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Garda Reserve Experiences
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With all due respect guys, I don't think it makes any sense to have reserves take on extra training classes on weekends so that they can eventually go full time because the sheer amount of work that goes into training just simply wouldn't facilitate this. Full timers spend 40 hours a week training in Templemore for 20 weeks on Phase 1, 40+ hours on Phase 2 for 6 months and 40 hours a week for 12 weeks on Phase 3, all to prepare us for our roles as full time Gardai. It's a huge amount of work and while I can understand why a large number of reserves would like to join the full time force, I don't think weekend training sessions is the way forward and I can't see it happening that way to be honest. I don't doubt that reserves do a good job and that many would make great members of the full time force, I just don't think is the right way to go about it. I do think though that when it comes to selection for the full time, the fact that a person has served in the reserves should definitely stand to them during the selection process.0
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Those are very fair points but don't get me wrong - I don't think for one moment that such training blocks on their own could/should result in full-time status. I just think that they could be offset against later training requirements (although perhaps this would just complicate things) or else act as an incentive. One possibility might be to begin to pay reserves an allowance (like with the specials over in the UK) based on various levels of training they had undergone. And then, like you said, their experience in the reserves as well as their level of training in various laws, procedures, etc, could stand to them in the interview for the full-timers.northside girl wrote: »With all due respect guys, I don't think it makes any sense to have reserves take on extra training classes on weekends so that they can eventually go full time because the sheer amount of work that goes into training just simply wouldn't facilitate this. Full timers spend 40 hours a week training in Templemore for 20 weeks on Phase 1, 40+ hours on Phase 2 for 6 months and 40 hours a week for 12 weeks on Phase 3, all to prepare us for our roles as full time Gardai. It's a huge amount of work and while I can understand why a large number of reserves would like to join the full time force, I don't think weekend training sessions is the way forward and I can't see it happening that way to be honest. I don't doubt that reserves do a good job and that many would make great members of the full time force, I just don't think is the right way to go about it. I do think though that when it comes to selection for the full time, the fact that a person has served in the reserves should definitely stand to them during the selection process.0 -
northside girl wrote: »With all due respect guys, I don't think it makes any sense to have reserves take on extra training classes on weekends so that they can eventually go full time because the sheer amount of work that goes into training just simply wouldn't facilitate this. Full timers spend 40 hours a week training in Templemore for 20 weeks on Phase 1, 40+ hours on Phase 2 for 6 months and 40 hours a week for 12 weeks on Phase 3, all to prepare us for our roles as full time Gardai. It's a huge amount of work and while I can understand why a large number of reserves would like to join the full time force, I don't think weekend training sessions is the way forward and I can't see it happening that way to be honest. I don't doubt that reserves do a good job and that many would make great members of the full time force, I just don't think is the right way to go about it. I do think though that when it comes to selection for the full time, the fact that a person has served in the reserves should definitely stand to them during the selection process.
i would agree with northside on this because the full time do 2 years training and even after graduating they are still learning everyday from other people on units and what not this is because it is there job and they are professionals and i think that giving reserves weekend training so they can go full time is not they way to go as it would be only training on weekends and then back to day jobs during the week.. I don't doubt that reserves do a good job and that many would make great members of the full time force but i just also think that this method wouldnt work and couldnt happen..
On the other hand i believe that anyone that is in the reserves should have a higher prefernce when a applying because of the time the have put in and it clearly shows that they have an interest in AGS.0 -
northside girl wrote: »With all due respect guys, I don't think it makes any sense to have reserves take on extra training classes on weekends so that they can eventually go full time because the sheer amount of work that goes into training just simply wouldn't facilitate this. Full timers spend 40 hours a week training in Templemore for 20 weeks on Phase 1, 40+ hours on Phase 2 for 6 months and 40 hours a week for 12 weeks on Phase 3, all to prepare us for our roles as full time Gardai. It's a huge amount of work and while I can understand why a large number of reserves would like to join the full time force, I don't think weekend training sessions is the way forward and I can't see it happening that way to be honest. I don't doubt that reserves do a good job and that many would make great members of the full time force, I just don't think is the right way to go about it. I do think though that when it comes to selection for the full time, the fact that a person has served in the reserves should definitely stand to them during the selection process.
