Man murdered by youth(s) after home attacked(yes it happened in Ireland)

arybvtcw0eolkf

Yea UW, its something which will never happen so no point in debating it too much.

But what I will say, is that even with the greatest will in the world even the best parents will have a hard time controlling their teen's once outside the family home.

Like I said earlier in the thread.

I lived in Eastwall for seven years, my wife was born and breed there and my children's first few years were spent in Eastwall.

I'd safely say that I tick most if not all the boxes in the 'good parents guide to good parenting guide (not a real book!). And I've said it this week after than poor man was murdered, that will the greatest will we've no doubt that my son would have been mates of the little fvckers who killed that chap.

And most likely, I like most other parents in that position would have been either totally ignorant of my kids actions until it was too late, or I'd have been tearing my hair out in despair as to what to do to correct their ways.

Some kids are just going to be little bastards regardless (Anna Belles four come to mind) their up bringing or social backgrounds.

ball ox

Mairt wrote: »

Thats a really stupid argument.

Who are 'these people' and how do we decide who needs a licence?.

Do we wait to see if the first child commits a crime before deciding on licencing a parent, or by 'these people' do you mean working class people?.

Well, it's not really. "These People" I'm referring to are the incompetent "parents" out there that do not know how/have no interest in raising children. I grew up in an area with some good kids and some bad eggs. The worst ones were the guys who had the "cool" parents that let us smoke in their house when we were 14. I don't know about a parenting license but it wouldn't hurt if people were assessed or something (i am aware that that is a completely unrealistic proposal, just saying for arguments sake)

marcsignal

Easteregg wrote: »

While it is a dark and upsetting topic, discussing the shooting and murder of Aidan O'Kane on Boards has been of benefit to many people in East Wall and other areas. It is also of benefit in relation to positive outcomes that might stem from such a heinous act.

Here Here on that Easteregg, and fair play to Earth Worm Jim for post #473.

It's sad to overhear some people in leafy suburban pubs, just say things like "Aw f*ck all that scum down there...etc" when they talk about deprived areas all around the country, and I regret to say, I've heard that, and things like it, frequently.

They always forget that a small minority create these problems, and that the vast majority of people everywhere, even in deprived areas, just want to live their lives and harm or hassle no one.

As has already been said, it's hard to feel a sense of pride in your area, when it looks like the people that have the power to change things, appear not to care.

Earth Worm Jim

micmclo wrote: »

Very long thread and I've not read all of it

I'm hearing a lot about the famed and legendary community spirit of East Wall.
And I certainly saw some residents on Prime Time earlier this week expressing their shock and suprise!

micmclo wrote: »

Are these the same residents that let their children get involved with gangs?

How do you LET your childern get involved in gangs, As I said before this lad came from a Good family, are you suggesting Parents are sending their kids out to cause problems, from what I saw on Prime Time, everyone one the programe, Guards, Politicians stated that if this can happen in East Wall it can happen anywhere, and they also commended the community spirit of East Wall, and they would know because they are actualy in the area and see what goes on!

micmclo wrote: »

Let them wonder around the area late?

This shooting happened at 7.30pm? You suggesting they keep their children locked indoors at 7.30pm on Sunday?

micmclo wrote: »

Let them get involved with adult members of drug gangs?

How do you LET your childern get involved in gangs, As I said before this lad came from a Good family, are you suggesting Parents are sending their kids out to cause problems, and it is thought that this lad found the gun hidden in a burnt out derilict factory, I don't think someone gave it to him, he found it and took it to "show off", he wasn't a member of a gang, drug addict or drug dealer, he was just a kid who found a MAGNUM handgun hidden in a wall!

micmclo wrote: »

Deny all knowledge of anti-social behavior?

If you listened to the Prime Time programe you would have heard Parents and community leaders were after being at a meeting with the relevant authorities about anti social behaviour and it was said at the meeting by the community reps "THAT SOMEONE WILL BE KILLED" weeks before what later happened!

micmclo wrote: »

Are they even going to cooperate with the gardai?

