DTT Commercial Multiplexes (was OneVision, Boxer etc...)

Elmo

I do understand these issue ICDG and smaller countries do have the problem with advertising revenue leave the country through opt out services.

How much is RTÉ, TV3, TG4 and Setanta loosing to opt-out advertising?

At least with 3e we know that some people in Ireland will be employed. (Very Few).

RTÉ, TV3 and TG4 will all have to have cross over channels if they wish to hold on to the 45% of the audience that the currently have, why? because if they see the entry of multichannel land into advertising they will see continued loses.

Channel 6 made 3 major mistakes:-

1. Buy programming in at national rates, even though they were a cable service.
2. Their refusal to take sky initial offer to be in the 200s
3. Think they could be a 3%, when most countries clearly hadn't seen such an audience for multichannel services.

Look I know I keep harping on about new Irish services, but they are required. If you look at Sweden and the UK they continue to protect their main Terrestrial services from Transnational services. BBC, STV, TV4, C4 and ITV all have additional channels on DTT (weather paid for or not). This is the TV landscape and for us to sit back and to think that promoting multiple foreign channels with phenomenal buying power and cross over power is just put a death nail into Irish programming that need funding.

Why do we have to think that advertising money should leave the country. Why should not we produce a similar channel to Sky 1 or Sky 2 or Sky 3?

It doesn't help that the BAI haven't push for additional channels. Rather focusing in on pay TV as a model for commercial DTT. I want to see someone else get a chance that has been provided to TV3 and RTÉ. And why not?

icdg wrote: »

. See Germany and Austria, France and Waloonia, Australia and New Zealand etc. Canada largely avoids it through two rather draconian regulatory provisions (the simultanious substitution rule and the rule that if a Canadian speciality channel is set up, its nearest US equivilant is not allowed to be carried on Canadian cable and satellite systems). Such provisions would be illegal here due to Television without Frontiers, and would likely annoy viewers anyway.

Note that with the role out of DTT New Zealand, Austria and Belgium have roled out new native DTT (note Belgium is largely cabled). And that TVWF (AVWF) does not stop the BAI licencing Irish channels.

10000maniacs

Elmo wrote: »

Look I know I keep harping on about new Irish services, but they are required.

Yes you do.:o
Where is the evidence that they are required?. Are they even wanted on DTT? I for one won't lose any sleep if they are not there. We have got through 11 years of having nothing there at all.

Elmo

10000maniacs wrote: »

Yes you do.:o
Where is the evidence that they are required?. Are they even wanted on DTT? I for one won't lose any sleep if they are not there. We have got through 11 years of having nothing there at all.

And we have gone 11 years without any extra service on the Terrestrial Platform, were is the evidence that there is needed for Extra channels of any kind on any digital platform?

Look you may not care about Home Produced programming or Irish jobs in the Broadcasting industry but I do.

And the evidence from all countries that have rolled out DTT has been the development of extra native terrestrial channels.

The Cush

Article from today's Sunday Tribune

Digital TV plan 'in tatters' after Easy TV pull-out
Martin Frawley

RTÉ is facing a "financial crisis" after a third consortium, Easy TV, pulled out of negotiations to provide commercial digital TV, according to Fine Gael communications spokes-person Simon Coveney.

"Eamon Ryan's plan to provide a commercial digital TV service in Ireland before the analogue system is shut down at the end of 2012 is now in tatters. This is a major financial crisis now for RTÉ which has to provide the finances for a digital TV service network without commercial support," said Coveney.

It also affects the thousands of people who do not have Sky or UPC and who rely on the old analogue system, which will be shut down by the end of 2012, said Coveney.

"Time is running out and Minister Ryan's blasé attitude isn't helping," he said.

An RTÉ spokesman confirmed last week that it has spent €40m installing masts around the country for the new digital system and has plans to spend another €30m.

"A revised overall infrastructure plan will be prepared over the coming months," added the RTÉ spokesman.

The idea is that RTÉ would finance the digital TV network and use one of the four platforms to provide a free-to-air digital service carrying RTÉ, TV3 and TG4. To fund this, licences would be offered to a commercial digital TV provider on the other three platforms to provide TV packages to subscribers,.

