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Pope's Pastoral Letter

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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,793 ✭✭✭✭Hagar


    Go to Mass on Sunday and when the letter is read out get up and walk out. You probably won't leave alone. Have the courage to act.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 640 ✭✭✭Michaelrsh


    69 wrote: »
    Go to Mass on Sunday and when the letter is read out get up and walk out. You probably won't leave alone. Have the courage to act.

    Take's a great idea actually ... except I'm atheist.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,547 ✭✭✭Agricola


    Biggins wrote: »
    Pity the previous popes, bishops and offending priests didn't think to cover their congregations asses instead first!

    In the solemn spirit of this thread, I will resist posting a tasteless joke!
    69 wrote: »
    Go to Mass on Sunday and when the letter is read out get up and walk out. You probably won't leave alone. Have the courage to act.

    Thats a great idea except 95% of priests wont even address the issue. Im my parish the elderly priest talks about the meaning of the gospel, how we should be nice to our neighbours, stuff like that!


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Agricola wrote: »
    In the solemn spirit of this thread, I will resist posting a tasteless joke!
    Correct and understandable.
    I wasn't attempting to be funny either, just to be clear.
    In they had behaved appropriately at the right time, from a long time ago, they honestly wouldn't have been in this mess right now.

    As someone once said "Ye reap what ye sow..."


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,793 ✭✭✭✭Hagar


    Michaelrsh wrote: »
    Take's a great idea actually ... except I'm atheist.
    So am I, should that stop us going? Who are we going to offend? Magic Invisible Man and his merry band of child molesters?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,550 ✭✭✭Min


    69 wrote: »
    Go to Mass on Sunday and when the letter is read out get up and walk out. You probably won't leave alone. Have the courage to act.

    No intention of walking out, I have nothing against the priest so why would I want to make it personal with him?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 640 ✭✭✭Michaelrsh


    Min wrote: »
    No intention of walking out, I have nothing against the priest so why would I want to make it personal with him?

    So, he is still affiliated with a corrupt organisation. I'd say walk out but do it as a protest against the Catholic Church itself and not the individual priest, maybe say a word to him after about it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,793 ✭✭✭✭Hagar


    Just make sure you hold on to your child's hand.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,550 ✭✭✭Min


    Michaelrsh wrote: »
    So, he is still affiliated with a corrupt organisation. I'd say walk out but do it as a protest against the Catholic Church itself and not the individual priest, maybe say a word to him after about it.

    I am affiliated with the church, the church is made up of it's members, I do not want to miss out on the Eucharist through a silly protest that would do feck all.
    It is like walking away from a problem than actually dealing with it.

    I see the child protection policy in place and I don't go to mass to protest, what happened is a terrible shame on all Catholics as we are associated with abuse like the innocent priests who never abused.
    My Catholic faith and what happened in the Catholic church are two entirely separate things.

    Are people going to walk out of hospitals to refuse treatment because 20 children died in state care under the HSE, 10 of natural causes, 10 of unknown but unnatural causes.
    One has to put things into perspective, I am not going to walk out of mass, I like going to mass on a Sunday, I have no problem with the mass or the priest who celebrates it.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,793 ✭✭✭✭Hagar


    Can any of the Catholics on here state for an absolute fact that there parish priest has not been moved from another parish because of unsavoury acts? No is the only honest answer to that. For a moment draw the distinction between belief and knowledge.

    Now I not accusing your PP of anything I'm just asking you to question the hierarchy that has done that innumerable times in the past and everybody in the new parish thought that the new priest was a decent man when in fact he was the lowest criminal you can imagine. That same hierarchy is still running the show and some of those priests are still serving mass somewhere to an oblivious community.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11,221 ✭✭✭✭m5ex9oqjawdg2i


    Oremus wrote: »
    Should be released tomorrow. Pope Benedict says it should be read "with an open heart and in a spirit of faith".

    I don't like the pre-emptive spin that the liberal media are already putting on this letter. It's as if they've already made up their minds and are simply sharpening their little axes in preparation to have another go at those tasked with cleansing the organisation and providing recompense to victims.

    I see the crusty communists over on indymedia.ie are planning to defile the altar of Christ at churches all over the country on the most important day of the Catholic calendar: Easter Sunday, April 4th. How brave.

