Speeder's get 3 months

netwhizkid · 02-11-2009 2:00am

Jail for speeding (200k

??) on an empty motorway by a Judge called Zaidan??? I hope that guy closes his business and leaves of his 20 staff and leaves Ireland to give this country the treatment it deserves.

Jail for this sort of an offense is surely unconstitutional and when you look at real criminals getting away scott free and the likes of Sean Fitzpatrick who single handedly destroyed the Irish economy walking free is a disgrace.

Before I would go to jail especially by a foreign Judge; I'm sorry but in Ireland I think the judgement of our people should be left to the Irish and not to Lebanese Arabs. This sounds like something Hezbollah would enforce, what next will this guy be doing, forcing female convicts to wear the Burkha? This and jailing a 19 year old kid who was caught humping his 16year old GF shows that country is moving ever closer to a Leftwing dictatorship.

200kms, oh thats 3 months jail, murder, oh a year or two, plenty money and oppurtunity to sue the state afterwards for mucking out. :mad::mad::mad:

bazzachazza · 02-11-2009 2:18am

Jail for speeding (200k??) on an empty motorway

Where does it say the motorway was empty ?

Drummerboy08 · 02-11-2009 2:22am

To all of you who disagree with the sentence - my girlfriend attended the funeral of a girl who was involved in an RTA 4 years ago. She survived the crash, but suffered brain damage. Shortly before this incident, the OH's sister was involved in a similar RTA - not speed related, but relevant all the same - and she too has an aquired brain injury.

This girl who died this week, has required constant looking after for the last three years. She's been in a wheelchair for alot of it, prone to very, very violent outbursts to member's of her family, and in all, not a shadow of the person she once was. It's believed that she took a fit, which caused a massive brain haemorrage, leading to her sad, untimely death. She was in her mid twenties.

Mt girlfriends sister is in a very similar position. Prone to agressive outbursts towards her mother, father, her two sisters, and anyone else who she deems to be on her wrong side (including me on the odd occasion). I wont say that I know how her family feels, but I have seen and felt the emotion, and sights from the day after her accident.

I was allowed into the ICU ward very briefly after a few days to visit her, and it was not a pretty sight. Very bruised, wires and tubes everywhere. She was in a coma for 2 weeks. When she came around, she didnt recognise any of her family, couldnt speak, walk, eat, pretty much couldnt do anything.

Weeks in hospital later, she made massive progress, but to this day, she will never be that person again. She has a tube which runs from her brain to her liver which takes excess fluid from the brain to prevent swelling. This is a permanment fixture. It is also not internal. Graphic, eh?

She spent 2/3 months in the National rehab centre in Dun Laoghaire, learning to walk, look after herself, etc. She then spent a further 6 months in a care centre in Clonmel.

Now, I'd like to stress that neither of the above accidents were caused by excess speed (we think), but are a very good reminder to me of the dangers caused by every day driving. One was simply going home from work, the other from a night out.

To all of you who believe that the jail sentence is harsh - I beg you to spend an hour walking the corridors of the rehab centre in Dun Laoghaire. The sights I saw in there will stay with me for life, and have reminded me to slow down every time I tip over the limit. These sights may make you reconsider your thoughts regarding these cases. I beg you to speak to a family affected by an RTA - they will tell you that they would do any thing to have their son or daughter back.

Now I havent read the entire thread, but I think anyone who does 200kmph on a motorway, National road, or whatever, deserves everything they get.

Its a bloody stupid speed to be doing, regardless of the road being empty or not, and not one of you can defend it. Ireland does not have an autobahn. Each road has a set limit, and although I'm no angel, I do try to stick as close as I can to them.

If these people were made to see the consequences of such stupid endagerment of themselves and others, I would be 99% positive they wouldnt do it again.