Go read the articles about the incident and you can see that the guards have stated that the community has being VERY helpful, the lad is in custody, the gun recovered, and the guards know everything that happened, you make it sound like its a big cover up and the community are anti GUARDS, which is not the case there is a good relationship between the community and the guards!

micmclo wrote: »

Without doubt there are fantastic people in East Wall but there are fantastic people in all areas.
I'd prefer to see less shock and suprise from the residents and maybe more action to highlight their actions.
Sure they've taken some action and meet local politicans and run community groups. Fair play!
But those kids hanging around Centra (I'm not saying they were involved here) has been going on for years and yet the residents on Prime Time would have you believe it was a perfect area with zero problems ever

There ain't any kids hanging round the Centra, Chinese Take Away, or anywhere on church road these days??? Just being there and walk or drive by a few times a day...

And the media don't help either in these situations, a lot of what is written is uncalled for, Aidan (the victim) has being slated as a drug dealer, on the run, ex con?? Now thats not very ethical behaviour IMO, the chap is DEAD!

And from what little I knew of Aidan he was not into anything illegal or untoward, infact I know he wanted to start up a "mechanics course" for the young lads, many of who pestered him to fix their bike etc, he always helped out, I genuinely think he will be missed by them as he was a nice guy!

I know Aidan's son, Dillon, and he's not a scumbag in any way, shape or form. His dad has a past, but as far as I know, he was genuinely trying to make a new start, he was thrilled that Dillon was back in his life and was making an effort to be part of the community. I've been feeling sick to the stomach for the last few days about what happened and my mind keeps going back to a conversation I had this time last year with Dillon about what he was doing for Christmas. I remember how proud and respectful he seemed of his dad. Now he's gone. For the most senseless reason. It's horrible.

FlutterinBantam

Earth Worm Jim wrote: »

How do you LET your childern get involved in gangs, As I said before this lad came from a Good family, are you suggesting Parents are sending their kids out to cause problems, from what I saw on Prime Time, everyone one the programe, Guards, Politicians stated that if this can happen in East Wall it can happen anywhere, and they also commended the community spirit of East Wall, and they would know because they are actualy in the area and see what goes on!

This shooting happened at 7.30pm? You suggesting they keep their children locked indoors at 7.30pm on Sunday?

How do you LET your childern get involved in gangs, As I said before this lad came from a Good family, are you suggesting Parents are sending their kids out to cause problems, and it is thought that this lad found the gun hidden in a burnt out derilict factory, I don't think someone gave it to him, he found it and took it to "show off", he wasn't a member of a gang, drug addict or drug dealer, he was just a kid who found a MAGNUM handgun hidden in a wall!

If you listened to the Prime Time programe you would have heard Parents and community leaders were after being at a meeting with the relevant authorities about anti social behaviour and it was said at the meeting by the community reps "THAT SOMEONE WILL BE KILLED" weeks before what later happened!

Go read the articles about the incident and you can see that the guards have stated that the community has being VERY helpful, the lad is in custody, the gun recovered, and the guards know everything that happened, you make it sound like its a big cover up and the community are anti GUARDS, which is not the case there is a good relationship between the community and the guards!



There ain't any kids hanging round the Centra, Chinese Take Away, or anywhere on church road these days??? Just being there and walk or drive by a few times a day...

And the media don't help either in these situations, a lot of what is written is uncalled for, Aidan (the victim) has being slated as a drug dealer, on the run, ex con?? Now thats not very ethical behaviour IMO, the chap is DEAD!

And from what little I knew of Aidan he was not into anything illegal or untoward, infact I know he wanted to start up a "mechanics course" for the young lads, many of who pestered him to fix their bike etc, he always helped out, I genuinely think he will be missed by them as he was a nice guy!

So he had no previous then???

