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Pope's Pastoral Letter

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24567…12

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    #32
    landsleaving
    Registered Users Posts: 4,345 ✭✭✭landsleaving


    Oremus wrote: »
    Yeah, look through the indymedia.ie site to get a good grasp the communist mentality.

    Are you, in fact, the ghost of Joseph McCarthy?


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    #33
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    Is Oremus Outrage'd?


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    #34
    Oremus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24 ✭Oremus


    Dudess wrote: »
    Whatever sins I've committed (and I'm sure there are plenty) none of them come close to systematic child abuse and cover-ups.

    What about the society you subscribe to?


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    #35
    starbelgrade
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,739 ✭✭✭✭starbelgrade


    Oremus wrote: »
    Yeah, look through the indymedia.ie site to get a good grasp the communist mentality.

    And you could look at Pope Ratzinger's past to get a grasp of his fascist mentality.


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    #36
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    Oremus wrote: »
    Yeah, look through the indymedia.ie site to get a good grasp the communist mentality.
    Ok, you don't really know what it means - fair enough.
    Oremus wrote: »
    What about the society you subscribe to?
    What about it? Actually, what IS this society I subscribe to?


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    #37
    Millicent
    Registered Users Posts: 4,559 ✭✭✭Millicent


    Oremus wrote: »
    The altar and its ornaments are specified by the rubrics. I'm afraid communist paraphinalia is not listed.

    http://www.catholicliturgy.com/index.cfm/FuseAction/Law/Index/6

    Can you please provide an exact link to where it says that objects like baby shoes cannot be placed at the foot of the altar? Because from my memory of serving as an altar girl and from performing in a choir (two different churches) it was not altogether uncommon for things to be placed at the foot of the altar- photos and favourite objects of the deceased at a funeral for example.


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    #38
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    landsleaving wrote: »
    Have you ever heard the expression 'Judge not, lest ye be judged.'?
    Shhhh!

    That's more of a protestant thing...


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    #39
    RayM
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,973 ✭✭✭RayM


    Oremus wrote: »
    I see the crusty communists over on indymedia.ie are planning to defile the altar of Christ at churches all over the country on the most important day of the Catholic calendar: Easter Sunday, April 4th. How brave.

    Oh well, better to defile an altar than a child. Seriously, it speaks volumes that you appear more outraged about the criticism being (deservedly) aimed at the catholic church and its leader, than the crimes it spent years covering up. Get a bit of fúcking perspective.


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    #40
    starbelgrade
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,739 ✭✭✭✭starbelgrade


    Dudess wrote: »
    Shhhh!

    That's more of a protestant thing...

    Bloody protestants. They're nearly as bad as the communists. Tut.


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    #41
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    dvpower wrote: »
    Is Oremus Outrage'd?
    Outrage wrote: »
    Yawn. I suggest you read the writings of a rational man: http://www.mcguirk.eu/?p=863
    Oremus wrote: »
    Yawn.
    Read this: http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/damianthompson/100030155/lord-rees-mogg-are-you-proud-of-the-way-the-times-is-vilifying-the-leader-of-your-church/

    I smell a rat. Oremus, are you the poster previously known as Outrage?
    (Remember, when you lie, baby Jesus cries)


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    #42
    Oremus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24 ✭Oremus


    Millicent wrote: »
    Can you please provide an exact link to where it says that objects like baby shoes cannot be placed at the foot of the altar? Because from my memory of serving as an altar girl and from performing in a choir (two different churches) it was not altogether uncommon for things to be placed at the foot of the altar- photos and favourite objects of the deceased at a funeral for example.

    With the permission of the priest only: the priest has the responsibility to conform to the liturgical conventions, not an external group with dubious political agendas. The altar is in control of those who have spent at least 7 years in a Catholic seminary - not some random punter who walks off the street. Political statements on altars will be agressively removed.


