DTT Commercial Multiplexes (was OneVision, Boxer etc...)

The Cush · 03-03-2010 09:06AM

Sam Russell wrote: »

@Elmo: If RTE were running it, they would charge the going rate to TV3, TG4. The Irish Film channel and Oireachtas Channel would also be charged the going rate. Any other channel would also be charged, but they are not 'must carry' and could be required to pay a premium. Do they have the muscle to get good deals from other channels, without destroying their own commercial basis?

slegs wrote: »

I agree that BBC and C4 may need special status but I am pretty sure there are other semi decent channels that may be interested in being carried pending any rights issues they may have with programming. A nominal carriage cost could get them onto Saorview easily.

The proposed RTÉNL tariff (early 2008) for the PSB Mux will depend on the number of transmitter sites. They proposed the following: 13 sites - €4m, 44 sites - €4.5m, 188 sites - €5.8m.

Elmo wrote: »

AFAIK TV3 and TG4 are only paying 1.5million PA to RTÉ NL for carriage. But than as pointed out we are paying for RTÉ NL to an extend and we do own that company so the BAI and RTÉ should be fully in control of that service. One Vision removes most content regulations placed upon the network.

Annual Charges from May 2009 for TV3 & TG4 are
Transmission: TV3 - €1,628,088, TG4 - €2,962,080
Distribution: TV3 - €282,864, TG4 - €282,864

slegs · 03-03-2010 09:28AM

So finally we have a date cast in stone. The Saorview service has to be live on or before October 31st. This should focus the minds.

galtee boy · 03-03-2010 10:35AM

slegs wrote: »

So finally we have a date cast in stone. The Saorview service has to be live on or before October 31st. This should focus the minds.

Agreed Slegs, we've finally got a launch date ( at least for the public service mux ) and now us enthusiasts, the general public, set top box manufacturers, those in the trade etc, have got something to work and aim for.

On the other hand, the way Minister Ryan backed down over the BBC being fta on DTT in the South, makes me nervous about any announcements he makes. But I suppose, there should be no reason to change Oct 31 as the launch date, seeing as possibly 90% of the population is already covered by the transmitters that are already in test mode around the country.

Roll on Sunday October 31st 2010 ! although he did day BY October 31st, so we may well have a launch long before then.

BoredNaMoaner · 03-03-2010 10:40AM

A launch schedule at last? Still, it still seems more inspirational than decisive.
One would wonder where RTENL will get the funding for this great enterprise.
Could they perhaps cannibalize resources destined for the pay MUXes to expand the network? Wasn't the argument all along that they wanted to roll out the network with a commercial partner to share the costs? Will there be a raise in the TV license to fund this new network now it is left to RTNL alone? I wonder has Eamon Ryan already promised the spectrum to vested interests post 2012, so its lights out 2012 whether or not the network is properly rolled out. It is a pity there isn't a bit more transparency about Plan B.

John mac · 03-03-2010 11:15AM

So its just the existing transmitters,

any update of the rest of them ? (Castlebar in Particular)

03-03-2010 11:42AM

Minister Ryan wrote:

I agree that the preferred outcome is one where we combine a free-to-air service with a commercial platform which helps cover RTE’s transmission costs. This was set out in the legislation. I do not have complete control of that process but I believe it must be decided within a maximum of three or four weeks because we are running into timelines where it starts to be difficult to meet the overall objective.

Wtf ???

The four channels on one mux with radio is surely cheaper to run than 4 analogue transmissions on their own...I wish people elected and people in ministries would at least pretend to have a grasp of what they are talking about.
Why in that case would RTE need commercial operators to subsidize them [other than tv3 paying its share)
To satisfy areas outside of UK overspill,the best plan I think is the one where BBC1,2 and ch4 are on the RTE mux.
Cheap and cheerfull and TV3 will deliver the itv stuff.
(They can pay the royalties to UTV if UTV are upset at the RTE carriage in the North)

The Cush · 03-03-2010 11:43AM

BoredNaMoaner wrote: »

A launch schedule at last? Still, it still seems more inspirational than decisive.

