Could you go out with a religeous person?

Zillah · 16-03-2009 8:39am

Ok so you're just quibbling over semantics...? I was using the word personality in the casual day to day sense, not the clinical sense. Y'know, that whole "she has a great personality" thing. Where you describe their traits and habits? Regardless, you're not actually arguing with the point I made about religious belief affecting aspects of a person's behaviours and views, you're kind of starting another argument over whether they count as "personality". I don't care, I concede 100%, it has nothing to do with the thread.

Also holy argument resurrection batman!

philologos · 16-03-2009 10:22am

Weidii wrote: »

It would also be interesting to hear the other side of this.

To any religious person who may be reading this:

Could you get into/stay in a relationship with an athiest, agnostic or *gasp* anti theist?

Well I'm a believer so I may as well answer your question:

Could I get into and stay in a relationship with an atheist, agnostic, or anti-theist?

I'd prefer to be in a relationship with a Christian, someone who understands why I am the way I am, and probably someone who would be able to get into deep discussions about things to do with God, and other things. I'm philosophically minded and I think it would be fair to say that most people of faith are.

As for atheist, agnostics, or anti-theist. It depends on how vocal. If any of these could understand the way I am and be willing to understand me better because of it, I don't see how that wound hinder anything. I think in all probability an agnostic would be more compatible with me on these issues than an atheist or an anti-theist. I personally wouldn't be able to tolerate a militant atheist constantly criticising me for my faith. It's a part of me and a part of who I am.

However, I wouldn't be one to rule out other religions either. I think a Jew or a Muslim could be rather compatible due to all three being faiths of Abraham.

Flamed Diving · 16-03-2009 10:48am

Jakkass wrote: »

Well I'm a believer so I may as well answer your question:

Could I get into and stay in a relationship with an atheist, agnostic, or anti-theist?

I'd prefer to be in a relationship with a Christian, someone who understands why I am the way I am, and probably someone who would be able to get into deep discussions about things to do with God, and other things. I'm philosophically minded and I think it would be fair to say that most people of faith are.

As for atheist, agnostics, or anti-theist. It depends on how vocal. If any of these could understand the way I am and be willing to understand me better because of it, I don't see how that wound hinder anything. I think in all probability an agnostic would be more compatible with me on these issues than an atheist or an anti-theist. I personally wouldn't be able to tolerate a militant atheist constantly criticising me for my faith. It's a part of me and a part of who I am.

However, I wouldn't be one to rule out other religions either. I think a Jew or a Muslim could be rather compatible due to all three being faiths of Abraham.

What about when it comes to the issue of raising kids?

Valmont · 16-03-2009 11:41am

Valmont wrote: »

"The fact that someone is religeous suggests something about their personality/mindset to me,"

I was referring to this by the OP and I got the impression he was trying to delineate a causal factor from one's personality that would make someone become religious. I made the point that there isn't even a link between personality and religious belief and I'd rather go by the scientific (almost) definition of personality than the 'day to day' one.

Your casual definition of personality lead you to see a link that doesn't exist. I'm trying to say that belief isn't enough to change someone's personality, which is, according to psychological models, stable and enduring throughout an individual's life. I decided to quibble over the semantics because this is one area I actually know a lot about!

I only started using the 'find all posts by Valmont' option last week so I've found lots of debates that I forgot about or lost.

Goduznt Xzst · 16-03-2009 12:00pm

Jakkass wrote: »

I'd prefer to be in a relationship with a Christian, someone who understands why I am the way I am, and probably someone who would be able to get into deep discussions about things to do with God, and other things.

would you date a strict Catholic? One who didn't believe in sex before marriage, would not use contraceptives and who believed in a torturous hell for unbelievers.

Would you date a Creationist?

TheInquisitor · 16-03-2009 12:08pm

Goduznt Xzst wrote: »

would you date a strict Catholic? One who didn't believe in sex before marriage, would not use contraceptives and who believed in a torturous hell for unbelievers.

Would you date a Creationist?

No and NEVER. I am 100 % atheist. I do not believe in god whatsoever. Enjoy life is my motto! I couldn't go out with or marry a very religious person. Howver i wouldn't have a problem with someone that goes to mass once a week etc. There's no point being overly antagonistic towards religious people. Creationists scientoligists etc i couldn't even stand to talk to. Brain washed sheep as far as im concerned. My question as always to religious larks

Why should you worship a higher being?

Zillah · 16-03-2009 12:15pm

TheInquisitor wrote: »

Why should you worship a higher being?

Because they'll inflict limitless pain upon you for eternity if you don't?

