A YES vote for Lisbon is a YES vote for ushering in the New World Order.

Run_to_da_hills · 14-03-2009 10:31am

bonkey wrote: »

You make it sound like none of these are valid concerns.

There is a very fine balance between environmental concern and invoking fascism and eroding our civil liberties.

The method used for calculating the congestion charge in London is a perfect example. As each car enters London City they are tracked live right across the city by accurate ANPR CCTV and all nformation is retained by the police for several years.

In the not so distant future you will be charged carbon taxes on each and every consumer product you purchase, everything will be rated on a scale and will be calculated via the barcode and scanned off your personal electronic cash card. You will be heavily penalized if you exceed the quota.

Your purchasing habits and movements will also be monitored with each purchase and stored on a database.

Martyr · 14-03-2009 10:44am

Your purchasing habits and movements will also be monitored with each purchase and stored on a database.

alot of peoples buying habits have been stored in databases for years..
most people use credit cards, and don't forget those silly "club" cards from the big supermarket chains.

voting no won't turn back the clocks.

4arc · 14-03-2009 11:05am

i discussed this world order theory with people many times and the best response i got was that perhaps this is the natural progression of the human race, to be lead by a smaller number of leaders, and when you think about it, it kinda makes sense,

perhaps, with increased relations between states (formerly known as countries) there would be an end to;
war
poverty
pollution
crime

as far as the whole microchipped thing goes though, im not convinced.

Run_to_da_hills · 14-03-2009 11:17am

Martyr wrote: »

voting no won't turn back the clocks.

May not turn the clocks back but what it can do is hand power away from the Oireachtas over to the abiss.

Martyr · 14-03-2009 11:33am

poverty
pollution
crime

if the smaller governments/leaders can't solve these issues on their own turf now, honestly can't see it getting better with a more centralised authority..it will definitely get worse.

May not turn the clocks back but what it can do is hand power away from the Oireachtas over to the abiss.

well, i believe irelands economic success is primarily due to membership of the EU..not those clowns in the Oireachtas.
Lots of money was pumped into the infrastructure of this island from EU members.

dismiss if you want, but without the EU its hard to know what state this country would be in now.

our leaders had opportunity to do great things but because of corrupt politics, unfortunately that chance has been missed.

we're already in the hands of EU now, and have been for many years.

just my own opinion of course..

King Mob · 14-03-2009 12:06pm

Still waiting for RtdH to point out a single hole in the Lisbon treaty.

Run_to_da_hills · 14-03-2009 4:16pm

King Mob wrote: »

Still waiting for RtdH to point out a single hole in the Lisbon treaty.

I am not allied discuss holes in the Lisbon threaty on this forum.

Maybe bring the subject up in the appropriate EU Politics forum.

Flamed Diving · 14-03-2009 4:21pm

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

I am not allied discuss holes in the Lisbon threaty on this forum.

No, you just not allowed to do it with pictures.

King Mob · 14-03-2009 4:24pm

I'm pretty sure the holes in the Lisbon treaty which you think the NWO wish to exploit are fairly relevant.

Stop waffling and point out these holes you keep talking about.

bonkey · 14-03-2009 4:27pm

to be fair, RTDH is correct here. The discussion of holes is only relevant here in terms of those holes being leveraged as part of the Conspiracy that the Treaty is supposed to be part of.

King Mob · 14-03-2009 4:31pm

bonkey wrote: »

to be fair, RTDH is correct here. The discussion of holes is only relevant here in terms of those holes being leveraged as part of the Conspiracy that the Treaty is supposed to be part of.

Well given he believes the entire European union is a conspiracy, I'd imagine these "holes" are part of this conspiracy.

WakeUp · 17-03-2009 2:10pm

I don’t believe the Lisbon treaty is good for the people of Ireland or the people of Europe. It is no more a “treaty” than my flute, it’s really an EU constitution. The rest of the European Union did not get a chance to vote last June, we did because our constitution demanded it, if Lisbon is passed sometime in the future it will be the last time we the people have the power to veto anything EU related.

