DTT Commercial Multiplexes (was OneVision, Boxer etc...)

10000maniacs

10000maniacs wrote: »

I don't think that there are many analogue cable or analogue MMDS subscribers left since UPC offered the basic digital package at a cheaper price than analogue. And even these people left will be reluctant to switch to a worse package. The picture quality on UPC analogue is at least as good as DTT on 544x576. These new boxes won't have upscaled HDMI or progressive scan.

I did a test recently and discovered that UPC digital, fed into my laptop via a composite connection, was still sharper than the 544x576 DTT feed.

Sam Russell

10000maniacs wrote: »

I don't think that there are many analogue cable or analogue MMDS subscribers left since UPC offered the basic digital package at a cheaper price than analogue. And even these people left will be reluctant to switch to a worse package. The picture quality on UPC analogue is at least as good as DTT on 544x576. These new boxes won't have upscaled HDMI or progressive scan.

So even the analogue UPC lot will not subscribe to Onevision. Good job I had already decided not to invest in the consortium. Perhaps TV3 knew something when they unloaded their shareholding.:D

Biffo The Bare

10000maniacs wrote: »

.
By the way there are 103,330 (13%) of households in 4 channel land. This is the target market for Pay DTT that OneVision will have to sell to. These 103,330 households have resisted MMDS, Sky, Cable and FTA satellite up to this date and have up to now proved to be the hardest sell for Pay TV.
Once OneVision have subsidised the STBs, paid BBC WW, Virgin, Sky, ITV Channel 4 etc for the TV rights, paid all those high salaried marketing, sales and electrical/software engineering executives and kitted out a call centre, and paid for space on the network, I don't see how they will even come close to making a profit.

Don't forget the advertising budget too.:D

Elmo

Sam Russell wrote: »

I think those 103,330 homes will not be persuaded. At least, most will not. I think Onevision's market has to be the bottom feeders in the paytv market, the minimum spenders - those on €20 /month contracts; those who still have analogue cable, or analogue MMDS. [Migration from $ky will be to Freesat, as they already have the dish.] To get these, they have to offer the same for a lot less. Never a good business/sales approach. And certainly not in a startup in a crowded mature market, already saturated.

I don't think all of those homes in 4 TV land have access to MMDS, Satellite or Cable pay services and again most of those homes will be the last to be able to get One Vision or FTA DTT. So while One Vision will have to convince them of the benifits of paying for TV, they won't have for another 5 years (if 4 TV Land viewers are lucky). (And we all know that some of those in 4 TV land are still only in 3 TV land).

So even the analogue UPC lot will not subscribe to Onevision. Good job I had already decided not to invest in the consortium. Perhaps TV3 knew something when they unloaded their shareholding.

Even if UPC turns of their analogue cable services, they could provide a similar and better package on the price that One Vision is providing. And remember unlike Eircom UPC can charge what they want to protect their market share from new companies starting up.

Sam Russell

Elmo wrote: »

I don't think all of those homes in 4 TV land have access to MMDS, Satellite or Cable pay services and again most of those homes will be the last to be able to get One Vision or FTA DTT. So while One Vision will have to convince them of the benifits of paying for TV, they won't have for another 5 years (if 4 TV Land viewers are lucky). (And we all know that some of those in 4 TV land are still only in 3 TV land).



Even if UPC turns of their analogue cable services, they could provide a similar and better package on the price that One Vision is providing. And remember unlike Eircom UPC can charge what they want to protect their market share from new companies starting up.

Exactly. 5 years is a long time to persuade an important segment of the market to take up your product. And as you say, UPC and $ky will not stand idly by as Onevision (should they accept the mission) try to take their breakfast.

If RTE had to do it alone, could they?

Elmo

Sam Russell wrote: »

If RTE had to do it alone, could they?

They would be rolling out FTA TV along with the BAI. The BAI would licence other TV services from TV3 and other independents who would be must carry on all platforms. RTÉ would launch RTÉ "NEWS NOW", "THREE" and "HD" as described in our posts above. 3e would be part of the platform. TG4, BSÉ/IFB Channel and Oireachtas TV would come under one group with this group being also given a commercial channel to support their Public service remits, again all must carry channels.

With a licence given to BBC NI for BBC ROI (a mix of BBC NI and UTV News and programming). If they purely want ROI viewers to know what their northern neighbours are doing, if BBC WW aren't willing to allow for the 2 channels in ROI. Or just let UTV apply for a licence for UTV2 without ITV networked programming.

