DTT Commercial Multiplexes (was OneVision, Boxer etc...)

slegs

carrolls wrote: »

As it is the only model that has any chance of working long term based on past history in different countries, DTT is doomed. Unless of course they listen to me instead of you.

I agree wholeheartedly its the best model and you are not pointing out anything that hasnt been said here many times before. The problem is money. Its just not there for the Freeview type model in the short term.

Pay DTT is doomed but Saorview has a future. It needs to take small steps though becuase of lack of funding. We need to launch the free PSB channels and take it from there.

Sam Russell

I think RTE should launch with both RTE1 and RTE2 in HD, upscaled where necessary. Also, not allow these HD channels be broadcast on any other medium, so gaining a reason for people to go DTT. RTE NEWS NOW should carry RTE Factual content, within 24 hours of its creation at times different from the normal channel. RTE also has the rights to Euronews so broadcast that on another channel. Removing RTE 1 and 2 from Sky might be a good strategy as well. This would pack the public mux, I would think.

With BBC on the comm mux FTA, with possibly C4 as well.

It would certainly be popular. 60% of people should be able to receive it with rabbit ears.

Elmo

Sam Russell wrote: »

RTE NEWS NOW should carry RTE Factual content, within 24 hours of its creation at times different from the normal channel. RTE also has the rights to Euronews so broadcast that on another channel.

I agree but they could aways have some of the factual programming appear on RTÉ News Now before either 1 or 2, and perhaps a month after the programmes has appears on either 1 or 2, and also up 24 hours after it has appeared on RTÉ 1 or 2. Rather than Euronews (which IMO is bias) they should look at providing EBU headlines from each of the EBU members.

In relation to other channels (not PSB UK services), would it be acceptable that in the first instance that a channel like Viva would appear up until such time as an Irish music channel may want to launch i.e. Music Ireland (for want of a better name) would take over from Viva!!!!

Sam Russell

Elmo wrote: »

I agree but they could aways have some of the factual programming appear on RTÉ News Now before either 1 or 2, and perhaps a month after the programmes has appears on either 1 or 2, and also up 24 hours after it has appeared on RTÉ 1 or 2. Rather than Euronews (which IMO is bias) they should look at providing EBU headlines from each of the EBU members.

Unless it appears within 24 hours, it makes a liar of the RTE New NOW. But it would be better, for example, if RTE NEWS NOW were to show live The Politics Programme which is recorded on Sunday, for later broadcast. They could also show the Dail live during the day for say questions. This would have the effect of raising the profile of the Dail, and also increasing the attendance. There is plenty of scope for good Irish programming, RTE has the talent to do a good job, particularly if it moves away from its ego driven 'stars'.

I would think Euronews would need to be content selected, it is stiff and boring, and propaganda, but it is free.

There are endless possibilities, without going down the $ky route.

Elmo

Sam Russell wrote: »

Unless it appears within 24 hours, it makes a liar of the RTE New NOW. But it would be better, for example, if RTE NEWS NOW were to show live The Politics Programme which is recorded on Sunday, for later broadcast. .

I was thinking more along the lines of Documentary programming on Sports, Arts and politics. Arts News and the View. But they seem to have taken way and of the extra content from www.rte.ie that used to fill some space such as interviews with sports people and actors etc. MSN and The Against the Head could also be broadcast on the channel.

d8player

Sam Russell wrote: »

Unless it appears within 24 hours, it makes a liar of the RTE New NOW.

RTE News Now is not the same as RTE News Live but even if it is confusing its a simple name change. We already have "Sky News" and "BBC News 24" so something like that would do.

Sam Russell

d8player wrote: »

RTE News Now is not the same as RTE News Live but even if it is confusing its a simple name change. We already have "Sky News" and "BBC News 24" so something like that would do.

I take your point, but in the transition time before ASO, the RTE Factual programmes could fill the channel, showing at different times so it becomes a better option than a simple (and I think lazy) RTE1+1. It would also give more oportunity to sell advertising space.

The main point I was making was that RTE 1 and 2 should go full HD from the start, upscaling where required. This saves the changeover later, which, given that the SOARView certified equipment has to be HD, makes sense. The output to a scart would be downscaled, I would assume.

Charles Slane

Sam Russell wrote: »

Removing RTE 1 and 2 from Sky might be a good strategy as well.

So what would people who can't receive RTE through an aerial do? If you really want to force the uptake of RTE on DTT why not remove it from UPC while you're at it?

Sam Russell wrote: »

I think RTE should launch with both RTE1 and RTE2 in HD, upscaled where necessary. Also, not allow these HD channels be broadcast on any other medium, so gaining a reason for people to go DTT.

Why are you so keen on everyone going DTT? Do you not think people should have a choice?

galtee boy

The Cush wrote: »

BAI Board meeting Monday

Anybody know when we might find out what, if anything, was decided at today's meeting ?

