Pope's Pastoral Letter

starbelgrade

Millicent wrote: »

"Suffer the little children who come on to me"

The problem is that some priests took that quote a litlle too literally?

Oremus

starbelgrade wrote: »

It all started off so well - cool dude with long hair, beard & sandals, goes round talking about "love, man", handing out fish & loaves, walking across water, inventing the internet & all the other cool things he did.

Then he gets killed & goes all ego-maniac about it by coming back from the dead & preaching & sh*t. From then on, people were expected to repent & feel sorry coz some dude's son had died "for their sins". It all went downhill from there.

You probably went to one of those so-called Catholic schools during the 80s/90s and were taught by a priest who looks back fondly on the Second Vatican Council as the "best days of his life". I understand where you're coming from: it's really not your fault.

starbelgrade

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Such as?

Scientology.

Millicent

Dudess wrote: »

Delightfully... Freudian?

Sorry...

Bah, it should have read "to" not "who". My defence is that I'm getting auld and it's way past my bedtime! :P

Oh ,also "unto", not "onto".

Oremus

goat2 wrote: »

this letter, they can wipe their rear ends with it, too little, too late

Unfortunately, some people will always have hearts of stone. This is an acute problem because the vicious circle of hate festers when you are not open to the prospect of forgiveness.

partyatmygaff

starbelgrade wrote: »

Scientology.

Scientology is a breakaway sect of Catholicism? What?

bleg

Oremus wrote: »

Unfortunately, some people will always have hearts of stone. This is an acute problem because the vicious circle of hate festers when you are not open to the prospect of forgiveness.

They don't want to be forgiven. The church sees this as an inconvenience, not as a major chance for repentance.

Agonist

Oremus wrote:

The priest has very little sway. The Mass is specified by Rome and any variations are approved by the Bishop. The "community" didn't spend 7 years in a seminary. If the "community" want to make up their own mass, they should join the club of failed breakaway sects.

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Such as?

Maybe Oremus is thinking of Protestants here. They've certainly failed to avail themselves of the nubile bodies of their youngfolk to the extraordinary degree that the Catholic clergy seem to have.

starbelgrade

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Scientology is a breakaway sect of Catholicism? What?

That's what Wikipedia says.

Dudess

Oremus wrote: »

Unfortunately, some people will always have hearts of stone.

Like people who gloss over child abuse?

This is an acute problem because the vicious circle of hate festers when you are not open to the prospect of forgiveness.

Come back to me about how seemingly easy it is to forgive, after you've endured several years of being raped by a priest...

RayM

Oremus wrote: »

The innuendo being that Cardinal Brady has witnessed first-hand men with their hands down boys and girls underwear.

No, the innuendo (if that's what you want to call it) being that the leader of the catholic church in this country was complicit in silencing victims of sexual abuse. Don't worry about any of that though. It's no big deal. Keep whining about Communists and the liberal media. Priorities...

Millicent

Oremus wrote: »

You probably went to one of those so-called Catholic schools during the 80s/90s and were taught by a priest who looks back fondly on the Second Vatican Council as the "best days of his life". I understand where you're coming from: it's really not your fault.

How Christian are you exactly? I was devout in my youth (and I mean absolutely devout) and I would never dream of patronising people in the manner you have nor using the teachings of the bible (and not the Church) to cloak my right-wing bile and judgement.

"Judge not lest ye be judged".

"Love thy neighbour".

"So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God. Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another".

Any of these ringing a bell?

mikom

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Scientology is a breakaway sect of Catholicism? What?

Both sects offenders.

Oremus

Millicent wrote: »

But you previously said it was at the priest's discretion. How in the space of a few posts has it moved into the hands of the Bishop and Rome?

Did you bother to look at the link I gave you? I am not a priest. I don't know the full ins-and-outs. However I can tell you for sure that political symbols that are left by non-Catholics (with a track record of being anti-Church) will not be looked favourably upon.

Things like photos and the choice of music etc. are at the discretion of the priest. They are not specified. However, the Pope has raised the issue of appropriate music in Churches recently. There are minimum standards laid down for the Novus Ordo - more often than not, priests go out of their way to minimise things right down to the bare essentials, but thankfully we're moving away from this 1970s mentality as it has been shown up to have been an abject failure. The Tridentine tradition is a totally different kettle of fish: you will not find any new-age liturgical innovations there.

bleg

Oremus wrote: »

Things like photos and the choice of music etc. are at the discretion of the priest. They are not specified. However, the Pope has raised the issue of appropriate music in Churches recently. There are minimum standards laid down for the Novus Ordo - more often than not, priests go out of their way to minimise things right down to the bare essentials, but thankfully we're moving away from this 1970s mentality as it has been shown up to have been an abject failure. The Tridentine tradition is a totally different kettle of fish: you will not find any new-age liturgical innovations there.