And then your pay services from Sky, Setanta etc.

Sam Russell

@Elmo: If RTE were running it, they would charge the going rate to TV3, TG4. The Irish Film channel and Oireachtas Channel would also be charged the going rate. Any other channel would also be charged, but they are not 'must carry' and could be required to pay a premium. Do they have the muscle to get good deals from other channels, without destroying their own commercial basis?

Elmo

Sam Russell wrote: »

@Elmo: If RTE were running it, they would charge the going rate to TV3, TG4. The Irish Film channel and Oireachtas Channel would also be charged the going rate. Any other channel would also be charged, but they are not 'must carry' and could be required to pay a premium. Do they have the muscle to get good deals from other channels, without destroying their own commercial basis?

I agree that I don't know how much TV3, TG4, IFB, OTV etc would have to pay.

But UPC have to carry RTE 1, 2, TV3 and TG4. I don't see why the BAI could not make 3e, OTV, IFB/BSÉ, RTE 3, NEWS, HD, "TG4 Commercial" and other Irish Independents Digital Must Carries.

I know it would be difficult with Sky but If sky are getting Pay DTT for Sky Sports and Movies an arrangement could be made.

AFAIK TV3 and TG4 are only paying 1.5million PA to RTÉ NL for carriage. But than as pointed out we are paying for RTÉ NL to an extend and we do own that company so the BAI and RTÉ should be fully in control of that service. One Vision removes most content regulations placed upon the network.

Sam Russell

DTT is cheaper to run than analogue by quite a bit. So the per channel cost would be much lower, so if RTENL could maintain current charge, they could afford to do other things with the surplus, like extend the network to more population, and improve the bitrates.

RTENL is a regulated entity, so they are not allowed to be too commercial.

10000maniacs

Elmo wrote: »

With a licence given to BBC NI for BBC ROI (a mix of BBC NI and UTV News and programming). If they purely want ROI viewers to know what their northern neighbours are doing, if BBC WW aren't willing to allow for the 2 channels in ROI. Or just let UTV apply for a licence for UTV2 without ITV networked programming.

Where do you get this stuff from?:D
I can assure you that nobody at the BBC or UTV is going to take on a task of creating a channel just for the Republic. Anyway people in the South want the real channels, not hybrids.

Sam Russell

10000maniacs wrote: »

Where do you get this stuff from?:D
I can assure you that nobody at the BBC or UTV is going to take on a task of creating a channel just for the Republic. Anyway people in the South want the real channels, not hybrids.

Not quite true. When we were going for a second TV channel, it was determined that what was wanted by 'the Irish Public' was RTE2 rather than the rebroadcast of a UK channel.

No one is going to go to the trouble of remixing channels when they can just rebroadcast an existing channel. BBC1 and BBC2 are already a given, both NI versions. UTV would be very happy to be rebroadcast, maybe €1.5m happy, but TV3 might be €1.5m unhappy.

My original question was 'Could RTE manage the whole DTT?' In other words, do they have the commercial and management skills to make it work, both commercially (make a profit) and from an entertainment and audience point of view? Can they beat off the competition from $ky and UPC?

Elmo

10000maniacs wrote: »

Where do you get this stuff from?:D
I can assure you that nobody at the BBC or UTV is going to take on a task of creating a channel just for the Republic. Anyway people in the South want the real channels, not hybrids.

I am just giving a suggestion nothing more. :rolleyes:

UTV I can assure you are very active in broadcasting in southern Ireland. I don't see why they wouldn't want a Digital channel haven't they always been available in the republic in one form or another. I do agree with you that people in the South want BBC 1 NI, 2NI and UTV not just a mix. But if BBC WW did ask the governments to back track on their MOU then the only option would be either to have NITV in the south (basing on the idea that the Minister wants the south's public to know and interact with the north's) or to give UTV a full service with the ablity to uses UTV programming and buy in UK/US programming. UTV could buy EastEnders from BBC for UTV2 instead of having RTÉ buy it. As you say I am just thinking outside the box perhaps too far outside. UTV2 could even compete with TV3 for Coronation Street and Emmerdale.