The regulation makes it pretty decisive.

BoredNaMoaner wrote: »

I wonder has Eamon Ryan already promised the spectrum to vested interests post 2012, so its lights out 2012 whether or not the network is properly rolled out. It is a pity there isn't a bit more transparency about Plan B.

The released spectrum will be auctioned off and should be available 2014/15 region similar to the situation in the UK. At the moment DTT is being rolled out to the 2006 plan and replanning of the DTT frequencies are underway in co-ordination with the UK. This will mean a retune (and possibly an aerial upgrade) will be required in some areas once the new plan is agreed and rolled out.

mrdtv2010 · 03-03-2010 11:59AM

The Cush wrote: »

The regulation makes it pretty decisive.

The released spectrum will be auctioned off and should be available 2014/15 region similar to the situation in the UK. At the moment DTT is being rolled out to the 2006 plan and replanning of the DTT frequencies are underway in co-ordination with the UK. This will mean a retune (and possibly an aerial upgrade) in some areas will be .required once the new plan is agreed and rolled out.

Definitely. Chs 61 and 62 are going to the 800Mhz band for auction and are being substituted by Ch 39 and 40 in the UK: Winter Hill has to change frequencies. This will also affect Three Rock and Kippure where 61 and 64 will go into the 800Mhz broadband band. The Arqiva document on the UK 600Mhz plans as part of the Ofcom document also mentioned the need to change channels at Three Rock and Kippure. This is going to be interesting as wideband aerials may be needed.

mrdtv2010 · 03-03-2010 12:13PM

Deleted User wrote: »

[/I]Wtf ???

The four channels on one mux with radio is surely cheaper to run than 4 analogue transmissions on their own...I wish people elected and people in ministries would at least pretend to have a grasp of what they are talking about.
Why in that case would RTE need commercial operators to subsidize them [other than tv3 paying its share)
To satisfy areas outside of UK overspill,the best plan I think is the one where BBC1,2 and ch4 are on the RTE mux.
Cheap and cheerfull and TV3 will deliver the itv stuff.
(They can pay the royalties to UTV if UTV are upset at the RTE carriage in the North)

It is much cheaper to run four channels on DTT than four analogue networks for another reason: ERPs are usually 7dB down on analogue so the power bills are much lower. With T1 MPEG4 they can have eight services instead of four-six and much more with T2. There will also be significant maintenance costs (inventory, spares etc) in keeping the PAL system going. They could easily carry 7 services on one MPEG4T1 mux. (More at higher quality with T2.)

There has been some interesting discussion about the situation in Northern Ireland. Apart from the issue of who pays for carriage there, the use of low power DTT muxes will lead to reception problems. Preliminary surveys of frequencies and ERP's there indicate that the Irish mux could run at a maximum of 30kW whereas Divis PSB will be 100kW in 2012. This would lead to a mismatch of coverage both in overall reach and via indoor antennas.

The central issue behind all of this is who is going cover the 100 million infrastucture investment cost which RTE made without securing a commercial contract with a pay-tv provider: a) RTE b) the pay provider who fails to party or c) the taxpayer.

slegs · 03-03-2010 12:20PM

The Cush wrote: »

The proposed RTÉNL tariff (early 2008) for the PSB Mux will depend on the number of transmitter sites. They proposed the following: 13 sites - €4m, 44 sites - €4.5m, 188 sites - €5.8m.

Annual Charges from May 2009 for TV3 & TG4 are
Transmission: TV3 - €1,628,088, TG4 - €2,962,080
Distribution: TV3 - €282,864, TG4 - €282,864

Wow, those costs seem very high to me...can't see TV3 wanting to pay 4m for DTT transmission until ASO actually happens. I would have thought under 1m would have been the mark.

EDIT:

From reading that are the costs per Mux and not per channel i.e. it woul be 4m divided between all the channels on the Mux which would bring it down to 6-700k per channel for 6-7 channels per Mux.

