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Cheating in the Leaving Cert

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Comments

  • #152
    ldxo15wus6fpgm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,359 ✭✭✭ldxo15wus6fpgm


    Ferris_Bueller wrote: »
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you still get the college course you want, are they still harming you? And how?

    Maybe not you, but if they get a college course, they're stealing it from someone who really deserved it. It could be you.


  • #153
    LutherBlissett
    Registered Users Posts: 191 ✭✭LutherBlissett


    Interesting point there by Ferris Bueller; if you feel so self righteous about the prevention of cheating, why would you want to report it anonymously?

    Do you not feel as cowardly as somebody cheating?

    I'm also somewhat surprised by the lack of consideration for the person cheating.

    Firstly; one person writing a spelling or formula on their hand will not affect the bell curve. The curve pertains to all the exams in the country. Your centre (in fact your school as a whole) are just a drop in the ocean.

    Secondly; it may shock and amaze you to hear this, but the factors which cause people to cheat are manifold and far more complex than "laziness". Take for instance the phenomenon of the student who is probably guaranteed 550+ points. They don't need to cheat, but because of fear or pressure they do. This could be fear or pressure imposed by a parent or a teacher, it could be fear and pressure existing solely in their mind. Whichever. I just think it is important to realise that people are not automatically moral sinners or out to cheat you out of your place in college. Stress and personal circumstances can play an instrumental role, and shouldn't be underestimated or dismissed.

    If a person cheats, the system is there to catch them out. Believe me, it has ways of doing so. If it doesn't, as was said - the bell curve is not significantly altered.

    Remember - in life, (starting, more than likely, with college), you will encounter people doing dishonest things. You can't catch out all of them, so all you can do is outsmart them. You can't outsmart somebody by spending your time complaining and becoming an informant (funnily enough, authorities tend to despise an informant as much as the perpetrator).

    I think a collective calming down is needed. Buckling down to your own study is necessary today, not playing an overly moralistic blame game.


  • #154
    Ferris_Bueller
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,596 ✭✭✭Ferris_Bueller


    So that would mean it potentially will harm you?

    Brilliant post above btw.


  • #155
    ldxo15wus6fpgm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,359 ✭✭✭ldxo15wus6fpgm


    Ferris_Bueller wrote: »
    So that would mean it potentially will harm you?

    No, they will harm someone, and it could be you. It's not potentially harming someone, it is harming someone, full stop.
    LutherBlissett wrote: »
    I'm also somewhat surprised by the lack of consideration for the person cheating.

    I stopped reading after that tbh. :rolleyes:
    It's already been said why people want to remain anonymous, there would be a retaliation against them if they weren't anonymous. Are you calling anyone under a witness protection programme a coward? Same principles.


  • #156
    Bob the Builder
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,919 ✭✭✭Bob the Builder


    LadyGaga! wrote: »
    I'm starting to think that those defending the cheaters are the ones actually cheating. Really hope they all get found out.
    slasher_65 wrote: »
    I suspect we may have found a cheater.
    This is pathetic in all fairness. You are all questioning people's morals that they aren't snapping their fingers and immediately reporting them. However, when someone doesn't take your side, they automatically become cheaters as well.

    I am not cheating and I will stand by what I said. I think it's unfair that everyone wants to burn them at the stake. There are people out there in the workforce and in the high ranks of government and civil service under much less pressure with far better leaving certs committing far worse crimes of cheating and nobody seems to care.

    I don't think that any student should have their lives destroyed in terms of their education anyway and be debarred from State exams for the next five years because of one slip of paper. I think that the issue should be challenged directly by the superintendent and the SEC but not this whole business of these people destroying other peoples lives by doing this. Your claims are greatly exaggerated and I refuse to agree with it.

    There is little, if any cheating in the exam centre I am in, and there is obviously something wrong with the culture of the school the OP is going to if everyone is aiding and abetting with cheating.


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  • #157
    ldxo15wus6fpgm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,359 ✭✭✭ldxo15wus6fpgm


    Bob the Builder wrote: »
    I am not cheating and I will stand by what I said. I think it's unfair that everyone wants to burn them at the stake.

    Really, do you now? That's interesting. Are you trying to say it's not unfair that people are cheating in these exams?


  • #158
    Bob the Builder
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,919 ✭✭✭Bob the Builder


    Lisa Round Planet wrote: »
    Really, do you now? That's interesting. Are you trying to say it's not unfair that people are cheating in these exams?

    I'm not standing by these people at all. I refuse to stand by these people. And they should be apprehended. But to bar someone from state examinations for five years because they had a formula written on a slip of paper is like trying to kill a dead cat with a rocket launcher.