Elmo

Sam Russell wrote: »

Not quite true. When we were going for a second TV channel, it was determined that what was wanted by 'the Irish Public' was RTE2 rather than the rebroadcast of a UK channel.

No one is going to go to the trouble of remixing channels when they can just rebroadcast an existing channel. BBC1 and BBC2 are already a given, both NI versions. UTV would be very happy to be rebroadcast, maybe €1.5m happy, but TV3 might be €1.5m unhappy.

My original question was 'Could RTE manage the whole DTT?' In other words, do they have the commercial and management skills to make it work, both commercially (make a profit) and from an entertainment and audience point of view? Can they beat off the competition from $ky and UPC?

RTÉ 2 was set up to be a mix of BBC 1, 2 and ITV plus some ROI programming. By 1988 they had to change its format because it wasn't being watched. (Fecking up my argument )

I think if FTA services are provided on RTÉ NL by both commercial and public broadcasters, yes but they would have to be FTA and Must Carries. I think Sky and Setanta would be interested in the pay TV options on a small scale on DTT. But I think that Sky and UPC will always be part of the mix.

10000maniacs

Elmo wrote: »

I am just giving a suggestion nothing more. :rolleyes:

UTV I can assure you are very active in broadcasting in southern Ireland. I don't see why they wouldn't want a Digital channel haven't they always been available in the republic in one form or another. I do agree with you that people in the South want BBC 1 NI, 2NI and UTV not just a mix. But if BBC WW did ask the governments to back track on their MOU then the only option would be either to have NITV in the south (basing on the idea that the Minister wants the south's public to know and interact with the north's) or to give UTV a full service with the ablity to uses UTV programming and buy in UK/US programming. UTV could buy EastEnders from BBC for UTV2 instead of having RTÉ buy it. As you say I am just thinking outside the box perhaps too far outside. UTV2 could even compete with TV3 for Coronation Street and Emmerdale.

People in the South want BBC 1, BBC 2 and ITV, preferably the London versions, but they will take the Belfast versions it thats the only thing on offer. What they won't watch is a clumsy hybrid mish-mash of Ulster rubbish with the good UK/ International stuff taken out.

Sponge Bob

10000maniacs wrote: »

What they won't watch is a clumsy hybrid mish-mash of Ulster rubbish with the good UK/ International stuff taken out.

Which explains why they don't watch that much TV3

Elmo

10000maniacs wrote: »

People in the South want BBC 1, BBC 2 and ITV, preferably the London versions, but they will take the Belfast versions it thats the only thing on offer. What they won't watch is a clumsy hybrid mish-mash of Ulster rubbish with the good UK/ International stuff taken out.

Lets face it most of the NI programming is just local news with a few other items. Again you seemed to have missed the point of the MOU so that ROI viewers have access to NI broadcast about their neighbours and Visa-Versa. Not so that they can get access to EastEnders, Coronation Street, Casulty, The Bill and all the other wonder full soaps from England.

My other suggestion was UTV in ROI which would just compete with TV3 for ITV network programming while using their own news.

You will also note that there are very few international American productions actually on ITV bar the odd movie.

10000maniacs

Elmo wrote: »

Lets face it most of the NI programming is just local news with a few other items. Again you seemed to have missed the point of the MOU so that ROI viewers have access to NI broadcast about their neighbours and Visa-Versa. Not so that they can get access to EastEnders, Coronation Street, Casulty, The Bill and all the other wonder full soaps from England.

My other suggestion was UTV in ROI which would just compete with TV3 for ITV network programming while using their own news.

You will also note that there are very few international American productions actually on ITV bar the odd movie.

No I have not missed the point, excuse me.:p
Elmo you actually need to get real.
We missed the boat on MOU. BBC 1 and BBC 2 will not be free. We have Donkey Ryan to thank for that.
But the point I am making is that these Ulster hybrid channels that you seem to fantasize about will never ever happen. The reason is nobody is going to watch them.

Elmo

10000maniacs wrote: »

Elmo you actually need to get real.
We missed the boat on MOU. BBC 1 and BBC 2 will not be free. We have Donkey Ryan to thank for that.
But the point I am making is that these Ulster hybrid channels that you seem to fantasize about will never ever happen. The reason is nobody is going to watch them.

Well UTV could still provide there service in competition with TV3 ie they could buy ITV network programming for ROI, TV3 would have to let go of those shows.

