Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Pope's Pastoral Letter

Options
1…68101112

Comments

  • Options
    #212
    m5ex9oqjawdg2i
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,221 ✭✭✭✭m5ex9oqjawdg2i


    Oremus wrote: »
    Should be released tomorrow. Pope Benedict says it should be read "with an open heart and in a spirit of faith".

    I don't like the pre-emptive spin that the liberal media are already putting on this letter. It's as if they've already made up their minds and are simply sharpening their little axes in preparation to have another go at those tasked with cleansing the organisation and providing recompense to victims.

    I see the crusty communists over on indymedia.ie are planning to defile the altar of Christ at churches all over the country on the most important day of the Catholic calendar: Easter Sunday, April 4th. How brave.

    Any shít the church and it's scumbag rulers get is well deserved. An eternity of scrutiny, persecution and hatred is what they deserve.
    Oremus wrote: »
    In other words: I'm not open to the idea of the Catholic Church trying their best to heal deep wounds. If you want to live out your days being a bitter man, that's your perogative.

    Why didn't they do this 100 years ago? Or 50 years ago? Because nobody had the balls to oppose them, nobody knew of the things they done in secret, they didn't give a damn, and it is only now that they are trying to fix things as everybody knows the crap they done. They don't give a shít about anybody, they are just saving face, what's left of it.
    Oremus wrote: »
    "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone"

    It's inevitable that an organisation on the scale of the Church will succumb to human failings. And to compound matters: unlike employees who work 40 hours a week and can engage in their perversions outside office hours, priests represent God's Church 24-7.

    :rolleyes:
    prinz wrote: »
    Indeed. Sadly predictable.

    They deserve every bit of crap they get. I wish it was more to be honest.
    69 wrote: »
    So am I, should that stop us going? Who are we going to offend? Magic Invisible Man and his merry band of child molesters?

    Would you go to a mosque to protest against some of their wrong doings?


  • Options
    #213
    cornbb
    Registered Users Posts: 6,790 ✭✭✭cornbb


    Min wrote: »
    I am affiliated with the church, the church is made up of it's members, I do not want to miss out on the Eucharist through a silly protest that would do feck all.
    It is like walking away from a problem than actually dealing with it.

    I see the child protection policy in place and I don't go to mass to protest, what happened is a terrible shame on all Catholics as we are associated with abuse like the innocent priests who never abused.
    My Catholic faith and what happened in the Catholic church are two entirely separate things.

    Are people going to walk out of hospitals to refuse treatment because 20 children died in state care under the HSE, 10 of natural causes, 10 of unknown but unnatural causes.
    One has to put things into perspective, I am not going to walk out of mass, I like going to mass on a Sunday, I have no problem with the mass or the priest who celebrates it.

    It's called voting with your feet. What else would you do about it? You are supporting them simply by showing up to mass and saying nothing. Are you just continuing to show your support for an organisation that clearly has no agenda except to protect and propagate itself? Show me some evidence that the church has plans to do anything but that. Maybe your local priest is a good man, but his first obligations are to a hierarchy that should be disgraced.

    What I'm hearing from the "faithful" is "it's a terrible shame that all of that stuff happened, let's be sorry it happened and move on". It's shameful that the church is still merely trying to protect itself and that massgoers are burying their heads in the sand and/or closing ranks instead of denouncing the church, or at the very least demanding reform. I have no problems with religious/spiritual people, I have problems with people who feel obliged to defend and support the Catholic church in light of the very evil things they have been doing for centuries.


  • Options
    #214
    Michaelrsh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 640 ✭✭✭Michaelrsh


    Min wrote: »
    I see the child protection policy in place.

    OK, I accept everything else you're saying and I don't want to interfere with your beliefs or anything like that. Just in relation to the new child protection policy the church has laid down.

    I know an individual (I'm not going to specify my relation to this individual but I will say they are very close) who is a very strong believer in the catholic faith. That individual was appointed child protection officer for a certain parish in the east of the country. (I will say that the general population within the parish is fairly large). This individual had many affiliations with that parish for nearly a decade, for reasons I will not specify. However, that individual, the new child protection officer for the parish, lives on the order of 20 km from the parish and only visits there once a week for an hour to go to mass. Meetings are held once every two months for 2 hours for the parish pastoral council. (Might I highlight the issue of child protection is only a small part of the meetings). So for about 15 minutes every 2 months the issue of child protection is discussed.

    In my honest opinion, if this is how the church treats the issue of child protection is every parish in the country, I think it is an absolute disgrace. To put the issue more sensitively, I would say that the ruling class of the catholic church are an absolute disgrace.


  • Options
    #215
    dunleakelleher
    Registered Users Posts: 208 ✭✭dunleakelleher


    Min wrote: »
    It is like walking away from a problem than actually dealing with it.

