Man murdered by youth(s) after home attacked(yes it happened in Ireland)

OK-Cancel-Apply · 12-12-2008 01:44PM

gazzer wrote: »

The guy who was killed in East Wall was a convicted drug dealer??? Where did you read that?

If that's the case, why are people complaining? The 13-year-old only did what most people on this thread would have done to him!

Dave! · 12-12-2008 01:48PM

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/no-drug-link-to-murder-but-mechanic-served-time-in-cuba-1568806.html

http://www.herald.ie/national-news/okane-murder-lsquoyoursquoll-need-more-than-a-glock-to-defend-yourselfrsquo-1570136.html

As the East Wall community, where he lived in Shelmalier Rd for the past 10 months, remained numbed at the brutality of his murder, it emerged that the victim had a criminal record.

Mr O’Kane had fled from Ireland 14 years ago while awaiting trial on a drugs charge.

In addition gardai established that he had served 11 years in a Cuban prison after a drugs conviction there, while on the run from the authorities here.

gazzer · 12-12-2008 01:54PM

Another article in the Herald about some more scumbag activity in East Wall
http://www.herald.ie/national-news/city-news/teenage-hooligans-drove-young-couple-from-their-home-1570901.html

Zulu · 12-12-2008 01:56PM

RedPlanet wrote: »

So you want:

- legislation to hold parents accountable for their kids actions.

1) legislation where parents can be help accountable for the actions of their child, while the child is a minor.
2) for you to read the rest of the thread
3) to hear your solution - or do you have another intention in this thread?

Terry wrote: »

Normally I'd ban someone for this, but in this case I really believe it is deserved.
This is not to be seen as a prescedent though.

Thank you Terry.

RedPlanet · 12-12-2008 01:56PM

A bit of tabloidism from Dave! ?
None of those links indicate the man was a convicted drug dealer as you claim.
He apparently spent time in a Cuban jail for "drugs conviction" but the article doesn't state what that drugs conviction was, therefore you cannot claim he was dealing drugs. He may have only been in possession of drugs.
You don't know, neither do I.

Scallop · 12-12-2008 01:56PM

That was a long time ago.
That man was reformed from whatever it was he did and had made a new life for himself since living in Clontarf and so on.

The scum were jealous of this and the fact he asked them not to come to his house anymore re helping them out ( teaching them mechanics etc) as they were abusing it.......... as they do everything

This man was an innocent man. These scum are not.

HAGI · 12-12-2008 03:08PM

Darragh29 wrote: »

One thing I've noticed is the complete lack of any outcry around the East Wall area about this, they don't seem too bothered at all by this. I don't see much by way of posts from anyone living in East Wall on here either, kind of says a lot about the whole community over there...

how can you possibly say this ?
from what i've seen there is like 3 people actually living in east wall on here
of course this is a disgraceful act which no person should support
i just cant believe your basically saying we support this murder . which is furthest from the truth , no murder is right no matter the consequences
are you living in east wall yourself ?
if not you would not be able to see its all thats been talked about .
only last night a collection went around the whole of east wall for aidan's family.

so your statement is by all means over the top

Bodie Doyle · 12-12-2008 03:33PM

Darragh29 wrote: »

Just making the remark that you lot don't seem too put out by what happened to that man.

How did you come to the conclusion that you lot (me included) don't seem too put out by what happened. The people in the area are genuinely shocked at the murder and i know that you might find this hard to believe but the good people of East Wall find it hard to believe that a murder could happen on their doorstep.
Yes there is a gang of teenagers causing trouble but as we are law abiding citizens we thought that the gardai would deal with them. Do not take your anger/frustration out on the good people living in East Wall. If their is anyone who you should be annoyed at surely its the gardai. They have let the situation get out of hand.

marcsignal · 12-12-2008 05:38PM

Darragh29 wrote: »

One thing I've noticed is the complete lack of any outcry around the East Wall area about this, they don't seem too bothered at all by this. I don't see much by way of posts from anyone living in East Wall on here either, kind of says a lot about the whole community over there...

jeez! cmon Darragh29, tbh your not being fair at all there, there's at least 3 East Wall posters on here, and they care enough to post. I for one think their contribution is extremely valuable. It's important for the rest of us to listen to what they have to say as well, to get a proper insight into what things are actually like over there.

i'm also pretty sure there's loads of others from the area who care, and maybe they don't have access to a computer, or can't use a computer, middle aged people and old people who never use the web. When it's said that the good people in East Wall are appaled by whats going on, I believe that wholeheartedly.

asdasd · 12-12-2008 05:42PM

Just making the remark that you lot don't seem too put out by what happened to that man.