It is fcuking fantastic to see a Judge finally applying the full letter of the law to these clowns. I hope to see it more often. Hopefully these cases will send out the message that the majority of Irish motorists would like to stay alive, and as such, do not welcome these kind of d1ckheads on the road. Hopefully these two drivers will see the error of their ways after spending three months in prison.

netwhizkid · 02-11-2009 2:38am

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

To all of you who disagree with the sentence - my girlfriend attended the funeral of a girl who was involved in an RTA 4 years ago. She survived the crash, but suffered brain damage. Shortly before this incident, the OH's sister was involved in a similar RTA - not speed related, but relevant all the same - and she too has an aquired brain injury.......

I have also been to the Sisters of Mercy rehab in Dun Laoighaire, I have friends who spent time there and were in a fatal car crash. Car crashes devastate families yes, however I also think that there are families devastated by having their loved ones incarcerated for a motoring offense, many people who have killed others in RTA's have received more lenient sentences. What people need to remember is a Motorway is not your average backroad where it is ok to poodle along at 40MPH, Motorways are designed for speed and efficient movement of people and goods.

I would bet that these lads were statistically safer at 200km/h on that motorway than I would be doing 100km/h on any National Secondary Route or Regional Road. to jail them and ban them for 4 years is total overkill, if they were DUI (far worse offense) they'd have got a 2 year ban, no jail and maybe a €500 t0 €700 fine.

This judge has shown he is not fit to be a Judge and should be removed from practising. What he done is a disgrace and if he wanted to make an issue of road safety he should head back to Donegal with a portable car crusher and crush the majority of tincans that are killing young people up there and raise the Driving age to 19 in Donegal, this would have a far higher effect on road deaths than making examples of guys who had proper cars going for a Scorch on a Motorway. German Autobahns are Motorways too except your average German knows alot more about driving than here and as a result speed limits are not as necessary.

Motorways are the safest form of roads and this guys has ruined the lives of these men, 4 years without a car in Siberia *cough* Ireland and a prison sentence that will make travelling outside the EU hard work. This judge is a disgrace and should be sent back to the Lebanon where his equals would come in handy.

fischer · 02-11-2009 2:47am

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

Now, I'd like to stress that neither of the above accidents were caused by excess speed (we think)...

...To all of you who believe that the jail sentence is harsh - I beg you to spend an hour walking the corridors of the rehab centre in Dun Laoghaire. The sights I saw in there will stay with me for life, and have reminded me to slow down every time I tip over the limit.

...Ireland does not have an autobahn. Each road has a set limit, and although I'm no angel, I do try to stick as close as I can to them.

Drummerboy, I've cropped the above from your post for breviety only. I hope you are okay with that but I'll edit my post if you feel it misrepresents what you said.

Yes, accidents are pretty horrible. Car accidents are especially horrible as the human body seldom triumphs against physics. But the incidents you describe are not speed related and could have been just as bad on the rugby field or bike v car door. Hard cases make bad law.

What troubles me more about your post is your acceptance of speed limits as an indication of safety. That if you are below a set limit, you are in some way dramatically reducing your risk of having a serious accident.

I realise I'm probably being unfair to you, picking on a post like this but I'll do it to serve my purpose - the single-minded demonisation of speed is training drivers to follow that aspect of law and that aspect only. A reading of your post could be interpreted as saying that you stick to the limit, regardless of rain, fog, road surface etc. I'm sure you are smarter than that but an increasing number of Irish drivers are not. All the messages to them indicate that so long as you are sober and not speeding, you are covered.

As for the original context of the thread - no, I don't think mandatory jail time is helpful for a non-violent crime that by definition was detected prior to any harm. Would I favour early release of a person convicted of common assault to enable prisons accomodate these people? Hell, no. A shoplifter? Still no.

While its a tired old drum, I'd favour very short driving bans in the order of two weeks or two months for speeding offences instead of fines or points. That is, in the context of a traffic policing regime that actually measured road safety rather than adherence to a narrow set of targets.

Fischer.

Drummerboy08 · 02-11-2009 3:36am

The point of the post is to point out the consequences of that kind of driving - I say driving, not speed - to some people who may not actually realise it.

