Prostitution

11-12-2009 04:02PM

Tori Prickly Landlady wrote: »

I took a breather, and yes, its still retarded.

:rolleyes:

lindseyhigcol · 15-12-2009 08:57PM

I totally agree with you that it is wrong, although at the same time I know that there are people out there that do it, and for whatever reason they don't have a problem with it( the people selling I mean), some enjoy, find it empowering and independent.But there is a large number of people like you say that are forced into this, from be it a dependence on drugs, financial situations and of course being drugged and kidnapped and forced out of there home country.

At the end of the day, it is usually men that pay for this services although I am not toatlly knaive that I don't think women do to, but lets be hnest men are the main customer. Maybe all the bravado among your work colleagues is just making themselves feel better.

I am lucky that I am with someone a bit like yourself , he finds it vile.
I do not claim to be an innocent or anything like it,
I don't judge people for going to a prostitute AS LONG as they are all consenting adults. Then thats their business.

But it worries me that this isn't always the case and that is why it disgusts me.

Think the likes of Confessions of a London Call girl glamorise this kind of lifestyle

15-12-2009 09:43PM

lindseyhigcol wrote: »

I don't judge people for going to a prostitute AS LONG as they are all consenting adults. Then thats their business.

But it worries me that this isn't always the case and that is why it disgusts me.

I don't quite get what you mean here... are you suggesting that minors are involved in prostitution in Ireland? Either those going as customers, or those in the industry themselves...

And this is the only reason prostitution disgusts you, because minors might be involved?

lindseyhigcol · 16-12-2009 01:36PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't quite get what you mean here... are you suggesting that minors are involved in prostitution in Ireland? Either those going as customers, or those in the industry themselves...

And this is the only reason prostitution disgusts you, because minors might be involved?

I am suggesting that minors are involved both as customers and in the industry.Do you not think that there aren't boys (majority) under 18 going with their mates to see a prostitute?Or a girl/boy in their teens addicted to some subtance that are selling themselves?Do you really think we live in that innocent a society in Ireland anymore?

It isn't the only reason it disgusts me either, I am merely saying I cannot personally stop people from doing it or going to see prostitutes. But as long as it is a consenting adult and not either an adult that is forced into it or a child then live and let live.

I personally think the whole lot is vile,in terms of letting someone be with you for money, but it is the oldest profession in the world and sadly there will always be a market for it.
I think it's very sad that people out there feel its the only way for them. But I would not judge a person that does it.I have not lived their life, although I must confess I can't say I wouldn't judge someone who goes to a prostitute, that sounds stupid I know but I don't know if I could be that empathethic.They are the reason that these people are selling themselves because there is always a buyer.

16-12-2009 06:50PM

lindseyhigcol wrote: »

I am suggesting that minors are involved both as customers and in the industry.Do you not think that there aren't boys (majority) under 18 going with their mates to see a prostitute?

I don't think its likely either because of the cost involved, or the fear/nervousness involved. I was still getting nervous going to them at 30, so I can't imagine too many under 18s actually going through with it.

Or a girl/boy in their teens addicted to some subtance that are selling themselves?Do you really think we live in that innocent a society in Ireland anymore?

Anymore? Its been part of the industry going back forever that some of those under 18 can get caught up in the industry. I'm just wondering how common it is..

It isn't the only reason it disgusts me either, I am merely saying I cannot personally stop people from doing it or going to see prostitutes. But as long as it is a consenting adult and not either an adult that is forced into it or a child then live and let live.

I personally think the whole lot is vile,in terms of letting someone be with you for money, but it is the oldest profession in the world and sadly there will always be a market for it.

I can never understand why people who are against prostitution in all its forms post like this. Its almost as if you want to appear fair about the subject, and then throw in the judgment. I'm not really knocking your stance. You can think its vile.. no problem there. I just don't see why you want to dress it up as anything else.

They are the reason that these people are selling themselves because there is always a buyer.

People sell themselves all the time. This is just the more obvious and socially unacceptable one. It doesn't matter about there being buyers. Creating a supply will generally generate a demand on its own, especially when it comes to sex.

Jibberjab · 16-12-2009 07:13PM

What about those premium rate phone lines which are advertised every night on TV3. I know that these are innocent enough compared to the ones on some of the satellite channels.

I believe that many of these may be used by prostitutes and that once they get hold of the idiots that ring them that they can offer other services or suggest phone numbers for them to call.

Has anyone ever investigated them does anyone know ??

Jibberjab · 16-12-2009 07:15PM

The thing about prostitutes is that many of them are drug addicts and are HIV positive - they are only doing this to feed their drug habit. Young men availing of their services are putting their health at huge risk.

lindseyhigcol · 16-12-2009 07:34PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't think its likely either because of the cost involved, or the fear/nervousness involved. I was still getting nervous going to them at 30, so I can't imagine too many under 18s actually going through with it.