I get the exact opposite feeling. They are shocked, appalled, but at a loss to know what to do. And clearly the Gardai are not much until the violence, threats etc. actually gets to murder.

gurramok · 12-12-2008 05:59PM

OK-Cancel-Apply wrote: »

If that's the case, why are people complaining? The 13-year-old only did what most people on this thread would have done to him!

Firstly, its a 16yr old charged with the murder.

Secondly, as said, the victim was reformed and duly served his time for whatever that conviction was in a far away country.

Thirdly, its very highly unlikely that these murdering scum knew of the victims past and justified killing him due to some drug offences, they were hardly vigilantes now you know?

Fourthly and more importantly, this incident could of resulted in the man's son being killed instead.

IE..it could of being anyone been the victim hence the justifiable outrage.

marcsignal · 12-12-2008 06:07PM

Zulu wrote: »

Thats a sensible suggestion marcsignal.
However, I'd be concerned on how this would impact the perception of the area.
When it comes to social regeneration, and trying to improve and area, people won't be keen to move into an area that has uniformed soldiers on the streets.

well the ERU with Army backup idea would only be short term until things calm down, after which, normal policing could resume.

I think we all have to accept here, that the problem is multi-factorial. There are loads of different issues that have to be adressed, and they have to be adressed at the same time. There's no point in clamping down on criminals and gougers if there's nowhere to send them. If we build more prisons, there's no point unless the judges are going to send them there. If the judges send them there, and they are, broadly speaking, taken out of the picture, cleansing the area of scumbags, then there must be investment in that area in terms of facilities, youth clubs, proper community liason Gardai etc.

All of this must be carefully planned and coordinated. It wouldn't be an easy task, and i'm not going to try to pretend for a minute that it would be. It would take years, possibly a generation, but I believe it could be done, if the will was there on all sides.

SpookyDoll · 12-12-2008 06:16PM

Secondly, as said, the victim was reformed

Correct, or as people on here are so fond of saying "rehabilitated" -maybe the social workers hugs worked on him, no wait sorry, it was the 11 years in a Cuban prision.

Whatever, it makes no difference, he didnt deserve to be murdered.

Overheal · 12-12-2008 06:41PM

RedPlanet wrote: »

So you want:

- legislation to hold parents accountable for their kids actions.
- some sort of system whereby "good people" are encouraged to move into the area, but you have no specifics about such system.
- some manner of "support" for those parents whom are terrorised by their out-of-control kids.
- some general buzz word: "social regeneration", but beyond getting "good people" to move into the area, have no other specifics regarding what that means.

HOwever, none of that constitutes any sort of handout from the council.

That about right?

Tell me you arent making light of parents needing to be responsible for the actions of their children?

Damn straight I would hold them responsible: too often parents just give up on their problem children because they dont have any sense of how to parent them. My mother did it to my sister, and she's been living out on her own/with boyfriends since she was 15. But thats a long story.

Maybe if abortion was legalised there would be fewer unwanted pregnancies, sadly-unwanted children and hence fewer underparented gun weilding little shytes on the streets.

- some manner of "support" for those parents whom are terrorised by their out-of-control kids.

Absolutely! Like I said, some parents honestly dont know any better - they dont have the skills necessary to parent their kids. Whether it comes in the form of classes or a nanny, something has to happen in that regard. You need a license for a dog, but not a child. Lunacy. How bout if you dont have a parenting license (by taking a series of parenting courses) you dont receive a childrens allowance.

mernj · 12-12-2008 06:49PM

asdasd wrote: »

I get the exact opposite feeling. They are shocked, appalled, but at a loss to know what to do. And clearly the Gardai are not much until the violence, threats etc. actually gets to murder.