    I like your play on words.
    That's why the RCC is in the s#it in the first place. Not only ignoring the problem but facilitating paedophiles to find new victim in new diocese when they were caught.


  • Options
    #216
    Hagar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,793 ✭✭✭✭Hagar


    Kyng Green Duster wrote: »
    Would you go to a mosque to protest against some of their wrong doings?
    Have you any evidence of child abuse by Muslim Clerics? Do you think they would tolerate it? How do you think they would punish it?


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #217
    LookingFor
    Registered Users Posts: 2,682 ✭✭✭LookingFor


    Reading the document linked to earlier...is this the oath administered to those kids with Brady? Or a different one?

    i.e. is it the one talking about excommunication, and binding them to secrecy even in the light of a greater good etc?

    I have to say, that document is, at first glance, very shocking.


  • Options
    #218
    m5ex9oqjawdg2i
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,221 ✭✭✭✭m5ex9oqjawdg2i


    69 wrote: »
    Have you any evidence of child abuse by Muslim Clerics? Do you think they would tolerate it? How do you think they would punish it?

    The fcuk are you talking about?


  • Options
    #219
    fontanalis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,619 ✭✭✭fontanalis


    As much as the Roman Catholic Church needs the shyte scrutinized out of it Irish society at the time (some of the very people probably complaining to Joe Duffy and the like about every petty thing) needs the same.


  • Options
    #220
    Min
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,550 ✭✭✭Min


    cornbb wrote: »
    It's called voting with your feet. What else would you do about it? You are supporting them simply by showing up to mass and saying nothing. Are you just continuing to show your support for an organisation that clearly has no agenda except to protect and propagate itself? Show me some evidence that the church has plans to do anything but that. Maybe your local priest is a good man, but his first obligations are to a hierarchy that should be disgraced.

    What I'm hearing from the "faithful" is "it's a terrible shame that all of that stuff happened, let's be sorry it happened and move on". It's shameful that the church is still merely trying to protect itself and that massgoers are burying their heads in the sand and/or closing ranks instead of denouncing the church, or at the very least demanding reform. I have no problems with religious/spiritual people, I have problems with people who feel obliged to defend and support the Catholic church in light of the very evil things they have been doing for centuries.

    No one is saying to move on and forget about it.

    Yes, terrible evil has been committed, reading your rant it doesn't acknowledge the good done by Catholics and it is the Catholics that are the Catholic church.
    One would think that the church only takes part in evil which is very much wrong.


  • Options
    #221
    Min
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,550 ✭✭✭Min


    Michaelrsh wrote: »
    OK, I accept everything else you're saying and I don't want to interfere with your beliefs or anything like that. Just in relation to the new child protection policy the church has laid down.

    I know an individual (I'm not going to specify my relation to this individual but I will say they are very close) who is a very strong believer in the catholic faith. That individual was appointed child protection officer for a certain parish in the east of the country. (I will say that the general population within the parish is fairly large). This individual had many affiliations with that parish for nearly a decade, for reasons I will not specify. However, that individual, the new child protection officer for the parish, lives on the order of 20 km from the parish and only visits there once a week for an hour to go to mass. Meetings are held once every two months for 2 hours for the parish pastoral council. (Might I highlight the issue of child protection is only a small part of the meetings). So for about 15 minutes every 2 months the issue of child protection is discussed.

    In my honest opinion, if this is how the church treats the issue of child protection is every parish in the country, I think it is an absolute disgrace. To put the issue more sensitively, I would say that the ruling class of the catholic church are an absolute disgrace.

    I see two women with the altar servers everytime I go to church, one does work in the church for the mass, the other is another woman whom I don't know.

    It is a reminder every Sunday of the abuse that some people were subjected to.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #222
    cornbb
    Registered Users Posts: 6,790 ✭✭✭cornbb


    Min wrote: »
    No one is saying to move on and forget about it.
    that is all that the church are saying, if you read between the lines.
    Yes, terrible evil has been committed, reading your rant it doesn't acknowledge the good done by Catholics and it is the Catholics that are the Catholic church.
    One would think that the church only takes part in evil which is very much wrong.

    I'll acknowledge that Catholics have done some good, but only as a by-product of the churches main agenda. That agenda, as I have said, is self preservation and expansion. It has run schools so it can indoctrinate children. It has sent missionaries abroad to swell it's own ranks. If you believe that the church has YOUR best interests at heart, I believe you are sorely mistaken.

    I find it sad that you insist on defending them. Do your allegiences lie with Christian morals and principles, or with the catholic church? Doesn't it disturb you that they are preaching one thing while doing another?


  • Options
    #223
    Hagar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,793 ✭✭✭✭Hagar


    Kyng Green Duster wrote: »
    The fcuk are you talking about?
    Good response.

