When did it become ok to joke about rape?

furiousox · 10-01-2010 4:06pm

mikeystipey wrote: »

'twas Tommy Tiernan who made the rape jokes fashionable

Tommy Tiernan?
He used to be a comedian didn't he?

PurpleLadybird · 10-01-2010 4:17pm

drkpower wrote: »

Have you been raped?
If not, do you think you would find them hilarious if you had been?
Do you know what the approximate number of Irish women who have been raped is, and therefore do you know the odds, when telling a hilarious rape joke to 3 women, what the chances are that one of them has been raped?
In such a scenario, do you think that that women needs to 'relax her haunches'?

Obviously, if you were the victim of rape or sexual assault, you would not find anything surrounding the use of the word "rape" funny, that's a given.

On the other hand, I have to confess, I have laughed at similar jokes, and then felt guilty, knowing what bad taste they were in. I think that people like to push the boundaries and see how far they can take a topic. Of course, some people will laugh and some will not, that's your personal feeling.

This might be controversial, but I think making jokes about situations such as these has a certain value in that it inevitably becomes less taboo. Less taboo ultimately means that victims of such crimes can hopefully find it easier to talk about their experience and come forward. If talked about regularly, even if brought into the conversation by a joke, it can start discussion on the topic.

As long as it's only a joke in nature, distasteful though it is, it won't take away from how wrong the act is, it will just bring it out of its taboo status.

Ultimately, unless you're sure of the opinion of the company you are in, you should avoid making this kind of joke, you'll only feel bad once you've offended someone.

pikachucheeks · 10-01-2010 4:26pm

mikeystipey wrote: »

'twas Tommy Tiernan who made the rape jokes fashionable

One could argue he also made jokes about disabled people "fashionable".

You only have to look at his career now to understand how well those kind of jokes went down with the majority of people.

furiousox wrote: »

Tommy Tiernan?
He used to be a comedian didn't he?

Fighting Irish · 10-01-2010 4:40pm

imo you can laugh at any subject matter, everything can be funny

Silverfish · 10-01-2010 4:44pm

Fighting Irish wrote: »

imo you can laugh at any subject matter, everything can be funny

So you don't think there might be a time or a place that they may be inapproprate or potentially hurtful?

scanlas · 10-01-2010 4:55pm

Thaedydal wrote: »

Murder is less likely to happen to a person in this country then rape/sexual assault is.
Clearly if a person is alive they were not murdered so the term of expression is clearly far removed from the act, rape is not as clear cut at all.

I think you are backwards rationalizing with the likelihood of rape or murder. In my opinion I would prefer to be raped than murdered so I think murder is worse than rape. I think you don't like rape being used as a joke because it doesn't FEEL right, then you think of reasons afterwards where its wrong. Murder being used as a joke doesn't FEEL wrong so you think of reasons why it's not wrong in contrast to rape jokes. IMO any jokes that aren't funny are wrong even if they are innocent in nature.

pikachucheeks · 10-01-2010 5:36pm

scanlas wrote: »

MO any jokes that aren't funny are wrong even if they are innocent in nature.

If a joke isn't funny, it's failing to be a joke, by it's own definition.

A joke is "something said or done to evoke laughter or amusement"

But surely, whether something is funny or not, is entirely subjective? Therefore, "wrong" is also defined by personal opinion.

Interesting how you mention "innocent in nature" because looking at the nature of things such as rape and murder, they're as far removed from innocence as you can get.

Some people will find it funny, to poke fun at taboo, sensitive issues like rape. Other people will find it tasteless. It's about gauging the company you're in and your own sense of humour.

Joycey · 10-01-2010 6:05pm

Herbal Deity wrote: »

I think it lessens the taboo around the term. Jokes about rape indicate that the idea that rape is a very real occurrance has entered the public mindset. It's no longer something that's never, ever mentioned.

The famous Tommy Tiernan defence

Edit: heh i see his name came up already

Raze_them_all · 10-01-2010 6:08pm

Jessibelle wrote: »

I may be reacting in an over-sensitive manner to this, so thought I'd throw it out to boardsies for opinions, but when did it become ok to joke about rape?
I've noticed recently, particularly with people I work with that would say be maybe 5-6 years younger than me, that they'd say something jokingly like 'God, she was so hot I could have raped her there and then' or 'If I was left alone with him i would have raped him'
Now it bothers me, and enough so that I've said it a few times that I'd rather they didn't joke like that around me, and if it occurs, usually I just leave or ignore it, but tbh, I can't see the humour in it at all. Am I just being an old fuddy at 29?

