DTT Commercial Multiplexes (was OneVision, Boxer etc...)

endakenny wrote: »

I know that UPC provides the BBC channels but cable is subscription-only. I guess that most people in ROI who watch BBC do so by FTA: satellite and terrestrial overspill.

UPC and Sky would disagree. While this may change over the next few years at the moment UPC and Sky have a very large number of Households subscribing. And Sky pay both BBC and C4 to put those channels on their Irish EPG, hence part of the bonus pack. Are the other UK DTT channels available on Sky Ireland's EPG?

Karsini wrote: »

And if they keep it at 544x576 then the picture quality will be arguably worse than a clear analogue picture.

Analogue was degraded a while ago. RTE changed to WS (though arguably only HD should have WS). Using 720 x 576 native.

However "square" 1:1 pixel is 768 x 576 for "PAL" and 640 x 480 for "NTSC"

Anamorphic WS uses 1.33:1 shaped Pixels (for 576 lines). HD uses 1:1 square pixels for 1920 x1080.

Anamorphic WS at same screen height as 4:3 results in lower resolution, the image is blurred horizontally (1.33x) by 30%.

US SD is 720 x 480, which increases quality for 4:3 and a compromise for Anamorphic WS (1.125x increase from square pixels)

544 pixels is approximately 4:3 at same resolution as 16:9 using 720.

Some HD is now using 1440 x1080, esp all Terrestrial, this is a backward step from 1:1 resolution toward poor Anamorphic resolution.

Analogue Currently from RTE starts as 720 x 576 feed for Sky and is cropped to 14:9 or 4:3. Then re-sampled for the MPEG feeds to the Analogue Transmitters. So you lose three times:
1) Conversion from non-anamorphic 1024 x576 or 1920x1080 to 720x576 Anamorphic (or even 704x576, or 544x576, whatever current Sky Resolution is). 30% reduction in horizontal resolution.
2) Crop (lose edges of picture)
3) Re-sample (lose more resolution).

Analogue pictures are lower quality since RTE switched to WS. Digital WS even at 544x576 will improve picture but it should be 720x576 for similar quality (though 30% horizontal loss on 16:9 vs 4:3 content) to pre-non-WS era RTE.

It's criminal that HD should be 1440x1080 as that is Anamorphic! Since decent HD sets are fixed pixel 1920x 1080, then you get additional blurring with the resampling from 1440 ->1920 for display. So compared to proper HD, the 1440 is about 35% quality reduction on a 1920x1080 display.

It won't make much difference to people conned into buying a TV with a PC LCD or Plasma panel in it of WXGA, 1366 x 768 as that is still lower quality.

On 42" a 1366x768 so called "HD Ready" screen is about 45% poorer than 1920x1080 or 1920x1200 native pixel even for 1920x1080i transmission.

HD and Digital specs are primarily based around significant improvements for NTSC 480 line viewers, hence the 720 lines is a big improvement for 480 line 37" to 56" TVs but not so useful for European 576 line TVs 28" moved to 32" and 37" HD.

Karsini wrote: »

One thing which I have to bring up is this. Pay DTT is a dead duck, we knew that all along. But now we're facing the prospect of RTÉ launching a DTT service which delivers almost nothing compared to the existing analogue service. That will be a hard sell - I'd expect many to go "why do I need to buy a new box to get the same channels I always had?" And if they keep it at 544x576 then the picture quality will be arguably worse than a clear analogue picture.

That is why RTÉ need to get a HD service up and running for those pesky early adopters. Launching of extra channels RTÉ 3, RTÉ News Now and perhaps RTÉ 1 +1 and get TV3 to put 3e on the new DTT service for those pesky technophobs just so that they will want something. Then it is a case of placing the IFB Channel and OTV channel on the air. It might only be 6 new channels but people in 4 TV land would be happy enough but the STB would have to be subsidized.

Subsidization will be a big problem. If they only go with 5 channels (including NEWS NOW) then STBs will have to be free to people in areas in 4 TV Land.

Just made an enquiry regarding status of Oireachtas TV and the Irish film Channel to the dept. I shall post up the gist of the situation as it stands now. Either they are going up or they are not. I'd be against +1 channels, with a PVR there's no need. Irish Film Channel timeshare with DCTV and Cork City TV would be very doable right now once they link up via TG4 or RTÉ. TV ads will help it self fund also.

The Oireachtas Channel is a harder sell because no ads so requires funding. But an important channel it is for public information. The HSE could also use this channel and teletext features for public information. European Parliament stuff also on this channel so it is important in my view.

That said, it could be argued that now is not the time for a full channel , in which case RTÉ News Now could timeshare with it especially at night time.

Could they not just stream the Oireachtas channel on the Internet? I doubt it would be much of a TAM rating winner. And what, the Dail only sits 3 days a week, and takes real long holidays. What do they suggest they show during these down times- Tribunal TV? Real edge-of-your-seat stuff from Dublin Castle...