There is no excuse for it, regardless. Those drivers could have caused untold pain to someone else, nevermind themselves. 200kph is double the speed limit at certain spots on that road. It's only right that they get punished for it, and a clear message is sent out.

I also accept that you are not safe at or below the speed limit. But at double it?

Its a stupid speed to be doing. I think every one in here can accept that? These people have now been punished for it. They'll appeal it, and get a reduced sentence - more than likely a heavy fine and a driving ban. I'd doubt that they will ever see the inside of Mountjoy tbh.

But I bet it scares the sh1t out of em, and almost guarantee that they wont do it again.

gyppo · 02-11-2009 9:09am

MYOB wrote: »

People should never be expecting traffic to be doing the same speeds as they are, no matter what the limits on a road are.

FFS, you could just as easily say that people should never be expecting traffic to be doing twice the posted speed limit either.

OldmanMondeo · 02-11-2009 10:30am

unkel wrote: »

Fair play? Jail sentences? :eek:

Maybe he should go back to the cave in Donegal he came from. I don't know the circumstances but doing 200km/h on an empty motorway in good weather conditions is not necessarily dangerous.

Please point out where in the article it says the road was empty? The M7 is one of the busiest roads in the country and is rare to see empty. Fair play to the judge.

Any one who thinks it is smart or safe to drive at nearly twice the motorway limit needs to cop on and get off the roads.

bazzachazza · 02-11-2009 10:44am

I asked the same question of UNKEL page 1 post 10, still waiting on an answer. I see though that a load of people thanked him instead.

unkel wrote: »

Fair play? Jail sentences? :eek:

Maybe he should go back to the cave in Donegal he came from. I don't know the circumstances but doing 200km/h on an empty motorway in good weather conditions is not necessarily dangerous.

unkel wrote: »

I don't know the circumstances but doing 200km/h on an empty motorway in good weather conditions

What a contradictory post !!!

and of

netwhizkid page 15 post 212, still waiting on an answer.

netwhizkid wrote: »

Jail for speeding (200k??) on an empty motorway by a Judge called Zaidan???

Apparently it was a lovely day as well and absolutely perfect driving conditions, well for driving at 126.1 mph.

Lets not get facts in the way of a good post eh.

stealthyspeeder · 02-11-2009 10:46am

Anybody who thinks that someone doing 125 mph on a motorway should go to jail for three months, should go to a dragstrip, or a racetrack in a car capable of doing these speeds and see an feel for themselves just how wild and out of control this feels!:rolleyes:

ok ok if you regualrly drive some sh'tbox that feels like its about to fall to bits or explode once it gets to 90mph, you could be forgiven for your opinion, but some cars can cruise at 3,000 rpm in 6th of 7th gear at 125 mph!

Emotive descriptions of aftermaths of accidents dont change the fact that what has happened here, is a car has gone fast on a road designed for fast driving and exceeded an arbitary number with no violence or injury caused to anyone.

Jail for this, is over the top, and anyone who has driven at that speed in a a performance car will understand that this draconian view can only be held by people who have not had the same motoring experience.

TestTransmission · 02-11-2009 10:54am

netwhizkid wrote: »

Jail for this sort of an offense is surely unconstitutional and when you look at real criminals getting away scott free and the likes of Sean Fitzpatrick who single handedly destroyed the Irish economy walking free is a disgrace.

netwhizkid wrote: »

and raise the Driving age to 19 in Donegal, t

Contradict much?

Mr. Presentable · 02-11-2009 10:55am

MarkN wrote: »

Couple of things - nobody here is really saying being caught doing that speed in this country is the best thing possible but the complete Hitlers coming out with "he got off lightly" are really bordering on insane. Someone's life could effectively be RUINED by going to prison, will you think about it for one bloody minute?? A PRISON sentence with rapists, murderers and paedophiles all because you stretched a cars legs and COULD'VE but DIDN'T harm anyone else. If you caused injury then fine the sentence is justified and I'd be the first to say that but Jesus Christ lads will you cop on for a minute, someone going to prison when they drove at 120mph give or take is just so wrong on so many levels. I know for one my career would be over certainly for the short to medium term if I were put in prison. Have a sped? Many times. Am I a criminal that deserves locking up? Will you get real. Good luck to all the defendants in their appeals, I hope they get away with points and a fine and let it be a lesson to them.