Just to pre-empt people who will ask me have I read the “treaty”?,.. yes I have read parts of it by no means cover to cover and I didn’t understand a lot of the technical lingo involved , but as someone else has already pointed out earlier in the thread its not exactly easy for your average person to read or comprehend the complete substance of the text verbatim……..

Some might say that’s intentional……

“The difference between the original Constitution and the present Lisbon Treaty is one of approach, rather than content … The proposals in the original constitutional treaty are practically unchanged. They have simply been dispersed through the old treaties in the form of amendments. Why this subtle change? Above all, to head off any threat of referenda by avoiding any form of constitutional vocabulary … But lift the lid and look in the toolbox: all the same innovative and effective tools are there, just as they were carefully crafted by the European Convention.”
- V.Giscard D’Estaing, former French President and Chairman of the Convention which
drew up the EU Constitution, The Independent, London, 30 October 2007

“They decided that the document should be unreadable. If it is unreadable, it is not constitutional, that was the sort of perception. Where they got this perception from is a mystery to me. In order to make our citizens happy, to produce a document that they will never understand! But, there is some truth [in it]. Because if this is the kind of document that the IGC will produce, any Prime Minister - imagine the UK Prime Minister - can go to the Commons and say ‘Look, you see, it’s absolutely unreadable, it’s the typical Brussels treaty, nothing new, no need for a referendum.’ Should you succeed in understanding it at first sight there might be some reason for a referendum, because it would mean that there is something new.”
- Giuliano Amato, former Italian Prime Minister and Vice-Chairman of the Convention which drew up the EU Constitution, recorded by Open Europe, The Centre for European Reform, London, 12 July 2007

“The aim of the Constitutional Treaty was to be more readable; the aim of this treaty is to be unreadable … The Constitution aimed to be clear, whereas this treaty had to be unclear. It is a success.
- Karel de Gucht, Belgian Foreign Minister, Flandreinfo, 23 June 2007

People have already touched on this but its extremely important imo with regard to changes in the Law system and who has the final say in some Law matters.

If Lisbon is passed it will establish a legally quite new European Union in the constitutional form of a Federal EU State.

Lisbon would turn Ireland into a provincial or regional state within this new Union, with the EU’s Constitution and laws being made superior to the Irish Constitution and laws in any case of conflict between the two.

It would be the end of Ireland’s position as an independent sovereign State in the international community of States (Arts. 1 and 47 TEU; Declaration No. 17 concerning Primacy);

When we were told to vote for the treaty we were voting to amend our constitution also.
These are the two key sentences of the proposed amendment with the most important words in bold…

“… The State may ratify the Treaty of Lisbon signed at Lisbon on the 13th day of December 2007, and may be a member of the European Union established by virtue of that Treaty. No provision of this [Irish] Constitution invalidates laws enacted, acts done or measures adopted by the State that are necessitated by membership of the European Union, or prevents laws enacted, acts done or measures adopted by the said European Union or by institutions thereof, or by bodies competent under the treaties referred to in this section, from having the force of law in the State…” (28th Amendment of the Constitution Bill, 2008.

If Lisbon is passed then technically speaking, EU law will trump Irish law in many instances that isn’t speculation its fact.

It hands over to the EU the power to make laws binding on us in 32 new policy areas, such as crime, justice and policing, public services, immigration, energy, transport, tourism, sport, culture, public health, the EU budget etc.

Lisbon will give the EU Court of Justice the power to decide our rights as EU citizens - Ireland’s Supreme Court would no longer have the final say (Art.6 TEU).

Personally I don’t want somebody in Brussels or wherever with that much power over such a wide range of policies affecting everyday life those are matters for Irish people to decide and nobody else I think it dangerous to give unaccountable people such control over our lives they have enough power as it is.