10000maniacs you need to tone down your ignorance toward people. I was one of first to point out that the MOU wouldn't happen.

BoredNaMoaner

10000maniacs wrote: »

No I have not missed the point, excuse me.:p
Elmo you actually need to get real.
We missed the boat on MOU. BBC 1 and BBC 2 will not be free. We have Donkey Ryan to thank for that.
But the point I am making is that these Ulster hybrid channels that you seem to fantasize about will never ever happen. The reason is nobody is going to watch them.

Right.
If the Government had its head screwed on, it would realize the Big Game is not commercial DTT rights, but survival of an indigenous broadcasting platform. The opportunities created by the original MOU - of creating a viable FTA DTT service - have been cast aside for the short term gain of a commercial DTT operator who's predictable rapid commercial failure (if they ever actually try to launch) will not only cost the State 10's of millions in its failed effort, but will lead to the demise of RTE as a media provider to the majority of citizens as Freeview overspill and Freesat take over. Slow death spiral for RTE as revenues decline, and the erosion of our sovereignty as citizens have to rely on foreign controlled media.

Elmo

BoredNaMoaner wrote: »

Slow death spiral for RTE as revenues decline, and the erosion of our sovereignty as citizens have to rely on foreign controlled media.

But lets put UKTV, Viacom, Virgin, Sky and other multi-nationals on FTA DTT. (I am not talking about UTV or BBC NI).

BoredNaMoaner

Elmo wrote: »

But lets put UKTV, Viacom, Virgin, Sky and other multi-nationals on FTA DTT. (I am not talking about UTV or BBC NI).

Yes, but actual audience capture % of RTE/TV3 is actually pretty high on Cable/Sky platforms despite the choices available. The inclusion of the multi-nationals on FTA-DTT (especially BBC) would make a no-brainer alternative for consumers approaching ASO. As it stands, consumers are switching to Freeview overspill in the South East and Freesat elsewhere. No RTE/TV3 on these platforms. Audience capture % of RTE/TV3 in these households heading for zero...:(

Elmo

BoredNaMoaner wrote: »

Yes, but actual audience capture % of RTE/TV3 is actually pretty high on Cable/Sky platforms despite the choices available. The inclusion of the multi-nationals on FTA-DTT (especially BBC) would make a no-brainer alternative for consumers approaching ASO. As it stands, consumers are switching to Freeview overspill in the South East and Freesat elsewhere. No RTE/TV3 on these platforms. Audience capture % of RTE/TV3 in these households heading for zero...:(

I was not including BBC WW or BBC as a multinational, or C4 or UTV.

Channels mentioned for FTA DTT included a list of Multinationals including Virgin, Sky, UKTV (co-owned by BBC WW and Virgin), Viacom (MTV and Nick etc), Discovery Inc etc.

The audience capture of RTÉ, TV3 and TG4 actually diminishes significantly in multichannel homes. (Both RTÉ 1 and TV3 having 3% drops in Prime Time).

Your suggesting as to prevent the "erosion of our sovereignty as citizens have to rely on foreign controlled media" that we allow a significant number foreign and multinational companies air on FTA DTT while having no programming regulations placed on them. Which would put TV3 in a curious place of competing directly with companies that do not have the same requirements, and it would diminish their audience in DTT land.

I have no problem with BBC 1 NI, 2NI, UTV or C4. But I take issue with a serious number of multinationals going on DTT.

Even if RTÉ and TV3 didn't loose audience to those multinational channels on DTT would significantly eat into their share of the advertising pot thus making them unable to pay for actual programmes made in Ireland.

slegs

BoredNaMoaner wrote: »

Yes, but actual audience capture % of RTE/TV3 is actually pretty high on Cable/Sky platforms despite the choices available. The inclusion of the multi-nationals on FTA-DTT (especially BBC) would make a no-brainer alternative for consumers approaching ASO. As it stands, consumers are switching to Freeview overspill in the South West and Freesat elsewhere. No RTE/TV3 on these platforms. Audience capture % of RTE/TV3 in these households heading for zero...:(

I would like to see the stats on how many of these freeview overspill people are not viewing RTE through some form or other (most likely analog aerial). I would guess its less than 10%. RTE is the most popular station in Ireland full stop.

I agree though that a selection of UK channels should be made available on FTA DTT as we have the space and it will help the viability of the platform generally.