Earth Worm Jim

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

So he had no previous then???

Who said he hadn't got previous? I think you need to read my post again?

From what I read, which I find "very bad taste!" bringing up a murder victims past is way out of order, considering what happened, he may have had a past but so have a lot of people, I think the fact the man was killed is not good enough for some people, they have to go and assasinate the character of the victim?

From what I saw Aidan was NOT involved in any illegal activities, and thats speaking in the present term, what he done in the past is in the past, and from what I saw he was giving 100% to be seen as a good person, and he seemed to want to be active in his NEW community, if he was doing anything bogey I am sure he would have choose the opposite and kept a low profile?

All in all its a sad case for Aidans family and friends, and the community as a whole, but even the lad who did the shooting and his family, its just a total waste of Aidans life and I am sure that young lads life is pretty much on a downward spiral.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Earth Worm Jim wrote: »

All in all its a sad case for Aidans family and friends, and the community as a whole, but even the lad who did the shooting and his family, its just a total waste of Aidans life and I am sure that young lads life is pretty much on a downward spiral.

I was going to post a rebuttal to the rest of your post, but I think thats largely irrelevant in light of the last paragraph, which I think hits the nail on the head, its such a damn waste of a life and for those whose lives are effected by this for years to come.

A little incident today caused be to think of the murder, and believe it or not - this thread.

I brought my daughter out shopping today (she's 13) and she was slagging me for looking "posh" because I was wearing a suit, nice shoes comfy overcoat and scarf.. Anyway, walking up Dominick St. towards the car and these little fvckwits (16-17yrs I guess) acting the prick and one shoulders me.

"Fvcking asshole" I said and with that the idiot shapes up to me. Now, I've absolutely no tolerance to scum & smacked the fvcker. They backed off, then I seen my daughter is terrified. I apologised to her, got in my car and really fvcking pissed that I done that in front of her, then I thought to myself..

They thought 'heres a pos cvnt, lets give him stick' and the 'posh cvnt' blew up in their face.

The thing is, nothing will ever change. They were fully prepared to kick the sh*t out of me, I'm sure of it. Fvcking scum, anyway guys. I doubt this will be the last time we all debate social disorder in this country here on boards.

But back to your last paragraph, yes a total waste for everyone. Mr O'Kane might have sown the seeds to his own murder back 14yrs ago, but did he deserve to die for it last week - NO I don't believe he did.

But I remember something Dragan posted in another discussion recently "Sometimes Karma has sharp edges".

Ouijaboard

Jesus mairt, sorry to hear about that, must have been very distressing for your daughter. Fair play for keeping your cool and not taking any shhit. The way things are these days most people wouldn't have struck out, leading him and his mate to take full advantage of the situation. This is the problem I fear though, that piece of filth had no qualms about confronting you, even in front of your young girl, if he had a knife or gun in similar situation in the future would he have been prepared to use it. Might guess is he probably would.

Not going to go over the whole thread again but I fear as a society we are being way too lenient on this type of scut. The permutations of what might have happened in that situation are endless. I agree with you, we will be discussing the state of social disorder again thats for sure.

raemie21

The themes and arguments on this thread are very similar to those after the double murder in Drimnagh in February and unfortunately will probably be repeated again down the line.

There was a massive research study completed last year in UCD about young people in detention centres in Dublin; including Oberstown, St Josephs Ferryhouse, Trinity House and the Child & Adolescent Centre in Finglas.
Not much point getting into it again but these kids are 'scum' for reasons. Learning diff, language imp, poor emotional regulation, on average three psychiatric disorders, family backgrounds etc.

I know that not everyone ends up like this and yes, I hear the people at the back with "I had a fcuking bad childhood but I never did this..."
But to be honest, I've met some of the kids in the line of my work and rather than being these violent animal creatures, they're actually, if i can say, quite pathetic when you meet them one-to-one.