I do agree with what you say, but something has to change, maybe they shoould have taken a better look at the way the Specials in the Uk work, and that way they would see the difference.
But all we can do for now is wait and see what the Report of the Garda Síochána Inspectorate Summary of Recommendations come up with.
Recommendation 2
The Inspectorate recommends a review of the operation of the Garda Reserve for the purpose of better defining its role taking into account practical experience of its first three years in existence.0 -
I do agree with what you say, but something has to change, maybe they shoould have taken a better look at the way the Specials in the Uk work, and that way they would see the difference.
Once money starts flowing again and full time recruits start training again, you are going to see the Reserve diminish further.
It will change alright to a point where it is mandatory for potential new recruits to join the Reserves first and that will be the new direction of the reserves.0 -
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I'm listening wrote: »It will change alright to a point where it is mandatory for potential new recruits to join the Reserves first and that will be the new direction of the reserves.
Where are you getting that from? Nothing about this has been mentioned in either the depot or the college.0 -
I'm listening wrote: »Once money starts flowing again and full time recruits start training again, you are going to see the Reserve diminish further.
Deminish in what way that there will be no need for them, or what are you on about, If that is the case why did they start it up, it cost the state nothing to keep Reserves, apart form the initial training they receive, the rest of the time the Reserves give there time freely, so when the money does start flowing, which by the way the country is now will be a long time, there will be still plenty of room for them regardless. As there will always be a shortfall in numbers, thats the way i can see it anyway.0 -
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Im listening- i think your opinion is going to be an accurate enough one down the road. The Gardai is changing big time. It is becoming totally restructured i.e pepper spray, tasers in the pripeline e.t.c . I think Gardai in the past number of years have changed to a more academic police officer straying slightly from what is truely needed- the pure mule!! I think the Reserves is a true screening process for these mules that they need. The Garda inspectorate is a seriously intelligent woman who has brought about much needed changes in the force and i can see her incorporating the already partially trained reserve (age permitting id say) whom they have already invested scarce euros in and giving the oppurtunity to make the advancement into the permenant force through a process of exams screening etc. Dont forget they are already a rank in the gardai and are members so it would be a straight forward enough process. In our last recession the Irish army done a similar action of bringing Rdf's up to Pdf's many of whom were sent to the military police. Its hard to call really because all talks are going on behind water tight doors and no leaks are appearing at all but in my opinion and again this is only my opinion this would be one of the new surprises i would be expecting in the next to near future.0
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If you want to join the Gardai full time you should be able to meet the requirements of the recuitment campaign. If you are a reserve and you cannot pass the exam then you should not be there. If you cannot pass the medical you should not be there. If you cannot pass the training full time members do then you should not be there. Its a huge leap going from a reserve to a full time member. I know that from being a student Garda to suddenly becoming a probationer is a whole new ball game. With all due respect reserves have been trained in a basic role over weekends. Its easy fit someone out in a uniform and ask them to tag along with a full time member and act the part when the full time member has to make the decisions and do all the paperwork. Simply if people are good enough they should get in. The age limit is 35, I know reserves that have joined and best of luck to them. A reserve is a reserve.0
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Im listening- i think your opinion is going to be an accurate enough one down the road. The Gardai is changing big time. It is becoming totally restructured i.e pepper spray, tasers in the pripeline e.t.c .
Taser is nowhere near the pipeline for regular Gardaí.I think Gardai in the past number of years have changed to a more academic police officer straying slightly from what is truely needed- the pure mule!! I think the Reserves is a true screening process for these mules that they need.