I think the Lisbon treaty is a trick a stealthy power grab if you will, I don’t think its good for Ireland I hope it never sees the light of day.

mysterious · 17-03-2009 9:05pm

A great informative post there wakeup:)

It's cant be much farther from the truth at this stage with regards to this stinking treaty. I don't even know why the elite have the neck for a re vote.

This treaty, if passed, will go down the same road as what's happening in America by changing the consitution that was originally in place, to suits the goals of the elite. The elites are showing this already. The constution will have so much over your neck, you will not have the freedom of choice anymore. Anyone who votes yes, your name is on this curse.

Once this is passed, a year later the next treaty will go ahead, and we won't even have a referendum. Its the elites sexual desire, to further root in print black and white to tell you what is and what's not.

This treaty for yes in smaller words, is the next step closer to hell....

mysterious · 17-03-2009 9:10pm

King Mob wrote: »

Well given he believes the entire European union is a conspiracy, I'd imagine these "holes" are part of this conspiracy.

It is, the re vote is a conspiracy. The complications of it is too. Why would the elite actually make black and white print hard to understand. I mean if in print, surely they could of made it easier to read. But they had to make it more complex as Ireland is the only country in Europe that has to have a referendum. They thought (or well in my view) we would vote yes out of ignorance.

We didn't like the smell of it anyway. So we voted no. I was middle ground the last time on this treaty. Now I'm hell NO, as it quite simply is a conspiracy. if this is a treaty we vote for, and Europe is a "domocracy" Then why a revote? why a super army? Why pay more taxes? why take more of our individualism with our own nations? why more money for millitary spending? Why is it goo for Ireland?

Why should we be blackmailed and disrespected for our own views and choices for our needs as a nation?

If we vote no again, will they bully us againt inappropriately? Would it be a conspiracy then would it not?

I tell you what's the biggest conspiracy of this. Europe wanting a super army. A super Army against who? Why is Europe wanting to up on the millitary side of things. When Europe post second world war wanted to get rid of this baggage all together.

You have to start paying attention to the behaviour and agendas going on In Europe, it is not good at all. I mean seriously.

mysterious · 17-03-2009 9:18pm

King Mob wrote: »

I'm pretty sure the holes in the Lisbon treaty which you think the NWO wish to exploit are fairly relevant.

Stop waffling and point out these holes you keep talking about.

Lisbon treaty is one big hole.... I wish it wouldn't see light of day again. There is no benifet to me. Why should I put my name down for something, when I cant decide what I want (once this is passed) for Europe the next time a treaty comes around. What if a new treaty (which you bet will come) takes control of our political laws that are subject to only our country been removed.

If I don't agree with Europe overstepping the line, how can I as an adult then put my voice out their, when treaties will be automatically ratfied. This is going to be the future scenario if lisbon is given the YES.

We wont be having a referendum, it's our stupid corrupt politicians that will be passing these new treaties. I'm sorry but this is very concerning aspect to me. This is really disturbing, conisdering they rejected our vote already. You know we could of compromised on these issues with lisbon, but the European elites. We like No... This to me is dispicable and very politically incorrect. It's a sign of rulership and pure ignorance on their behalf.

So Is Europe really all it's cracked up to be?

Kernel · 17-03-2009 11:46pm

mysterious wrote: »

It's cant be much farther from the truth at this stage with regards to this stinking treaty. I don't even know why the elite have the neck for a re vote.

Well, the elites do as they please nowadays, and the plebs sure as hell aren't going to stop them.

They did the same with the Nice Treaty after all.

K-9 · 17-03-2009 11:50pm

Kernel wrote: »

Well, the elites do as they please nowadays, and the plebs sure as hell aren't going to stop them.

They did the same with the Nice Treaty after all.

