IMPORTANT INFO RE SWINE FLU

31-08-2009 09:37PM

IrelandSpirit wrote: »

My point exactly. To my knowledge they are and will be testing for these random and weird reaction on us. Sorry, but i do value my health!

And they are doing in safe controlled conditions, not on the general population like the scaremongers are claiming.
No one is forcing you to take the vaccine before it's tested (or at all for that matter.)
The only reason they are making the vaccine before the testing is finish is do that will be ready for the flu season.

Run_to_da_hills · 31-08-2009 10:01PM

King Mob wrote: »

The only reason they are making the vaccine before the testing is finish is do that will be ready for the flu season.

They are waiting for the Lisbon Treaty to be signed so that they can force it out across Europe. :eek:

31-08-2009 10:04PM

uprising wrote: »

The flu vaccine has been available in America sine 1945. The purpose of this vaccine is to help your body build immunity against harmful organisms that make you sick. Your body, however, is equipped to do this naturally.

And the vaccines use the exact same mechanism your body uses when it's normal fighting a virus.
The vaccine however doesn't have the symptoms of the virus.

uprising wrote: »

The mucous membranes, the vehicle by which most disease-causing organisms enter the body, has a defense system of its own called the IgA immune system. Disease-causing organisms kick the IgA immune system into action to fight off the invaders. When a vaccine is injected into the body, the IgA immune system is skipped over and your body’s immune system is jolted into action.

And what happens when the virus gets past the IgA and infects the actual body?
Or did no one get sick before vaccines?

The vaccines react on the other parts of the immune system like IgM and IgG and produce the exact same antibodies that would be made by IgA in the mucous.
By getting the antibodies from a vaccine rather than virus, your immune system deals with a lot less antigens then it would form a virus.
Also the vaccines either cause none of the symptoms or weaker symptoms.
This means that the vaccine is just plain safer than get the disease, polio springs to mind. Similar to how chicken pox is relatively harmless in children but quite dangerous to adults.

uprising wrote: »

Your body’s immune system being prodded into action this way is unnatural.

Your immune system reacts in the exact same way as it would in the presence of the actual virus.
"Unnatural" is simply a word you're using because it sounds scary.
The flu virus is "natural" and has killed far far more than the "unnatural" vaccine.

uprising wrote: »

Do you realize what is in a vaccine?

I do, apparently you don't.

uprising wrote: »

It could contain either killed or live viruses,

Mmmh no ****.
That's how they work.
And you've just spend a paragraph explaining how live viruses "are natural."
Can you explain how either are dangerous?

uprising wrote: »

thimerasol,

There hasn't been thimerasol in vaccines in a while and it has never been shown to be in anyway dangerous at the doses in vaccines.
But it's got mercury in it so it must be scary.

uprising wrote: »

antifreeze,

That's completely untrue.

Some pro-disease anti-vaxers claim there is antifreeze in vaccines. This is false. Antifreeze is ethylene glycol. Vaccines use polyethylenes glycol. These are different substances, the latter of which is not toxic. More info can be found at Inside Vaccines.

http://insidevaccines.com/wordpress/2008/03/13/common-anti-vaccination-myths-and-misconceptions/

uprising wrote: »

formaldehyde,

The chemical structure of the formaldehyde in vaccines is the same as that produced by our own bodies. It is used during the manufacturing process, but is diluted to remove it from the finished product, leaving only small or trace amounts. The total amount of formaldehyde in a finished product is far less than what is naturally found in the human body.

http://www.chop.edu/consumer/jsp/division/generic.jsp?id=75809

Hopefully these chemical formulas will make things clearer:

Formaldehyde in our bodies = H2CO (natural)
Formaldehyde in vaccines = H2CO (synthetic)
Formaldehyde in embalming fluid = H2CO+CH3OH+CH3CH2OH+solvents
Formaldehyde in plywood = H2CO+NH2CONH2+CH3OH+HCOOH+H2O

uprising wrote: »

carbolic acid, Neomycin and/or streptomycin.