Pathetic in the sense that they are so ill-equipped with life skills, the ability to read emotions as your average 6 year old, unable to express themselves without descending into a mess of words and mumbles..

There is absolutely no excuse for criminal behaviour and yes, you have to perform in society but there is a lot else going on and needs to be changed on a bigger level rather than the very ignorant and poorly thought through notion of 'kill the bastards now, they deserve it."

Similar to Wicknight posts, these kids need proper rehabilitation as they will be back on the streets in a few years time and most likely in a much sh1tter place than now.

RIP Aidan

nij

Mairt wrote: »

"Fvcking asshole" I said and with that the idiot shapes up to me. Now, I've absolutely no tolerance to scum & smacked the fvcker.

So some idiot teenager starts 'shaping up', and instead of continuing to walk on, you assaulted him? Maybe people like you are a problem too.

arybvtcw0eolkf

raemie21 wrote: »

. Learning diff, language imp,

Seriously...

arybvtcw0eolkf

nij wrote: »

So some idiot teenager starts 'shaping up', and instead of continuing to walk on, you assaulted him? Maybe people like you are a problem too.

Had I not left me bleed'n Glock in de motor I'd have popped one in hiz head so I wuud.

:rolleyes:

raemie21

Mairt wrote: »

Seriously...

Language impairment

nlgbbbblth

nij wrote: »

So some idiot teenager starts 'shaping up', and instead of continuing to walk on, you assaulted him? Maybe people like you are a problem too.

The 'idiot teenager' instigated the confrontation. Mairt just retaliated.

Big difference to Mairt walking down the street and battering the first person he sees.

Maybe you should remember this rule

Instigating violence = always wrong
Retaliating with violence = often right

Mairt
What sort of accents did these guys have?
Dublin 4 or Inner City Real Dub ?

Earth Worm Jim

You did right Mairt, under the circumstances, and you taught your Daughter a good lesson by walking away and apoligising to her(though you did nothing wrong!) its best to try and bite the lip in that type of circumstance!

Though theres nothing stoping you droping back that way on your own in the casual clothes and giving them a smack! And in saying that if I was walking by I would have probably giving them a smack for you! These lads have being brought up in a "Grand theft Auto" type of world, never knowing whats what and thinking "putting it up to someone makes them hard!".. Its mainly ignorance on their behalve and really bad respect for authority! I am not going to play the blame game, as that don't help anything but to balance things up, I work in and around schools, youth centres and inner city communities and there are a LOT MORE good kids and teens in these areas, Kids have goals and ambitions now, many from here go to college and dispite what many think Most people in these areas are decent hard working people that love their communities, and want the best for their kids, I don't think any parent brings their kid up to be a murderer?

And we all know its not just happening in areas like East Wall, My sister (who live in the UK) was terrorised by a 12yr old girl(who lived in a care home) - this girl actualy threatened to "cut the baby out of your stomach!"(NO MESS) "Your only an Irish Bitch" ETC ETC and this was after the UK police were brought in and "liason officers" intervened, and it got worse, stalking my sisters house, following her to the shops and threatening her(pregnant) and hr 2yr daughter with knives, her husband was powerless to do anything as the police warned him??? To cut a long story short.. I went over with intentions to put a stop to it.. Only there a day and the police(liason officer) arrived giving us an update, saying the girl had a terrible life etc etc, and then asked me what I was doing there?? I told him that I was there to sort this out and he was shocked at my honesty, but warned me too! So next morning I arrive at the "care home" and knock at the door, a 20yr old (social worker) answered the door and as I was telling him what was on my mind, there was kids and youths smoking skunk and having scraps in the house all in front of this social worker(who then reported me to the police) the "care home" was actualy wrecked that night, every window and door was smashed to bitz by the residents of the care home! The next day the same police(liason officer) came to my sisters house and told us they were moving her(after a yr of hell) to another home! My sister is still terrified she will return! (a 12yr old girl!) And my sister ain't a wimp, she grew up in the innercity, some kids are just off the wall!

arybvtcw0eolkf

nlgbbbblth wrote: »

Mairt
What sort of accents did these guys have?
Dublin 4 or Inner City Real Dub ?

