Speeder's get 3 months

bop1977

http://www.leinsterleader.ie/news/Judge-Zaidan-loses-his-cool.5772638.jp

:eek:

JAIL sentences were last week handed down to three men in separate cases for travelling at speeds approaching 200km/h on Kildare's roads.
Local district court judge Desmond Zaidan described the speeds in the cases before him at Naas and Kildare District Courts as some of the worst he had ever seen in his career as a judge.

He said the the speeds were "suicidal". And in a warning to ADVERTISEMENT Kildare road users from the bench, he said that the message had to go out that such speeding wouldn't be tolerated.

Commenting in court on the spate of cases, Judge Zaidan said: "This redefines the word dangerous. So many people have lost their lives as a result of speed."

He told one driver that he could have been "driving his own coffin. This is madness".

He was commenting in the case of Antonio Morelli of 48 Main Street, Tipperary. Mr Morelli was clocked doing 203 km/h on the northbound lane of the M7 motorway at Cherryville, Kildare on May 28 last. The motorway is a 120km/h zone

He appeared before the court on a dangerous driving charge.

The court heard that Mr Morelli's two-litre red Fiat Coupe had been stopped by gardai at 8.10pm in the evening.

Mr Morelli, a retailer who employs over 20 people in Tipperary, had been on his way to a medical appointment in Dublin to treat his bowel condition, according to a letter from his doctor handed in to the court. His journey had been delayed by frequent toilet stops along the way and he was rushing to make his appointment.

His defence solicitor Conal Boyce said that Mr Morelli's car was "built for speed".

Commenting on the case, Judge Zaidan referred to his time as a judge in Donegal, which has a notorious speeding problem. He questioned what was the problem on Kildare roads.

He said: "I was in Donegal as a judge for some time and the worst speed I came across was 175 km/h.

"It is just not on. I do not have to wait for an accident to happen. The court does not have to wait for another human to lose their life on the roads, with serious consequences for their family."

Convicting and handing down a three-month custodial sentence to Mr Morelli, he told him he was the author of his own misfortune.

He told the defendant that he would go about his life after he came out of prison, while those who had been maimed because of accidents on the roads would be affected forever.

He also fined the defendant E2,000 and disqualified him from driving for four years. Recognisances of his own bond of E750 and an independent surety of E2,500 were fixed for appeal, and later in the court sitting a business colleague of Mr Morelli's was approved as a surety.

In a separate case also heard at Kildare District Court last Thursday, Ceprail Birgin, 25, of 4 the Willows, Abbeywoods, Clane, was given three months in custody for speeding at 192 km/h on August 31 last. Mr Birgin was not in court.

The offence occurred at 7.07pm in the evening, when Mr Birgin, driving a '00 Opel Astra, was stopped by gardai in the north-bound lane of the motorway at Monasterevin, a 120km/h zone.

Garda evidence said that the defendant, who was co-operative when stopped, produced a German driving licence and apologised profusely at the time. He was also disqualified from driving for three years and fined E2,000.

In a case heard at Naas District Court the previous day Judge Desmond Zaidan said he could not believe his ears when told that on July 27 last at 1.28am in Kill West, Kosovan chef Shaqo Laska was detected driving his black Mercedes car at 190 km/h.

The court heard that a garda, who was giving evidence, was on motorcycle patrol that night and followed the defendant who has an address listed as 86 Langrishe Rise, Summerhill, Dublin 1 onto the M7 and stopped him at Osberstown, approximately two miles later. He jailed the defendant for three months, banned him from driving for four years and fined him E2,000.

"The message has to go out there – enough is enough. Life is precious. If you maim someone, it's a life sentence. So three months is nothing."

Judge Zaidan fixed recognisances in the event of an appeal

Our man in Havana

Fair play to the Judge for taking some positive action against speeders.

roosterman71

Proper order

unkel

Fair play? Jail sentences? :eek:

Maybe he should go back to the cave in Donegal he came from. I don't know the circumstances but doing 200km/h on an empty motorway in good weather conditions is not necessarily dangerous.

mobby

Fair play great to see at last something been done, may but more then likely not slow some people down.

ninty9er

There's more merit in a mass protest against this backward thinking of people like Justice Zaidan than one against almost any other action over which protest action currently looms.

Although in fairness 192 km/h in a 00 Astra...I'd have asked for a calibration on the hairdryer because I KNOW my car can't go that fast and in general these things have smaller engines than mine. It would certainly require a lot more concentration and physical stamina to drive an Astra at that speed than a Fiat Coupe.