The training process has been the same for the past 15 years at least, if you're trying to say that the college has been passing out the wrong kind of Garda for that amount of time you're off the mark. If you think that the reserve is a better training mechanism then you are even further off the mark.0 -
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A reserve is a reserve.[/QUOTE]
And a potential student!!0 -
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A reserve is a reserve.
I agree a reserve is a reserve, but its a rank of An Garda Siochana and there is no way of getting around that, they also come under the Garda Ombudsman should anything happen just like the full time member, they are now also intitled now to join any of the Garda Credit Unions as Members of An Garda Siochana, where before they where not so things are changing slowly, its like anything times have to move on, and i think any of the Reserves that give up their time freely, and commit to comming in at least 50 hrs or more a roster, is an asset to any station.
I know other Reserves cant commit to that, and im not trying to get at anyone with that its just an opinion i have, but at the end of the day would any full time member like to be on their own and something happen, or would they prefer to have another member with them regardles of their rank ???.
What people need to understand Garda Reserves when on duty are Gards regardless, a ranks is just like you have a rank of Sargent rank of Inspector at the end of the day they are all member of An Garda Siochana.
And this misconceptions of a reserve is a reserve needs to be take away, they do excactly the same duties as the ful time member, ok they dont have to do the paper work, or go to court, do posts, but im sure they would not mind doing that its just they are not allowed, if a row breaks out does the reserve member stand back and say thats his job ?? or does he get involved ?? if he or she gets a broken nose or other limb or even worse while trying to help his fellow member, is he doing his job as a garda ??.
At the end of the day all ranks from the bottom up to the top, are there to protect the public, and any member of An Garda Siochana that joins the force knows when they join the risk to life and limb, but they still take it, so for all the full time members out there, i ask give the Reserve members who are actively serving along side them on beat or whatever give them a chance, they are on your side after all.:)0 -
Brilliant post Zone Alarm,
I can only agree with you on all your points raised, Yes we are members of An Garda Siochana with a rank of Reserve Garda, and I would hope that any full time member who has a doubt about the role of a reserve officer will attempt to try and understand that we are there to assist them.0 -
I agree a reserve is a reserve, but its a rank of An Garda Siochana and there is no way of getting around that, they also come under the Garda Ombudsman should anything happen just like the full time member, they are now also intitled now to join any of the Garda Credit Unions as Members of An Garda Siochana, where before they where not so things are changing slowly, its like anything times have to move on, and i think any of the Reserves that give up their time freely, and commit to comming in at least 50 hrs or more a roster, is an asset to any station.
I know other Reserves cant commit to that, and im not trying to get at anyone with that its just an opinion i have, but at the end of the day would any full time member like to be on their own and something happen, or would they prefer to have another member with them regardles of their rank ???.
What people need to understand Garda Reserves when on duty are Gards regardless, a ranks is just like you have a rank of Sargent rank of Inspector at the end of the day they are all member of An Garda Siochana.
And this misconceptions of a reserve is a reserve needs to be take away, they do excactly the same duties as the ful time member, ok they dont have to do the paper work, or go to court, do posts, but im sure they would not mind doing that its just they are not allowed, if a row breaks out does the reserve member stand back and say thats his job ?? or does he get involved ?? if he or she gets a broken nose or other limb or even worse while trying to help his fellow member, is he doing his job as a garda ??.
At the end of the day all ranks from the bottom up to the top, are there to protect the public, and any member of An Garda Siochana that joins the force knows when they join the risk to life and limb, but they still take it, so for all the full time members out there, i ask give the Reserve members who are actively serving along side them on beat or whatever give them a chance, they are on your side after all.:)
If I were to walk in off the street to the station and make an allegation of assault or any other offence that requires investigation can you investigate it - No you can't. The government is looking for policing on the cheap and trying to fool the public who often dont know any better. We need more full time members who are fully trained with full powers. For people who have an intrest in the job and didnt get the chance to join or didnt get in then the reserve is a great chance to see what the job is like and I dont blame them for doing it and enjoying it. I dont blame them for wanting to go full time, but to think you can do a few extra weeks and become full time Garda is an insult to full time members.0 -
If I were to walk in off the street to the station and make an allegation of assault or any other offence that requires investigation can you investigate it - No you can't. The government is looking for policing on the cheap and trying to fool the public who often dont know any better. We need more full time members who are fully trained with full powers. For people who have an intrest in the job and didnt get the chance to join or didnt get in then the reserve is a great chance to see what the job is like and I dont blame them for doing it and enjoying it. I dont blame them for wanting to go full time, but to think you can do a few extra weeks and become full time Garda is an insult to full time members.