    Any shít the church and it's scumbag rulers get is well deserved. An eternity of scrutiny, persecution and hatred is what they deserve.
    Oremus wrote: »
    In other words: I'm not open to the idea of the Catholic Church trying their best to heal deep wounds. If you want to live out your days being a bitter man, that's your perogative.

    Why didn't they do this 100 years ago? Or 50 years ago? Because nobody had the balls to oppose them, nobody knew of the things they done in secret, they didn't give a damn, and it is only now that they are trying to fix things as everybody knows the crap they done. They don't give a shít about anybody, they are just saving face, what's left of it.
    Oremus wrote: »
    "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone"

    It's inevitable that an organisation on the scale of the Church will succumb to human failings. And to compound matters: unlike employees who work 40 hours a week and can engage in their perversions outside office hours, priests represent God's Church 24-7.

    :rolleyes:
    prinz wrote: »
    Indeed. Sadly predictable.

    They deserve every bit of crap they get. I wish it was more to be honest.
    69 wrote: »
    So am I, should that stop us going? Who are we going to offend? Magic Invisible Man and his merry band of child molesters?

    Would you go to a mosque to protest against some of their wrong doings?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,790 ✭✭✭cornbb


    Min wrote: »
    I am affiliated with the church, the church is made up of it's members, I do not want to miss out on the Eucharist through a silly protest that would do feck all.
    It is like walking away from a problem than actually dealing with it.

    I see the child protection policy in place and I don't go to mass to protest, what happened is a terrible shame on all Catholics as we are associated with abuse like the innocent priests who never abused.
    My Catholic faith and what happened in the Catholic church are two entirely separate things.

    Are people going to walk out of hospitals to refuse treatment because 20 children died in state care under the HSE, 10 of natural causes, 10 of unknown but unnatural causes.
    One has to put things into perspective, I am not going to walk out of mass, I like going to mass on a Sunday, I have no problem with the mass or the priest who celebrates it.

    It's called voting with your feet. What else would you do about it? You are supporting them simply by showing up to mass and saying nothing. Are you just continuing to show your support for an organisation that clearly has no agenda except to protect and propagate itself? Show me some evidence that the church has plans to do anything but that. Maybe your local priest is a good man, but his first obligations are to a hierarchy that should be disgraced.

    What I'm hearing from the "faithful" is "it's a terrible shame that all of that stuff happened, let's be sorry it happened and move on". It's shameful that the church is still merely trying to protect itself and that massgoers are burying their heads in the sand and/or closing ranks instead of denouncing the church, or at the very least demanding reform. I have no problems with religious/spiritual people, I have problems with people who feel obliged to defend and support the Catholic church in light of the very evil things they have been doing for centuries.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 640 ✭✭✭Michaelrsh


    Min wrote: »
    I see the child protection policy in place.

    OK, I accept everything else you're saying and I don't want to interfere with your beliefs or anything like that. Just in relation to the new child protection policy the church has laid down.

    I know an individual (I'm not going to specify my relation to this individual but I will say they are very close) who is a very strong believer in the catholic faith. That individual was appointed child protection officer for a certain parish in the east of the country. (I will say that the general population within the parish is fairly large). This individual had many affiliations with that parish for nearly a decade, for reasons I will not specify. However, that individual, the new child protection officer for the parish, lives on the order of 20 km from the parish and only visits there once a week for an hour to go to mass. Meetings are held once every two months for 2 hours for the parish pastoral council. (Might I highlight the issue of child protection is only a small part of the meetings). So for about 15 minutes every 2 months the issue of child protection is discussed.

    In my honest opinion, if this is how the church treats the issue of child protection is every parish in the country, I think it is an absolute disgrace. To put the issue more sensitively, I would say that the ruling class of the catholic church are an absolute disgrace.


  • Registered Users Posts: 208 ✭✭dunleakelleher


    Min wrote: »
    It is like walking away from a problem than actually dealing with it.

    I like your play on words.
    That's why the RCC is in the s#it in the first place. Not only ignoring the problem but facilitating paedophiles to find new victim in new diocese when they were caught.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,793 ✭✭✭✭Hagar


    Would you go to a mosque to protest against some of their wrong doings?
    Have you any evidence of child abuse by Muslim Clerics? Do you think they would tolerate it? How do you think they would punish it?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,682 ✭✭✭LookingFor


    Reading the document linked to earlier...is this the oath administered to those kids with Brady? Or a different one?

    i.e. is it the one talking about excommunication, and binding them to secrecy even in the light of a greater good etc?