A "message needs to go back to this judge" that there are actual crimes with victims out there and while all of these people were driving in excess of the prescribed speed limit and in breach of the law, I'd only classify the Astra driver as "speeding", which I would see to be an amalgam of factors, such as conditions, the vehicle and the given speed.

jimmycrackcorm

I don't agree with the jail sentences as a hefty fine and ban would have been sufficient because these speeds were done on a motorway not a single lane carriageway. Our jails are full enough as it is and those speeds would not cause any attention on a German autobahn.

ION08

This is very harsh, theoretically the Judges argument sounds convincing but the punishment is far too severe.

A €2000 fine with 4 yr disqualification is painful enough but the 3 month sentence is shocking.

The judge makes a convincing point when he comments about deaths and that the driver could have been "driving his own coffin" but that is not a certainty, he is basing it on what COULD have happened.

I'm sure anyone who has ever owned even a semi decently powerful car has probably driven at that sort of speed on some occasion.

I laughed at the defense attorneys main argument being that the car was "built for speed" - whoa bet you the judge didn't see that one coming! :rolleyes:

Gary ITR

Crazy crazy decision. A jail sentence probably lost these guys their careers.

I had to go to court in Naas a while back over an unpaid speeding fine (feckin fleet company not forwarding the fine on) and the people I saw walk out of there with no more than a slap on the wrist.

bazzachazza

unkel wrote: »

Fair play? Jail sentences? :eek:

Maybe he should go back to the cave in Donegal he came from. I don't know the circumstances but doing 200km/h on an empty motorway in good weather conditions is not necessarily dangerous.

Where in the original post does it

1) SAY THE MOTORWAY WAS EMPTY

2) THERE WAS GOOD WEATHER CONDITION'S

I agree all three punishments are harsh far too harsh. But those speeds are ridiculous.

This judge is notorious hater of speeders.

Cuddlesworth

bop1977 wrote: »

Commenting on the case, Judge Zaidan referred to his time as a judge in Donegal, which has a notorious speeding problem. He questioned what was the problem on Kildare roads.

He said: "I was in Donegal as a judge for some time and the worst speed I came across was 175 km/h.

Doing 175km/h on any Donegal road has to be the equivalent of 300km/h on a motorway in terms of an accident and the chance of death.

Its not really the speed that kills its the stopping. And on a empty motorway your car will slide for a long time. Nothing like that up there in the boondocks.

B11gt00e

From what I hear on this forum, the five-O in Kildare would be doing a better job for public safety by keeping an eye on that county's drivers on the secondary roads as it sounds like they're a lot more dangerous than somebody making good time (under the circumstances descibed above by unkel) on a nice strip of motorway.

As for the judge's verdict... Ouch!!!

Tipsy Mac

I hate the way people introduce the violin onto the court to try to make themselves look good

Mr Morelli, a retailer who employs over 20 people in Tipperary

so what, does that make him somehow less punishable than someone who is say on the dole?

SV

Jail sentence for this?
:rolleyes:

I wouldn't mind but..to be honest, he wasn't even travelling that fast.

ottostreet

yeah its quick enough, but at that hour...why not? he was foolish enough to do it and get caught, and thats fair enough, but the penalty is too harsh.

Yakult

pro tip - Dont get caught speeding at 200kph.

Bobo78

They got 2000 euro fine, lost their licence for 4 years and they still get 3 months in prison????
That judge is a joke seriously.

Disgraceful decision. 200km/h on a motorway is not that fast.

APM

those punishments were far too harsh, and on good roads which were probably empty at the time.

Feel quite sorry for the drivers

Stark

Comparing doing 175km/hr on Donegeal roads to 200km/hr on an empty motorway? Apples and oranges. He shouldn't be relying on his own conceptions of what's "fast" when passing down sentence.

LookBehindYou

APM wrote: »

those punishments were far too harsh, and on good roads which were probably empty at the time.

Feel quite sorry for the drivers

The Judge is maybe a member of the GREEN PARTY,,, pushbike brigade.
a joke.

200 kph is not that fast on a motorway.

200 kph on minor roads is a different story.

Now there are less prison places for real criminals, thank to that nice judge.

MagicMarker

200kph may be perfectly safe during the day, in perfect weather conditions on a completely empty road.

Both instances happened at 7pm & 8pm respectively, I somehow doubt that the roads were empty.