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    #43
    Oremus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24 ✭Oremus


    RayM wrote: »
    Oh well, better to defile an altar than a child. Seriously, it speaks volumes that you appear more outraged about the criticism being (deservedly) aimed at the catholic church and its leader, than the crimes it spent years covering up. Get a bit of fúcking perspective.

    If I saw a child being defiled, I'd find it hard not to smash heads into the ground. If I see an altar being defiled over the coming weeks, I will prevent it; using proportional physical force when necessary. I'm sure my comrades over on indymedia will understand the sensitivity of this matter.


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    #44
    Blackhorse Slim
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 1,269 Mod ✭✭✭✭Blackhorse Slim


    Oremus wrote: »
    the priest has the responsibility to conform to the liturgical conventions
    But not, it seems, the responsibility to protect children or abide by the laws of the state.


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    #45
    goat2
    Registered Users Posts: 4,939 ✭✭✭goat2


    Biggins wrote: »
    Unless it says:

    1. Priests can get married
    2. They WITHOUT QUESTION, will report all possible sex crimes to the state authorities
    3. Admit they did hide the truth from the public for decades.

    I expect more of the same Rome spin and bluster and inevitable useless ramblings.
    add to that
    that they will pay substantial damages to every victim


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    #46
    landsleaving
    Registered Users Posts: 4,345 ✭✭✭landsleaving


    Oremus, as a Catholic (I hope I'm not being too presumptuous here) why are you not simply outraged at what's gone on, ostensibly in your name? It's not as if God lacked some wrath, he told his own son to die for his sins, and he seemed like an alright bloke from what I've heard, so why do you want to defend the Church when it, as an institution, has committed cardinal sins? Surely Catholics should be the first to criticize and call for action on that basis.


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    #47
    starbelgrade
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,739 ✭✭✭✭starbelgrade


    Oremus wrote: »
    Political statements on altars will be agressively removed.

    Pity they didn't do the same with all the paedos.


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    #48
    Agonist
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,329 ✭✭✭Agonist


    Oremus wrote: »
    With the permission of the priest: the priest has the responsibility to conform to the liturgical conventions, not an external group with dubious political agendas. The altar is in control of those who have spent at least 7 years in a Catholic seminary - not some random punter who walks off the street. Political statements on altars will be agressively removed.

    We already knew that, particularly with regard to the liturgical convention of covering up child abuse regardless of the dubious political agenda of the Irish State and its laws.


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    #49
    partyatmygaff
    Registered Users Posts: 10,992 ✭✭✭✭partyatmygaff


    Oremus wrote: »
    If I saw a child being defiled, I'd find it hard not to smash heads into the ground. If I see an altar being defiled over the coming weeks, I will prevent it; using proportional physical force when necessary. I'm sure my comrades over on indymedia will understand the sensitivity of this matter.
    You sure you aren't a communist? :p


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    #50
    Millicent
    Registered Users Posts: 4,559 ✭✭✭Millicent


    Oremus wrote: »
    With the permission of the priest: the priest has the responsibility to conform to the liturgical conventions, not an external group with dubious political agendas. The altar is in control of those who have spent at least 7 years in a Catholic seminary - not some random punter who walks off the street. Political statements on altars will be agressively removed.

    Punter?! It's a church, not a nightclub.

    So why wouldn't the priest give his permission? The priest is there to serve God and the community and if the community wishes to remember a generation of children who were sinned against, why shouldn't it be allowed. From what I can tell, it's intended to be a silent and peaceful protest, not disrespectful in any way. Why should these items be "agressively [sic] removed"?


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    #51
    Oremus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24 ✭Oremus


    Agonist wrote: »
    We already knew that, particularly with regard to the liturgical convention of covering up child abuse regardless of the dubious political agenda of the Irish State and its laws.

    Do you even know the meaning of the word liturgy?


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    #52
    RayM
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,973 ✭✭✭RayM


    Oremus wrote: »
    If I saw a child being defiled, I'd find it hard not to smash heads into the ground.