Anymore? Its been part of the industry going back forever that some of those under 18 can get caught up in the industry. I'm just wondering how common it is..

I can never understand why people who are against prostitution in all its forms post like this. Its almost as if you want to appear fair about the subject, and then throw in the judgment. I'm not really knocking your stance. You can think its vile.. no problem there. I just don't see why you want to dress it up as anything else.

People sell themselves all the time. This is just the more obvious and socially unacceptable one. It doesn't matter about there being buyers. Creating a supply will generally generate a demand on its own, especially when it comes to sex.

You make alot of good points.
But not everyone is the same. Granted you may find it sometimes nervy when you do, but there is lads out there in their teens, that's lets face it, we've all passed Jack the lad on a street corner with his mates, and when they are in company, they can seem to have alot of confidence. I was just thinking out loud. I would assume that there would be lads that would go in their teens.

You are right that it goes back very far in time.I think it is more widespread than we would think.

I am not against prostitution in all its forms, I am against it when it involves people that are forced or coerced into it, and when it involves children. I obviously don't know what it's like to go to one, so maybe I shouldn't be making a comment on it. I just know that it is something I wouldn't like to do myself. I don't think I would have a problem with being with someone who had been with a prostitute, in terms of the act of sex, but I think I would have a problem with the fact that they paid for it.I dunno.

I also think it's ignorant to see on here, not from you but from earlier posts that all prostitutes are addicts and hiv positive. That has got to be the most ridiculous thing I have ever read.

Anyway, I just thought you made some good points. I suppose not everything is black and white.
Who am I to judge? I'm not that innocent.

Jibberjab · 16-12-2009 07:47PM

I said many, not all - read it again !!! This is a fact !! Many are !!

lindseyhigcol · 16-12-2009 08:05PM

Jibberjab wrote: »

I said many, not all - read it again !!! This is a fact !! Many are !!

Apologies. My point was more about the statement that they are drug addicts and hiv. All, many , majority.....the effect is the same. You cannot possibly make a statement about a large number of any group.It is common of some of the prostitutes in Amsterdam for example are health screened every couple of months or whatever the time required is. I am not deluded saying that there isn't a high number of people out there that do have disease and drug addiction problems.But I do think that just because somebody is involved in prostitution doesn't mean that drug addiction and hiv go hand in hand with it.
But obviously being in that position you are more open to infection.But so are any of the people that go out on a weekend and sleep with randomers.

Jibberjab · 16-12-2009 10:10PM

OK well I do apologise - what I should have said was some - and I know that for a fact that some are, but I definitely did not say all.

1sittingduck · 30-12-2009 07:44PM

Call me out of touch, but the involvement of money in something as intimate as sex immediately degrades the act. I'm certainly no angel either, but paying for/selling sex is not something to be proud of and I agree wholeheartedly with the OP. It's not a high horse: it's dignity.

97i9y3941 · 30-12-2009 07:46PM

1sittingduck wrote: »

Call me out of touch, but the involvement of money in something as intimate as sex immediately degrades the act. I'm certainly no angel either, but paying for/selling sex is not something to be proud of and I agree wholeheartedly with the OP. It's not a high horse: it's dignity.

thats one way at looking at it,way i see it the gov makes money from drinking,cigs,gambleing so taxing and leagaliseing it like germany/holland would give them some revenue,we not holy ireland anymore people are still going to go abroad for it..

JohnK · 30-12-2009 08:06PM

1sittingduck wrote: »

Call me out of touch, but the involvement of money in something as intimate as sex immediately degrades the act. I'm certainly no angel either, but paying for/selling sex is not something to be proud of and I agree wholeheartedly with the OP. It's not a high horse: it's dignity.

Dignity? Seriously? So you're saying its more dignified to go out to a club, get absolutely f****d out of your mind on drink then fall in the door with some totally random stranger for a shag without even knowing her name? I'm trying here but for the life of me I just cant see the "dignity" in that.

1sittingduck · 30-12-2009 08:18PM

JohnK wrote: »

Dignity? Seriously? So you're saying its more dignified to go out to a club, get absolutely f****d out of your mind on drink then fall in the door with some totally random stranger for a shag without even knowing her name? I'm trying here but for the life of me I just cant see the "dignity" in that.

I don't see any dignity in that either and I never said I did.

By the way, I think it's only fair that I tell you I'm not a guy but a girl in her early 20s, currently studying for a Masters, and a practicing Catholic. Not here to shove my faith down your (or anyone else's) throat; just giving my perspective.

JohnK · 30-12-2009 08:25PM

1sittingduck wrote: »

I don't see any dignity in that either and I never said I did.