The Cush · 03-03-2010 12:23PM

slegs wrote: »

Wow, those costs seem very high to me...can't see TV3 wanting to pay 4m for DTT transmission until ASO actually happens. I would have thought under 1m would have been the mark.

The tariff quoted is for the complete mux and is shared by those using the mux.

03-03-2010 12:27PM

mrdtv2010 wrote: »

The central issue behind all of this is who is going cover the 100 million infrastucture investment cost which RTE made without securing a commercial contract with a pay-tv provider: a) RTE b) the pay provider who fails to party or c) the taxpayer.

Well to be fair to RTE,that money is spent,gone vamoosed.
3/4 parts of it down the swanny in my opinion but again to be fair to RTE,it was a decision taken at the height of the celtic tiger era when we were all making decisions as stupid as that on a smaller level but we didn't know it and neither did RTE.

Theres no recouping it-Gone nada lost.

Even if they got a million a year plus running costs from one vision,they'd take 70 years to get it back.

Ok 7 years if it's 10 million but lol one vision would be bust,they'd be a huge millstone around eircoms neck at a time when the money singapore pump in there would obviously be far better spent upgrading and maintaining broadband and phone infrastructure rather than trying in vain to set up a loss making tv platform for a tiny percentage of the viewing public.
A madman wouldn't do it.

Sam Russell · 03-03-2010 12:28PM

mrdtv2010 wrote: »

It is much cheaper to run four channels on DTT than four analogue networks for another reason: ERPs are usually 7dB down on analogue so the power bills are much lower. With T1 MPEG4 they can have eight services instead of four-six and much more with T2. There will also be significant maintenance costs (inventory, spares etc) in keeping the PAL system going. They could easily carry 7 services on one MPEG4T1 mux. (More at higher quality with T2.)

There has been some interesting discussion about the situation in Northern Ireland. Apart from the issue of who pays for carriage there, the use of low power DTT muxes will lead to reception problems. Preliminary surveys of frequencies and ERP's there indicate that the Irish mux could run at a maximum of 30kW whereas Divis PSB will be 100kW in 2012. This would lead to a mismatch of coverage both in overall reach and via indoor antennas.

The central issue behind all of this is who is going cover the 100 million infrastucture investment cost which RTE made without securing a commercial contract with a pay-tv provider: a) RTE b) the pay provider who fails to party or c) the taxpayer.

A dB at a transmitter is a 'golden' dB. 3dB at a transmitter is a 50% reduction in power and so 50% reduction in electricity cost and when you are talking about 100kW, that is a lot of saving. When you can broadcast 8 TV channels on one frequency, that is a further saving of 8 times. So for 8 digital TV channels, that is a reduction by a factor of 32. Huge. (Assuming you have 8 channels to broadcast. Not only that, but digital transmitters are more reliable, partly because they are new, and partly because they are digital. So the quicker we go for ASO, the more RTE will save.

RTE will pay, and then we will pay as taxpayers.

With no Onevision, they could add BBC1 and BBC2 for no extra cost, as the single mux could take it, royalties could be swapped. Carriage charges would be swapped. I think the blip about the BBC FTA was a misunderstanding. I hope so anyway.

By the way, reading the requirement for the SAORview STB, it is mandatory that it can receive HD. Interesting.

mrdtv2010 · 03-03-2010 12:37PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Well to be fair to RTE,that money is spent,gone vamoosed.
3/4 parts of it down the swanny in my opinion but again to be fair to RTE,it was a decision taken at the height of the celtic tiger era when we were all making decisions as stupid as that on a smaller level but we didn't know it and neither did RTE.

Theres no recouping it-Gone nada lost.

Even if they got a million a year plus running costs from one vision,they'd take 70 years to get it back.

Ok 7 years if it's 10 million but lol one vision would be bust,they'd be a huge millstone around eircoms neck at a time when the money singapore pump in there would obviously be far better spent upgrading and maintaining broadband and phone infrastructure rather than trying in vain to set up a loss making tv platform for a tiny percentage of the viewing public.
A madman wouldn't do it.