    I have to say, that document is, at first glance, very shocking.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11,221 ✭✭✭✭m5ex9oqjawdg2i


    69 wrote: »
    Have you any evidence of child abuse by Muslim Clerics? Do you think they would tolerate it? How do you think they would punish it?

    The fcuk are you talking about?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,619 ✭✭✭fontanalis


    As much as the Roman Catholic Church needs the shyte scrutinized out of it Irish society at the time (some of the very people probably complaining to Joe Duffy and the like about every petty thing) needs the same.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,550 ✭✭✭Min


    cornbb wrote: »
    It's called voting with your feet. What else would you do about it? You are supporting them simply by showing up to mass and saying nothing. Are you just continuing to show your support for an organisation that clearly has no agenda except to protect and propagate itself? Show me some evidence that the church has plans to do anything but that. Maybe your local priest is a good man, but his first obligations are to a hierarchy that should be disgraced.

    What I'm hearing from the "faithful" is "it's a terrible shame that all of that stuff happened, let's be sorry it happened and move on". It's shameful that the church is still merely trying to protect itself and that massgoers are burying their heads in the sand and/or closing ranks instead of denouncing the church, or at the very least demanding reform. I have no problems with religious/spiritual people, I have problems with people who feel obliged to defend and support the Catholic church in light of the very evil things they have been doing for centuries.

    No one is saying to move on and forget about it.

    Yes, terrible evil has been committed, reading your rant it doesn't acknowledge the good done by Catholics and it is the Catholics that are the Catholic church.
    One would think that the church only takes part in evil which is very much wrong.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,550 ✭✭✭Min


    Michaelrsh wrote: »
    OK, I accept everything else you're saying and I don't want to interfere with your beliefs or anything like that. Just in relation to the new child protection policy the church has laid down.

    I know an individual (I'm not going to specify my relation to this individual but I will say they are very close) who is a very strong believer in the catholic faith. That individual was appointed child protection officer for a certain parish in the east of the country. (I will say that the general population within the parish is fairly large). This individual had many affiliations with that parish for nearly a decade, for reasons I will not specify. However, that individual, the new child protection officer for the parish, lives on the order of 20 km from the parish and only visits there once a week for an hour to go to mass. Meetings are held once every two months for 2 hours for the parish pastoral council. (Might I highlight the issue of child protection is only a small part of the meetings). So for about 15 minutes every 2 months the issue of child protection is discussed.

    In my honest opinion, if this is how the church treats the issue of child protection is every parish in the country, I think it is an absolute disgrace. To put the issue more sensitively, I would say that the ruling class of the catholic church are an absolute disgrace.

    I see two women with the altar servers everytime I go to church, one does work in the church for the mass, the other is another woman whom I don't know.

    It is a reminder every Sunday of the abuse that some people were subjected to.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,790 ✭✭✭cornbb


    Min wrote: »
    No one is saying to move on and forget about it.
    that is all that the church are saying, if you read between the lines.
    Yes, terrible evil has been committed, reading your rant it doesn't acknowledge the good done by Catholics and it is the Catholics that are the Catholic church.
    One would think that the church only takes part in evil which is very much wrong.

    I'll acknowledge that Catholics have done some good, but only as a by-product of the churches main agenda. That agenda, as I have said, is self preservation and expansion. It has run schools so it can indoctrinate children. It has sent missionaries abroad to swell it's own ranks. If you believe that the church has YOUR best interests at heart, I believe you are sorely mistaken.

    I find it sad that you insist on defending them. Do your allegiences lie with Christian morals and principles, or with the catholic church? Doesn't it disturb you that they are preaching one thing while doing another?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,793 ✭✭✭✭Hagar


    The fcuk are you talking about?
    Good response.

    Now, have you heard of child abuse being commited and covered up by any other Church? The Muslim Church in particular? If not, your original challenge for me to protest at a mosque is only more RCC mis-direction.