That's not a rape joke, that's just basically saying he'd sell his left nut to get up on her.

I'd put up rape jokes but that'd be frowned upon!

Silverfish · 10-01-2010 6:22pm

Raze_them_all wrote: »

That's not a rape joke, that's just basically saying he'd sell his left nut to get up on her.

I don't think anyone didn't understand what he meant by it, I think the issue is with the statement itself.

Jessibelle · 10-01-2010 6:26pm

Raze_them_all wrote: »

That's not a rape joke, that's just basically saying he'd sell his left nut to get up on her.

Then why not say it like that instead? Why say 'rape' in a jesting type of way at all? I agree, that everyones sense of humour is different, and that any taboo surrounding the word 'rape' should be removed. But I really think using it like this trivialises the impact of it.

Shelga · 10-01-2010 6:38pm

I can't say for certain that I will never ever find a joke that uses the word 'rape' funny. For example, I can think of the first time I saw Jimmy Carr doing stand up and he made a joke about eating an apple.... (don't know if I'm allowed mention the full version here) and I burst out laughing. I remember him saying something in an interview like "People hear a joke, laugh, THEN feel guilty. If your initial instinct was to laugh then isn't that the correct one?"

It's all about context, context, context. I don't find the likes of "she's so hot, I'd rape her" amusing at all, or dead baby jokes etc. And obviously I would never use the term rape lightly in front of people I didn't know extremely well. (in fact I don't think I've ever used it lightly, but just as an example). But in certain situations and depending on how the joke is worded, it can be ok.

I just think you can't say every single joke involving the word rape is unfunny/inappropriate, when there are so many ways and contexts in which it can be used.

spinandscribble · 10-01-2010 6:40pm

PurpleLadybird wrote: »

Obviously, if you were the victim of rape or sexual assault, you would not find anything surrounding the use of the word "rape" funny, that's a given.

Just would like to add that that is not a given. I was unaware someone who is now a friend had been the survivor of rape and told her rape jokes one evening. shes happy to hear them and encourages me (even though I since dont find them very funny) because at the end of the day she wants to feel "normal" and see the humour in everything. Granted she is of course not the average rape survivor but in some cases i think like in her's, she feels it helps. Similar to people who battled depression coming out the other end making jokes.

We should never enforce these jokes on survivors but if they want the jokes made, i'll make them if it'll help. Rare as it may be and i'm aware that that is the case.

sparkling sea · 10-01-2010 7:09pm

spinandscribble wrote: »

Just would like to add that that is not a given. I was unaware someone who is now a friend had been the survivor of rape and told her rape jokes one evening. shes happy to hear them and encourages me (even though I since dont find them very funny) because at the end of the day she wants to feel "normal" and see the humour in everything. Granted she is of course not the average rape survivor but in some cases i think like in her's, she feels it helps. Similar to people who battled depression coming out the other end making jokes.

We should never enforce these jokes on survivors but if they want the jokes made, i'll make them if it'll help. Rare as it may be and i'm aware that that is the case.

'Isn't that what you did enforce a joke on a survivor - I know - you didn't realise, maybe people should wear a sign, just in case they are accidently offended. Or maybe people should resist the urge to joke about rape just in case they accidently offend, you know, little bit of humanity.

How do you gauge what is or isn't an average rape survivor - perhaps by joking about rape, yeah that would be a good guide, very scientific

Just a thought, perhaps your friend didn't want to make you feel uncomfortable after the fact, if joking about rape is "normal" to you.

spinandscribble · 10-01-2010 8:13pm

sparkling sea wrote: »

'Isn't that what you did enforce a joke on a survivor - I know - you didn't realise, maybe people should wear a sign, just in case they are accidently offended. Or maybe people should resist the urge to joke about rape just in case they accidently offend, you know, little bit of humanity.

How do you gauge what is or isn't an average rape survivor - perhaps by joking about rape, yeah that would be a good guide, very scientific

Just a thought, perhaps your friend didn't want to make you feel uncomfortable after the fact, if joking about rape is "normal" to you.

I didnt tell my friend i thought it was normal.

i said i dont make those jokes anymore.

I never claimed to be scientific either.