And are these dangerous at the levels present in the vaccine?

You would probably know about they most dangerous chemical of all.
Dihydrogen Oxide.

31-08-2009 10:06PM

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

They are waiting for the Lisbon Treaty to be signed so that they can force it out across Europe. :eek:

Oh for god's sake.

That is just not true Rdth. Why do you think it is?

Or can we all just make **** up to make Lisbon and vaccines or whatever we want sound terrifying?

Run_to_da_hills · 31-08-2009 10:14PM

King Mob wrote: »

Oh for god's sake.

That is just not true Rdth. Why do you think it is?

Or can we all just make **** up to make Lisbon and vaccines or whatever we want sound terrifying?

To facilitate the task of forced vaccinations the EU will assign a special armed task force similar to that of National Guard and allocate holding camps. :eek:

31-08-2009 10:17PM

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

To facilitate the task they will assign an armed euro task force similar to that of National Guard and allocate holding camps. :eek:

No you've got it all wrong.
They're building a clone army so they can fight the Chinese robot army.
The vaccine is to get DNA samples to find the best clones.

You do know what you're claiming is pure fantasy right?
Can you back it up at all?

IrelandSpirit · 31-08-2009 10:24PM

King Mob wrote: »

And they are doing in safe controlled conditions, not on the general population like the scaremongers are claiming.
No one is forcing you to take the vaccine before it's tested (or at all for that matter.)
The only reason they are making the vaccine before the testing is finish is do that will be ready for the flu season.

Hmmm, it does not seem rational to have the involved chat we just had about this vaccine being tested on the general population, specifically children (in the US returning to school) only for you to then say that these tests are not conducted on the general population. And moreover, conducted in safe controlled conditions? You don't make any sense there at all!

However, please understand i'm neither scaremongering nor falling prey to scaremongering, if you feel you've come to an informed decision, go ahead and have all the shots you like. I do not think it is safe to inject substances into my body which have not (at least) been tested and deemed safe. This seems entirely rational to me.

True though, nobody's forcing me to take the vaccine before it's tested or at all, and i personally will not be. If it becomes mandatory like in Greece and Norway, well... anybody waving a needle around here's gonna be in for a nasty shock!

31-08-2009 10:39PM

IrelandSpirit wrote: »

Hmmm, it does not seem rational to have the involved chat we just had about this vaccine being tested on the general population, specifically children (in the US returning to school) only for you to then say that these tests are not conducted on the general population. And moreover, conducted in safe controlled conditions? You don't make any sense there at all!

Yea, the children are participating in trials, the general population is everyone not just controlled groups of children.
The vaccine is not commercially available yet.
You were implying that they were going to make it commercially available before testing and monitor the entire population as the testing

IrelandSpirit · 31-08-2009 10:54PM

King Mob wrote: »

Yea, the children are participating in trials, the general population is everyone not just controlled groups of children.
The vaccine is not commercially available yet.
You were implying that they were going to make it commercially available before testing and monitor the entire population as the testing

Well, to my mind children are part of the general population as opposed to paid volunteers in a series of controlled clinical tests.

By definition the vaccine is commercially available because governments are buying it.

Put the two together, and yes, i can see the same scenario as happened with thalidomide which was also released without adequate tests to assess safety.

IrelandSpirit · 31-08-2009 11:02PM

Correction, a similar scenario - i'm not implying we're gonna see the same symptoms as thalidomide, (who know what we'll see) i'm only using that as an example of what happens when Big Pharma 'jumps the gun', as it were...

31-08-2009 11:12PM

IrelandSpirit wrote: »

Well, to my mind children are part of the general population as opposed to paid volunteers in a series of controlled clinical tests.

By definition the vaccine is commercially available because governments are buying it.

That's not what commercially available means dude.