    A bit extreme, no? I'm sure there's better ways of keeping them quiet. Ask cardinal Brady.


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    #53
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    landsleaving wrote: »
    Oremus, as a Catholic (I hope I'm not being too presumptuous here) why are you not simply outraged at what's gone on, ostensibly in your name? It's not as if God lacked some wrath, he told his own son to die for his sins, and he seemed like an alright bloke from what I've heard, so why do you want to defend the Church when it, as an institution, has committed cardinal sins? Surely Catholics should be the first to criticize and call for action on that basis.
    Yeah, wouldn't it be the christian thing to do?

    What would Jesus think (not joking around here btw)? I imagine he'd be pretty fucking outraged.

    The irony of right-wing catholics/christians in general and their idol being a total hippy... :pac:


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    #54
    Oremus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24 ✭Oremus


    Millicent wrote: »
    Punter?! It's a church, not a nightclub.

    So why wouldn't the priest give his permission? The priest is there to serve God and the community and if the community wishes to remember a generation of children who were sinned against, why shouldn't it be allowed. From what I can tell, it's intended to be a silent and peaceful protest, not disrespectful in any way. Why should these items be "agressively [sic] removed"?

    The priest has very little sway. The Mass is specified by Rome and any variations are approved by the Bishop. The "community" didn't spend 7 years in a seminary. If the "community" want to make up their own mass, they should join the club of failed breakaway sects.


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    #55
    dvpower
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,183 ✭✭✭dvpower


    Oremus wrote: »
    If I saw a child being defiled, I'd find it hard not to smash heads into the ground.
    To keep them from talking?


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    #56
    Oremus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24 ✭Oremus


    RayM wrote: »
    A bit extreme, no? I'm sure there's better ways of keeping them quiet. Ask cardinal Brady.

    The innuendo being that Cardinal Brady has witnessed first-hand men with their hands down boys and girls underwear.


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    #57
    Millicent
    Registered Users Posts: 4,559 ✭✭✭Millicent


    Dudess wrote: »
    Yeah, wouldn't it be the christian thing to do?

    What would Jesus think (not joking around here btw)? I imagine he'd be pretty fucking outraged.

    The irony of right-wing catholics/christians in general and their idol being a total hippy... :pac:

    "Suffer the little children who come on to me" and all that. (And for the record, while that quotation is unfortunately phrased, I am sincerely agreeing with Dudess, not taking a pot shot at Catholicism or paedophilia.)


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    #58
    starbelgrade
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,739 ✭✭✭✭starbelgrade


    Dudess wrote: »
    The irony of right-wing catholics/christians in general and their idol being a total hippy... :pac:

    It all started off so well - cool dude with long hair, beard & sandals, goes round talking about "love, man", handing out fish & loaves, walking across water, inventing the internet & all the other cool things he did.

    Then he gets killed & goes all ego-maniac about it by coming back from the dead & preaching & sh*t. From then on, people were expected to repent & feel sorry coz some dude's son had died "for their sins". It all went downhill from there.


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    #59
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    Millicent wrote: »
    "Suffer the little children who come on to me"
    Delightfully... Freudian? :D

    Sorry... :o


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    #60
    Millicent
    Registered Users Posts: 4,559 ✭✭✭Millicent


    Oremus wrote: »
    The priest has very little sway. The Mass is specified by Rome and any variations are approved by the Bishop. The "community" didn't spend 7 years in a seminary. If the "community" want to make up their own mass, they should join the club of failed breakaway sects.

    But you previously said it was at the priest's discretion. How in the space of a few posts has it moved into the hands of the Bishop and Rome?


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    #61
    partyatmygaff
    Registered Users Posts: 10,992 ✭✭✭✭partyatmygaff


    Oremus wrote: »
    The priest has very little sway. The Mass is specified by Rome and any variations are approved by the Bishop. The "community" didn't spend 7 years in a seminary. If the "community" want to make up their own mass, they should join the club of failed breakaway sects.
    Such as?


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