Exactly. Its game over for pay DTT Ireland: the economics do not add up. There are too many free alternatives (overspill, satellite) and Sky control the premium rights and all the distribution arrangements for major basic tier groups in the UK and Ireland through their equity stakes and Most Favoured Nation contracts. The way forward is some sort of free DTT system: a lesson learnt the harsh way in the UK and Spain.

mrdtv2010 · 03-03-2010 12:40PM

Sam Russell wrote: »

AdB at a transmitter is a 'golden' dB. 3dB at a transmitter is a 50% reduction in power and so 50% reduction in electricity cost and when you are talking about 100kW, that is a lot os saving. When you can broadcast 8 TV channels on one frequency, that is a saving of 8 times. So for 8 digital TV channels, that is a reduction by a factor of 32. Huge. (Assuming you have 8 channels to broadcast. Not only that, but digital transmitters are more reliable, partly because they are new, and partly because they are digital. So the quicker we go for ASO, the more RTE will save.

RTE will pay, and then we will pay as taxpayers.

With no Onevision, they could add BBC1 and BBC2 for no extra cost, as the single mux could take it, royalties could be swapped. Carriage charges would be swapped. I think the blip about the BBC FTA was a misunderstanding. I hope so anyway.

By the way, reading the requirement for the SAORview STB, it is mandatory that it can receive HD. Interesting.

An illustration suffices. Wenvoe BBC2 analogue was shut down this AM as part of DSO. BBC Mux A replaced it early this morning providing excellent coverage and very good indoor reception. ERP last night on Ch 41 PAL: 500kW. ERP today on 8k 64QAM digital 100kW. 7dB down is actually a fifth.

The Cush · 03-03-2010 12:59PM

In late Jan the Minister said

In this regard, I have established a group to advise me on planning for analogue switch-off and related matters.

The Analogue Switch-off Group includes representatives of the BAI, ComReg, RTÉ and my own Department. I expect to be presented with the group’s recommendations within the coming weeks and when I have considered them I will announce the precise dates for the availability of ‘free-to-air’ DTT and analogue switch-off.

http://debates.oireachtas.ie/DDebate.aspx?F=DAL20100126.XML&Node=1216#N1216

Now that the date for the RTÉ mux is known I assume the Analogue Switch-off Group have presented their recommendations to the Minister, did they recommend an ASO date other than "no later than quarter four of 2012"?

It would be interesting to read their recommendations but I assume it's an internal report not for publication.

EDIT: The Minister in written reply to two questions yesterday stated that the Group have not finished their work and that the report would be published.

Broadcasting Services.

66. Deputy Richard Bruton asked the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources the target date for the switch off of analogue television broadcast services. [10158/10]

89. Deputy Joan Burton asked the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources the persons who are on the group set up to advise him on analogue switch off; when the recommendations will be completed; if the recommendations will be published in the public domain; if there is a cost involved in setting up this group; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [10143/10]

Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources (Deputy Eamon Ryan): I propose to take Questions Nos. 66 and 89 together.

Part 8 of the Broadcasting Act, 2009 provides for, amongst other things, the closure of the national analogue TV network.

My stated policy objective on this is that the earliest possible switch-off of the analogue system needs to be achieved thereby releasing valuable spectrum to enable Ireland to reap the benefits of the digital dividend.

The European Commission has set 2012 as the timeline for analogue switch off throughout Europe and the EU Council of Ministers has asked Member States to, as far as possible, complete the switchover in 2012.

As previously announced my objective is that this should take place in Ireland no later than quarter 4 of 2012.