Elmo

galtee boy wrote: »

Anybody know when we might find out what, if anything, was decided at today's meeting ?

No, probably not the whole thing has been run behind closed doors since the beginning of the process. The BAI have no interest in talking to the public about their responsibilities.

I would like to see a BAI Annual Report for each of the last 5 years.

The BAI lack transparency.

Sam Russell

Elmo wrote: »

The BAI lack transparency.

They do not like broadcasting their affairs.:D

Sam Russell

Charles Slane wrote: »

So what would people who can't receive RTE through an aerial do? If you really want to force the uptake of RTE on DTT why not remove it from UPC while you're at it?



Why are you so keen on everyone going DTT? Do you not think people should have a choice?

I think DTT needs a unique selling point if it is to succeed. They would have it with HD. I do not think it is in this nations interest to increase the profit of a foreign broadcaster that does not pay Irish taxes. Nor do I think it is the interest of RTE to encourage people (viewers) onto the $Ky platform. Others have other opinions.

The market for DTT will be on second and third tellys in the first instance for many people. When it is realised that perfect picture quality is available for free, then it will gather momentum. And succeed.

carrolls

Sam Russell wrote: »

I think DTT needs a unique selling point if it is to succeed. They would have it with HD. I do not think it is in this nations interest to increase the profit of a foreign broadcaster that does not pay Irish taxes. .

I agree with your HD suggestion, but I disagree with a number of other points you made.
Removing RTE from Sky is counter-productive and a backward step. A lot of people depend on Sky for RTE. Also, if Sky did not do the deal with RTE in 2001, we would probably still be looking at an analogue RTE picture in 2010.

mburke

Are there any mpeg4 set-top box's on the market at an affordable price that can be got to connect to older tv's so that they could pick up the dtt service ?

Sam Russell

The problem with the HD idea is that it would be difficult to justify a STB cost of €100 for a telly not worth much more. A new MPEG4 HD set is about €300 up, depending on make and size. So people will be trapped on non DTT until ASO. If they are on sky or NTL, they will tend to stay there. Prices will drop and quality will rise, but the word will get out.

Non HD stbs could well be less than €50, but the requirements laid down by SOARView is for HD. It would be foolish to offer stbs that were not HD. The new Freeview HD boxes are already heading south of €100. That will keep the competition going, together with overspill.

The Cush

From the Irish Independent online today, the end is in sight for OneVision at last.

One Vision given two weeks to clinch digital television contract

By Laura Noonan
Friday April 02 2010

THE Broadcasting Authority has given the One Vision consortium a fortnight to clinch an elusive deal on the commercial contract for Digital Terrestrial Television (DTT).

The regulator has also asked a third party to review details of One Vision's protracted carriage negotiations with RTE's networks division, the Irish Independent has learned. The moves come almost 11 months after One Vision was offered the commercial DTT contract when Boxer DTT abandoned plans to spend €160m on the project.

The Eircom-led consortium was initially expected to sign the contract within weeks, and Broadcasting Authority chairman Bob Collins recently said his board had "very little patience" left with the impasse.

A Broadcasting Authority board meeting on Monday was initially seen as "make or break" for the project, but the Authority has instead given One Vision a fortnight to indicate definitively whether they're prepared to go ahead with the project.

Issues
One Vision is understood to have a number of issues left to address, including the crucial contract with RTE, which will provide the technology platform for the TV service.

To facilitate a deal on this, a third party will now examine documents relating to those network negotiations.

Sources close to the process stressed that there was no question of the third party being able to issue any binding recommendations for what is essentially a normal commercial deal.

It is understood that the lengthy One Vision delays mean that plans to have commercial DTT on in 2010 are now beyond reach. RTE is expected to roll out public service DTT from October, in keeping with a recent ministerial instruction, however the public information campaign around DTT is not expected to begin until the commercial service goes live.

A spokesman for the Broadcasting Authority declined to comment on the latest moves, saying only that talks were "ongoing". A spokesman for One Vision said the consortium was still "very much engaged in the process".

If One Vision fails to sign the contract, the commercial DTT project will then be offered to an RTE / Liberty Global consortium which came third in the initial contract battle.

Whether that consortium would accept the contract or not remains unclear.

- Laura Noonan

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/one-vision-given-two-weeks-to-clinch-digital-television-contract-2122249.html

tlaavtech

At least we will have an answer.

RTE is expected to roll out public service DTT from October, in keeping with a recent ministerial instruction, however the public information campaign around DTT is not expected to begin until the commercial service goes live.

This answers one question that I had - but it seems to be the worst solution to the problem. We at least need a Saorview sticker to give people some guidance when buying - particularly on MPEG4 televisions.