  • Registered Users Posts: 29 1in4


    I ACCEPT THAT THE PASTORAL OFFERS AN APOLOGY. IT ALSO OFFERS A PART SOLUTION FOR EACH OF US TO USE OUR FRIDAY RELIGIOUS OBSERVANCES IN SUCH A WAY THAT COULD CONTRIBUTE TO GOODNESS RATHER THAN JUST ADD TO THE NEGATIVE DARKNESS THAT IS PART OF OUR WORLD. JUST LOOKING AT SOME OF THE FOUL LANGUAGE CONTAINED IN SOME OF THESE THREAD RESPONSES IS AN INDICATION OF THE DARKNESS THAN CAN EXIST IN THE MINDS OF US ALL. LET THIS PASTORAL HAVE THE TIME IT DESERVES AND THE REFLECTION IT DESERVES. GIVE IT A CHANCE. DO NOT BE LIKE THE CRITICS WHO HAD THEIR NEGATIVE PRESS STATEMENTS READY WITHIN THE HOUR OF THE PASTORAL BEING RELEASED. THAT KIND OF SUPERFICIALITY WILL NOT HELP THE CAUSE OF ABUSE SURVIVORS ONE IOTA. THIS IS MY HEARTFELT OPINION ON WHAT IS A VERY BAD SITUATION FOR HUMANITY IN THIS COUNTRY. :)


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    I ACCEPT THAT THE PASTORAL OFFERS AN APOLOGY. IT ALSO OFFERS A PART SOLUTION FOR EACH OF US TO USE OUR FRIDAY RELIGIOUS OBSERVANCES IN SUCH A WAY THAT COULD CONTRIBUTE TO GOODNESS RATHER THAN JUST ADD TO THE NEGATIVE DARKNESS THAT IS PART OF OUR WORLD. JUST LOOKING AT SOME OF THE FOUL LANGUAGE CONTAINED IN SOME OF THESE THREAD RESPONSES IS AN INDICATION OF THE DARKNESS THAN CAN EXIST IN THE MINDS OF US ALL. LET THIS PASTORAL HAVE THE TIME IT DESERVES AND THE REFLECTION IT DESERVES. GIVE IT A CHANCE. DO NOT BE LIKE THE CRITICS WHO HAD THEIR NEGATIVE PRESS STATEMENTS READY WITHIN THE HOUR OF THE PASTORAL BEING RELEASED. THAT KIND OF SUPERFICIALITY WILL NOT HELP THE CAUSE OF ABUSE SURVIVORS ONE IOTA. THIS IS MY HEARTFELT OPINION ON WHAT IS A VERY BAD SITUATION FOR HUMANITY IN THIS COUNTRY.

    Jeasus, 1in4 - hell of a signature you got there!
    Talk about ramming it down our throats!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11,221 ✭✭✭✭m5ex9oqjawdg2i


    69 wrote: »
    Good response.

    Now, have you heard of child abuse being commited and covered up by any other Church? The Muslim Church in particular? If not, your original challenge for me to protest at a mosque is only more RCC mis-direction.

    What the fcuk are you reading? Where did I say anything about the muslim church molesting defenseless little boys? I didn't. I simply asked:

    "Would you go to a mosque to protest against some of their wrong doings?"

    It's a pretty simple question, read it. It's in black and white.


  • Registered Users Posts: 29 1in4


    Thanks for the support!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 16,793 ✭✭✭✭Hagar


    What the fcuk are you reading? Where did I say anything about the muslim church molesting defenseless little boys? I didn't. I simply asked:

    "Would you go to a mosque to protest against some of their wrong doings?"

    It's a pretty simple question, read it. It's in black and white.
    Why would I go there if they are not doing it? That is more to the point.

    /Edit/ I get it now you mean wrong doings by Muslims as opposed to their clerics, that has nothing to do with this topic. That is a red herring.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 11,221 ✭✭✭✭m5ex9oqjawdg2i


    69 wrote: »
    Why would I go there if they are not doing it? That is more to the point.

    /Edit/ I get it now you mean wrong doings by Muslims as opposed to their clerics, that has nothing to do with this topic. That is a red herring.

    Now what the hell are you talking about?

    Look, it's sooo simple...

    Would you, go to a mosque, to protest against the wrong doings of their priest equivilant? Whatever that wrong doing may be? Would you? If they molested boys, would you go to their mosque to protest?


    *EDIT*

    Forget it... ;)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 330 ✭✭MackDeToaster


    Colm O'Gormans response, seems he's not very impressed either...

    http://colmogorman.com/?p=672

    Pretty much as I thought myself...

    "It was a simple enough an exercise. Acknowledge the fact of the cover up by the Church, take responsibility for it, and show how you will ensure it never happens again.

    But the Pope failed to do any of these things.

    If you think I am being too judgemental, then consider the following.