I just like to add, that I live in East Wall, and the community is in total shock after the murder...

Its also easy enough for people living outside of East Wall to come out and say we should protest on the streets, when they have no experience of these kids and what they are capable of! I know myself, that I would be terrified to do such a thing - I know that as soon as they saw me protesting, the attacks on my house would start all over again!! And as living in a house with no males, you have to understand how terrifying that prospect is...we went through months of hell with these kids, and calling the guards we found out, makes things worse!!

But all incidents have to be reported, even if you ask the guards not to call around to your house.... if the crime isnt reported, then no extra guards will be put on the streets.....

marcsignal · 12-12-2008 06:57PM

Overheal wrote: »

Tell me you arent making light of parents needing to be responsible for the actions of their children?

Damn straight I would hold them responsible: too often parents just give up on their problem children because they dont have any sense of how to parent them.

I agree Overheal, I would hold them responsible too. Kids aren't born scumbags, they learn it like everything else, 'monkey see monkey do' Parents have a moral obligation to ensure their kids are thought what's right and wrong.

I'm undecided on the abortion thing tho, although I did hear a programme on the BBC World Service about how it, apparently, reduced the crime rate in one American state. I was sceptical initially, but the statistics, and study in general that was done, was extensive and well presented, and it did seem to strongly suggest there was a correlation. My only apprehension would be, that abortion would become a form of 'conveyor belt contraception' for some of these girls.

Overheal · 12-12-2008 07:04PM

what about the parent license? now that ive thought about it, I like it.

marcsignal · 12-12-2008 07:15PM

I just want to say 'fair play' to all of the East Wall posters, and I can understand why most of you would be afraid to draw attention to yourselves by protesting over there. I dont envy your situation at all, it must be very frightening.

I think a general protest outside the Dail would be better, and should encompass everyones anger and disgust at the Governments incompetence in dealing with violent crime all over the country. Most of us are not at the coal face, but it would be a good way for all concerned citizens to show solidarity with, and support for those that are.

RedPlanet · 12-12-2008 08:36PM

Overheal:
Tell me you arent making light of parents needing to be responsible for the actions of their children?

Damn straight I would hold them responsible: too often parents just give up on their problem children because they dont have any sense of how to parent them. My mother did it to my sister, and she's been living out on her own/with boyfriends since she was 15. But thats a long story.

Maybe if abortion was legalised there would be fewer unwanted pregnancies, sadly-unwanted children and hence fewer underparented gun weilding little shytes on the streets.

- some manner of "support" for those parents whom are terrorised by their out-of-control kids.
Absolutely! Like I said, some parents honestly dont know any better - they dont have the skills necessary to parent their kids. Whether it comes in the form of classes or a nanny, something has to happen in that regard. You need a license for a dog, but not a child. Lunacy. How bout if you dont have a parenting license (by taking a series of parenting courses) you dont receive a childrens allowance.

Yeah i am making light of it.
Why? Because it's pie-in-the-sky feelgood nonsense.
It would require new legislation (which is not likely to happen), then it'd get challeged and brought to the High Court.
Because obviously it's a bit extreme to try a person for the crimes of someone else, which is what you're proposing.
So, even if you could get legislation, the EU Court of Human Rights would put it down, and rightly so in my opinion.

Insofar as getting "support" for those parents?
Yeah neat idea, but HELLOOO we are in a recession and there are budget cuts left and right.
I don't imagine the government is going to setup a whole new venture of experimental parenting classes anytime soon.
They didn't do it during the Celtic Tiger, they aren't going to do it while we are broke.

A parenting license?
what a load of crap, but you know that already.

Nope, all that stuff is airy-fairy nonsense that politicians and the media will pay lip service.

The reason EastWall is a ****hole is becuase the folks down there have no money.
It's not a 50,000€ merc that's getting vandalised is it?
Nope, if you tally up all the crap these scumbags do, it amounts to feck-all.
Petty vandalism, minor assaults, minor robbery.
That's the way the powers that be look at it.
They do the math, money talks baby.