Last week, the Broadcasting Authority, which is responsible for the licensing, announced that the withdrawal of Easy TV had brought the current process "to a conclusion".

Ryan said the collapse will not affect the planned analogue switch-off and the 'free to air' digital service of RTÉ, TV3 and TG4 will go ahead.

May 30, 2010

Mr McBoatface

The Cush wrote: »

Article from today's Sunday Tribune

I thought RTE running costs would actually be significantly reduced if DTT launched ASAP and shut-down of analogue happened sooner rather than later. Surely Fine Gael should be calling for acceleration of the DTT launch and the turning off of the extra muxes at Mount Leinster to aid RTE's woes.

Non-constructive cheap shot politics done in the news papers and not the Dáil chambers yet again.:mad:

Biffo The Bare

Elmo wrote: »

And we have gone 11 years without Digital Terrestrial TV were is the evidence that that is needed for Extra channels of any kind?.

Sorry Elmo, I am trying to follow what you are saying, but that sentence does not make any sense. Sorry.

Elmo

Biffo The Bare wrote: »

Sorry Elmo, I am trying to follow what you are saying, but that sentence does not make any sense. Sorry.

Why do we need any extra TV channels via Terrestrial means? What advantage are these extra channels to us? and what to they provide in the way of a digital dividend?

I assumed that freeing up space wasn't just for Television channels but a wide variety of telecommunications.

The point was made after 10000manics made the point that we have got by sufficiently with out extra "native" channels for the last 11 years, but the same can be said of extra "transnational" channels on the platform.

My main point was that internationally whenever DTT is rolled out that countries also roll out new native TV services, very few countries have just gone the route of the traditional 4 channels plus non-Native/transnational TV services (pay or free).

10000maniacs

Elmo wrote: »

Why do we need any extra TV channels via Terrestrial means? What advantage are these extra channels to us? and what to they provide in the way of a digital dividend?

I assumed that freeing up space wasn't just for Television channels but a wide variety of telecommunications.

The point was made after 10000manics made the point that we have got by sufficiently with out extra "native" channels for the last 11 years, but the same can be said of extra "transnational" channels on the platform.

My main point was that internationally whenever DTT is rolled out that countries also roll out new native TV services, very few countries have just gone the route of the traditional 4 channels plus non-Native/transnational TV services (pay or free).

I think Biffo was speaking grammatically.

Elmo

10000maniacs wrote: »

I think Biffo was speaking grammatically.

I know that was why I tried to re-explain it :rolleyes:, I also did a half ass re-edited of the post :cool:

watty

Elmo wrote: »

Why do we need any extra TV channels via Terrestrial means? What advantage are these extra channels to us? and what to they provide in the way of a digital dividend?

The Digital Dividend is NOTHING to do with extra channels. Purely for Governments/Regulators to make money selling spectrum to Phone companies.

But even on the PSB mux the plan is 2 to 4 extra channels.

Since HD takes x4 to 5 times the space of ordinary Digital TV and also:
progressive HD 1080p is x8 to x9 Normal TV if full BD quality
so-called 3D (Stereoscopic TV) @ 1080i is x8 normal TV
3D (Stereoscopic TV) @ 1080p is x16 normal TV

Elmo

watty wrote: »

The Digital Dividend is NOTHING to do with extra channels. Purely for Governments/Regulators to make money selling spectrum to Phone companies.

It was some what of a rhetorical question. Again my main question was do we really need any extra channels from any country on the Platform? And again the post was in response to

Where is the evidence that they are required? Are they even wanted on DTT? I for one won't lose any sleep if they are not there. We have got through 11 years of having nothing there at all.

Biffo The Bare

Elmo wrote: »

It was some what of a rhetorical question. Again my main question was do we really need any extra channels from any country on the Platform? And again the post was in response to

Ah so that clears that up.:o

The Cush

The BAI monthly board meeting was scheduled for today with the next steps for commercial DTT up for discussion, no updated information posted on the BAI website yet.