    Those very same people who are using maths formula's are probably only doing so to pass their paper. The amount of pressure placed upon some of these students probably sometimes means they are helpless to do anything else, especially if they are unable to concentrate on study. Mammy and Daddy have some high touting fallooting course that they want their seemingly intelligent children to do, and pressurise them to get the grades to do so, despite an overwhelming lack of competence or confidence.

    The OP seems just to want to report them because s/he doesn't like the school nor the people who are cheating. If you are going to report something like that, do it for the right reasons, and not just for revenge purposes.

    Also, this whole notion that those people who are 'defending' the cheaters, are cheaters themselves. That's more idiotic cock and bull. And whilst I am not defending those who are cheating, I think it unfair to have a one-sided debate of high morals where anyone who doesn't agree is committing the offence themselves.


  • #159
    loocas
    Registered Users Posts: 43 ✭loocas


    Cheating can force those who truly deserve a place in their chosen college out of it. Even the little things like writing a formula for maths on your hand is enough to tip someone else out there down a peg and thus loosing five marks on their exam.

    However, the Exams leave too much to chance. The LC exams are flawed in that they seek a perfect, everyone doing the right thing situation. But some people are ****heads and will find whatever means to exploit the system for themselves, without consideration for the people who put in the work.

    I'd rather see someone get banned from the exams for three years than have an honest participant loose their chosen slot in 3rd level, but even then, the finger should be pointed at the SEC for giving them this chance to cheat.


  • #160
    ihavequestions
    Registered Users Posts: 711 ✭✭✭ihavequestions


    i know someone who cheated last year and got away with it. the girl would have failed and got ds with the cheating. she didnt go to college so stole noones place.


  • #161
    Shanotheslayer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,191 ✭✭✭✭Shanotheslayer


    People seem to be making mountains out of molehills imo.


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  • #162
    Killer Pigeon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,132 ✭✭✭Killer Pigeon


    Al Pacino's opinions:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dH4p9BQ3V9o


  • #163
    ldxo15wus6fpgm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,359 ✭✭✭ldxo15wus6fpgm


    Bob the Builder wrote: »
    I'm not standing by these people at all. I refuse to stand by these people. And they should be apprehended. But to bar someone from state examinations for five years because they had a formula written on a slip of paper is like trying to kill a dead cat with a rocket launcher.

    Those very same people who are using maths formula's are probably only doing so to pass their paper. The amount of pressure placed upon some of these students probably sometimes means they are helpless to do anything else, especially if they are unable to concentrate on study. Mammy and Daddy have some high touting fallooting course that they want their seemingly intelligent children to do, and pressurise them to get the grades to do so, despite an overwhelming lack of competence or confidence.

    The OP seems just to want to report them because s/he doesn't like the school nor the people who are cheating. If you are going to report something like that, do it for the right reasons, and not just for revenge purposes.

    Also, this whole notion that those people who are 'defending' the cheaters, are cheaters themselves. That's more idiotic cock and bull. And whilst I am not defending those who are cheating, I think it unfair to have a one-sided debate of high morals where anyone who doesn't agree is committing the offence themselves.

    How many times?!?! :mad::mad:
    There are plenty of people cheating to get high points. Not just to pass. Take a look at Salman85.
    Plenty of people have pressure from parents/teachers etc. and they don't resort to cheating.

    Of course the OP doesn't like the people who are cheating. They're obviously not great characters if they're cheating in the exams. ;) As far as I'm aware he didn't say anything about getting revenge etc. but he's perfectly entitled to inform the examiners of cheating no matter what his history with those people is.

    I appreciate the last point though. There's no point accusing people of anything here. The two posts you have quoted there were directed at one particular fella who seemed determined to make people feel bad in themselves about informing the examiners, which is not acceptable.


  • #164
    PARARORY
    Registered Users Posts: 294 ✭✭PARARORY


    Cut the cheaters some slack - theyre probably getting more work done ( and putting in more effort) writing out their cheat notes as we speak than the majority of students on this board who are just wasting valuable study time :D


  • #165
    student12876
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8 ✭student12876


    its not cheating untill u get caught ;) haha


  • #166
    Bob the Builder
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,919 ✭✭✭Bob the Builder


    Lisa Round Planet wrote: »
    How many times?!?! :mad::mad:
    There are plenty of people cheating to get high points. Not just to pass. Take a look at Salman85.
    Plenty of people have pressure from parents/teachers etc. and they don't resort to cheating.
    I appreciate that. Salman85 was anything but intelligent in the end. However, I have to say, I do agree with what LutherBlissett said above; that a few small cheats are not significant to upset the bell curve enough to destroy the integrity of exams.
    Of course the OP doesn't like the people who are cheating. They're obviously not great characters if they're cheating in the exams. ;) As far as I'm aware he didn't say anything about getting revenge etc. but he's perfectly entitled to inform the examiners of cheating no matter what his history with those people is.
    That's a good point. Those who are cheating are probably the same people who will have broke the school windows on grad night and terrorised other students. I would just be wary of that student going out specifically to destroy other people's lives in the hope that he'll do better.