    Now, have you heard of child abuse being commited and covered up by any other Church? The Muslim Church in particular? If not, your original challenge for me to protest at a mosque is only more RCC mis-direction.


  • Options
    #224
    1in4
    Registered Users Posts: 29 ✭1in4


    I ACCEPT THAT THE PASTORAL OFFERS AN APOLOGY. IT ALSO OFFERS A PART SOLUTION FOR EACH OF US TO USE OUR FRIDAY RELIGIOUS OBSERVANCES IN SUCH A WAY THAT COULD CONTRIBUTE TO GOODNESS RATHER THAN JUST ADD TO THE NEGATIVE DARKNESS THAT IS PART OF OUR WORLD. JUST LOOKING AT SOME OF THE FOUL LANGUAGE CONTAINED IN SOME OF THESE THREAD RESPONSES IS AN INDICATION OF THE DARKNESS THAN CAN EXIST IN THE MINDS OF US ALL. LET THIS PASTORAL HAVE THE TIME IT DESERVES AND THE REFLECTION IT DESERVES. GIVE IT A CHANCE. DO NOT BE LIKE THE CRITICS WHO HAD THEIR NEGATIVE PRESS STATEMENTS READY WITHIN THE HOUR OF THE PASTORAL BEING RELEASED. THAT KIND OF SUPERFICIALITY WILL NOT HELP THE CAUSE OF ABUSE SURVIVORS ONE IOTA. THIS IS MY HEARTFELT OPINION ON WHAT IS A VERY BAD SITUATION FOR HUMANITY IN THIS COUNTRY. :)


  • Options
    #225
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    I ACCEPT THAT THE PASTORAL OFFERS AN APOLOGY. IT ALSO OFFERS A PART SOLUTION FOR EACH OF US TO USE OUR FRIDAY RELIGIOUS OBSERVANCES IN SUCH A WAY THAT COULD CONTRIBUTE TO GOODNESS RATHER THAN JUST ADD TO THE NEGATIVE DARKNESS THAT IS PART OF OUR WORLD. JUST LOOKING AT SOME OF THE FOUL LANGUAGE CONTAINED IN SOME OF THESE THREAD RESPONSES IS AN INDICATION OF THE DARKNESS THAN CAN EXIST IN THE MINDS OF US ALL. LET THIS PASTORAL HAVE THE TIME IT DESERVES AND THE REFLECTION IT DESERVES. GIVE IT A CHANCE. DO NOT BE LIKE THE CRITICS WHO HAD THEIR NEGATIVE PRESS STATEMENTS READY WITHIN THE HOUR OF THE PASTORAL BEING RELEASED. THAT KIND OF SUPERFICIALITY WILL NOT HELP THE CAUSE OF ABUSE SURVIVORS ONE IOTA. THIS IS MY HEARTFELT OPINION ON WHAT IS A VERY BAD SITUATION FOR HUMANITY IN THIS COUNTRY.

    Jeasus, 1in4 - hell of a signature you got there!
    Talk about ramming it down our throats!


  • Options
    #226
    m5ex9oqjawdg2i
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,221 ✭✭✭✭m5ex9oqjawdg2i


    69 wrote: »
    Good response.

    Now, have you heard of child abuse being commited and covered up by any other Church? The Muslim Church in particular? If not, your original challenge for me to protest at a mosque is only more RCC mis-direction.

    What the fcuk are you reading? Where did I say anything about the muslim church molesting defenseless little boys? I didn't. I simply asked:

    "Would you go to a mosque to protest against some of their wrong doings?"

    It's a pretty simple question, read it. It's in black and white.


  • Options
    #227
    1in4
    Registered Users Posts: 29 ✭1in4


    Thanks for the support!


  • Options
    #228
    Hagar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,793 ✭✭✭✭Hagar


    Kyng Green Duster wrote: »
    What the fcuk are you reading? Where did I say anything about the muslim church molesting defenseless little boys? I didn't. I simply asked:

    "Would you go to a mosque to protest against some of their wrong doings?"

    It's a pretty simple question, read it. It's in black and white.
    Why would I go there if they are not doing it? That is more to the point.

    /Edit/ I get it now you mean wrong doings by Muslims as opposed to their clerics, that has nothing to do with this topic. That is a red herring.


  • Options
    #229
    m5ex9oqjawdg2i
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,221 ✭✭✭✭m5ex9oqjawdg2i


    69 wrote: »
    Why would I go there if they are not doing it? That is more to the point.

    /Edit/ I get it now you mean wrong doings by Muslims as opposed to their clerics, that has nothing to do with this topic. That is a red herring.

    Now what the hell are you talking about?

    Look, it's sooo simple...

    Would you, go to a mosque, to protest against the wrong doings of their priest equivilant? Whatever that wrong doing may be? Would you? If they molested boys, would you go to their mosque to protest?