Things like this need to be handled at grass-roots level.
EastWall should learn lessons from what other communties have done. Like i explained earlier about west Belfast.
That they posted pictures of these scumbags on every lamppost and on billboards, had meetings and got shopkeepers and everybody to excommunicate them.

Or like the vigilantees did in the 80's in Dublin. Christy Moore wrote a song about it.

spurious · 12-12-2008 08:58PM

It's not just an East Wall issue. The same tyranny of children is going on all over the city.

Highsider · 12-12-2008 09:42PM

Off subject slightly but are people serious about a parent licence? Surely not :eek:

Earth Worm Jim · 13-12-2008 01:11AM

I knew Aidan, and he was a nice chap, he helped out all the kids, fixing their bikes, mopeds, scramblers etc, didn't ever see anything underhand or bogey going on, he was just a bike and car crazy mechanic that bothered nobody! A couple of kids did give him a hard time for a few weeks before what transpired, he even called the Guards over one incident (maybe more I don't know?) it was more than likely put down to kids acting the fvck! I have spoken to one of the Detectives about what happened and they are as shocked as everyone, lots of concern about some of the young childern that may have witnessed the actual shooting, as it happened at 7.30pm on a sunday night there were lots of kids around, maybe a lot younger than 13yr old (doing nobody any harm at all, just playing, many outside their own houses)..

I also know the lad (16yr old) who is charged family and I am shocked at who it actualy was, his family have being involved in the community and youth clubs in particular for over 20yrs, Not bad parents by any means, I don't know the young lad well enough to comment on him but I don't think he was paticularly a tearaway.. I know he is on medication for a severe ADHD disorder(or something similar?) which is why he needed medical attention(he was NOT a JUNKIE like others have implied) It seems like a completely senseless act to all involved, but unfortunately someone died and that lad was responsible!

On how we combat this and the culture I don't know, marching on peoples house's won't bring Aidan back, and the parents didn't do anything? Also what a lot of people don't get is that some of the people causing problems come from good families that marched on other families back in the 90's.. Its just some teens go off the rails no matter how they are brought up, whether rich or poor or where they live! Vigilante-ism ain't the answer! Working with youths and kids is the way to go, while East Wall may look and feel dead judging by church rd since what happened to Aidan, most kids were in supervised (by the parents) youth centres, clubs and playing football on their new astro tuff pitch! Its only a small amount of kids involved in anti social behaviour.

The guards and the community are doing their bit and while the guards do get some stick, they have taken a good approach on this investigation, they are working with the community and not just coming in with a heavy handed approach and then leaving after a few weeks.. the guards will confirm that the community is fully co-opperating and doing their bit too and totaly appauled by what happened.

As for getting the army involved. maybe yes, but Not touring the streets, maybe having open days in their barracks for school kids, participating in community activities with communities, like the guards should too!

Easteregg · 13-12-2008 06:54AM

Earth Worm Jim wrote: »

I knew Aidan, and he was a nice chap, he helped out all the kids, fixing their bikes, mopeds, scramblers etc, didn't ever see anything underhand or bogey going on, he was just a bike and car crazy mechanic that bothered nobody! A couple of kids did give him a hard time for a few weeks before what transpired, he even called the Guards over one incident (maybe more I don't know?) it was more than likely put down to kids acting the fvck! I have spoken to one of the Detectives about what happened and they are as shocked as everyone, lots of concern about some of the young childern that may have witnessed the actual shooting, as it happened at 7.30pm on a sunday night there were lots of kids around, maybe a lot younger than 13yr old (doing nobody any harm at all, just playing, many outside their own houses)..

I also know the lad (16yr old) who is charged family and I am shocked at who it actualy was, his family have being involved in the community and youth clubs in particular for over 20yrs, Not bad parents by any means, I don't know the young lad well enough to comment on him but I don't think he was paticularly a tearaway.. I know he is on medication for a severe ADHD disorder(or something similar?) which is why he needed medical attention(he was NOT a JUNKIE like others have implied) It seems like a completely senseless act to all involved, but unfortunately someone died and that lad was responsible!