Elmo's point about promoting indigineous channels is well made and these should be given support to get on the platform also but it is unrealistic to think brand new Irish channels are suddenly going to appear. A ne4w channel needs huge investment which doesnt exisit at the moment.

Which brings us back to the UK channels. If they want access and are willing to pay the carriage costs then they should be accommodated where possible (with some quality control obviously - we dont want 5 rubbish shopping channels taking up space)

This assumes that we get beyond the Onevision plan which is obviously doomed to failure.

BoredNaMoaner

Ireland is fast running out of time of being able to introduce a viable DTT platform that will preserve the dominance of its indigenous stations. Unless Ireland decides to have a Stalinist system of protecting its TV through jamming etc., it will have to put up with foreign stations that are not under the remit of the Broadcasting Authority of Ireland (either preferably on FTA DTT or Freeview/Freesat). At this stage of the game being picky on this issue is a recipe for failure. Anyway, advances in technology in combo units will make the distinction irrelevant. Just launch the damn thing already.

slegs

slegs wrote: »

Which brings us back to the UK channels. If they want access and are willing to pay the carriage costs then they should be accommodated where possible (with some quality control obviously - we dont want 5 rubbish shopping channels taking up space)

This assumes that we get beyond the Onevision plan which is obviously doomed to failure.

Thats the ultimate catch 22.
Viewers in Ireland want and have always wanted BBC and ITV more than they have wanted us.
They are not going to pay for carriage.

The only reasonable solution is fta BBC one,Two and channel four in ROI on Dtt and FTA RTE one and Two in NI.
Increase the licence fee by 5 euro a year to pay for them nominally,theres plenty of room on one mux to include them and the 4 irish channels on that one and only which will have to be transmitted anyway- so no real extra tx cost.
Offer a rebate of the 5 euro for any household with an active cable/mmds or sky subscription.

But this is Ireland some botch doomed to failure different plan that ultimately isn't popular except with vested interests will be followed no doubt.

10000maniacs

BoredNaMoaner wrote: »

Just launch the damn thing already.

I agree, but for gombeen Ireland this simply does not compute.:)

Elmo

Deleted User wrote: »

Offer a rebate of the 5 euro for any household with an active cable/mmds or sky subscription.

How do you prove that you only avail of UPC or Sky? For example currently I have UPC but in one room I only have DTT.

Elmo

Elmo wrote: »

How do you prove that you only avail of UPC or Sky? For example currently I have UPC but in one room I only have DTT.

You don't have to prove that you don't use dtt.
I suggested the rebate because if you have sky you are paying for RTE in the north already and the BBC's in the south.
It doesn't matter or shouldn't matter to this end that you may be receiving it in a myriad of ways.
The idea is that you are paying in some way for the "foreign service".
I would not give the rebate on the basis of fta receivers-Only to those paying monthly subscriptions with people like sky/upc who are already using a tiny percentage of that for to pay for you viewing the "foreign channels".

slegs

Deleted User wrote: »

Thats the ultimate catch 22.
Viewers in Ireland want and have always wanted BBC and ITV more than they have wanted us.
They are not going to pay for carriage.

The only reasonable solution is fta BBC one,Two and channel four in ROI on Dtt and FTA RTE one and Two in NI.
Increase the licence fee by 5 euro a year to pay for them nominally,theres plenty of room on one mux to include them and the 4 irish channels on that one and only which will have to be transmitted anyway- so no real extra tx cost.
Offer a rebate of the 5 euro for any household with an active cable/mmds or sky subscription.

But this is Ireland some botch doomed to failure different plan that ultimately isn't popular except with vested interests will be followed no doubt.

I agree that BBC and C4 may need special status but I am pretty sure there are other semi decent channels that may be interested in being carried pending any rights issues they may have with programming. A nominal carriage cost could get them onto Saorview easily.

The Cush

The Minister in reply to a Dáil question yesterday said he has signed an Order (S.I. No. 85 of 2010) last week requiring RTÉ to ensure that the free-to-air DTT multiplex is available to approximately 90% of the population by 31st October and national coverage by 31st December 2011.

Deputy Eamon Ryan: As I stated recently in response to a previous question on the issue, I am not prepared to speculate on the outcome of the commercial DTT process, which is a matter for the BAI. Nor am I prepared to surmise on the ongoing negotiations between the BAI, RTE and the OneVision consortium. I have, however, made clear my opinion that I would like to see this process concluded as soon as possible. The conclusion of the process is essential to provide certainty for broadcasters, suppliers and the general public with regard to the development of commercial DTT services.