    But, if the student is going to report it because he hates these other guys, then would he be as willing to do it had one of his friends been one of the people to do it.
    I appreciate the last point though. There's no point accusing people of anything here. The two posts you have quoted there were directed at one particular fella who seemed determined to make people feel bad in themselves about informing the examiners, which is not acceptable.
    Thank you. That was my original point until I got carried away.... :D


  • #167
    ldxo15wus6fpgm
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,359 ✭✭✭ldxo15wus6fpgm


    Bob the Builder wrote: »
    I appreciate that. Salman85 was anything but intelligent in the end. However, I have to say, I do agree with what LutherBlissett said above; that a few small cheats are not significant to upset the bell curve enough to destroy the integrity of exams.
    They do take college places from honest people though.
    That's a good point. Those who are cheating are probably the same people who will have broke the school windows on grad night and terrorised other students. I would just be wary of that student going out specifically to destroy other people's lives in the hope that he'll do better.
    C'mon man, they're not doing it in the hopes that they'll do better. It's to stop the cheats from taking places in 3rd level which they don't deserve.
    But, if the student is going to report it because he hates these other guys, then would he be as willing to do it had one of his friends been one of the people to do it.
    That would be an ecumenical matter :P I don't know what I'd do in that situation... I guess it depends how close of a friend they were, and how badly they were doing it.
    Thank you. That was my original point until I got carried away.... :D
    It's all too easy with all this stress I think :)


  • #168
    JerCotter7
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 814 ✭✭✭JerCotter7


    Bob the Builder wrote: »
    I would just be wary of that student going out specifically to destroy other people's lives in the hope that he'll do better.

    I doubt this is what is going through the cheaters mind when they do it. I don't think they are specifically cheating to get someone out of a college place. They just want the place. The cheating is wrong but why someone does it is a very grey matter and I don't think you should label someone for doing it.


  • #169
    watevertrevor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34 ✭watevertrevor


    JerCotter7 wrote: »
    I doubt this is what is going through the cheaters mind when they do it. I don't think they are specifically cheating to get someone out of a college place. They just want the place. The cheating is wrong but why someone does it is a very grey matter and I don't think you should label someone for doing it.

    But surely they should think about the consequences of their actions and if they decide not to then they should be punished the same way as those who do.


  • #170
    LeeLeepet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7 ✭LeeLeepet


    Catch them out the little jerkoffs. people who cheat might as well spit in the face of people who have put in the work. - have a teacher inspect the toilets and REMOVE EVERYTHING as soon as the exam start. thus nothing there to read, and at least when ppl go in to read stuff and find it not there they can't complain or else they'll get caught for cheatn. but if it wasn't there they wont get in trouble coz they wouldn't have been able to cheat.
    some schools confiscate phones at the door.


  • #171
    baaaa
    Closed Accounts Posts: 606 ✭✭✭baaaa


    My friend used a dictaphone wired to a little earpiece in the cuff of his sleve.Seemed to work quite well until he accidently pulled the earpiece out of the dictaphone resulting in the sound coming out directly through the dictaphone speakers(in his pocket) for about 3 secs until he managed to turn it off.
    Supervisor came down to investigate as everybody heard it clearly but he got away with it.


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  • #172
    double GG
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,623 ✭✭✭double GG


    baaaa wrote: »
    My friend used a dictaphone wired to a little earpiece in the cuff of his sleve.Seemed to work quite well until he accidently pulled the earpiece out of the dictaphone resulting in the sound coming out directly through the dictaphone speakers(in his pocket) for about 3 secs until he managed to turn it off.
    Supervisor came down to investigate as everybody heard it clearly but he got away with it.


    In the leaving cert?? :O


  • #173
    jd007
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,094 ✭✭✭jd007


    I haven't read through all this thread so apologies if this has been posted.

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055315462

    Brilliant thread.


