DTT Commercial Multiplexes (was OneVision, Boxer etc...)

watty

endakenny wrote: »

Why? The exchequer was awash with money in 2000, wasn't it?

Because the Gov. decided there should be a separate PayTV partner. Took a year to pass legislation and of course only the Financially suicidal would invest in Irish pay DTT. Not sure why any of the 2006-2008 crop bid originally, unless there was some incentive offered we didn't hear about that later vanished, hence they all pulled out.

The Cush

endakenny wrote: »

Why? The exchequer was awash with money in 2000, wasn't it?

Remember the Dot Com bubble, it went bust about that time. Also around that time finances in RTÉ were not so good with the government planning to sell the network division to pay for the transmission network upgrade.

This from an Irish Times article about that time, sound familiar doesn't it

More than a year later, the Government has not yet awarded a licence to operate a service in the Republic despite running a 12-month tender. The sole bidder for the licence, a consortium known as "It's TV", has not been able to satisfy the Government that it has the necessary financial muscle to fund a network.

Media analysts believe that it would cost up to €100 million to fund the construction of a digital terrestrial network, subsidise set-top boxes for consumers and market the digital television service. It would also prove extremely difficult for the new service to compete against existing operators such as Chorus, NTL and Sky.

The current cash crisis afflicting the technology, telecoms and pay TV sectors would also make it extremely difficult to attract financing for the service. The demise of several European digital terrestrial television services over the past 12 months - most notably ITV Digital in the UK - suggests that setting up a network would prove challenging.

Bearing in mind the current economic difficulties facing the Government, it would prove politically difficult for the public sector to shoulder the costs of the network.

The Cush

watty wrote: »

Because the Gov. decided there should be a separate PayTV partner. Took a year to pass legislation and of course only the Financially suicidal would invest in Irish pay DTT. Not sure why any of the 2006-2008 crop bid originally, unless there was some incentive offered we didn't hear about that later vanished, hence they all pulled out.

Four parties expressed an interest in applying, only one party, the “Its TV” consortium, submitted a proposal by the deadline of 3 August 2001. No information as to who the other three were.

Whatever became of "Its TV" main man Peter Brannigan?

The Cush

This from siliconrepublic.com today (Paul Donovan Eircom CEO)

Donovan said he was disappointed that as a 65pc shareholder in the One Vision Consortium, the company was unable to agree to commercial terms for the rollout of a commercial digital terrestrial television (DTT) in this country.

“With the right circumstances, Eircom remains optimistic for the prospects of commercial DTT in Ireland and we await the decisions of the Broadcast Authority of Ireland as it reviews next steps in the process,” he concluded.

Also this from the Irish Times on Friday 28th

Mr Donovan said he was disappointed that the Eircom-led OneVision consortium had not been able to agree commercial terms on the introduction of commercial digital terrestrial television (DTT).

“We found it impossible to conclude a contract with RTÉ NL but that’s more of a problem for RTÉ than for us.”

He said OneVision “still exists” and was willing to enter into discussions with the Broadcasting Authority of Ireland (BAI) on DTT in the future.

“We await the BAI’s determination on DTT,” he said.

Sam Russell

That might lead to a consortium of Eircom and RTE to run it. RTE fund the broadcast/distribution and content; while Eircom look after the billing and STB/encryption. Sounds like a possibility. RTE are left with the infrastructure anyway.

Any chance of the Welsh subscribing?

watty

1) RTE have only done a fraction of Infrastructure for payTV. Moving onward in time they have 100s of sites to do, which will only be PSB mux.

2) RTE don't have money to roll out the next pahse of PayTV muxes, nor buy content for any Pay Muxes.

3) eircom don't have the money to invest in PayTV at all, not even encryption/Call center/Advertising

4) You're reporting "Silicon Republic" which really only prints Adverts and press releases. That's an old comment by eircom made when they pulled out. If eircom really beleives

“With the right circumstances, Eircom remains optimistic for the prospects of commercial DTT in Ireland and we await the decisions of the Broadcast Authority of Ireland as it reviews next steps in the process,”

Then they know little about the economics of PayTV in general and DTT plus Irish Pay TV in particular

watty

Sam Russell wrote: »

Any chance of the Welsh subscribing?

Only for TG4 & RTE by satellite, maybe. That is already there if Sky, TG4 & RTE and the rights holders agreed a price and there was a market. N.I. gets TG4 & RTE via satellite & cable.

I take it that was a humorous comment rather than a serious suggestion.


Irish PayTV DTT is dead, it was always ever an illusion. Only a "Top up TV" niche pay service AFTER analogue switch off has any chance of making money. Even then compared to UK it's dubious.

Sam Russell

watty wrote: »

I take it that was a humorous comment rather than a serious suggestion.