IrelandSpirit wrote: »

Put the two together, and yes, i can see the same scenario as happened with thalidomide which was also released without adequate tests to assess safety.

The FDA actually never approved thalidomide.

The impact in the United States was minimized when the pharmacologist Frances Oldham Kelsey refused Food and Drug Administration (FDA) approval for an application from Richardson Merrell to market thalidomide, saying more study was needed.

And there's been a bit of change in regulation, testing and safety standards in the last thirty years.

Torakx · 31-08-2009 11:33PM

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

They are waiting for the Lisbon Treaty to be signed so that they can force it out across Europe. :eek:

damn talk about putting 2 and 2 together!
very good point indeed.makes alot of sense.
they can already force it in the USA thats been proven you can get most of them to back anything.

england i thought i heard them considering forced vaccination.
and im guessing asia will be a pushover wether they die from the flu or the vaccine.

someone i was talking to also had another theory about the vaccine.
what if the last swine flu back in 1940 ish? was made to scare.
and the real deal is coming soon.
so how to get rid of all your opposition? scare them into not taking the vaciine and maybe they will mostly go away with the swine flu.

myself i am staying away from any vacinnes ever! id rather sit indoors and wear a mask when i go out lol

IrelandSpirit · 31-08-2009 11:38PM

King Mob wrote: »

That's not what commercially available means dude.

The FDA actually never approved thalidomide.

And there's been a bit of change in regulation, testing and safety standards in the last thirty years.

Oh, i thought commercially available means it's available to buy, as in 'commercially available'... what's it mean then?

In any case, whether or not the FDA actually approved thalidomide is largely irrelevant - many other regulating bodies did approve it and with catastrophic results. My point is that any regulating body testing on children in clinical trials is highly irregular, to say the least. There is a vast irreconcilable difference between using innocent children and informed (and paid) adult volunteers.

So yeah, there has indeed been a bit of change in regulation, testing and safety standards - there doesn't seem to be any if they're testing on members of the general public without full disclosure.

31-08-2009 11:48PM

IrelandSpirit wrote: »

Oh, i thought commercially available means it's available to buy, as in 'commercially available'... what's it mean then?

The US government buys F-22s from Lockheed. Are they "commercially available"?

IrelandSpirit wrote: »

In any case, whether or not the FDA actually approved thalidomide is largely irrelevant - many other regulating bodies did approve it and with catastrophic results. My point is that any regulating body testing on children in clinical trials is highly irregular, to say the least. There is a vast irreconcilable difference between using innocent children and informed (and paid) adult volunteers.

But you see thalidomide was being used (not just sold) before testing.
There are now regulations and laws that prevent stuff like that from happening.

IrelandSpirit wrote: »

So yeah, there has indeed been a bit of change in regulation, testing and safety standards - there doesn't seem to be any if they're testing on members of the general public without full disclosure.

How do you know the people testing the vaccine are getting full disclosure exactly?
And it bares pointing out the sum of your (and mine) knowledge of these trails is the brief mention in these news reports?
So how can you conclude that they're not following guidelines?

Captain Furball · 01-09-2009 12:09AM

An internal French government document that outlines detailed plans and orders for the force vaccination of the French population using secure “vaccine” facilities and starting from September 28th has emerged.

http://www.sante-jeunesse-sports.gouv.fr/IMG/pdf/Circulaire_vaccination_090824.pdf

IrelandSpirit · 01-09-2009 12:19AM

King Mob wrote: »

The US government buys F-22s from Lockheed. Are they "commercially available"?

But you see thalidomide was being used (not just sold) before testing.
There are now regulations and laws that prevent stuff like that from happening.

How do you know the people testing the vaccine are getting full disclosure exactly?
And it bares pointing out the sum of your (and mine) knowledge of these trails is the brief mention in these news reports?
So how can you conclude that they're not following guidelines?