    At the end of the eight pages of fine words which fail to address the real issue at all we read what the Pope thinks are the steps to be taken to put things right.

    Catholics should pray, fast and do penance for a year in an effort to bring about the rebirth of the church in Ireland.

    And the Vatican will organise an Apostolic Visitation, a visit by its enforcers to some dioceses to ensure they are enforcing church law in dealing with child abuse.

    The same church law that has been previously used by bishops and church defenders to explain their cover up of abuse.
    You couldn’t make it up could you? "


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,550 ✭✭✭Min


    Colm O'Gorman doesn't know what he is talking about, he was too angry on Sky news and believed a letter to Catholics in Ireland didn't deal with the problem worldwide......d'oh it was for Catholics in Ireland.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 330 ✭✭MackDeToaster


    Months writing that eh, did he write it by throwing pasta and sauerkraut against the wall and see what came out ?



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 605 ✭✭✭j1smithy


    The thing thats most unsurprising about the letter is the typical AH bullshit response to it. There are so many militant athiests on this forum that unless the letter said the church was going to be disbanded and its assets taken from them, they wouldn't be happy, and yet even if he said that, there would still be some saying it didn't go far enough.

    AH... the Irish home of extremism.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,559 ✭✭✭DublinWriter


    j1smithy wrote: »
    The thing thats most unsurprising about the letter is the typical AH bullshit response to it. There are so many militant athiests on this forum that unless the letter said the church was going to be disbanded and its assets taken from them, they wouldn't be happy,
    I dunno...perhaps a simple "I'm sorry" would have worked?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 605 ✭✭✭j1smithy


    I dunno...perhaps a simple "I'm sorry" would have worked?

    Did you read it? It did say sorry.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,213 ✭✭✭Mrmoe


    j1smithy wrote: »
    Did you read it? It did say sorry.

    More like sorry we got caught.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,559 ✭✭✭DublinWriter


    j1smithy wrote: »
    Did you read it? It did say sorry.
    Where?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 605 ✭✭✭j1smithy


    Mrmoe wrote: »
    More like sorry we got caught.
    6. To the victims of abuse and their families
    You have suffered grievously and I am truly sorry. I know that
    nothing can undo the wrong you have endured. Your trust has been
    betrayed and your dignity has been violated. Many of you found that, when
    you were courageous enough to speak of what happened to you, no one
    would listen. Those of you who were abused in residential institutions must
    have felt that there was no escape from your sufferings. It is
    understandable that you find it hard to forgive or be reconciled with the
    Church. In her name, I openly express the shame and remorse that we all
    feel.

    He apologises personally, and on behaf of the Church as an organisation for what happened.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Even the New York Times comes out and states whats missing from the letter!

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/21/world/europe/21pope.html


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,619 ✭✭✭fontanalis


    j1smithy wrote: »
    The thing thats most unsurprising about the letter is the typical AH bullshit response to it. There are so many militant athiests on this forum that unless the letter said the church was going to be disbanded and its assets taken from them, they wouldn't be happy, and yet even if he said that, there would still be some saying it didn't go far enough.

    AH... the Irish home of extremism.


    http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt112/ausador/IronyMeterSplode.jpg


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 640 ✭✭✭Michaelrsh


    Personally, I think the least the Pope could do is to excommunicate the priests who abused children. Also, admit that the Vatican (and not just the Irish Church authorities) withheld certain information from the commission that investigated the abuse.

    Oh yeah, maybe the Pope should resign himself if it is proven that he tried to cover up abuses that happened in the German church fadó fadó when he was Archbishop of Munich and Freising.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,559 ✭✭✭DublinWriter


    j1smithy wrote: »
    He apologises personally, and on behaf of the Church as an organisation for what happened.
    Ah sorry, that makes it all OK so.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 605 ✭✭✭j1smithy


    Ah sorry, that makes it all OK so.

    Well you implied that an apology was missing from the letter, but yet clearly hadn't taken the time to even read it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 605 ✭✭✭j1smithy


    fontanalis wrote: »

    Irony, possibly the most misunderstood word in the english language.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,619 ✭✭✭fontanalis


    j1smithy wrote: »
    Irony, possibly the most misunderstood word in the english language.