Indeed, forced us to vote yes.

oscarBravo · 17-03-2009 11:51pm

WakeUp wrote: »

...if Lisbon is passed sometime in the future it will be the last time we the people have the power to veto anything EU related.

Just to pre-empt people who will ask me have I read the “treaty”?,.. yes I have read parts of it by no means cover to cover and I didn’t understand a lot of the technical lingo involved , but as someone else has already pointed out earlier in the thread its not exactly easy for your average person to read or comprehend the complete substance of the text verbatim……..

If the treaty is so complex, and you haven't read it, how can you state with confidence that it will remove our "veto"?

If Lisbon is passed it will establish a legally quite new European Union in the constitutional form of a Federal EU State.

Can you reference the text in the Lisbon Treaty that will have this effect?

Tell you what: why not search the text of the Treaty (it's available online) for the word "Federal" and tell us what you find?

It would be the end of Ireland’s position as an independent sovereign State in the international community of States (Arts. 1 and 47 TEU; Declaration No. 17 concerning Primacy);

Can you reference the section of the Treaty that would end our position as an independent sovereign state?

When we were told to vote for the treaty we were voting to amend our constitution also.

You have it backwards. We were only asked to vote on whether we should amend our constitution: a constitutional amendment is deemed to be necessary to allow the government to legally ratify the treaty.

These are the two key sentences of the proposed amendment with the most important words in bold…

“… The State may ratify the Treaty of Lisbon signed at Lisbon on the 13th day of December 2007, and may be a member of the European Union established by virtue of that Treaty. No provision of this [Irish] Constitution invalidates laws enacted, acts done or measures adopted by the State that are necessitated by membership of the European Union, or prevents laws enacted, acts done or measures adopted by the said European Union or by institutions thereof, or by bodies competent under the treaties referred to in this section, from having the force of law in the State…” (28th Amendment of the Constitution Bill, 2008.

Are you familiar with article 29.4.10 of the Irish Constitution?

mysterious · 18-03-2009 12:06am

oscarBravo wrote: »

?Can you reference the section of the Treaty that would end our position as an independent sovereign state? You have it backwards.

That was just really really really silly as a point. Do you really think the elite would write something as blunt as we want to end our position as an independant state.

This sh!t is planned over Y-E-A-R-S. It's S-T-E-P by S-T-E-P process.

This treaty, once passed, is for the next one. and the next

Until we are all robot walking toys. Our countries are already diieing. Langauges are perishing. Most Europeans want to speak English. Our media networks are not here to inform us, but to mis inform us. The big brother and finger touch systems in workplaces. All of this is part of the globalist agenda.

The lisbon treaty IS part of this. And this is the first step to end this country as we know it.

So of course they are not going to spell it out on the treaty:rolleyes: Look at the bigger picture.

We were only asked to vote on whether we should amend our constitution: a constitutional amendment is deemed to be necessary to allow the government to legally ratify the treaty. Are you familiar with article 29.4.10 of the Irish Constitution?

Well eventually if lisbon is passed, another toooooooehhh point nine foooooreeewwwe bit eight comes out. Saying that governments will have total amendmant of ratifying our treaties.

So its basically obvious as to whats IS happening RIGHT now.

mysterious · 18-03-2009 12:10am

Kernel wrote: »

Well, the elites do as they please nowadays, and the plebs sure as hell aren't going to stop them.

They did the same with the Nice Treaty after all.

They won't put me in a cage!

I would even risk my own life, I do NOT believe in global slavery of mankind, and I will be damned if I sit back and watch this bullsh!t go on longer

Bear in mind there is a mass awakening happening. So they may do what they want, but they are chasing the wool stings more. They will fail.

Nature will teach them the hard way. Most humans are not that bright when it comes to trying to learn from history. The majority of us tend to repeat it, no matter how rich, poor, weak or powerful your position is.

This time is the final straw from the hay

oscarBravo · 18-03-2009 10:38am

mysterious wrote: »

That was just really really really silly as a point. Do you really think the elite would write something as blunt as we want to end our position as an independant state.

