Could you go out with a religeous person?

Passenger · 28-11-2008 10:16PM

To answer the question, probably not.

sink · 28-11-2008 10:18PM

Valmont wrote: »

"The fact that someone is religeous suggests something about their personality/mindset to me,"

If I have one goal in life, it's to put an end to this sort of nonsense. There is absolutely no link between a nebulous concept like personality and belief in the divine. When are people going to stop being atheists just to feel intelligent and superior? :mad:

So you acknowledge that becoming an atheist automatically makes one smarter, but you wish one would not do so just to boost one's intelligence.

PDN · 28-11-2008 10:26PM

Zillah wrote: »

Oh cool. Do you have Holy Spirit seizure parties? (I don't know what the official term is. Where everyone gets together and the Holy Spirit makes them fall over and speak in tongues and stuff)

No. But, hey, why should I spoil your fun by replacing your inaccurate stereotypes with facts?

Handsome Bob · 28-11-2008 10:29PM

PDN wrote: »

No. But, hey, why should I spoil your fun by replacing your inaccurate stereotypes with facts?

Oh the horror.:( Those stereotypes will only be exasperated by Borat. Have you seen his film? He had a trip to quite a..........energetic religious event.:pac:

Zillah · 28-11-2008 10:43PM

PDN wrote: »

No. But, hey, why should I spoil your fun by replacing your inaccurate stereotypes with facts?

Oh come on that's hardly fair. Granted I phrased it in a rather insensitive manner, but is it not accurate to say that Pentecostals focus upon the Holy Spirit and that many of them have energetic prayer sessions where they believe the Holy Spirit grants them blessings such as speaking in tongues?

Zillah · 28-11-2008 10:45PM

Valmont wrote: »

"The fact that someone is religeous suggests something about their personality/mindset to me,"

If I have one goal in life, it's to put an end to this sort of nonsense. There is absolutely no link between a nebulous concept like personality and belief in the divine.

Of course there's a link. Belief in God can result in all sorts of influences on someone's personality, from their degree of scepticism, their approach to morality, prayer, faith...all sorts of stuff.

When are people going to stop being atheists just to feel intelligent and superior? :mad:

Ok that just makes no sense.

PDN · 28-11-2008 10:47PM

LZ5by5 wrote: »

Oh the horror.:( Those stereotypes will only be exasperated by Borat. Have you seen his film? He had a trip to quite a..........energetic religious event.:pac:

Borat met a load of nuts. So therefore those stereotypes apply to all Pentecostals?

Do you approve of this lazy and inaccurate stereotyping being applied to other groups apart from Christians? For example, some homosexuals are paedophiles. Would that make it OK for me to ask Zillah if he conforms to that stereotype?

Don't worry, I won't do so because I'm far too well mannered, and too intelligent, to indulge in that kind of crap. It's a shame the same can't be said for others.

Handsome Bob · 28-11-2008 10:58PM

PDN wrote: »

Borat met a load of nuts. So therefore those stereotypes apply to all Pentecostals?

Do you approve of this lazy and inaccurate stereotyping being applied to other groups apart from Christians? For example, some homosexuals are paedophiles. Would that make it OK for me to ask Zillah if he conforms to that stereotype?

Don't worry, I won't do so because I'm far too well mannered, and too intelligent, to indulge in that kind of crap. It's a shame the same can't be said for others.

I think it's quite evident from my "those stereotypes will only be exasperated by Borat" that I don't approve of stereotypes. I'd like to think that the people who have interacted with me on the subject of religion would know that I suspise stereotypes no?

PDN · 28-11-2008 11:00PM

LZ5by5 wrote: »

I think it's quite evident from my "those stereotypes will only be exasperated by Borat" that I don't approve of stereotypes. I'd like to think that the people who have interacted with me on the subject of religion would know that I suspise stereotypes no?

I must admit I thought it out of character for you. My bad. Put it down to late night miscommunication.:o

Handsome Bob · 28-11-2008 11:02PM

PDN wrote: »

I must admit I thought it out of character for you. My bad. Put it down to late night miscommunication.:o

No worries, my fault for trying to inject I bit of lighthearted banter into the subject.:pac:

Gambler · 29-11-2008 12:41AM

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Gambler wrote: »

Surely you can accept that calling yourself something lends that "thing" "power".

Yeah, fair point.
All I am saying is many people who call themselves Christians have sex before marriage. So can you make the point that they're hypocrites?
Well I just don't think that's clear cut. But of course, if they are annoying you about their Christianity and fail to see the lack of an objective and precise universally agreed definition for Christianity, of course you can call them a hypocrite :-)

Personally no, I don't think any of them are hypocrites at all. I usually just use that as one way of asking people to examine their religion a bit more closely.. Most people I meet who call themselves catholic haven't really thought what being catholic means or implies that they believe very much.

As I said earlier as far as I'm concerned if you call yourself something then you lend that thing power (be it a religion\religious party or anything else like that) so if you call yourself a catholic you consider gay relationships to be wrong or "imperfect" in the eyes of god, you believe that sex before marriage is a sin and a whole host of other things that if a lot of catholics seriously think about they can't help but come to terms with the fact that they aren't actually Catholic in anything other than name.

Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of people out there that really do agree with everything the pope believes. Alternatively just because they don't believe in everything catholics believe doesn't mean that they aren't still christians. I just think people need to examine what it means to call themselves something and if the description doesn't fit their beliefs then they should go find something that does..

Weidii · 01-12-2008 03:31AM

Zillah wrote: »

The very fact that you can be so casual about it really says something: "Meh, it's totally up to my boyfriend's whim if he'll spend a hundred billion years in darkness eternally separated from me and God".

