IMPORTANT INFO RE SWINE FLU

IrelandSpirit · 31-08-2009 08:01PM

King Mob wrote: »

And can you point out where the information provided by the government is untrue?

How can they say a totally untested vaccine is safe?

IrelandSpirit · 31-08-2009 08:03PM

King Mob wrote: »

That's just not true.
The vaccine is currently being tested in a number of ways.

emmm, like what?

Captain Furball · 31-08-2009 08:05PM

King Mob wrote: »

I believe people should listen to trained medical professionals and not random people on the internet.

I didn't say it's definitely not dangerous.
However seeing as it's based heavily on the season flu vaccine it probably isn't going to be dangerous.

Maybe someone can finally provide some scientific evidence that the vaccine is dangerous.

Which Ones?The experts on heart surgery, vaccine makers or just our local GP?Would you say your in a position to say if it's dangerous or not?

31-08-2009 08:06PM

IrelandSpirit wrote: »

How can they say a totally untested vaccine is safe?

And where do they say this?

IrelandSpirit wrote: »

emmm, like what?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_flu_pandemic_vaccine#Testing

31-08-2009 08:10PM

Captain Furball wrote: »

Which Ones?The experts on heart surgery, vaccine makers or just our local GP?

Your GP or anyone who works with virology.
Or the ones that have

Captain Furball wrote: »

Would you say your in a position to say if it's dangerous or not?

Never say I was.
However given the fact that there is no evidence or reasoning that it is dangerous and that it is based on the seasonal vaccine which is very safe, I'd put my money on it being safe.

IrelandSpirit · 31-08-2009 08:16PM

King Mob wrote: »

And where do they say this?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_flu_pandemic_vaccine#Testing

They say the vaccine is safe on their website here:

http://www.dohc.ie/

They're buying this untested vaccine for us as we speak.

The US has already begun inoculating children as 'guinea pigs' outlined in the short video report below:

Scientists Refuse Swine Flu Vaccine:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bm3WrUDfzGg

BTW, even the wiki link you just provided states:
"Pressure for early delivery of vaccine has led some companies to take initial steps toward production of the vaccine before testing has been completed."

Please look closer into Baxter et al

Captain Furball · 31-08-2009 08:17PM

King Mob wrote: »

Your GP or anyone who works with virology.
Or the ones that have

Never say I was.
However given the fact that there is no evidence or reasoning that it is dangerous and that it is based on the seasonal vaccine which is very safe, I'd put my money on it being safe.

Ok fair enough.

So right now do you think people should take the swine flu vaccine?
If no, why not and if yes, why?

IrelandSpirit · 31-08-2009 08:20PM

Captain, me thinks we might be wasting our time here with King Mob!

31-08-2009 08:22PM

Captain Furball wrote: »

Ok fair enough.

So right now do you think people should take the swine flu vaccine?
If no, why not and if yes, why?

I am not in a position to give medical advice.

They should talk to their doctors and read up on the actual scientific papers.

bonkey · 31-08-2009 08:23PM

Captain Furball wrote: »

So you believe humans should not take this vaccine right now as It is not yet fully tested?

Yellow card.

Let me remind everyone that there will be a summary banning for anyone who offers medical advice, even in the form of answering a question as to what others should or should not do.

This is treading a very, very close line to being either grossly irresponsible, or just plain trolling.

bonkey · 31-08-2009 08:28PM

IrelandSpirit wrote: »

BTW, even the wiki link you just provided states:
"Pressure for early delivery of vaccine has led some companies to take initial steps toward production of the vaccine before testing has been completed."

It does indeed.

What it doesn't say is that the vaccine will be delivered before testing is satisfactorily completed.

31-08-2009 08:30PM

IrelandSpirit wrote: »

They say the vaccine is safe on their website here:

http://www.dohc.ie/

I'm honestly can't see that anywhere.
Where about is it?