I dont think it would be a few extra weeks mate id say it would be more of a year plus process. Its more like an apprenticeship when ye think about it. Can an apprentice electrician certify an electrical connection in a house - NO but they were well involved in the installation that eventually led to the certificate if ye see what im saying. I dont think it would be an insult to many full time members- maybe a few that have had a brush with a few dodgy reserves or something but i think they will look at value for money at this stage because really there is no money. By the time a Student walks in to the collage and out the far side attested , accumulating all fuel, food , books ,wages uniforms e.t.c it costs just shy of 100,000 to train a garda and thats a fact. Imagine gettin 2 or even 3 for the price of one- thats the only reason id think they would consider it. When you consider all the screening has been done, send them up to do the full medical, do the proper physical, already familiar with pulse, half the law is already in their heads, offer them the same education as the students and there ye go all the ingredients ye need for a mule who is already partially programmed to the ways of the streets.Sure i suppose theyll never know until they try it. In my opinion it would make a good competitive phase. Suppose im only looking from an economists point of view though. And im not trying to insult any full time Gardai or current student Gardai they do a great job even when the government tore the shirts off their backs.0 -
If I were to walk in off the street to the station and make an allegation of assault or any other offence that requires investigation can you investigate it - No you can't. The government is looking for policing on the cheap and trying to fool the public who often dont know any better. We need more full time members who are fully trained with full powers. For people who have an intrest in the job and didnt get the chance to join or didnt get in then the reserve is a great chance to see what the job is like and I dont blame them for doing it and enjoying it. I dont blame them for wanting to go full time, but to think you can do a few extra weeks and become full time Garda is an insult to full time members.
Its like anything, the reserves are only a few years old and like all good things baby steps are required, who knows whats around the corner regarding powers ect, all anybody can do is wait and see.
Maybe they cant investigate, but after all that is a full time members paid job, thats not to say they more training ect and they could not do it, but what they can do is go out on weekends, and watch the other members back and him yours if something was to kick off, at least they would be there, while the other member is doing the investigation.0 -
I'd have to respectfully disagree here. Reserves are not the same as full time members - you can't carry out the same duties as full time members as bosco boy mentioned in an earlier post as Reserve powers are limited to certain Acts. There is a difference between reserves and full time members. To be honest, it is kind of insulting to have reserves compare themselves to full time members considering the amount of training that we undergo not to mention that this is our full time job and reserves only have to work 4+ hours on weekends.
And this misconceptions of a reserve is a reserve needs to be take away, they do excactly the same duties as the ful time member, ok they dont have to do the paper work, or go to court, do posts, but im sure they would not mind doing that its just they are not allowed, if a row breaks out does the reserve member stand back and say thats his job ?? or does he get involved ?? if he or she gets a broken nose or other limb or even worse while trying to help his fellow member, is he doing his job as a garda ??.
I have worked along side reserves, one in particular, that was very very good and I have no doubt that he'll make a great full time Garda one day. I understand that reserves are there to assist us but at the same time there is a difference.Brilliant post Zone Alarm,
I can only agree with you on all your points raised, Yes we are members of An Garda Siochana with a rank of Reserve Garda, and I would hope that any full time member who has a doubt about the role of a reserve officer will attempt to try and understand that we are there to assist them.