MarkN, you need to read the OP. The drivers were not prosecuted for speeding. Dangerous driving.

bazzachazza · 02-11-2009 10:55am

stealthyspeeder wrote: »

Jail for this, is over the top, and anyone who has driven at that speed in a a performance car will understand that this draconian view can only be held by people who have not had the same motoring experience.

I agree with you. Jail and ruining their lives in this case is not called for. I'm consistent with that from my first post. I have driven at 125mph again it was in Germany, I know what it feels like. I would not though have liked to experience ANY unusual event at this speed.

Gone Drinking · 02-11-2009 11:21am

Would anyone here be saying they shouldn't have gotten jail, had their mother/sister/brother/father/child been in a car that one of these two collided with? I think not..

People in Ireland need to learn the hard way, its sad, but they do.

gyppo · 02-11-2009 11:40am

stealthyspeeder wrote: »

Emotive descriptions of aftermaths of accidents dont change the fact that what has happened here, is a car has gone fast on a road designed for fast driving and exceeded an arbitary number with no violence or injury caused to anyone (this time).

Fixed for you.

stealthyspeeder · 02-11-2009 11:46am

Gone Drinking wrote: »

Would anyone here be saying they shouldn't have gotten jail, had their mother/sister/brother/father/child been in a car that one of these two collided with?

I dont think these people who are going to jail collided with anyone.

If they had collided with someone and there was an injury (which there most probably would be) then they should go to jail. But if someone is doing the legal 120km/h on a motorway and they collide with someone, there is going to be carnage as well and if you cause an accident which reulsts in injury or worse to someone else within the speed limit you should go to jail.

But for just the speed on its own, its really far too harsh.

stealthyspeeder · 02-11-2009 11:53am

gyppo wrote: »

Fixed for you.

If you add "this time" onto any circumstance you can make it sound more dangerous.

What actually happened is a world apart from the millions of hypothetical situations that an imagination can fathom, however what really happened is as I described. Jail is not hypothetical either, its very real and will destroy that persons life, career possibly family, for what?? a potential unrealised hypothetical notion of danger.

Far too harsh. The punishment does NOT fit the crime.

Gone Drinking · 02-11-2009 12:04pm

stealthyspeeder wrote: »

I dont think these people who are going to jail collided with anyone.

If they had collided with someone and there was an injury (which there most probably would be) then they should go to jail. But if someone is doing the legal 120km/h on a motorway and they collide with someone, there is going to be carnage as well and if you cause an accident which reulsts in injury or worse to someone else within the speed limit you should go to jail.

But for just the speed on its own, its really far too harsh.

Would you not think its easier to lose control of a car if you're doing 200 as apposed to 120? They've done the numbers, speed is the main reason behind most accidents..

Why should someone have to be hurt, or killed before people get jail time? 3 months as the judge said is nothing compared to a life time of hurt for a family, or rehab for a victim..

People need to learn, they aren't learning, people are still needlessly dying and maybe this might get people to cop on abit.

pburns · 02-11-2009 12:10pm

I dunno, I laboured long and hard in the thread about the new 50mg alcohol limit. In a nutshell my arguement would be for stricter enforcement of the traditional 80mg limit. However with the ever-more limited resources in law enforcement, it's easier to just introduce a new law that will placate the Irish Times-reading middle classes and divert attention away from all the other **** that's going on! It's also a feather in their cap come election time, never mind that the decline in road deaths is caused by other factors.

That is a digression however and I'm pretty sure many people would have mixed and differing views on the issues of drink/driving and speed.... There are similarities however. In both cases an arbitary figure is set and transgression of that figure is met with a penalty. Fair enough, I don't think any right-minded individual could take issue with that.