On how we combat this and the culture I don't know, marching on peoples house's won't bring Aidan back, and the parents didn't do anything? Also what a lot of people don't get is that some of the people causing problems come from good families that marched on other families back in the 90's.. Its just some teens go off the rails no matter how they are brought up, whether rich or poor or where they live! Vigilante-ism ain't the answer! Working with youths and kids is the way to go, while East Wall may look and feel dead judging by church rd since what happened to Aidan, most kids were in supervised (by the parents) youth centres, clubs and playing football on their new astro tuff pitch! Its only a small amount of kids involved in anti social behaviour.

The guards and the community are doing their bit and while the guards do get some stick, they have taken a good approach on this investigation, they are working with the community and not just coming in with a heavy handed approach and then leaving after a few weeks.. the guards will confirm that the community is fully co-opperating and doing their bit too and totaly appauled by what happened.

As for getting the army involved. maybe yes, but Not touring the streets, maybe having open days in their barracks for school kids, participating in community activities with communities, like the guards should too!

With all due respect for what you are saying here.

These kids have made absolute hell of peoples lives for the past several years. They have shat on every single soul in East Wall for years. They have murdered an innocent man. They have terrorized everyone. They and every single individual who has followed them, are responsible for their actions.

Which is in totality called - SHAME.

For years, they have mocked every single value that East Wall stands for. Proud to be from East Wall !!!! Pride in nothing. There is no pride anymore. A community that is proud of itself as being a place that is different or separate from the rest. A place that prides itself as being a close knit community - Is no longer.

Right now, East Wall is just another sh.it hole place like Limerick. East Wall has shat on a friend of the community - Aidan, a distinct, loyal and fascinating individual. Aidan from East Wall. Aidan who tried to blend in. Aidan who tried to be a part of a community. Aidan who should not have let them get close to him. Was he wrong to be close to them. To let them into his house. To think that he could do some good? He let them in. He crossed the line by allowing them into his heart. What he thought was good, was just East Wall's deliverance. East Wall delivered to Aidan what was coming to him. Thou shalt not become close to and befriend the skum.....

I only hope that the people get it together to fight the skum that have ruined the beauty that exist in East Wall. Which is fun, laughter, taking the piss. A man who dedicated himself to East Wall. Having a laugh in the butchers. Life. Enjoyment. So what if your a blow in or a quirky long-termer. East Wall has shat on the very existence which is what it stands for. Difference. Now it is no different.

A man who had no ill wish towards anyone.

arybvtcw0eolkf · 13-12-2008 11:55AM

Dave! wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/no-drug-link-to-murder-but-mechanic-served-time-in-cuba-1568806.html

http://www.herald.ie/national-news/okane-murder-lsquoyoursquoll-need-more-than-a-glock-to-defend-yourselfrsquo-1570136.html
As the East Wall community, where he lived in Shelmalier Rd for the past 10 months, remained numbed at the brutality of his murder, it emerged that the victim had a criminal record.

Mr O’Kane had fled from Ireland 14 years ago while awaiting trial on a drugs charge.

In addition gardai established that he had served 11 years in a Cuban prison after a drugs conviction there, while on the run from the authorities here.

Anyone got anything further on this?.

Sounds like Mr.O'Kane had one of two skeletons in the closet.

And while I'm not condoning his death in the least, I wonder what (if any) motives where behind a man who was a fugitive from justice here (drugs charges) and a convict in another country in allowing youngsters into his home. You reap what you sow?, or a totally reformed charactor?.

Whatever the reason's, he didn't deserve to die in an allyway at the hands of a 16yr old little fvcker.

Easteregg · 13-12-2008 12:48PM

Mairt wrote: »

Anyone got anything further on this?.

Sounds like Mr.O'Kane had one of two skeletons in the closet.

And while I'm not condoning his death in the least, I wonder what (if any) motives where behind a man who was a fugitive from justice here (drugs charges) and a convict in another country in allowing youngsters into his home. You reap what you sow?, or a totally reformed charactor?.

Whatever the reason's, he didn't deserve to die in an allyway at the hands of a 16yr old little fvcker.