IrelandSpirit wrote: »

They're buying this untested vaccine for us as we speak.

The US has already begun inoculating children as 'guinea pigs' outlined in the short video report below:

Yes their buying it in preparedness for the upcoming flu season.
And as I've said it's based on the seasonal vaccine which is very safe.

Those children are actually part of the test and are being monitored.

IrelandSpirit wrote: »

Scientists Refuse Swine Flu Vaccine:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bm3WrUDfzGg

SO then these guys have the scientific evidence that the vaccine is dangerous?

IrelandSpirit wrote: »

BTW, even the wiki link you just provided states:
"Pressure for early delivery of vaccine has led some companies to take initial steps toward production of the vaccine before testing has been completed."

Please look closer into Baxter et al

Again this is because they need to be ready for the flu season.

IrelandSpirit · 31-08-2009 08:38PM

bonkey wrote: »

It does indeed.

What it doesn't say is that the vaccine will be delivered before testing is satisfactorily completed.

It doesn't need to, if the production of the vaccine is underway before testing has been satisfactorily completed, the vaccine will therefore be delivered before testing is satisfactorily completed.

The vaccination program has already begun on the population of the US

Captain Furball · 31-08-2009 08:44PM

If what your saying is true IrelandSpirit how can they be so careless?
Do they not have to follow procedure?

31-08-2009 08:47PM

Captain Furball wrote: »

If what your saying is true IrelandSpirit how can they be so careless?
Do they not have to follow procedure?

They are.
Simple as.

bonkey · 31-08-2009 08:50PM

IrelandSpirit wrote: »

It doesn't need to, if the production of the vaccine is underway before testing has been satisfactorily completed, the vaccine will therefore be delivered before testing is satisfactorily completed.

Thats a logical non-sequitor.

It assumes that production times are shorter than testing times, and that delivery will begin as soon as the first batch is ready (as opposed to when delivery quantities are met and testing is completed).

The maths are simple.

If production didn't begin early enough, the deliveries couldn't be made in sufficient quantity within the required timeframe.

From the simplest risk/reward aspects of game theory, the strategy makes sense. If the producers wait until after testing is completed, they lose because they can't meet orders in time. If they start production, they stand the chance of winning big. In an absolute worst case, they have to swallow the loss of an aborted production run.

They run the risk of aborting production in order to stand the chance of a massive windfall. Its economics at its simplest. Its astounding that we've seen people suggest that Big Pharma engineered the flu just to make the profits from vaccination, yet other then balk at the idea that Big Pharma have the audacity to risk losing money in order to earn billions.

Not only that, but its not like there's much new about this vaccine. Its an established production technique...the only realy difference is the strain of flu being used in it. So the risk of loss isn't even that real...and there's probably agreements we haven't heard about which says they'll have any such losses covered if testing fails anyway.

The vaccination program has already begun on the population of the US

Has it?

The latest I've seen is that a program has been approved, not that its been started.

Where has it started?

IrelandSpirit · 31-08-2009 08:54PM

King Mob wrote: »

I'm honestly can't see that anywhere.
Where about is it?

Yes their buying it in preparedness for the upcoming flu season.
And as I've said it's based on the seasonal vaccine which is very safe.

Those children are actually part of the test and are being monitored.

SO then these guys have the scientific evidence that the vaccine is dangerous?

Again this is because they need to be ready for the flu season.

I'm honestly can't see that anywhere.
Where about is it?

Listen to their podcast, it is clear and they are buying this vaccine...

Yes their buying it in preparedness for the upcoming flu season.
And as I've said it's based on the seasonal vaccine which is very safe.

Please research Autism, for a start.....

Those children are actually part of the test and are being monitored.

Those children are therefore being monitored as unsuspecting guinea pigs in a trial vaccine test. I personally that highly irresponsible, to say the least!

SO then these guys have the scientific evidence that the vaccine is dangerous?

Again, please do some more research and arrive at your own opinion...