Under section 129 of the Broadcasting Act 2009, RTE is required to ensure that free-to-air DTT is available to approximately 90% of the population on such date as may be specified by the Minister. I signed an order last week specifying this date as being 31 October 2010. The Act also requires RTE to provide a national free-to-air digital service with capacity to carry RTE 1, RTE 2, TG4 and TV3 by the end of 2011 or such later date as I may specify. I have written to RTE informing it that the date for provision of a national service is 31 December 2011.

My policy objective is the earliest possible switch-off of the analogue television system operated by RTENL and it is my intention that this will be no later than quarter four of 2012.

DEPARTMENT OF COMMUNICATIONS, ENERGY AND
NATURAL RESOURCES.

S.I. No. 85 of 2010.

RTÉ (NATIONAL TELEVISION MULTIPLEX)
ORDER 2010.

Notice is hereby given that an Order entitled the RTÉ (National
Television Multiplex) Order 2010 (S.I. No. 85 of 2010) has been
made by the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural
Resources, Eamon Ryan, T.D., on the 26th February, 2010.
This Order provides 31st October, 2010, as the specified date
on which that National Television Multiplex is required to be
operational and available free-to-air to approximately 90% of
the population.

Copies of the Order are available, from the Government
Publications Sale Office, Sun Alliance House, Molesworth
Street, Dublin 2, or by mail order from Government
Publications, Postal Trade Section, Unit 20, Lakeside Retail
Park, Claremorris, Co. Mayo, or from any bookseller or on the
Departmental website: www.dcenr.ie.

Price: €1.27.

Dated this 26th day of February, 2010.

AIDAN DUNNING,
Secretary-General.

Also in reply he indicated that the end of March must be the deadline for the conclusion of negotiations with OneVision, which he also indicated last Nov.

Deputy Eamon Ryan: It is a contract negotiation arrangement, which is commercially sensitive. I am dissatisfied at the long time it has taken and I want to see an outcome quickly. We will be switching off our analogue system at the end of 2012 because the economic cost of using that spectrum for broadband is so significant that we cannot afford not to make that happen.

I agree that the preferred outcome is one where we combine a free-to-air service with a commercial platform which helps cover RTE’s transmission costs. This was set out in the legislation. I do not have complete control of that process but I believe it must be decided within a maximum of three or four weeks because we are running into timelines where it starts to be difficult to meet the overall objective.

It also seems that agreement is still no closer

Deputy Eamon Ryan: If it is not possible for both parties to reach agreement we will have to look at other alternatives. It will be up to the Broadcasting Authority of Ireland to do that. If it cannot succeed the Department will work with the BAI to make it happen.

Deputy Simon Coveney: For the first time the Minister has conceded that this process may not work out. If that happens the Minister says the BAI will be responsible for finding a way forward. I reject that. This is the Minister’s responsibility. It is his obligation to ensure that we can have analogue switch-off by the end of 2012. He should not try to transfer responsibility to the BAI.

Is it realistic to set a date for RTE to provide free-to-air digital terrestrial television, DTT, services in the absence of an agreement on commercial DTT, given the significant funding implications of free-to-air television? Why has the Minister decided to set a date for free-to-air DTT in the absence of an agreement, or even an understanding, of where we are in terms of commercial DTT? He knows one is reliant on the other.

Deputy Eamon Ryan: I do accept responsibility but my responsibility starts with letting the legislative process which has been put in place work. That lies with the BAI. I have supported the authority and will give it the room to do its work. If it fails and the process cannot be worked through, it will be back to myself and the Department to find a solution; and we will find one. While I understand Deputy Coveney’s argument that we should try to wait for the commercial process, I wanted to make it clear and certain that, come what may, we are switching off our analogue system. That was one of the reasons behind the decision to signal RTE to start switching on the transmission system, which is in place, at the end of October this year. We have already spent the significant volumes needed to put in the mast and other equipment.

Deputy Simon Coveney: There is a debt attached to that which must be repaid. It is €100 million.

Deputy Eamon Ryan: I wanted to give a clear signal to the suppliers and all concerned of our determination in terms of switch-off and the move towards whichever alternative system evolves in the coming months.