The comment about Welsh subscribers was a reference to Black Briar claiming RTENL are jamming the Welsh transmitters. Perhaps a few Welsh subscribers to Irish PayTV might justify it.:D

watty

Z zz zzz zzz...


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The Cush

watty wrote: »

1) RTE have only done a fraction of Infrastructure for payTV. Moving onward in time they have 100s of sites to do, which will only be PSB mux.

2) RTE don't have money to roll out the next pahse of PayTV muxes, nor buy content for any Pay Muxes.

3) eircom don't have the money to invest in PayTV at all, not even encryption/Call center/Advertising

4) You're reporting "Silicon Republic" which really only prints Adverts and press releases. That's an old comment by eircom made when they pulled out.

1. Approx 188 sites will have the PSB Mux I believe and approx 44 sites with the commercial muxes (RTÉNL info).

2. I agree, having spent €30 - €40 million already and a similar amount required to finish the network upgrade the money isn't there to get involved in commercial DTT. A report in the Irish Examiner earlier this week reported that neither Denis O'Brien or RTÉ would be interested in re-tendering.

3. I agree, €3.31 billion in debt and claims that they could collapse within six months.

4. Incorrect, that information comes from its 3rd Quarter and Nine Month results report to 31 March 2010 (page 3) which was released today.

...

Finally, as a 65% shareholder in the One Vision Consortium, eircom was disappointed it was unable to agree
commercial terms for the rollout of commercial Digital Terrestrial Television (DTT) network. With the right
circumstances, eircom remains optimistic for the prospects of commercial DTT in Ireland and we await the
decisions of the Broadcast Authority of Ireland as it reviews next steps in the process.

27 May 2010

watty

The Cush wrote: »

4. Incorrect, that information comes from its 3rd Quarter and Nine Month results report to 31 March 2010 (page 3) which was released today.

I'm nearly right

Eircom have recycled the comment into their 3rd quarter report and Silicon republic have simply published an extract. The phrase was reported before

The Cush

watty wrote: »

I'm nearly right

Eircom have recycled the comment into their 3rd quarter report and Silicon republic have simply published an extract. The phrase was reported before

Nearly right or precisely wrong

Does it matter if it was reported before (link?), is it wrong to publish an extract?

Whatever your dislikes of siliconrepublic.com its report was based on eircom's 3rd quarter results released yesterday.

ftakeith

it would give sky the chance to get involved with irish pay dtt in a few years

slegs

ftakeith wrote: »

it would give sky the chance to get involved with irish pay dtt in a few years

Think that would be fairly low on the list of priorities if they were to buy a multibillion euro company like Eircom (with the debt it has). Braodband might be the bigger attraction maybe?

The Cush

ftakeith wrote: »

sky should buy eircom

it would give sky the chance to get involved with irish pay dtt in a few years

They got their chance last year and didn't buy, STT did. There's probably a much cheaper way to get into DTT.

BoredNaMoaner

Maybe I am blind, but I cannot see any advantage to Sky being involved in DTT in any way, unless it is to torpedo the whole enterprise. What I find strange is that it doesn't seem to have entered the Broadband market and offered the packages the UK have. I suppose the decrepit standard of the broadband infrastructure has a lot to blame for that.

There was an article a few days ago in the Guardian
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010/may/26/virgin-channels-bskyb-five-sale
It mentioned BSKYB optimism in pushing ahead with the Picnic DTT service, so it makes sense to somebody.

scath

BoredNaMoaner wrote: »

Maybe I am blind, but I cannot see any advantage to Sky being involved in DTT in any way, unless it is to torpedo the whole enterprise. What I find strange is that it doesn't seem to have entered the Broadband market and offered the packages the UK have. I suppose the decrepit standard of the broadband infrastructure has a lot to blame for that.

There was an article a few days ago in the Guardian
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010/may/26/virgin-channels-bskyb-five-sale
It mentioned BSKYB optimism in pushing ahead with the Picnic DTT service, so it makes sense to somebody.

Was talking to a lad involved in Wimax broadband yesterday, quite knowledgeable chap. He was saying that Sky have been talking to Eircom a while now, from what he understands of it but the wholesale costs etc are the issue and speeds I suppose. Defo Sky would have been looking at the doing here what they do in the UK.

The Cush

Written answer to Dáil question yesterday

Broadcasting Services

219. Deputy Caoimhghín Ó Caoláin asked the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources when RTÉ will be in a position to conclude its digital tests and issue the Saorview logo to manufacturers; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [22445/10]

Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources (Deputy Eamon Ryan): In accordance with section 130 of the Broadcasting Act, 2009 RTÉ is required to take steps to promote the availability of Digital Terrestrial Television (DTT) receiver equipment. In relation to such equipment (receivers, televisions and set top boxes), RTÉ has contracted Teracom to test receivers against the Irish DTT specification. A manufacturer must submit their products to Teracom for testing and once the product has passed the tests they can apply to RTÉ to use the RTÉ SAORVIEW logo. This logo will indicate compatibility with the Irish DTT specification.