Ok, the US government buys F-22s from Lockheed. Are they "commercially available"? Yes, because The US government buys F-22s from Lockheed. If they weren't "commercially available" Lockheed wouldn't sell F-22s. They'd keep them or give them away which rather defeats the purpose for commercially manufacturing them to sell in the first place.

How do I know the people testing the vaccine are getting full disclosure exactly? They are NOT getting full disclosure, that's my point, because if they were, or any one of us was, then the Health Board would have at the very least provided us with an information package stating that we are taking part in a clinical trial; exactly what that trial entails, the risks involved, etc, etc...

True, the sum of our knowledge of these trails is limited, but I can conclude that they're not following the normal guidelines expected in clinical trials precisely because none have appeared to be conducted - if you can find the results anywhere then please tell me where.

Thalidomide was being used before testing, yes, that's my point too, and as to regulations and laws that prevent stuff like that from happening, yes there are but are they being enforced in this alleged H1N1 epidemic? Apparently not or we'd have the results of the vaccine's trials readily available and this thread wouldn't have been started.

01-09-2009 12:29AM

IrelandSpirit wrote: »

Ok, the US government buys F-22s from Lockheed. Are they "commercially available"? Yes, because The US government buys F-22s from Lockheed. If they weren't "commercially available" Lockheed wouldn't sell F-22s. They'd keep them or give them away which rather defeats the purpose for commercially manufacturing them to sell in the first place.

So can the public buy an F-22?

Commercially available means being available to the public.

IrelandSpirit wrote: »

How do I know the people testing the vaccine are getting full disclosure exactly? They are NOT getting full disclosure, that's my point, because if they were, or any one of us was, then the Health Board would have at the very least provided us with an information package stating that we are taking part in a clinical trial; exactly what that trial entails, the risks involved, etc, etc...

But the health board is it conducting the trails. I'm referring to the children you talked about in the earlier post who are taking part in trials.

IrelandSpirit wrote: »

True, the sum of our knowledge of these trails is limited, but I can conclude that they're not following the normal guidelines expected in clinical trials precisely because none have appeared to be conducted - if you can find the results anywhere then please tell me where.

The results aren't quite in yet. Your only knowledge of the trials are from that article but you conclude they are not following guidelines based on ...what exactly?
Are you familiar with the ins and outs of large medical trials?

IrelandSpirit wrote: »

Thalidomide was being used before testing, yes, that's my point too, and as to regulations and laws that prevent stuff like that from happening, yes there are but are they being enforced in this alleged H1N1 epidemic? Apparently not or we'd have the results of the vaccine's trials readily available and this thread wouldn't have been started.

No you're assuming they are not following the regulations.

If they weren't subject to the rules like you think, why are they bothering with trials at all?

IrelandSpirit · 01-09-2009 12:43AM

Torakx wrote: »

damn talk about putting 2 and 2 together!
very good point indeed.makes alot of sense.
they can already force it in the USA thats been proven you can get most of them to back anything.

england i thought i heard them considering forced vaccination.
and im guessing asia will be a pushover wether they die from the flu or the vaccine.

someone i was talking to also had another theory about the vaccine.
what if the last swine flu back in 1940 ish? was made to scare.
and the real deal is coming soon.
so how to get rid of all your opposition? scare them into not taking the vaciine and maybe they will mostly go away with the swine flu.

myself i am staying away from any vacinnes ever! id rather sit indoors and wear a mask when i go out lol

Yeah, that thought did cross my mind too, it would be a good way to get rid of 'the opposition'.

There's talk of this 1st wave being a beta test, and when the virus mutates/recombines into a more virulent and lethal strain, (or one is released) then the WHO can have more reason to force all members into the mandatory inoculation scenario - I think they're legally empowered to do this now too, but probably feel the resistance would be too great. With the death toll mounting then most people would be more likely to comply.

I don't personally subscribe to this being part of a depopulation agenda, not at this stage. It could be though, it could certainly be an efficient and expedient method to get rid of a lot of people but not to reduce the levels to the half billion on the Georgia Guidestones, say.