BoredNaMoaner wrote: »

Could they not just stream the Oireachtas channel on the Internet? I doubt it would be much of a TAM rating winner. And what, the Dail only sits 3 days a week, and takes real long holidays. What do they suggest they show during these down times- Tribunal TV? Real edge-of-your-seat stuff from Dublin Castle...

Lets face it political coverage of this kind isn't ever going to be a ratings winner. BBC Parliament doesn't even rate. Can find figures for CSPAN in the states.

In terms of Oireachtas TV, the service could easily carry whatever is already shown online.

There must be someone employed in RTE who sits and watches the goings-on in order to prepare the highlights show for late night viewing. So there will already be production costs associated with such broadcasts. And then there must be a press team within the Dail who are already putting together the online stream.

The downtime could be used for other PSB uses, such as education programmes, long distance learning.

Or better still, sell off the downtime to a shopping channel or some other station who would want carriage... there are ways and means!

An education channel seems like a good idea. It could be used from children to adults. Producing quality content might be a problem however. I just think this idea of Oireachtas TV would just too much like watching reality TV with politicians. There really isn't quality debate in the Dail. For measures for a more transparent democracy I would prefer to see a roll back against the restrictions on the Freedom of Information act. Not an adult Punch and Judy show.

Sam Russell wrote: »

What I think may well happen is that 'people' will discuss in the pub how their new telly can get the 'new' DTT and the picture is only marvellous.

'How do you get BBC etc.?'

'Oh did you know, that with a new Freesat box to replace your Sky box, and then you can get all the BBC and ITV channels for free?' say friend.

'For free! Oh, I didn't know that. Where can I get a box?'

And so the word spreads.:)

Sky are vulnerable to Freesat as the dish is already there, and pointing in the right direction. And Freesat+ replaces Sky+.

And here lies a huge problem for RTE television. People choose Freesat over DTT. But they cannot pick up RTE television on Freesat. Its to inconveinent to arse around trying to get a DTT box for just 4 channels, so they make a decision to put RTE aside. There is enough to watch on the UK channels anyway.
RTE eventually get the message and unencrypt on satellite but as a result lose all of the premium sports, movies and American TV series so nobody wants to watch them anymore anyway.
I bet there are a lot of people in RTE cursing themselves for not launching DTT in 2000.

scath wrote: »

Firstly to say RTÉ getting the message about encryption is to show lack of understanding of the business side. Are you aware of how much more RTÉ would have to pay for unencryption on satellite? Seriously more money! I don't have the exact figures, I'm sure watty or icdg would have a close to it. Its not feasible for them to encrypt. So that's the first thing to realise. RTÉ could go unencrypted without any foreign shows. This is because of programme territorial rights. Unencrypted opens cost of RTÉ buying UK rights to foreign programmes that make a schedule and shore up ad rates, it would be much much higher.

I think you aren't really aware of the business side in making the statement about RTÉ just unencrypting and the implications of such. But certainly RTÉ home produced programming is a runner as its just carriage costs and uplink then.

Again RTÉ weren't in a position to launch in 2000 because they were constrained by legislation that didn't allow them to do DTT. They were looking for that legislation since from a policy document in 1995 to a more refined one in 1997. They expected something by 1999 but it was 2001 before it finally happened and it was the wrong model which failed elsewhere.

Where it all went wrong for RTÉ was the politicians poor grasp on broadcasting matters. A trial should have ran from 2004-2005 and launched thereafter. We'd be 3 years in now if so.

I think that a combo box is likely. Also TV3 will be desired. Unless RTÉ International happens I don't see DTT be ignored. The combo box will be the order of the day. That is something that any commercial DTT provider should actively provide for.

You are castigating Carrolls for saying more or less exactly what you are saying. maybe take the time to read more carefully before posting. To be fair Carrolls is just as knowledgable as a lot of the posters here.

carrolls wrote: »

RTE eventually get the message and unencrypt on satellite but as a result lose all of the premium sports, movies and American TV series so nobody wants to watch them anymore anyway.
I bet there are a lot of people in RTE cursing themselves for not launching DTT in 2000.

Except the Government prevented them. They wanted to.

10000maniacs wrote: »

You are castigating Carrolls for saying more or less exactly what you are saying. maybe take the time to read more carefully before posting. To be fair Carrolls is just as knowledgable as a lot of the posters here.

Am sorry if I came across that way. I'm just reading back my post. I don't intend that. I was over the top I think & ask forgiveness.

But y'know the point I was making was as watty put it x20 times the cost of current foreign programme rights. And x2 for home made programmes not made by RTÉ directly but for them by independent producers. Your doing quite fine Carrolls, sorry about that and thanks 1000maniacs. I guess I was oversympathetic to RTÉ getting criticised for something that isn't just as simple as that.