    It's like rain on your wedding day.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,024 ✭✭✭Carry


    j1smithy wrote: »
    The thing thats most unsurprising about the letter is the typical AH bullshit response to it. There are so many militant athiests on this forum that unless the letter said the church was going to be disbanded and its assets taken from them, they wouldn't be happy, and yet even if he said that, there would still be some saying it didn't go far enough.

    AH... the Irish home of extremism.


    Ach, aye, I wish....:rolleyes:

    The catholic church is cornered. And all the lieutenants and followers are fighting with their backs to the wall coming up with accusations against those who exposed their wrongdoings.
    As long as no faithful catholic doesn't come up with some admission and heartfelt apology for believing in some authority which never should have an authority in the first place, I'm happy to be an extremist.

    I'm sure that Ratzinger, once the represantative of the holy inquisition (now with a new name - just forgot that name, sorry) would love to burn anyone at the stake who dares to critisize his decisions.

    You see, I consider the Vatican as something comparable to the Mafia: They make up their own rules, kill everyone who doesn't comply (in which sense ever - mind, soul, body), try to extort money from as many people as possible and keep the rule of omertà - silence. Not to mention their aim to world domination.

    Thank god (if there is one) for the worldwide network of people who broaden their minds beyond the so-called infallibility of some mafioso-pope.

    If there was ever democracy than the connection of people via internet has a bit to do with it.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,559 ✭✭✭DublinWriter


    j1smithy wrote: »
    Well you implied that an apology was missing from the letter, but yet clearly hadn't taken the time to even read it.
    I was hoping someone else would parse it for me - do mention me to Saint Peter and tell him I'm sorry too.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 605 ✭✭✭j1smithy


    I was hoping someone else would parse it for me - do mention me to Saint Peter and tell him I'm sorry too.

    :confused:


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    j1smithy wrote: »
    AH... the Irish home of extremism.

    There must be a lot of extremism about because I'm seeing the same type of review comments from the heavy New York Times to the tabloid sites, from Digg to forums home and abroad.

    Strange that people actually think alike.
    We must be all raving militant athiests across the globe! Crikey! :eek:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 640 ✭✭✭Michaelrsh


    This what the Pope said directly to the victims of abuse and their families in the pastoral letter;
    You have suffered grievously and I am truly sorry. I know that nothing can undo the wrong you have endured. Your trust has been betrayed and your dignity has been violated. Many of you found that, when you were courageous enough to speak of what happened to you, no one would listen. Those of you who were abused in residential insitutions must have felt that there was no escape from your sufferings. It is understandable that you find it hard to forgive or to be reconciled with the Church. In her name, I openly express the shame and remorse that we all fell. At the same time, I ask you not to lose hope. It is in the communion of the Church that we encounter the person of Jesus Christ, who was himself a victim of injustice and sin. Like you, he still bears the wounds of his own unjust suffering. He understands the depths of your pain and its enduring effect upon your lives and your relationships, including your relationship with the Church. I know some of you find it difficult even to enter the doors of a church after all that has occurred. Yet Christ's own wounds, transformed by his redemptive sufferings, are the very means by which the power of evil is broken and we are reborn to life and hope. I believe deeply in the healing power of self-sacrificing love - even in the darkest and most hopeless situations - to bring liberation and the promise of a new beginning.

    Speaking to you as a pastor concerned fot the goof of all God's children, I humbly ask you to concider what I have said. I pray that, by drawing nearer to Christ and by participating in the life of his Church - a Church purified by penance and renewed in pastoral charity - you will come to rediscover Christ's infinite love for each one of you. I am confident that in this way you will be able to find reconciliation, deep inner healing and peace.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 605 ✭✭✭j1smithy


    Carry wrote: »
    Ach, aye, I wish....:rolleyes:

    The catholic church is cornered. And all the lieutenants and followers are fighting with their backs to the wall coming up with accusations against those who exposed their wrongdoings.
    As long as no faithful catholic doesn't come up with some admission and heartfelt apology for believing in some authority which never should have an authority in the first place, I'm happy to be an extremist.

    Its not just the Catholic church that gets the extremists out, on every other issue, from Europe, to republicanism and immigration, you see strong views which simply do non exist among the population at large (shown in polls).

    However the topic at hand, please tell me some of these counter accusations against those who exposed their wrong doings?

    I remember a thread here at the start of the year when St Mels Cathedral was burned down. The apparent joy of some posters, who simply just do not like the church was astounding. I often get the impression that these people care nothing for the victims of abuse, but wish to use them to persue their own ideological agenda.


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