It's just too... too obvious!

No, i think this is simply about money at this stage. That viruses can be and have been engineered in labs is a well-known fact. That they would release something into the population and make a mint from vaccines and anti-virals? Certainly.

uprising · 01-09-2009 12:46AM

During the afternoon of the 29th August, one of our reporters went to visit a family living at Pattaya Green Villas on Soi Siam to investigate a story about suspected incompetence.

On arrival, the reporter met up with 54 year old Mr. Boonnak and his 6 year old daughter. He claimed that because of the recent outbreak of the H1N1 Swine Flu epidemic, the girl, who is a student at a local school, was given a vaccination without his consent. As a result, a few days later, the girl was coughing and sneezing and coming down with a fever. He panicked and took her immediately to Bangkok Hospital Pattaya, where he was shocked to learn from the doctor that she was infected with the H1N1 flu virus. As he could not afford to pay 3,000 baht for a remedy vaccine they returned home and subsequently both he and the rest of his family have come down with the virus. Mr. Boonnak stated that he wanted the school to take responsibility for their medical bills, but so far has not received any acknowledgement of his request.
http://www.pattayapeople.com/default.asp?Folder=16&IdArticle=18804

IrelandSpirit · 01-09-2009 12:46AM

King Mob wrote: »

So can the public buy an F-22?

Commercially available means being available to the public.

But the health board is it conducting the trails. I'm referring to the children you talked about in the earlier post who are taking part in trials.

The results aren't quite in yet. Your only knowledge of the trials are from that article but you conclude they are not following guidelines based on ...what exactly?
Are you familiar with the ins and outs of large medical trials?

No you're assuming they are not following the regulations.

If they weren't subject to the rules like you think, why are they bothering with trials at all?

As I stated earlier, I'm personally not going to allow anybody to inject me with substances especially, as you say, if the results are'nt quite in yet.

The reason the results arent in yet is because they will be doing the trials on the general population.

Conducting clinical trials trials on the general population, especially children is not, in my mind, following the correct procedure - you are of course free to think what you like. You are of course free to take part in this trial, let us know how you get on.

Torakx · 01-09-2009 12:50AM

and on top of that i found in america they are considering pregnant women and children first

IrelandSpirit · 01-09-2009 12:55AM

Captain Furball wrote: »

An internal French government document that outlines detailed plans and orders for the force vaccination of the French population using secure “vaccine” facilities and starting from September 28th has emerged.

http://www.sante-jeunesse-sports.gouv.fr/IMG/pdf/Circulaire_vaccination_090824.pdf

Thanks for that, i've a French friend who can have a look at it.

What's always got me concerned about all this is the mandatory aspect...

01-09-2009 12:56AM

IrelandSpirit wrote: »

As I stated earlier, I'm personally not going to allow anybody to inject me with substances especially, as you say, if the results are'nt quite in yet.

And no one is claiming they are.

IrelandSpirit wrote: »

The reason the results arent in yet is because they will be doing the trials on the general population.

No that's not true at all.
They are currently doing trials right now.

IrelandSpirit wrote: »

Conducting clinical trials trials on the general population, especially children is not, in my mind, following the correct procedure - you are of course free to think what you like. You are of course free to take part in this trial, let us know how you get on.

You can believe what you want doesn't mean it's true.
You don't know what the procedure is but you're just assuming that they aren't following them.

Captain Furball · 01-09-2009 12:57AM

IrelandSpirit wrote: »

Thanks for that, i've a French friend who can have a look at it.

What's always got me concerned about all this is the mandatory aspect...

Your welcome.Find out from your friend and post back if you don't mind.That's the thing it's actually insane.