I see. So your claim is that the Lisbon Treaty will end our position as an independent state, even though - by your own implicit admission - there's nothing in the Treaty that actually says this.

Any chance you'd explain the mechanism by which our sovereignty will be removed, if not by the wording of the treaty you claim will remove it?

This sh!t is planned over Y-E-A-R-S. It's S-T-E-P by S-T-E-P process.

This treaty, once passed, is for the next one. and the next

Which of those future treaties will have wording in it that explicitly removes our independent sovereignty?

Well eventually if lisbon is passed, another toooooooehhh point nine foooooreeewwwe bit eight comes out.

I'm confused. Do you, or do you not, know what the text of article 29.4.10 of our constitution says?

Also, how did you get on searching for "Federal" in the Treaty?

Saying that governments will have total amendmant of ratifying our treaties.

I have no idea what that means.

So its basically obvious as to whats IS happening RIGHT now.

It certainly is, but what's obvious to you is obviously very different from what's obvious to me.

meglome · 18-03-2009 4:01pm

oscarBravo wrote: »

It certainly is, but what's obvious to you is obviously very different from what's obvious to me.

It seems our Mysterious friend has a higher level of understanding than the rest of us. It's not him, it's all of us, yes siree.

mysterious · 18-03-2009 4:11pm

oscarBravo wrote: »

I see. So your claim is that the Lisbon Treaty will end our position as an independent state, even though - by your own implicit admission - there's nothing in the Treaty that actually says this.

Are you able to grasp the bigger picture.

A con artist will never actually tell you hes gonna rob your bag. As you put, a con artist/politician is never going to write it down and tell you that either.

We are going to have to explain this again to you. This is part of awakening we all should start learning to be aware of.

The elite can only make this a reality, by planning and preparing step by step. The elite are not going to show you the end result. They are not going to show you the final plot to their agenda. They are not going to put all of the goals into one treaty. And I never said this treaty will end our country as we know it.

It's a step. Like a stairs. You can't reach the top of the stairs by only going one step up.

Seriously Oscar, please actually try and look at this with more attention and awarness. You might see some hidden truths.

P.S you actually believe lisbon is a good thing? Do you actually think Lisbon is the final treaty for this Elite agenda of Europe? Do you actually think this is good for Ireland?

I seriously want to know, because I do find your responses rather vague and close minded on whats really going on.

Any chance you'd explain the mechanism by which our sovereignty will be removed, if not by the wording of the treaty you claim will remove it? Which of those future treaties will have wording in it that explicitly removes our independent sovereignty? I'm confused. Do you, or do you not, know what the text of article 29.4.10 of our constitution says?

Do you not get it seriously. Your questions to me do seem downright shocking.

I have to bold this, because this is hurting my brain at this stage. The Elite are not going to put in print, that our sovereignty will be removed as in actual print. If it were the case people would rip the treaty up. You are going to have to start looking at this more constructively and clear headed. The governments are not on your side, they are not doing it for the love of us. My perception here, is you fully have faith in these governments based on your defence of this treaty in black and white. Governments have a history of distorting words and laws to their benifet and twist them around for another cause.

The elite have an "agenda" the lisbon treaty is the "first" step to this. the "end" result will make the reality of our country ending as we know it the final conclusion.

You on this hand, keep putting the final conclusion to this treaty. This treaty will be the first of many. Like in USA the 9/11 inside job allowed America to be turned into a big brother society. They didn't just say in law that they are taking civil liberties from people. They need to fufill their agendas by doing so, creating false flag terrorist atrocities such as 9/11. A first step in allowing the government to control and monitor everything you do. This is another form where the government seek ways to control us more.

In Europe they are doing the same thing with these bullsh!t treaties. I don't know whether you see it like that. But the fact is the elite are not giving up until this is passed is a sure sign of a real underlying agenda.