Again this is because they need to be ready for the flu season.

We can only hope you're right there!

bonkey · 31-08-2009 09:02PM

IrelandSpirit wrote: »

Please research Autism, for a start.....

That's a convenient way of saying "I don't have any actual facts, but think you shoudl provide a counter argument", isn't it?

It has already been pointed out (on this thread, if memory serves) that there is no established link between any vaccination and autism.

If you're trying to suggest otherwise, I'd ask you to provide links to credible medical studies which show otherwise. Otherwise, what you're doing is little more than a cross between handwaving and scaremongering.

Alternately...just research <insert condition of choice here>, if you don't believe that posting on the boards.ie Conspiracy Theories forum isn't bad for you.

uprising · 31-08-2009 09:04PM

King Mob wrote: »

I'm more pro science and against misinformation like uprising is spreading than purely pro vaccine.
But all the lifes vaccination has saved would tend to put it in my good books.

A few weeks older?

Yes I understand the concept fairly well.
If you look back on this thread you'll see I've described it several times.

But I think I'll wait for uprising.

You never answered my question, I asked you to tell me how you think it work's, then I'll tell you how it really works, youv'e made no sense in any discussion so far, your posts are full of "yes it can,no it cant, no it can, yes it cant",
I know how vaccines are supposed to work, I also know that they don't always do what they say on the tin, unlike ronseal.
So you tell me how you believe them to work to begin.
Then I'll get back to you and show you professionals dissmissing whatever you put up.

IrelandSpirit · 31-08-2009 09:06PM

Bonkey, what that sentence means to me is... for example, if I begin production of let's say a new kind of scone, a new recipe, but I'd need to have it tasted first to see it's alright before i can deliver it to you. If i've already begun producing these scones before the recipe is tasted, in other words i have thousands of these scones already produced, they obviously haven't been tasted. Does that makes sense? or have i totally lost the plot! lol

31-08-2009 09:06PM

IrelandSpirit wrote: »

Listen to their podcast, it is clear and they are buying this vaccine...

I can't listen to the podcast at the minute I'm afraid.
What exactly do they say?

IrelandSpirit wrote: »

Please research Autism, for a start.....

I have.
There never has been any scientific link between vaccines and autism.
The prevailing myth is that childhood vaccines cause autism not the flu vaccines.
In fact there is quite a lot of evidence against the notion that vaccines cause autism.

IrelandSpirit wrote: »

Those children are therefore being monitored as unsuspecting guinea pigs in a trial vaccine test. I personally that highly irresponsible, to say the least!

So the evil doctors stole these children away in the night?
the parents hadn't a say in it?

IrelandSpirit wrote: »

Again, please do some more research and arrive at your own opinion...

I have done a lot of research.
I as far as I can see these news report doesn't equal scientific evidence.
Why don't these doctors supply the evidence that the vaccine is dangerous?

IrelandSpirit wrote: »

We can only hope you're right there!

That is the reason they are doing it.
Why else would they?

31-08-2009 09:09PM

uprising wrote: »

You never answered my question, I asked you to tell me how you think it work's, then I'll tell you how it really works, youv'e made no sense in any discussion so far, your posts are full of "yes it can,no it cant, no it can, yes it cant",
I know how vaccines are supposed to work, I also know that they don't always do what they say on the tin, unlike ronseal.
So you tell me how you believe them to work to begin.
Then I'll get back to you and show you professionals dissmissing whatever you put up.

The explanation for how vaccines work is two sentences long dude.
In all that bitching about me you could have shut me right up.

And I have explained how vaccines work plenty of times in this and other threads.

So explain how vaccines are "supposed" to work and the super secret evil way you think they work.