I don't really understand how this would work? Do you mean just have an intake consisting only of reserves? Otherwise they'd be receiving the same training as people with no reserve experience meaning everything would be learned from scratch. Also, that might also mean that there'd be two different types of training programs - one for reserves and one for people with no experience and I can't see them investing in 2 types of programs. We can't forget either that reserves have a different entry process to full timers. There is no aptitude test for reserves. I could see many people who failed the aptitude test joining the reserves to circumvent the entry process to get into the job. Before I joined I wanted to join the reserve to give me some experience to help me with my application but because of the job I was in I couldn't get time off to do the training so I had to scrap that. I think there are many, many people out there who want to join the full time just as much as reserves but can't get the chance to do it for whatever reason and I don't think these people deserve to get in any more or less than reserves.By the time a Student walks in to the collage and out the far side attested , accumulating all fuel, food , books ,wages uniforms e.t.c it costs just shy of 100,000 to train a garda and thats a fact. Imagine gettin 2 or even 3 for the price of one- thats the only reason id think they would consider it. When you consider all the screening has been done, send them up to do the full medical, do the proper physical, already familiar with pulse, half the law is already in their heads, offer them the same education as the students and there ye go all the ingredients ye need for a mule who is already partially programmed to the ways of the streets.Sure i suppose theyll never know until they try it. In my opinion it would make a good competitive phase. Suppose im only looking from an economists point of view though. And im not trying to insult any full time Gardai or current student Gardai they do a great job even when the government tore the shirts off their backs.
I hope I'm not coming across as anti-reserve because I'm not. I think reserves do a great job and I've had good experiences with them. I do hope that any reserves hoping to get into the full time are successful in that. I just don't think giving extra training on weekends or whatever is the way forward. In my opinion, I think reserves should have to do the aptitude test too and if successful then at stage 2 the fact that they're in the reserves should certainly help their application but I don't think the fact that somebody serves in the reserves should automatically give them the right to join the full time.0 -
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Its like anything, the reserves are only a few years old and like all good things baby steps are required, who knows whats around the corner regarding powers ect, all anybody can do is wait and see.
Maybe they cant investigate, but after all that is a full time members paid job, thats not to say they more training ect and they could not do it, but what they can do is go out on weekends, and watch the other members back and him yours if something was to kick off, at least they would be there, while the other member is doing the investigation.
Point taken, but what is being proposed by some people is that current reserve members be obsorbed into the full time force without fulltime training. "Words like 2 or 3 for the price of one" and "apprentice" worry me. Professionalism will suffer and we will pay dearly in the long run. Its about window dressing. If a reserve cannot apply for the full time force and meet the requirements then they should not get in full time, if they get in then both they and the job will benefit from their reserve experience. I have had some very good experience of reserves but they are not professional police they are part time police.0 -
northside girl wrote: »reserves only have to work 4+ hours on weekends.
Reserves are not restricted in the amount of hours they do, they could do 40 hrs a week if they wanted to, all they are required to do is minium of 208hrs a year but they are not restricted in any way to 4+hrs at weekend that is the Reserves choice if he or she only wants to do that.
I know of plenty of them that actually do a full duty with their respected units like in an 8 hr tour of duty working 3 weekend nights in a row, plus other rostered hours as well so not all reserves do 4 hrs at weekends.
I know your reply to this will prob be, i know they can do as many as they like, im jus saying that they dont have to do as much as the full timers, yes your right but the more hands on experience the better for them when they do get to apply for the full time.0 -
Point taken, but what is being proposed by some people is that current reserve members be obsorbed into the full time force without fulltime training. "Words like 2 or 3 for the price of one" and "apprentice" worry me. Professionalism will suffer and we will pay dearly in the long run. Its about window dressing. If a reserve cannot apply for the full time force and meet the requirements then they should not get in full time, if they get in then both they and the job will benefit from their reserve experience. I have had some very good experience of reserves but they are not professional police they are part time police.