TheInquisitor · 16-03-2009 12:23pm

Zillah wrote: »

Because they'll inflict limitless pain upon you for eternity if you don't?

No pain no gain! Stop being so scared. Look fear in the eyes and then kock it out!

Zillah · 16-03-2009 1:04pm

philologos · 16-03-2009 1:32pm

Flamed Diving wrote: »

What about when it comes to the issue of raising kids?

I thought we were considering going out, rather than marriage. In that respect being a Christian is preferrable certainly.

Goduznt Xzst wrote: »

would you date a strict Catholic? One who didn't believe in sex before marriage, would not use contraceptives and who believed in a torturous hell for unbelievers.

Would you date a Creationist?

1) Would I date a strict Catholic?
Christianity is Christianity irrespective of the denomination. I'm personally not Catholic, but I don't see there being enormous differences.

2) Who didn't believe in sex before marriage?
I don't either, I think waiting until marriage is best.

3) Who would not use contraceptives?
This is something that would have to be discussed at some point probably. There is no Biblical reason to forbid using contraceptives in marriage.

4) Who believed in hell for unbelievers?
I believe that there is such a thing as hell, and I think it's rather clearly depicted in the New Testament in Christ's words. We have been given a means of salvation, it is a choice whether or not to accept or reject.

5) Would I date a Creationist?
Yes, why not? Some good friends of mine are creationists. I don't see it having much of an impact.

The Mad Hatter · 16-03-2009 1:32pm

Enough with the Star Trek facepalms!

Flamed Diving · 16-03-2009 1:37pm

Zillah wrote: »

Because they'll inflict limitless pain upon you for eternity if you don't?

Well, technically he outsources that service.

Flamed Diving · 16-03-2009 1:39pm

Jakkass wrote: »

I thought we were considering going out, rather than marriage. In that respect being a Christian is preferrable certainly.

But lets say you met an agnostic, fell in love and got married.

I'd imagine the style of raising children would be an issue, perhaps.

It's something I have thought about, and I hope I don't have to contend with it.

MrPudding · 16-03-2009 1:40pm

Flamed Diving wrote: »

Well, technically he outsources that service.

Yes, I have heard that Bangalore can be quite hellish...

MrP

Goduznt Xzst · 16-03-2009 2:02pm

Jakkass wrote: »

I don't either, I think waiting until marriage is best.

What if she didn't believe in no sex before marriage?

Jakkass wrote: »

There is no Biblical reason to forbid using contraceptives in marriage.

depends on how you interpret the bible tbh. I'm sure Catholics can "understand" certain scriptures in a way that will give weight to their beliefs about contraception.

Jakkass wrote: »

Yes, why not? Some good friends of mine are creationists. I don't see it having much of an impact.

I suppose it's to be expected, I remember you saying you where a creationist yourself once.

But the question comes back to your children, as Flamed Diving mentioned. If your wife wants your child to be exempt from evolution classes and teaches your child that humans lived alongside dinosaurs you'd be okay with that?

philologos · 16-03-2009 2:35pm

Goduznt Xzst wrote: »

What if she didn't believe in no sex before marriage?

It would be entirely up to her as to whether or not she would be able to tolerate it.

Goduznt Xzst wrote: »

depends on how you interpret the bible tbh. I'm sure Catholics can "understand" certain scriptures in a way that will give weight to their beliefs about contraception.

I really don't think that would be a major issue if I truly was in love with someone I'm sure I could overcome that boundary or that the understanding may change within time.

Goduznt Xzst wrote: »

I suppose it's to be expected, I remember you saying you where a creationist yourself once.

I really doubt the position over whether God created the world in 7 days or not is really going to end a relationship in all reality.

Goduznt Xzst wrote: »

But the question comes back to your children, as Flamed Diving mentioned. If your wife wants your child to be exempt from evolution classes and teaches your child that humans lived alongside dinosaurs you'd be okay with that?

I'd probably encourage that both understandings should be learned in a situation like that.

Flamed Diving wrote: »

But lets say you met an agnostic, fell in love and got married.

I'd imagine the style of raising children would be an issue, perhaps.

It's something I have thought about, and I hope I don't have to contend with it.

Say I did.

I don't think it's much to ask that I would be able to read the Bible to my own child/ren occasionally. That's about the height of it. I've said that being married to a Christian would be preferrable in a case like that, so that I would be able to do that, say grace every so often before meals amongst other things.

I think anyone who would begrudge their Christian spouse to read from the Bible with their children is a touch intolerant though.

Flamed Diving · 16-03-2009 5:50pm

Jakkass wrote: »

I think anyone who would begrudge their Christian spouse to read from the Bible with their children is a touch intolerant though.