Elmo

however the public information campaign around DTT is not expected to begin until the commercial service goes live.

In other words no commercial Pay TV operator will start up if they have to provide details about other forms of Digital TV such as Other Pay Platforms (Satellite, Cable, MMDS), FreeSat, SaorView etc etc.

Well One Vision isn't going to happen and we have a deadline at last.

Sam Russell

Does this mean that when the SAORview system launches, the TV3 channel will be included, or do we have to endure a period of RTENL test card instead?

(The test card is generally more interesting, imho.):D

Elmo

Sam Russell wrote: »

Does this mean that when the SAORview system launches, the TV3 channel will be included, or do we have to endure a period of RTENL test card instead?

I assume once launched TV3 becomes a fixture of SaorView, unless they are holding off because of One Vision. Will RTÉ News Now be a fixture of SaorView?

Sam Russell

I would assume that RTE realised they were carrying TV3 for free, and took them off DTT for that reason. Iassume that if they refuse to pay to be carried, then they will not be carried.

I assume also that RTE NEWS NOW was not a technical aberration and there was a plan to create such a channel. Its form may well be a full blown RTE channel, with a full schedule including RTE Factual programmes like Frontline and The Politics Programme, and not just a relay of internet traffic.

What I am more interested in is will RTE 1 and 2 be broadcast in HD from the start, as it is in the spec that all receivers must be HD compatible. Will my trusty Picnic box be confined to the bin of obsolete technology?

d8player

Sam Russell wrote: »

What I am more interested in is will RTE 1 and 2 be broadcast in HD from the start, as it is in the spec that all receivers must be HD compatible. Will my trusty Picnic box be confined to the bin of obsolete technology?

Its an interesting point but I would be surprised if RTE try to provide HD without anything extra in it for them.

Elmo

If I have an SD TV can I watch HD channels in SD? or would I have to get a STB?

scath

Its what I suspected.The ultimatum has arrived. 2 weeks is tight but prevents drag and allows the BAI to contact Easy TV if its a no before the next board meeting with a further no or yes.

This week the 3rd party is engaged and looks at the negotations and advises the BAI early next week. The BAI outline their view to the parties on Thursday evening following their review of same. final positions by Monday lunchtime 2 weeks time. One Vision either indicate acceptance of the terms with a view to putting finance in place and signing off mid week after or they indicate they cannot sign off and wish the BAI well.

If its a no, then in week 3, BAI contact RTÉ NL & Liberty Global as to if Easy TV wish to proceed with an offer to contract. By mid-week 3 there should be an answer and then the board meeting ratifies that or if its also a no, agrees to refer to the Minister for direction at that board meeting of BAI.

Two no's make encourage it to seek to revise terms with ComReg via the Minister and re-tender by the Summer. If Easy TV say yes then one would presumably by talking about mid-July given RTÉ NL doesn't need a security bond from itself, only just to get the finance in place and from Liberty Global also. Should be straightfoward given both parties experience in the market already. Matters should clarify within the next 3 weeks which is a relief to us.

Elmo

I think we would all be just as disappointed if EasyTV are given the licence in principle by the BAI. After 2 failed attempts at commerical Pay DTT it is time to scrap it and go with many of the suggests placed on boards (by me ). By any poster.

IMO In 2 weeks when One Vision hand back the licence then the BAI and the Government need to move towards a different way of thinking: -

A proper timeline: -

May 1ST: RTÉ NL launches SaorView with RTÉ 1, 2, TV3, TG4, 3E, BBC 1 & 2 NI, City Channel, Community TV, RTÉ NEWS NOW. While BAI announce the closing date for applications for new Irish Channels from all broadcasters, closing date 31st August 2010.
October 31st: Launch IFB Channel and OTV under TnaG, RTÉ 3 and RTÉ 1 Deferred. While also launch some temporary foreign FTA channels on the service which would be replace by Irish Commercial Operations by 1st Jan 2011, should anyone be willing to take on the licences.
May 2011 RTÉ HD, VOD services and pay TV appear on the SoarView.

It might be a quick turn around but it needs to happen.

scath

The reality is for commercial and funding reasons, Pay DTT is required to fund the network build. So to say drop it is difficult for RTÉ NL to stomach, and thus the regulator or Minister without exhausting the process. My own view is that Easy TV may well go for it. But if they don't then I imagine that the BAI will have to seek lower spectrum license costs from ComReg given the market concerns (3 failed license negotations).

So what you're saying Elmo seems sensible if Easy TV say no.

I suspect what you will have then is Sky Picnic Ireland seeking a Pay DTT license for its channels as in http://www.ofcom.org.uk/consult/condocs/third_paytv/statement/ in the UK. I suspect that's what Easy TV were trying to avoid for Liberty Global.