We might hear something from the Minister in the Dáil tomorrow, his turn for questions tomorrow afternoon (1st Jun, 3.15 pm)

DTT related questions down for answer

45. To ask the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources if the
development of 4G here is dependant on the digital dividend which would arise through
the successful roll out of digital terrestrial television; and if he will make a statement on
the matter. — Ruairí Quinn. [23028/10]

59. To ask the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources his plans
to provide digital terrestrial television in view of the recent collapse of the tendering
process; and if he will make a statement on the matter. — Bernard Allen. [23057/10]

64. To ask the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources the way
he plans to proceed with digital terrestrial television here in view of the recent unsuccessful
negotiations for the commercial DTT contracts; the further way he will ensure that
commercial DTT will proceed here by the 2012 deadline; and if he will make a statement
on the matter. — Liz McManus. [23015/10]

Elmo

Biffo The Bare wrote: »

Ah so that clears that up.:o

If you aren't going to contribute don't post. Yourself and 10000Manics rarely offer up any ideas, and when you dislike someones else or if you think someone is as thick as me you just give quick replies with no merits.

I apologize to both of you for being so completely thick and not agreeing with you all the time.

icdg

Lay off the personal attacks Elmo, or its a week's ban for you.

slicedpanman

looks like E.Ryan has answered those questions in the dail...

RTE online

apparently we will be starting testing in Oct... no mention of the "commercial" service - maybe they have realised its a dead duck :eek:

Fingleberries

slicedpanman wrote: »

looks like E.Ryan has answered those questions in the dail...

RTE online

apparently we will be starting testing in Oct... no mention of the "commercial" service - maybe they have realised its a dead duck :eek:

Welcome to 1999, everyone ... Déja vú as we enter another phase of DTT Testing. I'm confused as to what has been happening for the last couple of years.

doney84

What d F*** !!! I thought we were currently testing DTT What does he mean tests will start in OCTOBER ???

galtee boy

slicedpanman wrote: »

looks like E.Ryan has answered those questions in the dail...

RTE online

apparently we will be starting testing in Oct... no mention of the "commercial" service - maybe they have realised its a dead duck :eek:

So I presume this means that he has backtracked yet again, ie there won't be a proper launch of the public service mux as promised by October 31st ? To me, a "Test" capacity as he calls it, means channels will be on and off etc, as TV3 is now. What does he call what was going on with DTT for the last 12 months, if they weren't tests ?
I said it before and I'll say it again, pay Sky for your digital version of Irish terrestrial channels or stick with crappy analogue for several more years. It's true for what a tv dealer said to me sometime ago, this country is an electronics and broadcasting backwater, not to mention a joke.:mad:

icdg

31st December 2011 launch? So he's going to launch a major consumer product...on New Years Eve??? Really??? When management will be on holidays and technical support staff will be down to a minimum? When shops will be in the middle of sales??? Has he consulted with the electonics trade (or anyone!!!) regarding this.

Presumably he really means BY 31/12/11 rather than on????

Incidently, if that roll out schedule proves true (and do we really need another year of testing) I cannot see ASO taking place in 2012 and would doubt we would see it by 2015.

That article is unbelievable. Surely someone has got something wrong and they mean that the service will be launched in October and it will be fully rolled out by 31/12/11. Surely...but I think by now we have learnt there are no surelys when it comes to the long, long, long history of DTT or the lack thereof in this country.

Mr McBoatface

Anyone know where to get the actual records/transcripts of todays Dail questions & answers. Thats gotta be reported incorrectly .

The Cush

Not having read or seen what the Minister actually said but my assumption is that there will be approx 90% coverage by the end of Oct but complete coverage will not be achieved until near the end of 2011 considering the recent comments from RTÉ that "a revised overall infrastructure plan will be prepared over the coming months" because of failure to find a commercial partner.

A slower rollout of the network to the remaining 10% of the population. So not fully launched service until the end of 2011.

watty

Keep checking here:
http://www.kildarestreet.com/search/?s=DTT

comments welcome http://www.techtir.ie/

Sounds like Nov 2010 is a soft launch and Jan 2012 is National Service.

Mr Ryan: What is with all the 19shillings 11pence halfpenny dates?