This testing and certification process is an operational and contractual matter for RTÉ. That said, I have been informed by RTÉ, however, that Teracom have received enquiries from a number of parties expressing interest in submitting receivers for test. To date, one manufacturer has submitted a receiver and this is currently being tested. I understand that RTÉ is aware of a number of other manufacturers that have expressed interest. RTÉ only issues the Saorview logo on completion of this technical certification process.

http://debates.oireachtas.ie/DDebate.aspx?F=DAL20100527.XML&Page=2&Ex=1707#N1707

10000maniacs

The Cush wrote: »

Written answer to Dáil question yesterday

That kind of sums up the last 10 years really. This STB testing should have started the minute they decided to use the MPEG 4 system. Its called multi-tasking. The problem is that Ryan has difficulty single-tasking let alone multi-tasking.

John mac

I notice he didnt answer the question..

nothing out of the ordinary there.:rolleyes:

10000maniacs

Its interesting that they are using the Swedish STBs, so here is how Swedish DTT panned out.

The digital terrestrial television network was launched on April 1, 1999, making Sweden the second country in Europe to launch digital terrestrial television. It then contained only SVT1, SVT2 and SVT24. Five regional SVT channels launched some months later.

Commercial License granted January 2000. A fourth multiplex was launched in the spring. After this, the DTT network looked like this:

MUX A: SVT1, SVT2, SVT24 and five regional channels.
MUX B: TV4, an extra stream from TV4, eTV and regional channels (Stockholm 1, NollEttan, DTU7 and Skånekanalen)
MUX C: Canal+, Canal+ Gul, Canal+ Blå, Kanal 5, K World
MUX TV3, ZTV, TV8, TV1000 and Viasat Sport


Compare this to Ireland:D:D
launching in Autumn 2010
MUX A: RTE1, RTE2, TV3(?) , TG4, News Loop channel:D
MUX B: nothing:D
MUX C: nothing:D
MUX nothing:D

Elmo

10000maniacs wrote: »

Its interesting that they are using the Swedish STBs, so here is how Swedish DTT panned out.

The digital terrestrial television network was launched on April 1, 1999, making Sweden the second country in Europe to launch digital terrestrial television. It then contained only SVT1, SVT2 and SVT24. Five regional SVT channels launched some months later.

Commercial License granted January 2000. A fourth multiplex was launched in the spring. After this, the DTT network looked like this:

MUX A: SVT1, SVT2, SVT24 and five regional channels.
MUX B: TV4, an extra stream from TV4, eTV and regional channels (Stockholm 1, NollEttan, DTU7 and Skånekanalen)
MUX C: Canal+, Canal+ Gul, Canal+ Blå, Kanal 5, K World
MUX TV3, ZTV, TV8, TV1000 and Viasat Sport

It is ironic to think that the Swedish experience was a good one. Yes you are right to say that they were up and running after a year, but it would not be until the 25% of non-subscribing Satellite and Cable customers would actually take up Digital that BOXER would be successful and even then they weren't happy since they felt the government were giving the State owned company a hand up in terms of the roll out of the service by forcing people to take up Digital by switching off Analogue. The swedes may not be overly happy with Boxer.

Oh and may I also commend the swedes on having a number of extra Swedish channels on their DTT, strange not to see the BBC on that list especially when it is quite popular in Sweden. And yes I know TV3 is broadcast from the UK (or at least was).

Mux A: RTÉ 1, 2, RTÉ NL 1, TG4, RTÉ NN, RTÉ NL 2

Digital radio from RTÉ Radio 1, Extra, 2FM, RnaG and Lyric what happened the other digital radio stations?

scath

He did answer the question I think, but not in a direct way.

Firstly the issue of the Saorview logo can happen once stb's are submitted and pass the tests. One is currently in the process and others have expressed interest is what he understood.

With regards to the end of the tests, the launch date is October 31st, which means that testing can go on until October 30th but in reality might stop afew days before hand as RTÉ NL's website says.

At the moment DTT information and launch plans are being finalised from what I gather from enquries. When that is completed then RTÉ NL's website will be updated.

Also RTÉ International is on hold until the economic situation improves though still under consideration. Wonder how the stakeholder meeting went. I suspect should be summit in papers tomorrow or sunday. Board meeting next week isn't it.