Anyone who believes everything the government write in print obviously needs a wake up call. Government break their own laws.

As the US Bush administration did with previous acts in wars, the UN and ripping up of their constution to a dictatorship almost.

Bush declares war on any country he likes, as many people in the constituion on both parties asked why was he going against the people of America on this war. Ah it's only a piece of paper.

A piece of paper is whats controlling your life. But it doesn't seem to control the elite. This lisbon treaty is an example. Once signed you cant go back. Seriously people look at the simple reality here and stop getting bogg down with the confusion of this treaty. It's deliberate in the attempts to make it confusing so we will not fully understand it and just vote yes, out of less hassle.

meglome · 18-03-2009 4:18pm

Kernel wrote: »

Well, the elites do as they please nowadays, and the plebs sure as hell aren't going to stop them.

The only thing is Kernel the so called elites had way more power in the past. People have more power now than they ever had in history. Some may not feel more fulfilled and they may feel helpless but it doesn't change the facts.

And Mysterious if I can sum up what your saying here. The treaty does not actually contain any of the bad things you're suggesting but they are going to do these bad things anyway. So why not just vote in the treaty is it's not going to make a damn bit of difference.

K-9 · 18-03-2009 4:21pm

In fairness Mysterious has logical reasons for voting No, unlike many No voters and yep, before somebody wastes their time pointing it out, Yes voters.

mysterious · 18-03-2009 4:23pm

meglome wrote: »

The only thing is Kernel the so called elites had way more power in the past. People have more power now than they ever had in history. Some may not feel more fulfilled and they may feel helpless but it doesn't change the facts.

You do, if your empowered, but with all this big brother watch, and technology tracking your every move. It's not as simplistic as that.

In this day and age, you have to be really enlightened and more intutive to be ahead and empowered.

People are awakening right now, only because it just took one or two to make the first changes. People naturally follow. It's natures cycles.

But your facts is incorrect. There are far more mis lead people today than there ever was in history. There is far more hunger and division than there ever was. To the point of a threatening WW3. The world is going through a very deceptive and unknown period.

meglome · 18-03-2009 4:25pm

K-9 wrote: »

In fairness Mysterious has logical reasons for voting No, unlike many No voters and yep, before somebody wastes their time pointing it out, Yes voters.

But he openly admits that the things he's saying are definitely going to happen are not in the treaty at all.

mysterious · 18-03-2009 4:28pm

meglome wrote: »

But he openly admits that the things he's saying are definitely going to happen are not in the treaty at all.

Well vote yes and blindly believe them then.

Is it not obvious. Leaders create your reality. It's pretty logical what is going to happen. It's already started. Europe is already turning it's back on Ireland by disrespecting our vote.

I'm just aware of what they are doing right now. It's only natural they have an agenda to further force us to vote yes.

meglome · 18-03-2009 4:30pm

mysterious wrote: »

But your facts is incorrect. There are far more mis lead people today than there ever was in history. There is far more hunger and division than there ever was. To the point of a threatening WW3. The world is going through a very deceptive and unknown period.

When in history have people had more power exactly?

I actually agree with you about people being mislead though. I mean Alex Jones has a big following so that's a big chunk of mislead people right there.

mysterious · 18-03-2009 4:32pm

meglome wrote: »

But he openly admits that the things he's saying are definitely going to happen are not in the treaty at all.

This is what many Americans thought like just after 9/11. The government couldn't of planned this, and people were saying all along they did it.

Many people like you who are not fully aware IMO (judging by your post) will just give the government the benifet of the doubt. Look at how the governments have slowly torn our away our freedoms and liberties since 9/11.

People didn't believe the people who kept telling them what the governemtns are doing. But some of you will learned the hard way and get stung in the ass. This is my exact point about been aware

Be in control of your reality.

A YES vote for Lisbon is a YES vote for ushering in the New World Order.

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