They were from 'the flats' in Dominick St.

As I've family living in the flats I often park there (cheap fvcker that I am).

nij

nlgbbbblth wrote: »

The 'idiot teenager' instigated the confrontation. Mairt just retaliated.

Big difference to Mairt walking down the street and battering the first person he sees.

Maybe you should remember this rule

Instigating violence = always wrong
Retaliating with violence = often right

Mairt
What sort of accents did these guys have?
Dublin 4 or Inner City Real Dub ?

Well I doubt it really happened anyway, but that's not the point. For someone to complain about violent scumbags, and then confess to being the one who actually started the attack is quite ironic. Yeah, a teenager 'shaping up'... time for a fight in front of your daughter.

The Mighty Ken

nij wrote: »

So some idiot teenager starts 'shaping up', and instead of continuing to walk on, you assaulted him? Maybe people like you are a problem too.

If you instigate an unprovoked confrontation on an innocent civilian then you pretty much forfeit your human rights as far as I'm concerned. If some little piece of scum squares up to me or attacks me, I'm going to retaliate with as much force as it takes to put him on the ground and ensure he stays there while I have time to get away. The alternative is to try the 'softly softly' approach or to try and walk away... but at the risk of becoming another statistic of a horrendous violent crime. And make no mistake, these little pissants will take full advantage unless you get medieval on them. If you try and walk away, you will almost certainly get a thump in the back of the head. Or possibly a rock.

In short - Mairt was completely in the right to hit the scumbag. I just hope it was hard enough to scare him from doing anything similar again. Anyone who thinks otherwise is simply not living in the real world and is, in fact, actually perpetuating this kind of behaviour.

nij

The Mighty Ken wrote: »

If you instigate an unprovoked confrontation on an innocent civilian then you pretty much forfeit your human rights as far as I'm concerned.

Yeah but we don't know what he means exactly by 'shaping up'. Could just have been a teen mouthing off and trying to look tough. Perhaps after being calling a fvckin asshole...

If some little piece of scum squares up to me or attacks me, I'm going to retaliate with as much force as it takes to put him on the ground and ensure he stays there while I have time to get away.

You must be a good fighter - how do you know you wouldn't bottle it and have the situation end with him kicking the shyt out of you? Or are you just talking about kids?

The alternative is to try the 'softly softly' approach or to try and walk away...

Something wrong with actually walking away from a scumbag without escalating the situation with a 'fvcking asshole' remark? Are these people even worth it? Softly softy approach...lol, are you trying to tell me that you knock seven shades of shyt out of every scumbag teenage boy who makes a remark or blocks your path or tries to look tough?

And make no mistake, these little pissants will take full advantage unless you get medieval on them. If you try and walk away, you will almost certainly get a thump in the back of the head. Or possibly a rock.

What are you saying?? That you are better off starting fights with people instead of just getting out of there? And what if there are 3 or 4? Life ain't like a kung fu movie you know.

In short - Mairt was completely in the right to hit the scumbag. I just hope it was hard enough to scare him from doing anything similar again. Anyone who thinks otherwise is simply not living in the real world and is, in fact, actually perpetuating this kind of behaviour.

I don't think YOU live in the real world. I don't think you've actually been in many situations like that.

arybvtcw0eolkf

The Mighty Ken wrote: »

In short - Mairt was completely in the right to hit the scumbag. I just hope it was hard enough to scare him from doing anything similar again. .

Thanks, but it was literally a smack..

Open handed accross the cheek, one of my favourites :P

See these little fvckers don't know punishment, because there's too many damned liberals looking out for their stupid rights and welfare.

I'm of the firm believe that hard punishment teach's one that there's a consequence (usually painful) for their wrong doings.