However I am becoming ever more deeply concerned that the 'arbitary' figures in question are being set ever-lower and that the penalties for exceeding these set limits ever higher.

To digress again for a moment, I remember having an argument with a friend of mine over the smoking ban. Neither of us are smokers but personally I was all for it, convinced by the statistics on passive smoking and (rather selfishly) delighted I could enjoy a night out without reeking of stale smoke the next day.

Now I'm not so sure... I see it as the thin edge of the wedge, the beginning of a major shift in our society where any element of risk - no matter how small or unsubstantiated or miniscule is quashed by ever more zealous rules, regulation and legislation.

Now 125mph on an Irish motorway is bloody dangerous and chances are the road wasn't empty - as I understand it, it was around 8.00pm on a weekday(?). Of couse there should be a sanction - a hefty fine, a couple of months of the road..

But JAIL:eek::eek:!!! 4 years driving ban:eek: (an imprisonment in itself). I mean seriously, all those in favour - what freaking planet are ye from??? Apart from long-winded emotive dribblings and a few thumbs-ups from some usual suspects, I see no logical arguments put forward to support such draconion penalties. I mean it's not like our prison and judicial system is not stretched to over-capacity as it is by REAL criminals who frequently make a mockery of the system. And yes, I realise these cases will probably be successfully appealed but what does this do but clog up the courts even more. Of course the judge in question is making a name for himself which will no doubt reinforce his vanity:rolleyes:. I think that's the real nub of these latest rulings...

stealthyspeeder · 02-11-2009 12:15pm

Gone Drinking wrote: »

Would you not think its easier to lose control of a car if you're doing 200 as apposed to 120? They've done the numbers, speed is the main reason behind most accidents..

Why should someone have to be hurt, or killed before people get jail time? 3 months as the judge said is nothing compared to a life time of hurt for a family, or rehab for a victim..

People need to learn, they aren't learning, people are still needlessly dying and maybe this might get people to cop on abit.

Losing control of a car may be easier at 200 than 120, however the fact than you can lose control of a car at 120 invalidates the arguement that 200 is deserving of jailtime. If you lost control while under an arbitary limit, the same effects would occur on the affected parties, the number would have no bearing. That is the difference, looking at what actually occured as oppposed to what could have. Nobody was actually affected by the speeder doing 200 on the motorway, nobodies family was grieving because he did 200 on the motorway. Yet he is going to Jail, which is not fitting given what he has actually done.

They have also done the numbers and less accidents per car travelling on the road occur on motorways thatn any other type of road.

People can die within the speed limits and it does not make the suffering of families any less. But if someone speeds, and nobody is afected, its just not right that their life is ruined.

BlackWizard · 02-11-2009 1:07pm

This news piece has done more for my driving habits than any other speeding kills campaign. I didn't go past 170kph all weekend because of it.

8pm doing the speed he was doing he deserved a harsh punishment. But I'd worry that this hardline will be taken by those of us who regularly are doing 150kph cruising on the M7, M1 etc when we get caught.

Shires · 02-11-2009 1:10pm

Gone Drinking wrote: »

They've done the numbers, speed is the main reason behind most accidents

It's difficult to crash a stationary vehicle alright.

I put it to you that most collisions (accident, what's that?) are caused by inattention, incapacitation and/or misjudgment of risk. Speed is just another risk factor, one that can be easily measured in isolation just like blood alcohol content or age.

I.S.T. · 02-11-2009 1:15pm

I couldn't help noticing the foreign names of all those sent to jail:
Antonio Morelli
Ceprail Birgin
Shaqo Laska

So the question is is there a problem with foreign national drivers and speeding or does the judge have a problem with foreign nationals breaking the law?

Three months in jail for speeding is a joke. They should be sent on a speed awareness course and banned from driving. People get less for attempted murder.