I would have no problem with that, as long as there was room for other religions/beliefs in the child's education. I think to encourage a child to be agnostic (ie dont worry about it yet) and open-minded would be the best thing. They can choose what they want once they reach the right age.

MrPudding · 17-03-2009 7:24pm

Jakkass wrote: »

I'd probably encourage that both understandings should be learned in a situation like that.

Both understandings? I suppose you would want your child's school to teach sexual reproduction and the story of the stork as possible options as to where babies come from?

MrP

smileykey · 17-03-2009 8:13pm

I have some very close friends who are very religious but privately so. I could go out with someone like that. The judgemental type who try to push it on you or try to apply their religious standards to my life and my lifestyle, I couldn't. But that's not so much because of their religion, I couldn't date anyone who wouldn't let me be myself or accept that we have different outlooks, beliefs, etc.

Dragan · 18-03-2009 11:14am

Nope, i have done in the past and it always lead to to many issues. I found that while i was more than willing to repect their right to believe they were not willing to respect my right not to.

Flamed Diving · 18-03-2009 11:33am

Dragan wrote: »

Nope, i have done in the past and it always lead to to many issues. I found that while i was more than willing to repect their right to believe they were not willing to respect my right not to.

Very true. It's as if they think that you don't take the topic seriously. Like being an atheist is some flippant decision.

'A confused catholic'

midlandsmissus · 18-03-2009 4:23pm

I think 'religious' is used wrongly in alot of cases. Would you call some-one who believes in God but doesn't believe in organised religion religious?

Cause there is a difference, I certainly don't believe in any of that catholic church tripe

Malari · 18-03-2009 4:35pm

midlandsmissus wrote: »

I think 'religious' is used wrongly in alot of cases. Would you call some-one who believes in God but doesn't believe in organised religion religious?

Cause there is a difference, I certainly don't believe in any of that catholic church tripe

Really? Anyone who believes in a god is religious. Doesn't matter what kind of religion they subscribe to.

midlandsmissus · 18-03-2009 4:39pm

Malari wrote: »

Really? Anyone who believes in a god is religious. Doesn't matter what kind of religion they subscribe to.

Nah there is a difference.

After all there is a difference between agnostic and atheist even though they all basically don't believe in anything.

Handsome Bob · 18-03-2009 4:40pm

Dragan wrote: »

Nope, i have done in the past and it always lead to to many issues. I found that while i was more than willing to repect their right to believe they were not willing to respect my right not to.

How many religious people have you dated that would lead to you make such a de facto statement that you wouldn't date one again because they won't respect your views?

midlandsmissus · 18-03-2009 4:41pm

LZ5by5 wrote: »

How many religious people have you dated that would lead to you make such a de facto statement that you wouldn't date one again because they won't respect your views?

Yeah exactly you can't tar everyone with the same brush. My boyfriend is agnostic for example, and we rarely if ever discuss religion/non religion. It is a private thing.

Malari · 18-03-2009 4:54pm

I'm not tarring anyone, I'm saying that the definition of religious is the belief in god.

That for me is a problem in a relationship because I would feel that I couldn't express myself fully without offending them. Being an atheist is important to me and I wouldn't try to hide it or keep it private. I don't talk about it every day, but I do discuss my thoughts sometimes and it's a big deal to me that I am going out with someone who is also atheist.

Gazza22 · 18-03-2009 5:00pm

I don't think i could go out with a very religious person, no. I could respect their views if they kept them to themselves but unfortunately religious people are not in the habit of keeping their views to themselves!

philologos · 18-03-2009 5:19pm

Malari wrote: »

I'm not tarring anyone, I'm saying that the definition of religious is the belief in god.

That for me is a problem in a relationship because I would feel that I couldn't express myself fully without offending them. Being an atheist is important to me and I wouldn't try to hide it or keep it private. I don't talk about it every day, but I do discuss my thoughts sometimes and it's a big deal to me that I am going out with someone who is also atheist.

That isn't entirely true. Being a theist is different from being religious.

However I have to say Christianity is a religion, there is a movement amongst more charismatic Christians to suggest that it isn't for some reason, I never quite understood that, then again I go to a rather traditional usually

Gazza22 wrote: »

I don't think i could go out with a very religious person, no. I could respect their views if they kept them to themselves but unfortunately religious people are not in the habit of keeping their views to themselves!

In fairness two points to be made here:

1) Most of the atheists and agnostics I have met are rather vocal indeed on religion, so I don't think that excuse cuts it.