10000maniacs

Elmo wrote: »

Oh and may I also commend the swedes on having a number of extra Swedish channels on their DTT, strange not to see the BBC on that list especially when it is quite popular in Sweden.?

That list is from Spring 2000.
Their list for 2010 includes a BBC station.
As of 2010 the following line up is what they get now:

MUX 1: SVT1, SVT2, SVTK, SVTB, SVT24, SR P1, SR P2 Music and SR P3
MUX 2: TV4, TV4 Plus, TV4 Fakta, TV4 Film, TV6, CNN and TV400
MUX 3: Canal+ First, Canal+ Hits Sport Weekend, Canal+ Sport 1, Disney Channel, Kanal 5, SF-kanalen, TV3, TV8 and VH1
MUX 4: Animal Planet, Comedy Central, Discovery Channel, Eurosport, Kanal 9, MTV Sweden, Nickelodeon and ZTV
MUX 5: Axess TV, BBC World, Canal 7, Discovery Science, Discovery Travel & Living, Disney XD, Showtime, Star!, 7, Silver, TCM, TV4 Sport, 24nt/24Corren/24Norrbotten/Kanal 12 and TV Finland
MUX 6: Canal+ Sport HD, Discovery HD Showcase, Eurosport HD, Kanal 5 HD and Silver HD
MUX 7: SVT1 HD, SVT2 HD and TV4 HD

watty

Note there are native swedish/scandinavian pay TV.

We have TV3e

Elmo

10000maniacs wrote: »

That list is from Spring 2000.
Their list for 2010 includes a BBC station.
As of 2010 the following line up is what they get now:

I can only see one BBC channel, I assume that the swedes can also get FTA BBC via Satellite. The Swedes did have trouble with the roll out, I have more info on their experience should you want it.

Note there are native swedish/scandinavian pay TV.

It is still better than having no new native services.

We have TV3e

And setanta. (City Channel )


Also their FTA TV is as follows: -

STV 1, 2, 3, B, News, TV4,Educational Channel (from STV and OUT), Viasat 6 (sister to TV3), TV Finland.

Also note their move to MPEG4.

10000maniacs

Elmo wrote: »

I can only see one BBC channel, .

:rolleyes:
Well lets be rational about this line you are taking Elmo, the BBC is a bit too err.... "English" for a Swedish speaking nation.

Elmo

10000maniacs wrote: »

:rolleyes:
Well lets be rational about this line you are taking Elmo, the BBC is a bit too err.... "English" for a Swedish speaking nation.

Funny that, I would have also thought that the err... Finnish speaking FTA "Finnish TV" channel was a bit "Finnish" for a Swedish speaking nation. :rolleyes:

By the way my point was not about BBC on Irish DTT but about commercial non-native services on DTT, and this has been my point all along.

surf board

Elmo wrote: »

Funny that, I would have also thought that the err... Finnish speaking FTA "Finnish TV" channel was a bit "Finnish" for a Swedish speaking nation. :rolleyes:

By the way my point was not about BBC on Irish DTT but about commercial non-native services on DTT, and this has been my point all along.

Finnish is taught in Swedish schools, (mainly on the borders) & vice versa. English is also taught in Finland but Swedish is their second language & the majority are fluent in both.

Wish they would just launch it & have one Rte station in HD (maybe temporarily for the world cup at least )

icdg

There has been a framework in place for businesses/entrepenuers/media moguls/whoever to set up new native Irish commercial TV channels since the Broadcasting Act 2001 (s.36-41) was passed. DTT was never needed for these, cable and satellite have provided distribution platforms. Nearly ten years on and the only such channels that have been set up are 3e, City Channel, and the Setanta Sports channels.

Saying that such services should be set up is one thing. Have you got a good idea for a commercial TV service? Adequate funding for the aquisition of programming? Then go apply for a cable/MMDS content contract from the BAI and set one up!

The fact is that there is only limited scope for such services in the Irish market. Aside from the accent on the trailer voiceovers 3e is little different from Sky One/E4/Virgin 1. City is built on extended infomercials. Setanta has been a success in this market but still has funding problems and its well documented failure in the UK still hangs over it.

The fact is that we are well served by UK services of this nature. How would Irish services differ from these UK ones. If 3e is anything to go by, not by much. This isn't just an Irish thing, it is common to many markets where there are a large country and smaller countries sharing a common langauge and culture and neighbouring each other. See Germany and Austria, France and Waloonia, Australia and New Zealand etc. Canada largely avoids it through two rather draconian regulatory provisions (the simultanious substitution rule and the rule that if a Canadian speciality channel is set up, its nearest US equivilant is not allowed to be carried on Canadian cable and satellite systems). Such provisions would be illegal here due to Television without Frontiers, and would likely annoy viewers anyway.