Totally agree with you on that one
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Point taken, but what is being proposed by some people is that current reserve members be obsorbed into the full time force without fulltime training. "Words like 2 or 3 for the price of one" and "apprentice" worry me. Professionalism will suffer and we will pay dearly in the long run. Its about window dressing. If a reserve cannot apply for the full time force and meet the requirements then they should not get in full time, if they get in then both they and the job will benefit from their reserve experience. I have had some very good experience of reserves but they are not professional police they are part time police.
B/Boy you obviously cant see what im trying to say. Your taking the words i have used to discuss the topic out of context completely. I think there is greater things to be worried about than a few gramatical props i incorporated that you think will lead to a decline in ''professionalism''.
Who knows whats going to happen anyhow. Anything is possible at this stage- Lets not forget they delved into the reject lists during the boom times to fill classes in Templemore!0 -
B/Boy you obviously cant see what im trying to say. Your taking the words i have used to discuss the topic out of context completely. I think there is greater things to be worried about than a few gramatical props i incorporated that you think will lead to a decline in ''professionalism''.
Who knows whats going to happen anyhow. Anything is possible at this stage- Lets not forget they delved into the reject lists during the boom times to fill classes in Templemore!
When I joined 19,500 applied for 1,500 positions and it was well prior to the celtic tiger and similar to the current climate. For this reason I'm not going to be insulted by your comment. However your comment is in very poor taste and not befitting a member of the reserve if you are one. Maybe my point on professionalism is even more relevant now!0 -
I think this is gone a little of topic, we where discussing powers ect and the reserves, there is no need for it to get out of hand, after all its only a discussion, and everything we are talking about on here is purely speculation, nothing might ever come of it, or on the other hand it might but who knows, but its just a place to talk about experiences ect.
So lets not get all caught up in it as all it does is gets people annoyed and all caught up in things. I will leave it at this, as its prob due a rest any way, or some more input from others, and some fresh views on it.0 -
When I joined 19,500 applied for 1,500 positions and it was well prior to the celtic tiger and similar to the current climate. For this reason I'm not going to be insulted by your comment. However your comment is in very poor taste and not befitting a member of the reserve if you are one. Maybe my point on professionalism is even more relevant now!
Ah here i think your a touch sensitive now. Im not trying to insult anyone, thats not why im writing in here, im here to talk about a topic. I in no way meant that you or anyone else speaking here was rejected and then accepted. My point being it happened which i was using it as a foundation to my origianal point of ''god knows what could happen''.
I think you are going slightly ott with the professionalism remarks.0 -
I think this is gone a little of topic, we where discussing powers ect and the reserves, there is no need for it to get out of hand, after all its only a discussion, and everything we are talking about on here is purely speculation, nothing might ever come of it, or on the other hand it might but who knows, but its just a place to talk about experiences ect.
So lets not get all caught up in it as all it does is gets people annoyed and all caught up in things. I will leave it at this, as its prob due a rest any way, or some more input from others, and some fresh views on it.
Well said.0 -
im jus saying that they dont have to do as much as the full timers, yes your right but the more hands on experience the better for them when they do get to apply for the full time.
I agree with you on this point. For people who are intending on joining the full time, I can certainly understand why they would want to take on extra tours and more power to them if they're willing the put the hours in.0 -
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With all due respect to any fulltime member.
I completly disagree that a reserve should not be prefrence over a normal member of the public just because they pass an alptitude test??.
When the next drive eventually opens up your going to get every joe soap applying that never had an interest in joining in his life and trust me many people that are joining for all the wrong reasons will slip through the net AND will take many reserves places that have been given there free time for a couple of years all because they done better on a test?
In my opinion thats ridiculous.
And i myself do not see the reserves as a back way in i see it as a stepping stone and realise i (we) will have to go through the same process as everybody else.
Why not give prefrence to somebody they know has the drive for the job and can do the job good than take a risk on somebody that performed well on a test and in interview?0
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