43AM

Oooo, I like this bit:

Tailwind Sports was registered with the California Secretary of State as being located in 2002 at the same Austin, Texas address as the Armstrong-linked company Capital Sports and Entertainment. Tailwind Sports' registered location has also been used as a mailing address for Armstrong's Austin bicycle shop, Mello Johnny's.

-so it was nothing to do with me guv, I just let them use my address...

from this article

Harrybelafonte · 15-07-2010 10:51AM

Man, can you imagine trying to ride the Tour de France and having that hanging over you, almost makes me pity him.

One concern, if this does become more about perjury and fraud I'd be worried that the doping element may be swept under the rug and we don't see a change. However, I've already heard a few people say they think this is the cleanest Tour they've ever watched (based on performances etc)

Bluefoam · 15-07-2010 10:52AM

Harrybelafonte wrote: »

this is the cleanest Tour they've ever watched (based on performances etc)

You mean slow?

Malari · 15-07-2010 10:54AM

Bluefoam wrote: »

You mean slow?

Yeah, apparently Millar was last man over the line the other day, arrived in a body bag on his todd.

Does this mean he's clean now?

No way of telling. I just watch and enjoy.

Harrybelafonte · 15-07-2010 12:11PM

Bluefoam wrote: »

You mean slow?

I don't think slow overall neccessarily, many are commenting on the lack of more superhuman efforts and the general suffering. I'm no expert, just repeating what I'm hearing from others. The problems Vino had on the Giro convinced seem to have convinced a good few people that he's clean again

Chips Lovell · 15-07-2010 12:13PM

I think this piece in the NYT is where a lot of the new stuff came from. It's kind of interesting the way he's distancing himself from stuff. You have to wonder how many people will get hung out to dry in the end.

TinyExplosions · 15-07-2010 12:47PM

I think he's being very careful to say that at the time of the USPS sponsorship he wasn't involved with Tailwind -me thinks he's got a lawyer looking closely at everything he says... he's not said that he didn't have a stake after the fact... he might get away with this one on technicalities

ROK ON · 15-07-2010 02:02PM

Is this LAs attempt at the Nuremburg defense- only an employee, just following orders.

TinyExplosions · 15-07-2010 02:09PM

ROK ON wrote: »

Is this LAs attempt at the Nuremburg defense- only an employee, just following orders.

Thank god that's been discredited as a valid defence!

Though be careful ROK_ON, you're tickling ol Godwin there

dave2pvd · 15-07-2010 03:02PM

TinyExplosions wrote: »

Oooo, I like this bit:

-so it was nothing to do with me guv, I just let them use my address...

from this article

His statements will fail the Duck Test, IMO:

"If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck".

If it is proven that his actions show he was making executive decisions (or if he was a shareholder!) then he is complicit. This is pivotal to his defense. It appears to indicate that the LA legal team has been convened.

For Armstrong to maintain his statement 'I have no ties' is going to be very difficult. It would be like a duck saying 'I am a telephone'.

Moflojo · 15-07-2010 03:09PM

dave2pvd wrote: »

For Armstrong to maintain his statement 'I have no ties' is going to be very difficult. It would be like a duck saying 'I am a telephone'.

I give you the Duck Phone:

Made famous again by the entertainingly stupid MTV series 'Jersey Shore'

Bluefoam · 15-07-2010 03:14PM

dave2pvd wrote: »

"If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck".

Were you listening to Newstalk at lunchtime too? Are Lance Armstrong & Ivor Callely ducks? Is Ivor Callely taking performance enhancing drugs?

dave2pvd · 15-07-2010 03:18PM

Moflojo wrote: »

I give you the Duck Phone:

Curses! Foiled again!

dave2pvd · 15-07-2010 03:19PM

Bluefoam wrote: »

Were you listening to Newstalk at lunchtime too? Are Lance Armstrong & Ivor Callely ducks? Is Ivor Callely taking performance enhancing drugs?

Lunchtime? It's 10:20. I'm still digesting my cornflakes.

ednwireland · 15-07-2010 05:57PM

Verbruggen labels Landis a nuisance

Former UCI president to testify in US investigation?

Will former UCI president Hein Verbruggen be called to testify in the United States as part of a federal probe into the allegations made against Lance Armstrong? The instigator whose actions sparked the case, Floyd Landis, seems to think so.

In e-mails leaked to Cyclingnews, Verbruggen labels Floyd Landis as "a nuisance" and suggested that he succeeded so well in the role that he should get a "yellow jersey" for his efforts.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/verbruggen-labels-landis-a-nuisance

Chips Lovell · 15-07-2010 06:01PM

What kind of clown is Verbruggen? Someone makes serious allegations about you which prompt a federal investigation at which you may be called to testify and you send them emails baiting them?

TinyExplosions · 15-07-2010 06:36PM

el tonto wrote: »

What kind of clown is Verbruggen? Someone makes serious allegations about you which prompt a federal investigation at which you may be called to testify and you send them emails baiting them?

He's a total joke now, at least as discredited as Landis is

niceonetom · 17-07-2010 02:00PM

LeMonde will get his day in court after all.

Isn't it a strange twist to have the documents his legal team collected, the documents that were never going to see the light of day thanks to the settlement he came to with Trek, now being subpoenaed by the feds. He now gets to say what he has to say without any shadow of financial ruin hanging over him, and without any accusations that he's in it for the money - both easy (and IMO baseless) charges leveled by the lance camp.

EDIT:
El Mundo says that Lemonde say that LA tried to pay someone (unnamed) $300,000 to accuse LeMonde of EPO use.

I predict his testimony will be awesome.

furiousox · 17-07-2010 02:52PM

niceonetom wrote: »

LeMonde will get his day in court after all.

Isn't it a strange twist to have the documents his legal team collected, the documents that were never going to see the light of day thanks to the settlement he came to with Trek, now being subpoenaed by the feds. He now gets to say what he has to say without any shadow of financial ruin hanging over him, and without any accusations that he's in it for the money - both easy (and IMO baseless) charges leveled by the lance camp.

EDIT:
El Mundo says that Lemonde say that LA tried to pay someone (unnamed) $300,000 to accuse LeMonde of EPO use.

I predict his testimony will be awesome.

Thanks niceonetom, this link from the lemond page you mention above makes for incredible reading too

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704911704575326753200584006.html

Junior · 17-07-2010 04:43PM

el tonto wrote: »

What kind of clown is Verbruggen? Someone makes serious allegations about you which prompt a federal investigation at which you may be called to testify and you send them emails baiting them?

Verbruggen sleeps in a coffin with dirt from where he was first buried and rose again, the man makes Pat McQuaid look saintly.

mloc123 · 17-07-2010 07:30PM

So, if Lance goes down... will he go quietly or try and drag everyone with him?

Inquitus · 17-07-2010 08:33PM

mloc123 wrote: »

So, if Lance goes down... will he go quietly or try and drag everyone with him?

The sad fact of the matter is that he can drag practically everyone with him.

Lumen · 17-07-2010 08:37PM

mloc123 wrote: »

So, if Lance goes down... will he go quietly or try and drag everyone with him?

I would guess neither.

Landis admits doping, points finger at LA - Please read Mod Warning post 1

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