The group I have established to advise me on planning for analogue switch off and related matters is chaired by the Head of the Broadcasting Policy Division in my Department. The Group includes representatives of the Broadcasting Authority of Ireland (BAI), ComReg, RTE and my Department. Representation on the Group is a matter for the individual organisations and can vary from meeting to meeting. I expect to receive the group’s report shortly and I will publish it when I have concluded my consideration of it. There was no cost involved in setting up the group.

http://debates.oireachtas.ie/DDebate.aspx?F=DAL20100302.XML&Node=1201#N1201

Mayo Exile · 03-03-2010 04:20PM

Just wondering what % of the population is being reached right now by the various main transmitters and relays broadcasting the DTT tests and what additional masts are needed to reach 90% coverage by 31/10/10 if 90% has not already been achieved?

slegs · 03-03-2010 04:24PM

Mayo Exile wrote: »

Just wondering what % of the population is being reached right now by the various main transmitters and relays broadcasting the DTT tests and what additional masts are needed to reach 90% coverage by 31/10/10 if 90% has not already been achieved?

I had read somewhere before that the main transmitters cover about 80% of the population.

Sam Russell · 03-03-2010 05:20PM

slegs wrote: »

I had read somewhere before that the main transmitters cover about 80% of the population.

see https://us.v-cdn.net/6034073/uploads/attachments/10144/74321.pdf
I think the main transmitters cover 75% of the population. According to the schedule, the 90% coverage is due to occur in Q3 2010. Maybe 31st October 2010.:D

sesswhat · 03-03-2010 06:11PM

Sam Russell wrote: »

see [mod edit]
I think the main transmitters cover 75% of the population. According to the schedule, the 90% coverage is due to occur in Q3 2010. Maybe 31st October 2010.:D

Might want to remove that attachment - Personal data!!!!

The Cush · 03-03-2010 09:16PM

Some other questions answered in written reply in the Dáil yesterday

Digital Terrestrial Television.

71. Deputy Terence Flanagan asked the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources the position regarding the provision of commercial digital terrestrial television here and the ongoing negotiation between the Broadcasting Commission of Ireland and a consortium (details supplied); the timescale for the rollout of a free to air DTT service; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [10201/10]

102. Deputy Liz McManus asked the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources the position regarding the digital terrestrial television project here; when he expects the signing of the contract with a company (details supplied); the concerns he has if the delays in implementing DTT continue; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [10104/10]

Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources (Deputy Eamon Ryan): I propose to take Questions Nos. 71 and 102 together.

Part 8 of the Broadcasting Act 2009 provides for the development of free-to-air and commercial digital terrestrial television (DTT) in Ireland and for the closure of the national analogue TV network.

On foot of this requirement, the Broadcasting Authority of Ireland (BAI) predecessor, the Broadcasting Commission of Ireland (BCI), launched a competition, which is still ongoing. As the Deputy is aware, the highest placed consortium in the competition withdrew from the process last April. Negotiations then commenced with the next placed bidder and this process is continuing.

As I stated recently in response to previous questions on this issue, I am not prepared to speculate on the outcome of the commercial DTT process, which is a matter for the BAI, an independent regulatory authority. Nor am I prepared to surmise on the ongoing negotiations between the BAI, RTÉ and the OneVision consortium. I have, however, made clear my view that I would like to see this process concluded as soon as possible.

The conclusion of the process is essential to provide certainty for broadcasters, suppliers and the general public with regard to the development of commercial DTT services in Ireland.

Under section 129 of the Broadcasting Act 2009 RTÉ is required to ensure that ‘free-to-air’ DTT is available to approximately 90% of the population on such date as may be specified by the Minister. I signed an Order last week specifying this date as 31st October 2010.

The Act also requires RTÉ to provide a national ‘free to air’ digital service with capacity to carry RTÉ 1, RTE 2, TG4 and TV3 by the end of 2011 or such later date as I may specify. I have written to RTE informing them that the date for provision of a national service is 31 December 2011.

As I have previously stated, my policy objective is the earliest possible switch-off of the analogue TV system operated by RTÉNL and it is my intention that this will be no later that quarter four 2012. The timely switch-off of analogue broadcast services will release valuable spectrum and will position Ireland to maximise the benefits of the resulting digital dividend.

http://debates.oireachtas.ie/DDebate.aspx?F=DAL20100302.XML&Node=1225#N1225

SPDUB · 03-03-2010 09:52PM

planning for analogue switch off and related matters is chaired by the Head of the Broadcasting Policy Division in my Department. The Group includes representatives of the Broadcasting Authority of Ireland (BAI), ComReg, RTE and my Department.