2) Religion isn't a private thing to be kept to oneself. I was watching a youtube video by an atheist who was given a Bible by a Christian after doing standup or something, I think he was a comedian, and anyway, he said that if you are a Christian and if you believe in the salvation of others you'd be a monster if you didn't evangelise.

Secondly, if religion defines who someone is, it is going to be pretty much visible. I don't think my Christianity causes much problems to my friends, who are mostly agnostic, some atheists and indeed I've had some very interesting discussions with people about it. Most of whom approached me first on and one to one level.

Malari · 18-03-2009 5:25pm

But how else would you define religious? You don't have to be belonging to a named religion.

midlandsmissus · 18-03-2009 5:33pm

Malari wrote: »

I'm not tarring anyone, I'm saying that the definition of religious is the belief in god.

That for me is a problem in a relationship because I would feel that I couldn't express myself fully without offending them. Being an atheist is important to me and I wouldn't try to hide it or keep it private. I don't talk about it every day, but I do discuss my thoughts sometimes and it's a big deal to me that I am going out with someone who is also atheist.

That's funny because I find that in the last 2 years it is atheists who constantly try to push their their views on me, more than any religious person.

To an atheist if you don't believe exactly what they believe you are either called 'stupid', 'of limited intelligence' or generally 'crazy'.

Though I suppose either side will think there is more persecution from the other, as you don't recognise it as much on the side of belief that you are on.

Gazza22 · 18-03-2009 5:50pm

Jakkass wrote: »

In fairness two points to be made here:

1) Most of the atheists and agnostics I have met are rather vocal indeed on religion, so I don't think that excuse cuts it.

2) Religion isn't a private thing to be kept to oneself. I was watching a youtube video by an atheist who was given a Bible by a Christian after doing standup or something, I think he was a comedian, and anyway, he said that if you are a Christian and if you believe in the salvation of others you'd be a monster if you didn't evangelise.

Secondly, if religion defines who someone is, it is going to be pretty much visible. I don't think my Christianity causes much problems to my friends, who are mostly agnostic, some atheists and indeed I've had some very interesting discussions with people about it. Most of whom approached me first on and one to one level.

Yeah i agree with you, it isn't just one sided. Atheists may at times be even more vocal because we tend to be challenging opinions a lot more.

While i understand religious people may feel that they should share their faith, it makes me uncomfortable probably because i'm an Atheist and i keep my thoughts private unless questioned - which is always by a religious person in my experience.

Genghiz Cohen · 18-03-2009 6:04pm

midlandsmissus wrote: »

To an atheist if you don't believe exactly what they believe you are either called 'stupid', 'of limited intelligence' or generally 'crazy'.

I agree.

Gambler · 18-03-2009 6:05pm

I guess it all depends on what sort of a relationship it is. The big problem is if you have fundamentally different opinions on the existence of a god then in the long run you are going to have "issues". For example, do you baptise your kids? How would you like your remains to be dealt with?

In the long run a relationship is about compatibility and given how important some peoples religious beliefs are to them it can be a make or break issue. If you are going out with someone who has never really considered the matter in any real sense then it's a different issue, there are a lot of people who believe (or not) by default because they've never actually thought about what it means to believe (or not as the case may be

)

pseudonym1 · 18-03-2009 9:56pm

Gazza22 wrote: »

I don't think i could go out with a very religious person, no. I could respect their views if they kept them to themselves but unfortunately religious people are not in the habit of keeping their views to themselves!

In the risk of generalising I think the same could be said of A&A..

Malari · 19-03-2009 10:11am

midlandsmissus wrote: »

That's funny because I find that in the last 2 years it is atheists who constantly try to push their their views on me, more than any religious person.

But that's what I'm trying to say. I'm not "pushing" my views but I'm outspoken about them and that is only compatible with someone else who shares those views.

midlandsmissus wrote: »

To an atheist if you don't believe exactly what they believe you are either called 'stupid', 'of limited intelligence' or generally 'crazy'.

And yet you still seem surprised that an atheist would want to go out with one of the people they label in this way?

midlandsmissus wrote: »

Though I suppose either side will think there is more persecution from the other, as you don't recognise it as much on the side of belief that you are on.

All I'm saying is within a relationship there are lots of things I would say to my partner that I wouldn't share with other people. If this is the opinion that religious people are crazy then it doesn't matter as long as it doesn't offend him.

philologos · 19-03-2009 10:49am

Malari wrote: »

And yet you still seem surprised that an atheist would want to go out with one of the people they label in this way?

I personally don't really care if an atheist would consider me in that way. Infact I would consider it their issue rather than mine. I really don't think there is much basis to suggest that theists are less intelligent than atheists. Actually it kind of comes off like chucking a demographic into a group which are "inferior". However, if that's what makes your day, sobeit.