  • #174
    JellyBeans92
    Closed Accounts Posts: 489 ✭✭JellyBeans92


    Bob the Builder wrote: »
    I don't think that any student should have their lives destroyed in terms of their education anyway and be debarred from State exams for the next five years because of one slip of paper. I think that the issue should be challenged directly by the superintendent and the SEC but not this whole business of these people destroying other peoples lives by doing this. Your claims are greatly exaggerated and I refuse to agree with it.

    Why shouldn't they be punished, I mean, I like many other students online here have worked my @ss off for the last year and I'm not cheating.. I could be 5 points off the course I want in August, but someone else who's gets the same as me and cheats this week gets those extra points and into their course.

    I'm under the same pressures as many other people to do well and get into college this year, but I'm not cheat... I don't see why these people shouldn't be punished: They know the rules and should feel the wrath of them for breaking them.. If they don't get to resit exams till about 2015 well it's their own fault..

    Back to the study (to get my points the HONEST way.) :P


  • #175
    gant0
    Registered Users Posts: 440 ✭✭gant0


    slasher_65 wrote: »
    I suspect we may have found a cheater.
    Hah ya ok I cheated because I think it's wrong to purposfully RUIN someones life.And no I didn't cheat I think it's just retarded.Would never risk it for what a few extra marks???it's too much of a risk but I just think you have to be a sad individual to report someone if they didn't personally interfere with your exam.However if they kept bothering you and distracting you then ya fine.I'd have no problem reporting someone if they may lead to me not getting my course.


  • #176
    randylonghorn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,509 ✭✭✭✭randylonghorn


    gant0 wrote: »
    Don't be a dirty ****ing rat!!!why would you willing go about to ruin someones whole life??are you really that sad? does it bother you that much?.Ya people cheat,people in my centre cheat but why care unless they're actually interferring with your exam.It's there lives their risking.If you do snitch tho I can quarantee you karma will follow you for the rest of your life and you will NEVER get laid!!!:eek:
    Please do adjust your bull****ometer and reread your post.
    slasher_65 wrote: »
    I suspect we may have found a cheater.
    LadyGaga! wrote: »
    I'm starting to think that those defending the cheaters are the ones actually cheating. Really hope they all get found out.
    BIIIGGG jump! People are entitled to their opinions, to jump to the conclusion that they are cheaters is way OTT. Cut it out, please.
    Ferris_Bueller wrote: »
    ... the fact that everyone wants to do it anonomously is perhaps suggesting that you know it's wrong and don't want to be caught for doing it (but I am probably jumping to conclusions).
    I think you are. People are under enough pressure with LC, why should they add to that pressure on themselves because of others wrongdoing?

    There is another factor. I advised above that the OP contact the SEC and bring to their attention that she felt there were problems with the conduct of the exam centre. Hopefully that would mean that the SEC would give the supers a kick up the arse and waken them up to check more thoroughly.

    By doing so anonymously, she can not be put under pressure to name specific names.

    Are you still sure you would prefer her to sign her name?
    LutherBlissett wrote: »
    Interesting point there by Ferris Bueller; if you feel so self righteous about the prevention of cheating, why would you want to report it anonymously?
    See above.
    LutherBlissett wrote: »
    Firstly; one person writing a spelling or formula on their hand will not affect the bell curve. The curve pertains to all the exams in the country. Your centre (in fact your school as a whole) are just a drop in the ocean.
    And if there's a couple in every school?
    LutherBlissett wrote: »
    Secondly; it may shock and amaze you to hear this, but the factors which cause people to cheat are manifold and far more complex than "laziness". Take for instance the phenomenon of the student who is probably guaranteed 550+ points. They don't need to cheat, but because of fear or pressure they do. This could be fear or pressure imposed by a parent or a teacher, it could be fear and pressure existing solely in their mind. Whichever. I just think it is important to realise that people are not automatically moral sinners or out to cheat you out of your place in college. Stress and personal circumstances can play an instrumental role, and shouldn't be underestimated or dismissed.
    And how does any of that make cheating right?
    Bob the Builder wrote: »
    There are people out there in the workforce and in the high ranks of government and civil service under much less pressure with far better leaving certs committing far worse crimes of cheating and nobody seems to care.
    And as I have pointed out before, when we teach people at 18 that it's ok to cheat, we set ourselves ourselves up for another generation of people who cheat in life, in work, in politics. Is that really what you want?
    Bob the Builder wrote: »
    The OP seems just to want to report them because s/he doesn't like the school nor the people who are cheating. If you are going to report something like that, do it for the right reasons, and not just for revenge purposes.
    0_o

    That's about as much of a jump as the people presuming that anyone "soft" on those cheating are cheaters themselves!
    Bob the Builder wrote: »
    I think it unfair to have a one-sided debate of high morals where anyone who doesn't agree is committing the offence themselves.
    There we agree.