Not a single consumer group on it ( who could look out for the public interest ) .It's just an industry talking shop .Bugger the people it will actually effect .

Mayo Exile · 03-03-2010 11:50PM

Sam Russell wrote: »

see https://us.v-cdn.net/6034073/uploads/attachments/10144/74321.pdf
I think the main transmitters cover 75% of the population. According to the schedule, the 90% coverage is due to occur in Q3 2010. Maybe 31st October 2010.:D

How accurate is the rollout schedule indicated in this document going into the future I wonder? I notice Castlebar is due in Q2 2010 with an ERP of 2KW (currently 9 KW analogue). With the current delays to DTT would Castlebar really be on the air by June 30th 2010?

The Cush · 04-03-2010 01:02AM

Mayo Exile wrote: »

How accurate is the rollout schedule indicated in this document going into the future I wonder? I notice Castlebar is due in Q2 2010 with an ERP of 2KW (currently 9 KW analogue). With the current delays to DTT would Castlebar really be on the air by June 30th 2010?

The rollout schedule is about 2 years old and was prepared by RTÉNL for the groups applying for the commercial DTT multiplex licences. Since then the economy has gone downhill and the rollout slowed down.

RTÉ are part of the Dept's ASO Group who are advising the Minister on the rollout of DTT incl the 31st Oct PSB Mux date. From this we can assume RTÉ are confident of reaching 90% coverage by that date and so there may be a push to rollout the larger relays before then.

rabbitsears · 10-03-2010 01:02PM

Here's my view on Onevision...at this stage I would expect them to either give in to RTÉ's €20m demand or pack up and leave the stage.

But - will RTÉ demand €20m from themselves if they are left with the licence?

Eamon Ryan should resign as the whole digital terrestrial licence situation has been a farce from start to finish. RTÉ were determined to win out and provide the commercial muxes and I rather suspect they will win in the end.

Elmo · 10-03-2010 01:05PM

rabbitsears wrote: »

Here's my view on Onevision...at this stage I would expect them to either give in to RTÉ's €20m demand or pack up and leave the stage.

But - will RTÉ demand €20m from themselves if they are left with the licence?

Eamon Ryan should resign as the whole digital terrestrial licence situation has been a farce from start to finish. RTÉ were determined to win out and provide the commercial muxes and I rather suspect they will win in the end.

Easy TV will be left with the same problem but RTÉ have a little more control in that situation.

There are about 10 (possibly more) other FF ministers that need to resign long before Eamon Ryan. Including those former FF minister in Culture, Communications and Enterprise who all had a hand in several of the F**k ups that caused Eamon Ryan to be in this situation.

icdg · 10-03-2010 07:49PM

Indeed this has been going since the NERA/Smith report back in 1998. Since then we've been through various proposals - Digico, Its'TV, Boxer, and now OneVision/Saorview. The inability of DMNCR to get a DTT service on air twelve years after they first started planning is quite frankly an outrage.

Pay TV on DTT is dead (or will be stillborn). By now anyone who wants pay-TV will have it (via Sky or cable/MMDS/IPTV). Even if OneVision launches it will be up against it from day one and if ITV Digital could not make a success of it in a UK market with a far lower pay-TV uptake (in 1998) than ROI then I can't see any pay-DTT operator suceed here. A pay-DTT service will be a poor relation of either Sky or cable - it will never compete on content and will have to undercut both main players on price - which could mean running at a loss for a long time in the middle of a recession. How big pockets will its backers have and how long will they bankroll it at a loss?