Tigger · 02-11-2009 1:51pm

unkel wrote: »

Fair play? Jail sentences? :eek:

Maybe he should go back to the cave in Donegal he came from. I don't know the circumstances but doing 200km/h on an empty motorway in good weather conditions is not necessarily dangerous.

it is if there is a cop on it

Drummerboy08 · 02-11-2009 2:11pm

stealthyspeeder wrote: »

Emotive descriptions of aftermaths of accidents dont change the fact that what has happened here, is a car has gone fast on a road designed for fast driving and exceeded an arbitary number with no violence or injury caused to anyone.

I dont think that any road in Ireland was designed with speed in mind, let alone the M7.

Its regularly patrolled by the Traffic Corps, in rain the water doesnt clear off the road fast enough, and it has maximum speed limits of 100kph in some spots.

I'd say that road was designed with traffic flow in mind more than speed.

Either way, It doesnt excuse doing a speed like that - clear road or not.

But as I said, I'd seriously doubt that these people will ever spend a day inside prison. They'll appeal it, get a heavy fine and a driving ban. But i'd be willing to bet they wont do it again.

TheNog · 02-11-2009 2:17pm

IrishSpeedTraps wrote: »

I couldn't help noticing the foreign names of all those sent to jail:
Antonio Morelli
Ceprail Birgin
Shaqo Laska

So the question is is there a problem with foreign national drivers and speeding or does the judge have a problem with foreign nationals breaking the law?

Not forgetting the name Judge Desmond Zaidan from Lebanon

MarkN · 02-11-2009 2:29pm

nipplenuts wrote: »

MarkN, you need to read the OP. The drivers were not prosecuted for speeding. Dangerous driving.

I'm well aware what they were convicted of, the post you quoted me in was at the lunatics saying throw away the key and the (sensible) posters also saying 'come on lads this is high speed, how can you defend it' - nobody is really saying it is perfectly safe to do the speed in this country but the people like myself saying 'wait a minute' are just saying a custodial sentence when they didn't cause an accident is unfair.

I was in a car accident this year where the guy driving lost control and flipped the bloody car and yeh he COULD have killed me/us but DIDN'T he hardly deserves to go to prison for his actions - these guys in the thread did less!!!

stealthyspeeder · 02-11-2009 2:57pm

on the days when these guys were caught speeding

The May one - no rainfall, average temp of over 20 degrees and im not sure about sunset times (8pm 28th May would that still be daylight?) but I would imagine visabilty would not be hindered with cloud or fog.
http://www.met.ie/climate/monthly_summarys/may09.pdf

Checking out the other 2 briefly, there was a bit of rain when the German in the Astra was caught (who was probably used to driving on Autobahns), and the 3rd guy had no rain (and he was caught at 1am in the morning when the road would have been deserted)

OldmanMondeo · 02-11-2009 3:08pm

I think what everyone should remember is that these guys will probably only serve a day or 2, due to overcrowding and that is only if the lose their appeal.

Drummerboy08 · 02-11-2009 3:10pm

stealthyspeeder wrote: »

on the days when these guys were caught speeding

The May one - no rainfall, average temp of over 20 degrees and im not sure about sunset times (8pm 28th May would that still be daylight?) but I would imagine visabilty would not be hindered with cloud or fog.
http://www.met.ie/climate/monthly_summarys/may09.pdf

Checking out the other 2 briefly, there was a bit of rain when the German in the Astra was caught (who was probably used to driving on Autobahns), and the 3rd guy had no rain (and he was caught at 1am in the morning when the road would have been deserted)

So, what your saying is that if the weather is good, and visability is great, we all can and should do 200kph? That argument is redundant Ric and you know it. It might have been safe for a properly trained, professional driver, with alot of experience, to do that speed in these conditions, but was it safe for a cowboy in a Fiat Coupe and an Opel Astra to do it? I dont think so.

Does it still excuse the fact that it was almost twice the speed limit, and stupidly illegal? I dont think so either.

I can see your argument - clear road (we think), good conditions (we think) and a big road, but it still doesnt make it right.

Speeder's get 3 months

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