IrelandSpirit · 01-09-2009 01:01AM

uprising wrote: »

On arrival, the reporter met up with 54 year old Mr. Boonnak and his 6 year old daughter. He claimed that because of the recent outbreak of the H1N1 Swine Flu epidemic, the girl, who is a student at a local school, was given a vaccination without his consent.

http://www.pattayapeople.com/default.asp?Folder=16&IdArticle=18804

Live Avian Flu Virus Placed in Baxter Vaccine Materials Sent to 18 Countries Flashback: Homeless People Die After Bird Flu Vaccine Trial in Poland

http://socioecohistory.wordpress.com/2009/03/07/live-avian-flu-virus-placed-in-baxter-vaccine-materials-sent-to-18-countries/

There's tons of well documented material on that...

4gun · 01-09-2009 01:03AM

the immune system works rather like a student studying for an exam, he has to learn his chosen subject by meticulous study and problem solving bla bla bla anyway he sit his exam passes and get his degree, the harder he worked the better his results will be and the better he will be in his chosen career, every body clear on this
ok now thke another student and give him all the answere to ever exam he will ever take dont let him do any research for him self, just give him his degree
which one would you employ :P
our immunesystems have to learn how to fight diease from the moment we are born our bodies are constantly under attack from the environment around us, childhood illnesses like measles mumps coughs and colds rarely harm a healthy child but they are the training ground for our defences against more serious attacks from cancers and other diseases ,but you must give your body the correct tools in the form of good wholesome and nutritious food.half the fruit and veg we buy in oursuper markets is rubbish,

01-09-2009 01:10AM

4gun wrote: »

the immune system works rather like a student studying for an exam, he has to learn his chosen subject by meticulous study and problem solving bla bla bla anyway he sit his exam passes and get his degree, the harder he worked the better his results will be and the better he will be in his chosen career, every body clear on this
ok now thke another student and give him all the answere to ever exam he will ever take dont let him do any research for him self, just give him his degree
which one would you employ :P
our immunesystems have to learn how to fight diease from the moment we are born our bodies are constantly under attack from the environment around us, childhood illnesses like measles mumps coughs and colds rarely harm a healthy child but they are the training ground for our defences against more serious attacks from cancers and other diseases ,but you must give your body the correct tools in the form of good wholesome and nutritious food.half the fruit and veg we buy in oursuper markets is rubbish,

That's not how the immune system works.
The antigens are either there or not.
It doesn't matter if the "answers are given to it."

But **** it guesses and half remembered biology lessons are obviously equal to real research.

IrelandSpirit · 01-09-2009 01:10AM

4gun wrote: »

the immune system works rather like a student studying for an exam, he has to learn his chosen subject by meticulous study and problem solving bla bla bla anyway he sit his exam passes and get his degree, the harder he worked the better his results will be and the better he will be in his chosen career, every body clear on this
ok now thke another student and give him all the answere to ever exam he will ever take dont let him do any research for him self, just give him his degree
which one would you employ :P
our immunesystems have to learn how to fight diease from the moment we are born our bodies are constantly under attack from the environment around us, childhood illnesses like measles mumps coughs and colds rarely harm a healthy child but they are the training ground for our defences against more serious attacks from cancers and other diseases ,but you must give your body the correct tools in the form of good wholesome and nutritious food.half the fruit and veg we buy in oursuper markets is rubbish,

Agreed, and good way of putting it! Add the Codex Alimentarius proposals to limit and control vitamin supplements/organic foods into the mix and we've a serious problem fighting off any disease.

IrelandSpirit · 01-09-2009 01:12AM

Captain Furball wrote: »

Your welcome.Find out from your friend and post back if you don't mind.That's the thing it's actually insane.

Will do. And yep, it is insane from our perspective...

4gun · 01-09-2009 01:15AM

King Mob wrote: »

That's not how the immune system works.
The antigens are either there or not.
It doesn't matter if the "answers are given to it."

But **** it guesses and half remembered biology lessons are obviously equal to real research.

your body has to lear how to make antigens dumbo and for each diferent pathogen it makes a different one
study your biology

IMPORTANT INFO RE SWINE FLU

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