I assume it isn't the typical thing for survivors to laugh at those jokes, a assumption that i think most people would make.

I might have thought my friend was trying to make me feel better but i know my friend.

her annoyance when i stopped making those jokes around her because she felt she didnt have someone that didnt treat her like a piece of glass anymore, was very clear and mentioned on a number of occassions.

like i said, its rare when a survivor can laugh at those jokes, very rare, but like everything nothing is absolute.

I was just lending my only experience to this thread and I am entitled to that without someone having a sarcastic go at me. I was only trying to say there were times when it honestly helped her (according to her), i can't explain why and either can you tell me she was lying.

tudlytops · 10-01-2010 9:01pm

"Granted she is of course not the average rape survivor but in some cases i think like in her's, she feels it helps. Similar to people who battled depression coming out the other end making jokes."

What is the average rape survivor?

What do they look or act like?

Do you think you could tell if someone had been raped?

Maybe your friend just doesn't want to be different, treated different it doesn't mean she likes the jokes, even if she laughs doesn't mean she likes the jokes.

I mean if a group of friends are out and one starts rape jokes and there is a rape victim that may not want others to know she is a rape victim, what is she suppose to do? only thing she can do is pretend she finds it funny.

scanlas · 10-01-2010 9:53pm

pikachucheeks wrote: »

If a joke isn't funny, it's failing to be a joke, by it's own definition.

A joke is "something said or done to evoke laughter or amusement"

But surely, whether something is funny or not, is entirely subjective? Therefore, "wrong" is also defined by personal opinion.

Interesting how you mention "innocent in nature" because looking at the nature of things such as rape and murder, they're as far removed from innocence as you can get.

Some people will find it funny, to poke fun at taboo, sensitive issues like rape. Other people will find it tasteless. It's about gauging the company you're in and your own sense of humour.

Humour is subjective and so are morals. I didn't say rape and murder are innocent in nature. I said IMO a joke that is not funny is wrong even if it's innocent in nature.

I've noticed in the past few years more people joke about incest too. I wonder what made that OK.

Handsome Bob · 10-01-2010 10:21pm

Silverfish wrote: »

I don't think it's something that should be joked about unless you're very aware of the company you're in, or with friends that you know won't be upset or take offence.

Sexual assault has happened to one in five women in Ireland. They aren't going to tell every single person they meet what happened, perhaps even friends or family. So unless you're pretty sure that nothing like that has happened to someone you know, then I personally would be careful, as the chances are, you could be bringing up horrible memories or dismissing their suffering.

Some people may tell cancer jokes, but probably not to cancer patients. Some people may tell dead baby jokes, but probably not to people who have just lost a child. I don't see how rape jokes are any different, the only difference is it'll be harder to tell. So it requires a bit of social awareness and tact.

Indeed, it's important to know your audience. The lack of social awareness and tact from people who should know better would get to me. What I mean is, if a friend of mine who knew me well, made a joke about cancer it would upset me. I wouldn't say anything, drama is not my thing, but my estimations of them as a person would be lowered. I imagine, for those who have been either directly or indirectly affected by rape, that the situation would be the same. People are allowed to say what they want, but at the same time, they have to be willing to accept the consequences of what they say.

spinandscribble · 10-01-2010 10:36pm

tudlytops wrote: »

"Granted she is of course not the average rape survivor but in some cases i think like in her's, she feels it helps. Similar to people who battled depression coming out the other end making jokes."

What is the average rape survivor?

What do they look or act like?

Do you think you could tell if someone had been raped?

Please stop putting words in my mouth, i think it was quite clear I meant average by the fact she encouraged such jokes considering the reaction rape jokes generally have with those affected by rape. (judging by what i've read online since coming across this thread)

Maybe your friend just doesn't want to be different, treated different it doesn't mean she likes the jokes, even if she laughs doesn't mean she likes the jokes.

Maybe i shouldn't put words in her mouth and i should take her at her word instead of using preconceived ideas of how she SHOULD react because of her past and act on those?

I mean if a group of friends are out and one starts rape jokes and there is a rape victim that may not want others to know she is a rape victim, what is she suppose to do? only thing she can do is pretend she finds it funny.

The reason it was brought to my attention of her experience is the other friends present were horrified i told her the joke, unaware of my ignorance of her past. She laughed her ass off at their faces. I think you're reading far too much into my posts and as you do not know my friend you cannot second guess what type of person she is.