I do think that easily a 2nd mux could be taken up by RTÉ now with a view to having 2 muxes for subscription channels pre ASO. Then again. After 1 year, the 2 additional muxes will be cleared so no rush there really. And RTE won't have HD ready until 2012 I suspect with planning next year and studio upgrade program.

...meanwhile the UK's 2nd pay DTT operation is given clearance to launch! http://www.ofcom.org.uk/consult/condocs/third_paytv/statement/

Elmo

scath wrote: »

The reality is for commercial and funding reasons, Pay DTT is required to fund the network build.

The Commercial channels and RTÉ through Commercial Revenues would support the build. Anyway how much more of a build is required???? How does RTÉ NL support itself? It does get fees etc.

d8player

scath wrote: »

I suspect what you will have then is Sky Picnic Ireland seeking a Pay DTT license for its channels as in http://www.ofcom.org.uk/consult/condocs/third_paytv/statement/ in the UK. I suspect that's what Easy TV were trying to avoid for Liberty Global.

I would love if either BAI or Comreg would take a similar stance with Sky and force them to provide their HD services at a regulated price to other carriers,

icdg

Elmo wrote: »

Irom.
October 31st: Launch IFB Channel and OTV under TnaG, RTÉ 3 and RTÉ 1 Deferred. While also launch some temporary foreign FTA channels on the service which would be replace by Irish Commercial Operations by 1st Jan 2011, should anyone be willing to take on the licences.
May 2011 RTÉ HD, VOD services and pay TV appear on the SoarView.

Lots of wishful thinking there. EU law prevents us from running the Canadian law that if there's a Canadian speciality channel a US one can't be let in. I can't see a big enough market for Irish speciality channels in areas where UK ones exist - Setanta Ireland lives on the back of its guarenteed income from UPC (it certainly can't be selling too many Setanta Sports 1 subscriptions given the reaction to today's match), 3e would have collapsed if TV3 hadn't taken it over, and City Channel survives because its largely an informercial model anyway.

The Irish Film Channel and RTÉ3/RTÉ HD are not going to happen during the recession. (I don't know whats stopping Oireachtas TV though other than the daft deccision to let the Oireachtas Commission run it instead of an existing broadcaster on whose infrastructure it could piggyback)

Elmo

icdg wrote: »

Lots of wishful thinking there. EU law prevents us from running the Canadian law that if there's a Canadian speciality channel a US one can't be let in. I can't see a big enough market for Irish speciality channels in areas where UK ones exist - Setanta Ireland lives on the back of its guarenteed income from UPC (it certainly can't be selling too many Setanta Sports 1 subscriptions given the reaction to today's match), 3e would have collapsed if TV3 hadn't taken it over, and City Channel survives because its largely an informercial model anyway.

The Irish Film Channel and RTÉ3/RTÉ HD are not going to happen during the recession. (I don't know whats stopping Oireachtas TV though other than the daft deccision to let the Oireachtas Commission run it instead of an existing broadcaster on whose infrastructure it could piggyback)

Again I would be worried that as more foreign and larger companies go on DTT FTA that they would look towards taking advertising from the Irish market. Sure a move like that would be worth at least 25% of the advertising market, one that is already shrinking.

I don't think there are many niche/speciality channels out there; MTV isn't really a music channel for music lovers; Discovery really isn't for lovers of Documentary. Rather they have all assumed a General Entertainment LCD niche (and that isn't a niche).

I don't see why if DTT was to go live with VIVA that an Irish Music Channel couldn't replace it, even VIVA is less of a music channel after (what?) 4 months :rolleyes:

I don't know much about Canada but I assume that they haven't let their DTT system become over run by their largest competitor. And the Candian's have similar problems to Irish TV in relation to Spillover and Cable from a larger neighbour.

My suggestion for the IFB and OTV channel is that they come under TnaG. TnaG already buys films and produces Irish films, there is no reason why the IFB/BSÉ channel could benefit from lining up with TG4. Remember Film Four repeats movies from More 4, C4 and E4 and they repeat films from Film Four. It makes strategic sense for TG4 to want to line itself up with a service that will repeat films from its line up of imports and home grown produce and visaversa.

In relation to RTÉ 3 well it would just show RTÉ 1's and 2's late night schedule during Prime Time hours, there would be very little extra cost involved as RTÉ buy repeat rights to many shows that they don't ever repeat, remember the buy in nearly 11,000 hours of TV already thats enough for 4 channels, plus repeats of their own shows.

There is no EU law suggesting that EU countries should not licence TV channels for their Platforms.

Yes I was very surprised to see Munster V Leinster on Setanta Sports 1, which is badly marketed. I don't see why SS1 isn't closed and that Setanta Ireland doesn't go FTA, when they do have actual live sports on the air they increase their audience share significantly.