While it is a dark and upsetting topic, discussing the shooting and murder of Aidan O'Kane on Boards has been of benefit to many people in East Wall and other areas. It is also of benefit in relation to positive outcomes that might stem from such a heinous act.

However, Aidan O'Kane is not currently charged, on bail, on remand for any crime that he has committed. I object to any reference to Aidan O'Kane's past being discussed in terms of "Reaping what you sow". The man might have committed crimes in his past, but it would seem quite obvious that he had a past but served the time for this and does not need to be judged after his death. It is obvious to everyone that he was making amends and making a hard and honest living. He was putting his son through college, letting out his own room and sleeping on the living room couch to do so. I can only imagine that the 11 years that he did was not easy and that this was his payment for his wrong doings.

It might be possible to find out exactly what he did in his past but I think it is irrelevant as he was a free citizen of Ireland last Sunday. As right or wrong in what he did in his past, it is wrong to begin judging Aidan O'Kane's past in an online courtroom fashion using terminology such as reaping what he sowed.

Have some respect for Aidan and his son.

uberwolf · 13-12-2008 12:51PM

Easteregg wrote: »

It is obvious to everyone that he was making amends and making a hard and honest living. He was putting his son through college, letting out his own room and sleeping on the living room couch to do so. I can only imagine that the 11 years that he did was not easy and that this was his payment for his wrong doings.

That's quite something really.

arybvtcw0eolkf · 13-12-2008 01:41PM

Easteregg wrote: »

While it is a dark and upsetting topic, discussing the shooting and murder of Aidan O'Kane on Boards has been of benefit to many people in East Wall and other areas. It is also of benefit in relation to positive outcomes that might stem from such a heinous act.

However, Aidan O'Kane is not currently charged, on bail, on remand for any crime that he has committed. I object to any reference to Aidan O'Kane's past being discussed in terms of "Reaping what you sow". The man might have committed crimes in his past, but it would seem quite obvious that he had a past but served the time for this and does not need to be judged after his death. It is obvious to everyone that he was making amends and making a hard and honest living. He was putting his son through college, letting out his own room and sleeping on the living room couch to do so. I can only imagine that the 11 years that he did was not easy and that this was his payment for his wrong doings.

It might be possible to find out exactly what he did in his past but I think it is irrelevant as he was a free citizen of Ireland last Sunday. As right or wrong in what he did in his past, it is wrong to begin judging Aidan O'Kane's past in an online courtroom fashion using terminology such as reaping what he sowed.

Have some respect for Aidan and his son.

Hey, lets just bbury our collective heads in the sand and don the rose tinted specs so, eh?.

I asked a question based on the report in the national media, don't like the question - then tough shit.

I also asked if he was a reformed charactor, which either you chose to ignore or answered as way of attacking a valid question.

ball ox · 13-12-2008 01:49PM

Highsider wrote: »

Off subject slightly but are people serious about a parent licence? Surely not :eek:

I dunno about that but the simple fact is that these people should not be allowed to breed. It would be a problem solved.

arybvtcw0eolkf · 13-12-2008 01:57PM

ball ox wrote: »

I dunno about that but the simple fact is that these people should not be allowed to breed. It would be a problem solved.

Thats a really stupid argument.

Who are 'these people' and how do we decide who needs a licence?.

Do we wait to see if the first child commits a crime before deciding on licencing a parent, or by 'these people' do you mean working class people?.

uberwolf · 13-12-2008 02:04PM

Mairt wrote: »

Who are 'these people' and how do we decide who needs a licence?.

Do we wait to see if the first child commits a crime before deciding on licencing a parent, or by 'these people' do you mean working class people?.

As much as I've joked about it offline, licensing for children isn't going to happen.

but we as a society aren't happy to allow people to keep pets unless they are providing a comfortable existence for them.

How mad an idea is that someone should be able to demonstrate the capacity to provide and care for a child before they're allowed have one? That they have educated themselves in child rearing, and will be able to respond to a childs emotional and developmental requirements.

I ask this in theory, with no real ambitions to march on the Dáil to seek implementation!

Man murdered by youth(s) after home attacked(yes it happened in Ireland)

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