Fair enough I wasn't trying to imply that you did - I was more trying to point out that in this day and age there is often (and I'd stress often, not always) very little dignity involved in sex so using that as a reason to continue the demonization of prostitution is a bit unfair in my opinion.

30-12-2009 11:32PM

1sittingduck wrote: »

I don't see any dignity in that either and I never said I did.

The point is that in these times Sex doesn't really mean all that much to a lot of people. Its been advertised to death. People nowadays have complete access to material about sex and can watch it happen at the click of a button. It has no real mystery about it anymore. Now, making love is completely different, but nobody expects that from being with a prostitute.

You call it degrading regarding an intimate act, well, I would agree with you except that most sex that singles experience isn't all that intimate. Its with an almost complete stranger perhaps on the first or second date. Someone has just bought you dinner, a few drinks, and a taxi home, and sex becomes acceptable. There's very little difference in a lot of modern dating and paying for sex. And thats without counting in pickups in Nightclubs which another poster mentioned. At least with prostitution you're not worried about being stalked afterwards.

By the way, I think it's only fair that I tell you I'm not a guy but a girl in her early 20s, currently studying for a Masters, and a practicing Catholic. Not here to shove my faith down your (or anyone else's) throat; just giving my perspective.

I don't really see why you needed to state the whole Masters, and practicing Catholic gig. Can't see any relevance. Personal perspective is highly encouraged...

1sittingduck · 01-01-2010 01:55AM

JohnK wrote: »

Fair enough I wasn't trying to imply that you did - I was more trying to point out that in this day and age there is often (and I'd stress often, not always) very little dignity involved in sex so using that as a reason to continue the demonization of prostitution is a bit unfair in my opinion.

I understand...sounds fair enough.

1sittingduck · 01-01-2010 02:04AM

Deleted User wrote: »

The point is that in these times Sex doesn't really mean all that much to a lot of people. Its been advertised to death. People nowadays have complete access to material about sex and can watch it happen at the click of a button. It has no real mystery about it anymore. Now, making love is completely different, but nobody expects that from being with a prostitute.

You call it degrading regarding an intimate act, well, I would agree with you except that most sex that singles experience isn't all that intimate. Its with an almost complete stranger perhaps on the first or second date. Someone has just bought you dinner, a few drinks, and a taxi home, and sex becomes acceptable. There's very little difference in a lot of modern dating and paying for sex. And thats without counting in pickups in Nightclubs which another poster mentioned. At least with prostitution you're not worried about being stalked afterwards.

That's true...it's still not the best decision to make, but you're dead right on that one.

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't really see why you needed to state the whole Masters, and practicing Catholic gig. Can't see any relevance. Personal perspective is highly encouraged...

I just thought it might be good to give a bit of background so everyone could see my slant on things...even though of course I am not limited to my formal education and religion, of course. The Masters I included in a weak attempt to show that I'm not ignorant...though, tbh, I am in some ways. But that's another discussion for another time.

Thanks for your patience!

01-01-2010 11:21AM

1sittingduck wrote: »

That's true...it's still not the best decision to make, but you're dead right on that one.

Its still not the best decision? How do you know? The fact is until someone has done something for themselves they're not going to know if it was worth it or not. Let me put it this way, every interaction with the opposite sex has the potential to go disastrously wrong. I'm not saying that prostitution is any better, just that it has the same potential, until a person has decided which decision to make.

Sure, the benefits of other interactions have a higher potential but so too do the risks. For many people who do not want either the higher benefits or risks, prostitution is the better option.

For myself, i was involved when i was younger but my life has changed along with my decisions in life. But I can remember and appreciate the usefulness of prostitution as an alternative to the crapfest of being single in the western world. (Yes, it took living in Asia to get past this hangup)

1sittingduck · 03-01-2010 01:27AM

Deleted User wrote: »

For myself, i was involved when i was younger but my life has changed along with my decisions in life. But I can remember and appreciate the usefulness of prostitution as an alternative to the crapfest of being single in the western world. (Yes, it took living in Asia to get past this hangup)

Being single isn't the best feeling ever. Still, I would feel really upset if my boyfriend/partner/husband had gone to a prostitute even if it was before we met or started going out. Is that a subjective thing? Maybe so. But I wouldn't like it to happen to anyone else either.

03-01-2010 02:24AM

1sittingduck wrote: »

Being single isn't the best feeling ever. Still, I would feel really upset if my boyfriend/partner/husband had gone to a prostitute even if it was before we met or started going out. Is that a subjective thing? Maybe so. But I wouldn't like it to happen to anyone else either.