31-08-2009 09:13PM

IrelandSpirit wrote: »

Bonkey, what that sentence means to me is... for example, if I begin production of let's say a new kind of scone, a new recipe, but I'd need to have it tasted first to see it's alright before i can deliver it to you. If i've already begun producing these scones before the recipe is tasted, in other words i have thousands of these scones already produced, they obviously haven't been tasted. Does that makes sense? or have i totally lost the plot! lol

This analogy is only valid if there was some kind of lethal scone shortage on the horizon.

IrelandSpirit · 31-08-2009 09:14PM

Captain Furball wrote: »

If what your saying is true IrelandSpirit how can they be so careless?
Do they not have to follow procedure?

It's my understanding from following a link on a previous post that this is the WHO's procedure in the case of a pandemic like this H1N1 flu. I'll try to find that for ya in a bit, i'm in a crossfire...

uprising · 31-08-2009 09:15PM

King Mob wrote: »

The explanation for how vaccines work is two sentences long dude.
In all that bitching about me you could have shut me right up.

And I have explained how vaccines work plenty of times in this and other threads.

So explain how vaccines are "supposed" to work and the super secret evil way you think they work.

You tell me , then I'll correct you, i have seen nothing but nonsense from your posts so far, and I've had a warning for giving medical advice already, so you tell me how vaccines work.
Also add any information you may have to "DNA and how our DNA structures can/may be altered"

PLEASE POINT OUT TO ME WHERE ON THIS AND OTHER THREADS YOU EXPLAINED HOW VACCINES WORK

IrelandSpirit · 31-08-2009 09:20PM

King Mob wrote: »

This analogy is only valid if there was some kind of lethal scone shortage on the horizon.

Good one! lol

Seriously though, if the production of this vaccine was already underway before testing, then it obviously hasn't been tested before it was produced. I don't know if that makes sense to anybody else, but it's pretty obvios to me.

31-08-2009 09:21PM

uprising wrote: »

You tell me , then I'll correct you, i have seen nothing but nonsense from your posts so far, and I've had a warning for giving medical advice already, so you tell me how vaccines work.
Also add any information you may have to "DNA and how our DNA structures can/may be altered"

Ok you're not getting my point at all.

I believe you don't actually know how vaccines work.
Your response is not to quickly describe how vaccines work but rather "no, you describe it first."

So why not just describe how the evil doctors say vaccines work and then describe how they are wrong.

uprising wrote: »

PLEASE POINT OUT TO ME WHERE ON THIS AND OTHER THREADS YOU EXPLAINED HOW VACCINES WORK

Mmh they were posts you responded to you know right?

31-08-2009 09:27PM

IrelandSpirit wrote: »

Good one! lol

Seriously though, if the production of this vaccine was already underway before testing, then it obviously hasn't been tested before it was produced. I don't know if that makes sense to anybody else, but it's pretty obvios to me.

And the vaccine is based heavily on the seasonal flu which is safe.
The only thing they are really testing to my knowledge is for random or weird reactions.

IrelandSpirit · 31-08-2009 09:33PM

King Mob wrote: »

And the vaccine is based heavily on the seasonal flu which is safe.
The only thing they are really testing to my knowledge is for random or weird reactions.

My point exactly. To my knowledge they are and will be testing for these random and weird reaction on us. Sorry, but i do value my health!

uprising · 31-08-2009 09:33PM

The flu vaccine has been available in America sine 1945. The purpose of this vaccine is to help your body build immunity against harmful organisms that make you sick. Your body, however, is equipped to do this naturally.

The mucous membranes, the vehicle by which most disease-causing organisms enter the body, has a defense system of its own called the IgA immune system. Disease-causing organisms kick the IgA immune system into action to fight off the invaders. When a vaccine is injected into the body, the IgA immune system is skipped over and your body’s immune system is jolted into action.

Your body’s immune system being prodded into action this way is unnatural. Do you realize what is in a vaccine? It could contain either killed or live viruses, thimerasol, antifreeze, formaldehyde, carbolic acid, Neomycin and/or streptomycin.

IMPORTANT INFO RE SWINE FLU

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