  • #177
    JellyBeans92
    Closed Accounts Posts: 489 ✭✭JellyBeans92


    gant0 wrote: »
    I just think you have to be a sad individual to report someone if they didn't personally interfere with your exam.

    I don't see how it would be "sad" to report someone for cheating? This person cheating doesn't just affect people in their centre, but people countrywide, I mean why should someone cheating their way through the next week or so get into a course over me, when I've worked my ass off all year long. :(

    Just because some of us are honest doesn't mean we're fricking doormats like?!
    :mad:


  • #178
    randylonghorn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,509 ✭✭✭✭randylonghorn


    gant0 wrote: »
    Hah ya ok I cheated because I think it's wrong to purposfully RUIN someones life.And no I didn't cheat I think it's just retarded.Would never risk it for what a few extra marks???it's too much of a risk but I just think you have to be a sad individual to report someone if they didn't personally interfere with your exam.However if they kept bothering you and distracting you then ya fine.I'd have no problem reporting someone if they may lead to me not getting my course.
    I sat in our university canteen two years ago and listened as 3 lads behind me skitted about ways they had cheated in LC.

    All three were first years on a highly competitive course which takes ~ 40 students each year (can't remember exactly how many).

    There were about 10 times as many applicants as there were places.

    Some of those who failed to get places in that course went back to repeat their LC in the hope of getting places the following year.

    If you were one of those people, how would you feel about those three lads?


  • #179
    gant0
    Registered Users Posts: 440 ✭✭gant0


    JellyBeans92 wrote: »
    I don't see how it would be "sad" to report someone for cheating? This person cheating doesn't just affect people in their centre, but people countrywide, I mean why should someone cheating their way through the next week or so get into a course over me, when I've worked my ass off all year long. :(

    Just because some of us are honest doesn't mean we're fricking doormats like?!
    :mad:
    Ya I understand where people are coming from.we've worked hard all year and are under stress and the thought of a cheater getting a course before us is annoying but really,you would'nt feel awful ruining someones life?ya maybe they deserve it but if you do report them and they're banned from sitting an exam for 7 years they'd actually have a horrible life(never get a job or atleast a good one) for the fact you wanted to prevent the 1 in a billion chance that someone who cheated would mean you wouldn't get your course.Just my own two cents


  • #180
    JellyBeans92
    Closed Accounts Posts: 489 ✭✭JellyBeans92


    ... and the clouds would be made of candyfloss, but we kinda live in the real world?!?
    gant0 wrote: »
    Ya I understand where people are coming from.we've worked hard all year and are under stress and the thought of a cheater getting a course before us is annoying but really,you would'nt feel awful ruining someones life?ya maybe they deserve it but if you do report them and they're banned from sitting an exam for 7 years they'd actually have a horrible life(never get a job or atleast a good one) for the fact you wanted to prevent the 1 in a billion chance that someone who cheated would mean you wouldn't get your course.Just my own two cents

    Thats all very well and good, but it's not like these people don't know the risks, so I have no sympathy.. Would it not be better for them to wait 4-5 year and go in mature than risk cheating.. plus there's back ways into virtually everything, so why should they get that place over the honest ones of us..

    Cheating shouldn't be condoned..

    To Quote Randy
    "I sat in our university canteen two years ago and listened as 3 lads behind me skitted about ways they had cheated in LC.

    All three were first years on a highly competitive course which takes ~ 40 students each year (can't remember exactly how many).

    There were about 10 times as many applicants as there were places.

    Some of those who failed to get places in that course went back to repeat their LC in the hope of getting places the following year.

    If you were one of those people, how would you feel about those three lads?"

    I know I'd feel lke I'd been kicked in the face for trying to be a good honest person..


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  • #181
    iano1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12 ✭iano1


    JellyBeans92 wrote: »
    I don't see how it would be "sad" to report someone for cheating? This person cheating doesn't just affect people in their centre, but people countrywide, I mean why should someone cheating their way through the next week or so get into a course over me, when I've worked my ass off all year long. :(

    Just because some of us are honest doesn't mean we're fricking doormats like?!
    :mad:

    Do you want a medal? Seriously stop caring about cheaters cause its always gona happen, theres not gona be much of them and they get like 5 minutes to look over notes they were already looking over right before the exam started. I myself have been studying the night before everything and finding it easy enough. If this thread wasnt made nobody would be thinkin bout cheaters, so there wouldnt be a bell curve or whatever maybe.


This discussion has been closed.
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