So you're one of these people who quiz their partner on every person they've ever slept with, and factor that into how you feel? Oh come on, previous sexual experience has no bearing on a current relationship. Personally, I'm a lot more concerned with an existing relationship to wonder what my partner got up to before they met me. I've dated strippers who I know have sold themselves in the past (and probably still do it the odd time), and I didn't care one bit about their previous habits. I was more interested in them, and how they made me feel. As long as they were faithful to me during our relationship nothing before mattered. Frankly, being so concerned about a partners past is ridiculous in my eyes.

panda100 · 03-01-2010 06:30PM

Deleted User wrote: »

The point is that in these times Sex doesn't really mean all that much to a lot of people. Its been advertised to death. People nowadays have complete access to material about sex and can watch it happen at the click of a button. It has no real mystery about it anymore. Now, making love is completely different, but nobody expects that from being with a prostitute.

Its not 'sex' that has been advertised to death but women as sex objects.

03-01-2010 06:46PM

panda100 wrote: »

Its not 'sex' that has been advertised to death but women as sex objects.

Not only women, but also men. There's plenty of advertising, movies, fashion etc which seeks to objectify men. :rolleyes: And it is sex that sells in advertising.. And just about everything else.

panda100 · 03-01-2010 07:03PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Not only women, but also men. There's plenty of advertising, movies, fashion etc which seeks to objectify men. :rolleyes: And it is sex that sells in advertising.. And just about everything else.

No, not to the same extent as women. It is not 'sex' that is eveywhere these days but pornography. The two are very different.

The 'sex' that is used to sell is a mindnumbingly bland transaction of a cartoonish and stereotpical view of women as sex objects. Sex in real life is incredibly varied with many forms of both male and female sexuality. People have all types of turn on's with erotica being about respect,equality and mutuality. Female masturbation,for example is a massive part of sex and female sexual enjoyment when was the last time you saw that trying to advertise something?

The 'sex' that is used to sell is the view of sex pushed upon men from an early age of what they should be turned on by,and keeping men as the voyeur and consumer of women as sex object. Giving everyone in society a warped view of what sex is.

03-01-2010 07:21PM

panda100 wrote: »

No, not to the same extent as women. It is not 'sex' that is eveywhere these days but pornography. The two are very different.

Actually, sex is everywhere... turn on the tv, switch channels, and watch the adverts. Its not pornography its sexual themes. And men are casted quite a it in them. Equality of the sexes is here. :rolleyes:

The 'sex' that is used to sell is a mindnumbingly bland transaction of a cartoonish and stereotpical view of women as sex objects. Sex in real life is incredibly varied with many forms of both male and female sexuality. People have all types of turn on's with erotica being about respect,equality and mutuality.

Are we talking porn or advertising here? Are we talking about them being directed at men, women or both?

As for the variety involved in actual sex, you're preaching to the converted.

Female masturbation,for example is a massive part of sex and female sexual enjoyment when was the last time you saw that trying to advertise something?

I can't remember.. I've seen a few ads on the continent with women moaning their pleasure in eating chocolate or icecream.. does that count?

The 'sex' that is used to sell is the view of sex pushed upon men from an early age of what they should be turned on by,and keeping men as the voyeur and consumer of women as sex object. Giving everyone in society a warped view of what sex is.

err, and your point is? And you don't think women are thrown similar images and perspective from the various programs aimed at them?

In any case, I think you're going off point. This is about sex and prostitution. Not advertising, porn, or the social influences on sexual experimentation.

Black Magic · 03-01-2010 07:27PM

DadaKopf wrote: »

You might like to read this.

I wouldn't listen to a woman like that views. I'd say she'd have been desperate for the escorts!

AARRRGH · 03-01-2010 07:55PM

Some people take Dworkin seriously. :eek:

The reality is she just an angry bitter woman who has confused her own issues with women's rights.

panda100 · 03-01-2010 07:58PM

Deleted User wrote: »

In any case, I think you're going off point. This is about sex and prostitution. Not advertising, porn, or the social influences on sexual experimentation.

It has everything to do with prostitution because mainstream pornography aka womens bodies being used to sell things, is moulding our conceptions of what sex is.
Heterosexual male sexuality is placed above everyone elses sexuality and forced upon us all of us from birth. We are led to believe that (hetero)men are sexually dominant and that male sexuality is uncontrollable, superseding female sexuality.

With prostiution women have little or no control over what sex acts they perform and they place male pleasure over their own, it speaks volumes about our societys atititude to gender equality and sex, and it is a seriously warped repressed attitude.

AARRRGH · 03-01-2010 08:01PM

panda100 wrote: »

Giving everyone in society a warped view of what sex is.

Having a romantic opinion of sex is warped.

Look at the animal kindom. The male sees the female as something he can have sex with and possibly produce children with. He doesn't see it as some sort of Hugh Grant movie.

The reality is we are animals who have invented loads of nonsense such as romance being the norm, and unemotional sex as wrong.

I would agree with you overall that society does push women as sex objects, and men as leaders or those in control, but that isn't very far off what is really going on in the world.

But I think this might be a different topic.

Prostitution

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