She's one of the strongest people i know and trust me speaks her mind. The very thought of her pretending to be ok and pretending to laugh is laughable because she's not the type of person to pretend. even if it'll hurt she'll let you know what she thinks and one of the reasons i admire her so much is that if she confronts her problems head on.

Is it really impossible to believe she thinks (if we take her at her word and i do because i know her) you need to see the humour in everything and laugh otherwise you'll never be able to smile about anything?

Or do we HAVE to believe she's somehow too weak to show her true feeling or too nice to say she finds something offensive just because its "wrong" that she could laugh at such a joke?

AGAIN i'm not saying rape jokes are funny but just expressing my experience and my friends views as shes directly affected and shares a different view to some posters here.

I would never find jokes about suicide, alcoholism funny but again someone else might. These subjects affect me but at the same time i don't believe those laughing at these jokes are scum, they just dont share the same experience as me.

if someone knew i was affected by those jokes and still told them, then that would be different i'd be annoyed.

Novella · 10-01-2010 10:50pm

PurpleLadybird wrote: »

This might be controversial, but I think making jokes about situations such as these has a certain value in that it inevitably becomes less taboo. Less taboo ultimately means that victims of such crimes can hopefully find it easier to talk about their experience and come forward. If talked about regularly, even if brought into the conversation by a joke, it can start discussion on the topic.

I don't think joking about rape is going to make any victims of it feel more secure in admitting that it has happened to them and seeking help. If anything, it belittles the seriousness of the crime and perhaps only isolates the victims, making them feel that they are blowing things outta proportion.

shivvyban · 11-01-2010 9:27am

I won't lie to you and I''ll proabably get a load os slack for this but I joke about in the same way I joke about anything else that serious. That's my way of handling the topic. I can read situations very well and therefore I feel I know my audience and know when or when to make jokes.

Joking is my way of handling such things...

This is a topic I'm not comfortable with in serious coversation but I respect all those who don't or do joke about it. Thats my two cents and I shall bow out gracefully now...

sparkling sea · 11-01-2010 5:43pm

spinandscribble wrote: »

Please stop putting words in my mouth, i think it was quite clear I meant average by the fact she encouraged such jokes considering the reaction rape jokes generally have with those affected by rape. (judging by what i've read online since coming across this thread)

Maybe i shouldn't put words in her mouth and i should take her at her word instead of using preconceived ideas of how she SHOULD react because of her past and act on those?

The reason it was brought to my attention of her experience is the other friends present were horrified i told her the joke, unaware of my ignorance of her past. She laughed her ass off at their faces. I think you're reading far too much into my posts and as you do not know my friend you cannot second guess what type of person she is.

She's one of the strongest people i know and trust me speaks her mind. The very thought of her pretending to be ok and pretending to laugh is laughable because she's not the type of person to pretend. even if it'll hurt she'll let you know what she thinks and one of the reasons i admire her so much is that if she confronts her problems head on.

Is it really impossible to believe she thinks (if we take her at her word and i do because i know her) you need to see the humour in everything and laugh otherwise you'll never be able to smile about anything?

Or do we HAVE to believe she's somehow too weak to show her true feeling or too nice to say she finds something offensive just because its "wrong" that she could laugh at such a joke?

AGAIN i'm not saying rape jokes are funny but just expressing my experience and my friends views as shes directly affected and shares a different view to some posters here.

I would never find jokes about suicide, alcoholism funny but again someone else might. These subjects affect me but at the same time i don't believe those laughing at these jokes are scum, they just dont share the same experience as me.

if someone knew i was affected by those jokes and still told them, then that would be different i'd be annoyed.

Or maybe you should just give things a little bit more thought, but I suppose if you are as certain in your ability to read people as you think then maybe you don't.

Jessibelle · 11-01-2010 9:40pm

sparkling sea wrote: »

Or maybe you should just give things a little bit more thought, but I suppose if you are as certain in your ability to read people as you think then maybe you don't.