And boy, if you're going to put shoes up there you better make sure you buy them from habit hat.

partyatmygaff

starbelgrade wrote: »

That's what Wikipedia says.

If you'd like I could edit starbelgrade in as the "Grand Master of Scientology" in less than 10 seconds

starbelgrade

Oremus wrote: »

You probably went to one of those so-called Catholic schools during the 80s/90s and were taught by a priest who looks back fondly on the Second Vatican Council as the "best days of his life". I understand where you're coming from: it's really not your fault.

I thought Catholics weren't supposed to go round judging people & sh*t?

wasper

Oremus wrote: »

In other words: I'm not open to the idea of the Catholic Church trying their best to heal deep wounds. If you want to live out your days being a bitter man, that's your perogative.

Your so called kind humane Catholic church is not but a bloated commercial firm that has lost direction & sells outdated & irrelevant products. It's running on empty. In fact lets call is Enron Corporation.

mikom

Oremus wrote: »

Things like photos and the choice of music etc. are at the discretion of the priest.

Hmmm.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P01i-qHv-zI

smurgen

Oremus wrote: »

Unfortunately, some people will always have hearts of stone. This is an acute problem because the vicious circle of hate festers when you are not open to the prospect of forgiveness.

or maby some people are pretty disillusioned with how disengenuous the vatican/catholic church is, making appologies worded just carefully enough to avoid any legal liability. I swear they really need to start keeping their heads down or the churches are going to be ripped down brick by brick.

starbelgrade

Millicent wrote: »

How Christian are you exactly? I was devout in my youth (and I mean absolutely devout) and I would never dream of patronising people in the manner you have nor using the teachings of the bible (and not the Church) to cloak my right-wing bile and judgement.

"Judge not lest ye be judged".

"Love thy neighbour".

"So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God. Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another".

Any of these ringing a bell?

Yeah - that made me laugh. Even more so coz I didn't even go to a Catholic school & am completely non religious, though, if people are, that's their choice & I fully respect that.

starbelgrade

partyatmygaff wrote: »

If you'd like I could edit starbelgrade in as the "Grand Master of Scientology" in less than 10 seconds

Make it "The Big Motherf*cking Daddy of Scientology" & we have a deal. (It's p*ss Tom Cruise off no end).

Oremus

RayM wrote: »

No, the innuendo (if that's what you want to call it) being that the leader of the catholic church in this country was complicit in silencing victims of sexual abuse [based on slippery implication that I've picked up on in the media over the last couple of days].

There, fixed that for you.

I can only assume that you can prove that the the actions (or lack thereof) of the then Fr Brady have an accompanying level of mens rea. In which case, you should go down to your local Garda station and make a statement.

landsleaving

Since you cleverly avoided answering my last question Oremus, let me ask some more so you can avoid them too.

Do you think it's wrong to sexually abuse a child?

Do you think it's wrong to keep this fact from anyone who might help the child?

Do you think the people who do either of those things, regardless of religion or status, should be punished for their crimes? (Rather than say, having their leader read a letter)

Just before you don't answer, pretend it's not the Catholic Church, that it's actually the government of some tiny island nation somewhere, what do you think then?

starbelgrade

Oremus wrote: »

There, fixed that for you.

I can only assume that you can prove that the the actions (or lack thereof) of the then Fr Brady have an accompanying level of mens rea. In which case, you should go down to your local Garda station and make a statement.

Is Mens Rea related to Chris Rea?

Oremus

starbelgrade wrote: »

I thought Catholics weren't supposed to go round judging people & sh*t?

Unfortunately I went to such a school. Thankfully, I've got educated friends.

Dudess

Oremus wrote: »

There, fixed that for you.

I can only assume that you can prove that the the actions (or lack thereof) of the then Fr Brady have an accompanying level of mens rea. In which case, you should go down to your local Garda station and make a statement.

A la carte catholic

A la carte quote selector

Dudess

Oremus wrote: »

Unfortunately I went to such a school. Thankfully, I've got educated friends.

No, christians AREN'T supposed to judge people - proud of being a hypocrite?

starbelgrade

Oremus wrote: »

Unfortunately I went to such a school. Thankfully, I've got educated friends.

Well, at least your friends are educated.

Millicent

Oremus wrote: »

Unfortunately I went to such a school. Thankfully, I've got educated friends.

Educated friends who tell you you can judge people?!