Malari wrote: »

All I'm saying is within a relationship there are lots of things I would say to my partner that I wouldn't share with other people. If this is the opinion that religious people are crazy then it doesn't matter as long as it doesn't offend him.

I wouldn't say that I find atheists crazy, but I never could come to the same conclusion that they come to, and I would consider them mistaken and mistaken where it actually counts.

Heisenberg. · 19-03-2009 10:51am

This post has been deleted.

Malari · 19-03-2009 11:05am

Jakkass wrote: »

I personally don't really care if an atheist would consider me in that way. Infact I would consider it their issue rather than mine. I really don't think there is much basis to suggest that theists are less intelligent than atheists. Actually it kind of comes off like chucking a demographic into a group which are "inferior". However, if that's what makes your day, sobeit.

I wouldn't say that I find atheists crazy, but I never could come to the same conclusion that they come to, and I would consider them mistaken and mistaken where it actually counts.

Look, I was just illustrating a point, I'm not saying that I am of the opinion that religious people are crazy or whatever. I'm just saying that from this thread it seems very apparent that even a very mild conversation in the direction of the existence of a god within a relationship might raise fundamental differences of opinion. And because this is such a sensitive issue, I can't see myself having the same arguement with a partner over religion.

With friends it almost never comes up. Within a relationship I think it comes up a lot more with declared atheists. I'm sure there are plenty of people who never discuss it at all and have never really thought about god much.

Helix · 24-03-2009 4:19pm

i definitely couldnt go out with an uber religious person tbh, its not something i find attractive, more a character flaw than anything

dioltas · 26-03-2009 3:19pm

I'd go out with a religious person. Wouldn't bother me tbh, so long as they didn't expect me to go to mass every week!
I'd go once in a good while to keep them happy if I had to. Don't think that would make me a hippocryte, I mean plenty of girls go to football / rugby matches to keep their bfs happy even if they have no interest.

Malari · 26-03-2009 3:30pm

dioltas wrote: »

I'd go out with a religious person. Wouldn't bother me tbh, so long as they didn't expect me to go to mass every week!
I'd go once in a good while to keep them happy if I had to. Don't think that would make me a hippocryte, I mean plenty of girls go to football / rugby matches to keep their bfs happy even if they have no interest.

:pac: They may go to keep them happy but at least they have no problem believing that all the players actually exist!

acontadino · 26-03-2009 7:04pm

no i find it disturbing.

26-03-2009 7:12pm

Jakkass wrote: »

I personally don't really care if an atheist would consider me in that way. Infact I would consider it their issue rather than mine.

Malari said "go out with someone like that " , not just "label them". Ofc it's their issue whether they want to GO OUT WITH someone or not.

Ickle Magoo · 27-03-2009 12:59am

I don't think I have ever gone out with someone who was very religious...none of the Church every Sunday & Grace before meals variety anyway.

There are lots of little aspects of personality & the way people choose to live their lives that I don't find sexually attractive & tbh, an enthusiasm for religion would be one of them. I've dated non-practising theists & agnostics so it's not a case of ruling someone out before I even know them just for believing in God. If anything, I've been quite attracted to a religious person until they started getting "too" religious & I just find that a complete turn-off - not intentionally, it just is.

Certainly in terms of long-term relationships or marriage, I just couldn't be bothered clashing or having to compromise against my own judgement of raising children on every christening, baptism, school, etc argument.

I think I have always just been more attracted to men, probably somewhat subconsciously, who hold the same core (non?)beliefs as myself, even if we have different likes or dislikes in other respects.

Flamed Diving · 27-03-2009 9:31am

Ickle Magoo wrote: »

I don't think I have ever gone out with someone who was very religious...none of the Church every Sunday & Grace before meals variety anyway.

There are lots of little aspects of personality & the way people choose to live their lives that I don't find sexually attractive & tbh, an enthusiasm for religion would be one of them. I've dated non-practising theists & agnostics so it's not a case of ruling someone out before I even know them just for believing in God. If anything, I've been quite attracted to a religious person until they started getting "too" religious & I just find that a complete turn-off - not intentionally, it just is.

Certainly in terms of long-term relationships or marriage, I just couldn't be bothered clashing or having to compromise against my own judgement of raising children on every christening, baptism, school, etc argument.

I think I have always just been more attracted to men, probably somewhat subconsciously, who hold the same core (non?)beliefs as myself, even if we have different likes or dislikes in other respects.

Fancy a pint and a Ruby?

Could you go out with a religeous person?

Comments