Stupid speeds by stupid people who deserved what they got.

inforfun

I bet that judge is doing 60 km/h right now on a 100 km/h road in his Nissan Micra.
Those are the ones that should be jailed.

junkyard

These cases will more than likely be overturned on appeal. Even if they did have to go to jail, chances are they'd be sent home the same day as there's no room in prisons and this wouldn't be regarded as a serious crime. A ludicrous sentence I might add but many judges don't live in the real world.:rolleyes:

LookBehindYou

Judge Zaidan, who is a native of Lebanon,

Our man in Havana

http://www.leinsterleader.ie/news/Forget-Judge-Judy-Kildares-Judge.4350953.jp

SV

Bond-007 wrote: »

http://www.leinsterleader.ie/news/Forget-Judge-Judy-Kildares-Judge.4350953.jp

http://www.bebo.com/Profile.jsp?MemberId=5007486250

TheNog

The prison sentences are a bit too far and any appeal would have a good chance of being successful. The 4 yr disqualification is a bit much too. The fine isnt though

peasant

Jail for doing 200 on a motorway is ridiculous. A hefty fine and a ban would suffice.

Especially in light of the fact that your man on the single carriage road outside Letterkenny doing the same speed got away with a rap on the knuckles as "he needed his car for work" or something. (Too lazy to search, but you know the case)

Do judges here draw their judgements out of a hat?

EDIT:
did a search ..here's the Donegal case
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055013016&highlight=porsche

polyfusion

The excuse of Mr. Morelli makes him sound like a right bullsh!tter.

And saying "empty road at that hour" doesn't cut it with me - I often drive very late/early and the roads are never empty. I'm just surprised that the gardai were out that early to catch him.

Bullet in the head for both them fuks as far as I'm concerned.

stepbar

Jail is pure madness for a speeding offence on a motorway. I don't disagree with the driving ban or the fine.

peasant

polyfusion wrote: »

Bullet in the head for both them fuks as far as I'm concerned.

foam at the mouth much?

Mr. Presentable

Sorry lads, but do you really think the road was empty at 7:07 and 8:10 in the evening? Why do you think it was, and why do you think conditions were good?

I agree a custodial sentence is a bit harsh - I'd have crushed their cars - except the guy in the Astra -he should be locked in an asylum, 200-ish in a 9yo Astra :eek:

Thoie

stepbar wrote: »

Jail is pure madness for a speeding offense. I don't disagree with the driving ban or the fine.

At the same time, in theory, jail is for people who break laws. People have gone to jail for not paying for refuse collection. I'm not saying that's right, but laws were broken.

peasant

nipplenuts wrote: »

200-ish in a 9yo Astra :eek:

Not defending your man ...but 200 in a 9 year old Astra is nothing exceptional on a German motorway. The car is well able for it.
Doesn't mean you should be doing that speed on Irish motorway though.

carsQhere

Jail for speeding is just crazy considering the number of real criminals who walk away with far less for very much more serious offences. Keep prison for the criminals. Fine/ban/points would have been sufficient, but this is Ireland so of course our priorities are back to front.

L1011

Zaidan is an unhinged nutter, IIRC he *banned* someone for overtaking on the hatched off median of the Straffan Road in Maynooth.

Which has a broken white line down both sides...

Its not just motoring offenses he's this bad on, a quick read of the Liffey Champion every week is required doing for me to see what else he's done.

Our man in Havana

Have his decisions been overturned on appeal?

L1011

Champion would never report that, that'd be good news. We don't even hear about local musicians/sports stars till someone bad happens...

Mossy Monk

Jail is perhaps a bit OTT but it should send out a message. 200 km/h is taking the piss though.

skyhighflyer

Those decisions are ridiculous; the law is supposed to apply equally to everyone and the punishment you receive shouldn't depend on the whim of the judge you happen to draw.

Driving at 200km/h on a clear motorway in a car that is designed for such speeds isn't dangerous of itself. In his judgment he seems to make the statistically-debunked assumption that speed of itself = dangerous. He states 'the worst speed I ever saw in Donegal was 175km/h'.

Firstly, the phrase 'worst speed' shows how clueless he is about the actual cause of road deaths - 100km/h on a back road is far 'worse speed' than 160km/h on a motorway, but this judge only cares about the headline number and not the surrounding cirumstances.

Secondly, 175km/h in Donegal is far more dangerous than 200km/h on the M7.

Thirdly, all the defence needs to do on appeal to the Circuit Court is to cite the numerous judgments handed down on identical facts that didn't impose anything like the same penalties.

L1011

Mossy Monk wrote: »

Jail is perhaps a bit OTT but it should send out a message. 200 km/h is taking the piss though.