People here went bleating on about putting the army on the streets, then how about putting the streets into the army and introducing conscription, ie you reach 18 then its off for some military training and discipline for two years, then a period of reserve service for five years there after.

nij

Mairt wrote: »

People here went bleating on about putting the army on the streets, then how about putting the streets into the army and introducing conscription, ie you reach 18 then its off for some military training and discipline for two years, then a period of reserve service for five years there after.

You want scumbags in the army?

arybvtcw0eolkf

nij wrote: »

You want scumbags in the army?

Me, no I don't. But thats not what I said.

The Mighty Ken

nij wrote: »

Yeah but we don't know what he means exactly by 'shaping up'. Could just have been a teen mouthing off and trying to look tough. Perhaps after being calling a fvckin asshole...

Well my take of events, and I'm open to correction, is that he was verbally abused and then the guy confronted him and got within a distance where he could do damage/throw a punch/pull a weapon. This confrontation was unprovoked. Sorry... open season.

nij wrote: »

You must be a good fighter - how do you know you wouldn't bottle it and have the situation end with him kicking the shyt out of you? Or are you just talking about kids?

I'm a fairly big bloke so I'm not a likely target and I've never been approached on the street by a scumbag looking for a row. Who knows how I'd react. That's not even the point. What I am saying is that there's nothing wrong with not giving the guy the opportunity to make you another statistic.

nij wrote: »

Something wrong with actually walking away from a scumbag without escalating the situation with a 'fvcking asshole' remark?

No. If you can get away without the risk of being jumped then that's probably the best thing to do.

nij wrote: »

Are these people even worth it?

It's really more a case of whether or not your safety is worth it.

nij wrote: »

Softly softy approach...lol, are you trying to tell me that you knock seven shades of shyt out of every scumbag teenage boy who makes a remark or blocks your path or tries to look tough?

I'm telling you that if some scumbag started abusing me and then got within striking distance of me, I'd feel an imminent sense of danger and I'd defend myself. What's wrong with that?

nij wrote: »

What are you saying?? That you are better off starting fights with people instead of just getting out of there?

You know I'm not saying that. Don't be silly. I'm talking about self defence, not 'starting fights'. I thought that would have been obvious.

nij wrote: »

I don't think YOU live in the real world. I don't think you've actually been in many situations like that.

You can think whatever you like, you don't even know me. Have you been in situations like that? How did you react?

dan719

Mairt wrote: »

Had I not left me bleed'n Glock in de motor I'd have popped one in hiz head so I wuud.

:rolleyes:

From what I can tell from your posts your trained in Martial Arts, have been in the military(not sure about this one), worked as a bouncer and probably know how to properly use a glock(that's an inference on my part- firearms training?).

Now with all that training I I would guess that you are intimidating(not in frightening way but rather that's a man whom knows how to take care of himself). How exactly do you justify hitting a teenager who shouldered you as opposed to laughing at him and walking by. Had anything further developed you seem you would have had it under full control. :rolleyes:

Your taste for extreme law and order obviously does not extend to you being charged with assault.

The Mighty Ken

dan719 wrote: »

From what I can tell from your posts your trained in Martial Arts, have been in the military(not sure about this one), worked as a bouncer and probably know how to properly use a glock(that's an inference on my part- firearms training?).

Now with all that training I I would guess that you are intimidating(not in frightening way but rather that's a man whom knows how to take care of himself). How exactly do you justify hitting a teenager who shouldered you as opposed to laughing at him and walking by. Had anything further developed you seem you would have had it under full control. :rolleyes:

Your taste for extreme law and order obviously does not extend to you being charged with assault.

What if he got a screwdriver in the back of the neck after he walked away?

dan719

The Mighty Ken wrote: »

What if he got a screwdriver in the back of the neck after he walked away?

And what if the guy he slapped had fallen to the ground, hit his head and died? The 'what-if' scenario works both ways.

Terry

We do not condone violence of any kind here.