He doesn't need to be able to read his friend, she herself told him she was ok with it. As the OP on this topic, I appreciate that everyone has many and different opinions on this, as I already stated, I myself am not comfortable with rape jokes, but if the posters friend has said to him, in spite of her own situation, that she is ok with it, then it is up to her to tell him if she feels uncomfortable with what he says, not us. Please don't think I'm attacking you personally Sparkling Sea, I appreciate your views, but Spinandscribble has explained himself quite clearly, and I don't think he deserves a going over just because he's sharing his experience.

spinandscribble · 12-01-2010 12:05am

sparkling sea wrote: »

Or maybe you should just give things a little bit more thought, but I suppose if you are as certain in your ability to read people as you think then maybe you don't.

*sigh*

Did you even read my post?
I took her at her word, I didn't assume anything, after a long discussion I believe her.

I've worked as a care worker for teens who have been through the most horrible trauma in their lives. Its amazing what will make people laugh.

I can't believe its so utterly inconceivable to take what she says seriously. But her reaction isn't expected of a rape victim so I MUST be wrong.

Since you don't know her and I do, I'm finishing posting on this matter.

edit- thanks jess for hearing me out, and hun i'm a gal

Jessibelle · 12-01-2010 12:26am

spinandscribble wrote: »

*sigh*
edit- thanks jess for hearing me out, and hun i'm a gal

Dammit! Boards gender confusion strikes again

Mr. Presentable · 12-01-2010 10:37am

Did you read that another
Oakland woman was raped?

I was nowhere near Oakland!

- Do they know who did it?
- No idea. He must be very clever.

You must be on the ball to rape
so many women and get away with it.

If anybody tried to rape me,
I'd just pretend to go along with it

and then grab a heavy object
and let him have it.

That is unless I was enjoying it.

They say it's every woman's
secret desire.

I guess it depends on
who's doing the raping.

Why dwell on morbid subjects?
Odds are you'll never get raped.

Not with my luck.

Play it again, Sam (1972)

Taggart: I got it! I got it!
Hedley Lamarr: You do?
Taggart: We'll work up a Number 6 on 'em.
Hedley Lamarr: [frowns] "Number 6"? I'm afraid I'm not familiar with that one.
Taggart: Well, that's where we go a-ridin' into town, a-whompin' and a-whumpin' every livin' thing that moves within an inch of its life. Except the women folks, of course.
Hedley Lamarr: You spare the women?
Taggart: Naw, we rape the **** out of them at the Number Six Dance later on.
Hedley Lamarr: Marvelous!

Blazing Saddles (1974)

While it may seem commonplace now to joke about such things, you'd never get away with what went on in the movies in the 1970s nowadays, so perhaps things are better than you think.

12-01-2010 2:11pm

drkpower wrote: »

Have you been raped?
If not, do you think you would find them hilarious if you had been?
Do you know what the approximate number of Irish women who have been raped is, and therefore do you know the odds, when telling a hilarious rape joke to 3 women, what the chances are that one of them has been raped?
In such a scenario, do you think that that women needs to 'relax her haunches'?

No, but I have had some very bad experiences that I've learned to laugh at. If you don't learn to get over these things and move on it'll kill you. Allowing something like that to take over your life to the point where years later you can't even take a joke only gives them power over you. By treating a rapist or any kind of abuser as a subject of fear you're playing right into their hand

Silverfish · 12-01-2010 2:17pm

Deleted User wrote: »

No, but I have had some very bad experiences that I've learned to laugh at. If you don't learn to get over these things and move on it'll kill you. Allowing something like that to take over your life to the point where years later you can't even take a joke only gives them power over you. By treating a rapist or any kind of abuser as a subject of fear you're playing right into their hand

Just in your opinion, how soon after an attack would you say a victim should be laughing or making jokes about it? Would it be before or after she reported it? Do you think it would affect whether she was taken seriously by the guards or in a courtroom? Would you say it would send a message to other people that hey, she was raped and seems to be grand about it, sure rapes not that bad?

It's not that I don't see where you're coming from, but I am quite curious as to how you're so sure that it won't have any negative effect whatsoever.

Piste · 13-01-2010 1:32am

People use far more horrific words casually all the time, like "I could murder a steak right now" "she ripped me to shreads over borrowing her shoes" etc. and nobody really bats an eyelid at them, so I think using "rape" as a hyperbolic word is ok.

Blacey · 13-01-2010 1:32am

It's not ok. These type of jokes just contribute to rape culture. When we hear jokes like this we have to call people on it, no matter if we are afraid we'll get called overly sensitive or whatever. Rape isn't funny, and it isn't funny to joke about it.

When did it become ok to joke about rape?

Comments