As said elsewhere on the thread, on the exact same or lower quality of road in Germany, 200km/h would be the normal speed you'd expect a Fiat Coupe to be doing.

However comparing 200km/h on a runway of a motorway as the M7 is at Cherryville (its the long straight between Monasterevin and Kildare Town) to 175km/h on even the best road in Zaidan's part of Donegal (the N13 towards Derry) is taking the piss. Even comparing it to the most 'speed-suitable' road in the county - the Bundoran/Ballyshannon Bypass - is taking the piss. The Donegal driving was incalculably more dangerous than the M7 driving.

TheBazman

I've driven at well over 200 kph in stretches of the autobahn which were inferior to long stretches of the M7. A custodial sentence is ridiculous.

yop

Thats pure power tripping. 3 months for that but guys who rob/rape etc get 12 months and less!!! Bloody joke.
Yes take his license but prison! What a numpty

Mossy Monk

MYOB wrote: »

As said elsewhere on the thread, on the exact same or lower quality of road in Germany, 200km/h would be the normal speed you'd expect a Fiat Coupe to be doing.

What is the norm in Germany is immaterial to what it is here. Speed limits are put in place so if some idiot is caught doing 200 km/h on a road then tough ****.

Muckie

Bet your mans bowels clenched when the sentence was read out!
Some times it all depends on the humour of the Judge on the day

L1011

Mossy Monk wrote: »

What is the norm in Germany is immaterial to what it is here. Speed limits are put in place so if some idiot is caught doing 200 km/h on a road then tough ****.

Doesn't change the fact that 200km/h on a dead straight motorway isn't "taking the piss" if the car is capable of it. Illegal, yes. "taking the piss" as you asserted, no.

MagicMarker

MYOB wrote: »

Doesn't change the fact that 200km/h on a dead straight motorway isn't "taking the piss" if the car is capable of it. Illegal, yes. "taking the piss" as you asserted, no.

If the cars around you are only doing a max speed of 120 then it is most certainly taking the piss.

Saab Ed

While 200km is very quick and cant be condoned neither can alot of things that have gone on in this country over the last couple of years and I dont see many **** bankers going to jail. He should have just said his name was Bertie , that on mature recolection he doesnt remember driving the car at that speed and claim to have a long established drink problem....( in this instance he would have had to have driven up the wrong side of the same stretch of road fro this story to fit RE: http://www.rte.ie/news/2005/0427/mcdaidj.html ) My arse they should go to jail when scumbags with a 100 convictions for everything from robbery to assault are walking the streets because they come from deprived broken homes. If you think these people should go to prison then maybe you should move to some communist nut zone now, you'd feel right at home there. If they killed someone they should go to prison but all they did was break the speed limit. You'll kill a child at 60 kmh in a 50 kmh zone. Now which of the above do gooders have never broken that limit ?;)

Damien360

That judge is known for his tough sentencing. The truth is that the jail will be full and everyone will be out later that day as it will not be viewed by the prison governer as a serious enough crime considering the crap he sees every other day. That is the reality of Irish prison system.

Back on topic.

200kmph on any road is madness. It has been discussed so many times on this forum about the inferior quality of many drivers on Irish roads. Even if the defendants were formula 1 drivers with the utmost skill and control, capable of 200kmph driving ferraris, it still will not help either them or the car they hit, when some clown just changes lane for no apparent reason (as they do) or to slow them down (idiots policing the road themselves).

120kmph limit is there for a reason. It is what our roads are designed for. It accounts for road surface quality, heavy water on road (common), safe viewing distance which is dictated by the rate at which the road bends (how far can you see at 120 on some bends between portlaoise and kildare as am example - bends feel tighter than either side of that section).

I also beleive it is also there as a safeguard against other crap drivers. That one is there unintentionaly though.

If we set a higher limit, all of us know it will be seen as a target. Can you imagine the carnage when you ignore road conditions and look solely at the quality of irish driving ?

After saying all that I admit to travelling at 140kmph on motorways most of the time which kind of shoots my argument down a bit. My hands will be up if I am caught on camera, I am in the wrong.

L1011

MagicMarker wrote: »

If the cars around you are only doing a max speed of 120 then it is most certainly taking the piss.

Two things wrong with your statement:

1: On that section of motorway, the average running speed is much closer to 140 than 120, so 200 is a lower % above average
2: Funnily enough its not seen as taking the piss in countries enlightened enough to have unlimited motorways. Many people drive at 100-140 in the inner lane while getting passed by drivers doing far in excess of 200 on autobahns.

The only taking the piss here is the custodial sentence.