Therefore FTA DTT is the way forward but if it is simply a simulcast of the FTA Four then people will ask what the point is of DSO. It will need both a carrot and a stick to encourage people to switch (the carrot being new channels, the stick being ASO). The way forward should be a mandatory coalition of RTÉ, TV3, TG4, the BAI and to allow on board any other broadcaster (Setanta, BBC Northern Ireland, or UTV) who is interested in contributing to a mainly FTA DTT service - Setanta's business is pay-TV so I wouldn't see them getting involved but if they wanted to run a showcase service on it I wouldn't stop them.

10000maniacs · 10-03-2010 07:59PM

icdg wrote: »

Indeed this has been going since the NERA/Smith report back in 1998. Since then we've been through various proposals - Digico, Its'TV, Boxer, and now OneVision/Saorview. The inability of DMNCR to get a DTT service on air twelve years after they first started planning is quite frankly an outrage.

Pay TV on DTT is dead (or will be stillborn). By now anyone who wants pay-TV will have it (via Sky or cable/MMDS/IPTV). Even if OneVision launches it will be up against it from day one and if ITV Digital could not make a success of it in a UK market with a far lower pay-TV uptake (in 1998) than ROI then I can't see any pay-DTT operator suceed here. A pay-DTT service will be a poor relation of either Sky or cable - it will never compete on content and will have to undercut both main players on price - which could mean running at a loss for a long time in the middle of a recession. How big pockets will its backers have and how long will they bankroll it at a loss?

Therefore FTA DTT is the way forward but if it is simply a simulcast of the FTA Four then people will ask what the point is of DSO. It will need both a carrot and a stick to encourage people to switch (the carrot being new channels, the stick being ASO). The way forward should be a mandatory coalition of RTÉ, TV3, TG4, the BAI and to allow on board any other broadcaster (Setanta, BBC Northern Ireland, or UTV) who is interested in contributing to a mainly FTA DTT service - Setanta's business is pay-TV so I wouldn't see them getting involved but if they wanted to run a showcase service on it I wouldn't stop them.

Good post ICDG.
By the way what do you think of Eamonn Ryans U-Turn on FTA BBC services on Irish DTT.

Sam Russell · 10-03-2010 08:33PM

10000maniacs wrote: »

Good post ICDG.
By the way what do you think of Eamonn Ryans U-Turn on FTA BBC services on Irish DTT.

As I've said in other posts, stupid stupid stupid. No one wins, because everyone can get BBC free if they can put up a dish. 15 % to 25% of the population get it free from overspill, and 25% do not pay for TV at the moment so do not care. That leaves the rest who pay NTL or $ky for it, and for other channels like sport and films. No one would decide on the Onevision PTV on the basis of BBC alone. So no gainers, all losers, particularly the minister who has shown his vulnerability to his department mandarins and his/their sleaveen approach to commercial vested interests (misguided as they maybe). Onevision are not going to further their cause by having to pay for something they could have got for free. [No royalties and no tansmission charges as they would be swapped for those of RTE in the north, I am guessing with RTE stuck with the transmission of the beeb.] It would also make room for two more paying channels on the comm mux, as the Beeb could be squeezed onto the pub mux. Overall a good days work [not].

carrolls · 10-03-2010 10:27PM

Sam Russell wrote: »

As I've said in other posts, stupid stupid stupid. No one wins, because everyone can get BBC free if they can put up a dish. 15 % to 25% of the population get it free from overspill, and 25% do not pay for TV at the moment so do not care. That leaves the rest who pay NTL or $ky for it, and for other channels like sport and films. No one would decide on the Onevision PTV on the basis of BBC alone. So no gainers, all losers, particularly the minister who has shown his vulnerability to his department mandarins and his/their sleaveen approach to commercial vested interests (misguided as they maybe). Onevision are not going to further their cause by having to pay for something they could have got for free. [No royalties and no tansmission charges as they would be swapped for those of RTE in the north, I am guessing with RTE stuck with the transmission of the beeb.] It would also make room for two more paying channels on the comm mux, as the Beeb could be squeezed onto the pub mux. Overall a good days work [not].

Heres to another 12 years of idiocy.

DTT Commercial Multiplexes (was OneVision, Boxer etc...)

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