    *EDIT*

    Forget it... ;)


  • Options
    #230
    MackDeToaster
    Registered Users Posts: 330 ✭✭MackDeToaster


    Colm O'Gormans response, seems he's not very impressed either...

    http://colmogorman.com/?p=672

    Pretty much as I thought myself...

    "It was a simple enough an exercise. Acknowledge the fact of the cover up by the Church, take responsibility for it, and show how you will ensure it never happens again.

    But the Pope failed to do any of these things.

    If you think I am being too judgemental, then consider the following.

    At the end of the eight pages of fine words which fail to address the real issue at all we read what the Pope thinks are the steps to be taken to put things right.

    Catholics should pray, fast and do penance for a year in an effort to bring about the rebirth of the church in Ireland.

    And the Vatican will organise an Apostolic Visitation, a visit by its enforcers to some dioceses to ensure they are enforcing church law in dealing with child abuse.

    The same church law that has been previously used by bishops and church defenders to explain their cover up of abuse.
    You couldn’t make it up could you? "


  • Options
    #231
    Min
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,550 ✭✭✭Min


    Colm O'Gorman doesn't know what he is talking about, he was too angry on Sky news and believed a letter to Catholics in Ireland didn't deal with the problem worldwide......d'oh it was for Catholics in Ireland.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #232
    MackDeToaster
    Registered Users Posts: 330 ✭✭MackDeToaster


    Months writing that eh, did he write it by throwing pasta and sauerkraut against the wall and see what came out ?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSHaCzb3yYk


  • Options
    #233
    j1smithy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 605 ✭✭✭j1smithy


    The thing thats most unsurprising about the letter is the typical AH bullshit response to it. There are so many militant athiests on this forum that unless the letter said the church was going to be disbanded and its assets taken from them, they wouldn't be happy, and yet even if he said that, there would still be some saying it didn't go far enough.

    AH... the Irish home of extremism.


  • Options
    #234
    DublinWriter
    Registered Users Posts: 9,555 ✭✭✭DublinWriter


    j1smithy wrote: »
    The thing thats most unsurprising about the letter is the typical AH bullshit response to it. There are so many militant athiests on this forum that unless the letter said the church was going to be disbanded and its assets taken from them, they wouldn't be happy,
    I dunno...perhaps a simple "I'm sorry" would have worked?


  • Options
    #235
    j1smithy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 605 ✭✭✭j1smithy


    DublinWriter wrote: »
    I dunno...perhaps a simple "I'm sorry" would have worked?

    Did you read it? It did say sorry.


  • Options
    #236
    Mrmoe
    Registered Users Posts: 2,212 ✭✭✭Mrmoe


    j1smithy wrote: »
    Did you read it? It did say sorry.

    More like sorry we got caught.


  • Options
    #237
    DublinWriter
    Registered Users Posts: 9,555 ✭✭✭DublinWriter


    j1smithy wrote: »
    Did you read it? It did say sorry.
    Where?


  • Options
    #238
    j1smithy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 605 ✭✭✭j1smithy


    Mrmoe wrote: »
    More like sorry we got caught.
    Pope Benedict XVI wrote:
    6. To the victims of abuse and their families
    You have suffered grievously and I am truly sorry. I know that
    nothing can undo the wrong you have endured. Your trust has been
    betrayed and your dignity has been violated. Many of you found that, when
    you were courageous enough to speak of what happened to you, no one
    would listen. Those of you who were abused in residential institutions must
    have felt that there was no escape from your sufferings. It is
    understandable that you find it hard to forgive or be reconciled with the
    Church. In her name, I openly express the shame and remorse that we all
    feel.

    He apologises personally, and on behaf of the Church as an organisation for what happened.


  • Options
    #239
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Even the New York Times comes out and states whats missing from the letter!

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/21/world/europe/21pope.html


  • Options
    #240
    fontanalis
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,619 ✭✭✭fontanalis


    j1smithy wrote: »
    The thing thats most unsurprising about the letter is the typical AH bullshit response to it. There are so many militant athiests on this forum that unless the letter said the church was going to be disbanded and its assets taken from them, they wouldn't be happy, and yet even if he said that, there would still be some saying it didn't go far enough.

    AH... the Irish home of extremism.


    http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt112/ausador/IronyMeterSplode.jpg


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #241
    Michaelrsh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 640 ✭✭✭Michaelrsh


    Personally, I think the least the Pope could do is to excommunicate the priests who abused children. Also, admit that the Vatican (and not just the Irish Church authorities) withheld certain information from the commission that investigated the abuse.

    Oh yeah, maybe the Pope should resign himself if it is proven that he tried to cover up abuses that happened in the German church fadó fadó when he was Archbishop of Munich and Freising.


Advertisement