• 31st Oct 2010 Test,
• 31st Dec 2011 Launch,
• 31st Dec 2012 A.S.O.?

Martin_F

Interestingly - only one question/answer is documented and nothing about dates.

http://debates.oireachtas.ie/DDebate.aspx?F=DAL20100601.xml&Node=H3-1#H3-1

The RTE report could be seen as a rewording of his recent official answer - when he said 90% coverage by Oct.

By calling it a test service from Oct - there is no obligation regards QOS nor for TV3 to be carried. That would only be requied at the end of 2011 - which was kind of the date Ryan had said for the full svc.

Also it could argued his previous dates refer to the RTENL transmission network/service - rather than the TV service it would carry.

Sam Russell

watty wrote: »

Sounds like Nov 2010 is a soft launch and Jan 2012 is National Service.

Mr Ryan: What is with all the 19shillings 11pence halfpenny dates?

• 31st Oct 2010 Test,
• 31st Dec 2011 Launch,
• 31st Dec 2012 A.S.O.?

I thought the tests started 1st Aug 1998. Launch was BEFORE 31st Oct 2010, and ASO was by 31st Dec 2011, but then again, the MOU said BBC would be FTA on Monday, but by Thursday it was to be PAID FOR.

What a succession of disappointments and failures by a failed government of FFing numpties. They might not all be be green but they are certainly cabbages.

scath

Sam Russell wrote: »

I thought the tests started 1st Aug 1998. Launch was BEFORE 31st Oct 2010, and ASO was by 31st Dec 2011, but then again, the MOU said BBC would be FTA on Monday, but by Thursday it was to be PAID FOR.

What a succession of disappointments and failures by a failed government of FFing numpties. They might not all be be green but they are certainly cabbages.

at the cabbages metaphor, I know I should be showing the :eek: face but can only help either :mad: or :D regarding the dates the article bring confusion to the issue now lol

carrolls

scath wrote: »

at the cabbages metaphor, I know I should be showing the :eek: face but can only help either :mad: or :D regarding the dates the article bring confusion to the issue now lol

"Test capacity", "On a paid for basis" etc. That guy is seriously starting to irritate me at the minute.

endakenny

slicedpanman wrote: »

looks like E.Ryan has answered those questions in the dail...

RTE online

apparently we will be starting testing in Oct... no mention of the "commercial" service - maybe they have realised its a dead duck :eek:

The government was pig-headed in insisting that there be a commercial partner for DTT. For Freeview in the UK, the BBC, ITV and Channel 4 joined forces to provide FTA DTT. RTÉ, TV3 and TG4 should put aside their differences and launch a similar enterprise. Furthermore, if the licence fee alone is enough for the BBC to provide DTT for 62 million people, then the fact that RTÉ get commercial income as well as the licence fee means that RTÉ has enough money to go digital. Any financial problems at RTÉ are aggravated by an excess number of clerical staff, like the HSE.

carrolls

endakenny wrote: »

Furthermore, if the licence fee alone is enough for the BBC to provide DTT for 62 million people, then the fact that RTÉ get commercial income as well as the licence fee means that RTÉ has enough money to go digital.

These are 22 million license holders in the UK as opposed to 1.2 million in Southern Ireland. If the license costs a similar amount in both territories, I don't think you can compare the two situations as you did.
Having said that, over the last number of years there has been incredible financial wastage in RTE, I don't want to go into specifics but they have pissed away millions. And now they are broke. They based their roll-out of DTT on flawed premise that some company with more money than sense was going to finance the operation. Bob Hope.

ynotdu

Just a humble question to those who know the history of this.
It was never of real importance of Me as unlike some others i have always had access to either cable or Satellite.

My understanding of the digital switch over was that the freeing up of the frequencies would bring financial windfalls via the released spectrum.{in the form of sell-offs to phone companies etc.}

My question is before the economic collapse would it have been possible to bring Satellite scrambled channels to Irish DTT(like freeview in the UK does)if the phone providers etc paid for the carridge in return for the use of masts and spectrum?

Would it still be possible if a rental agreement could be agreed instead of a windfall to Govt coffers?

thanks in advance

P.S Watty great to see You posting again