Sorry, I know this is a bit of a digression, but I just want to say that I can wholeheartedly agree with Zillahs view on this matter.

Usually when I take this up with Christians they make up some excuse about everyone going to heaven. Sometimes I think they don't have a clue what it is they actually believe in, they are religeous... just 'cause they are.

Someone else made a point about being worried that their religeous partner would want to put their kids through the god grinder. I think that alone would be enough to turn me off getting into anything serious with one of them.

Tim Robbins · 01-12-2008 09:50AM

Gambler wrote: »

As I said earlier as far as I'm concerned if you call yourself something then you lend that thing power (be it a religion\religious party or anything else like that) so if you call yourself a catholic you consider gay relationships to be wrong or "imperfect" in the eyes of god, you believe that sex before marriage is a sin and a whole host of other things that if a lot of catholics seriously think about they can't help but come to terms with the fact that they aren't actually Catholic in anything other than name.

Don't get me wrong, there are a lot of people out there that really do agree with everything the pope believes. Alternatively just because they don't believe in everything catholics believe doesn't mean that they aren't still christians. I just think people need to examine what it means to call themselves something and if the description doesn't fit their beliefs then they should go find something that does..

I don't agree with that. I was a PD supporter but certainly don't agree with everything they did. I think Michael McDowell is one of the best politicians this state has ever had and I certainly disagree with a number of things he did and said. I am humanist member and supporter and I don't agree with everything they do. I am also a member of (and give monry to) a few other organisations and the same holds.

The chances of joining a society, group and club and agreeing with everything is nil. You can't herd cats.

Tim Robbins · 01-12-2008 09:53AM

Weidii wrote: »

Usually when I take this up with Christians they make up some excuse about everyone going to heave.

Interesting. I just get a plethoria of "I don't know..."
My Mum's answer though deserves kudos:
"Look, if you look at it logically - the way you do - it's not true. I just like praying. It just makes me feel good".

I suppose, in the PDN book, she's not a Christian.
But in my opinion she is someone with a mature view of things. She accepts the weakness of her position, but lives with her heart and not just the head.

Handsome Bob · 01-12-2008 10:40AM

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Interesting. I just get a plethoria of "I don't know..."
My Mum's answer though deserves kudos:
"Look, if you look at it logically - the way you do - it's not true. I just like praying. It just makes me feel good".

I suppose, in the PDN book, she's not a Christian.
But in my opinion she is someone with a mature view of things. She accepts the weakness of her position, but lives with her heart and not just the head.

Would you call that agnostic theism?

Dades · 01-12-2008 10:51AM

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Weidii wrote: »

Usually when I take this up with Christians they make up some excuse about everyone going to heave.

LOL at your selective quote...

Tim Robbins · 01-12-2008 12:06PM

LZ5by5 wrote: »

Would you call that agnostic theism?

Good question. I don't know what I'd call it, but anyone I know who goes to Church, would be as described (or pretty close).

They will of course get agitated and annoyed if you point out they are just talking to an imaginary friend.

Valmont · 08-12-2008 11:28PM

Zillah wrote: »

Of course there's a link. Belief in God can result in all sorts of influences on someone's personality, from their degree of scepticism, their approach to morality, prayer, faith...all sorts of stuff.

None of these are aspects of personality, not in the slightest.

Zillah wrote: »

Ok that just makes no sense.

I get the impression that some people become athiests just to feel superior by throwing around the usual 'spaghetti monster etc' arguments to theists. Indeed the very fact itself that some people think theists are 'less intelligent' than athiests supports my opinion.

Malari · 09-12-2008 09:40AM

Valmont wrote: »

I get the impression that some people become athiests just to feel superior by throwing around the usual 'spaghetti monster etc' arguments to theists. Indeed the very fact itself that some people think theists are 'less intelligent' than athiests supports my opinion.

That's laughable! You think some random person thinks "I know a quick and easy way to feel superior - I'm going to become an atheist! I'm off to throw a spaghetti monster at some religious person" You need to think through your arguments a little more than that.

Valmont · 09-12-2008 09:58AM

Ok perhaps to say they become athiests because of that is a stretch but once they're there, the patronising and condescending arguments that are done to death fly around like nobodies business. I just think if you're comfortable with your beliefs why do you feel the need to crusade against every theist unfortunate enough to wander in here thinking they can argue rationally with us.

And do you have to be so patronising? ":Dthat's laughable". This is what I'm talking about. If you want to masturbate, look at porn, don't post here. So rather than the usual, "haha hohoho I'm great, you clearly are not a logical person smiley face wankerness, can we not just have a civil discussion?

And yes, I'm very sensitive.

CerebralCortex · 09-12-2008 10:11AM

Zillah wrote: »

Of course there's a link. Belief in God can result in all sorts of influences on someone's personality, from their degree of scepticism, their approach to morality, prayer, faith...all sorts of stuff.

Valmont wrote: »

None of these are aspects of personality, not in the slightest.

Tim Robbins and Valmont do you honestly believe that to be true?

Tim Robbins · 09-12-2008 10:24AM

CerebralCortex wrote: »

Tim Robbins and Valmont do you honestly believe that to be true?

The people I know who believe in God or are religiously active just have something very deep rooted and visceral that they don't fully understand themselves. [They are not like any of the Christian posters here.]

For them, it seems like it's bit like 'love' itself. Difficult to deconstruct. So they just don't bother.

I think atheists can just bit of an arrogant bunch (myself included!). Because in the grand scheme of things what they do has little bearing on:

1. The Credit Crunch
2. Any war
3. The No vote to Lisbon
4. Our cr*p health service
5. All the bad planning decisions in the last 20 years in this state.

As I have said in other threads if atheists got off their asses we wouldn't have the problems we have such as the descrimination of kids in schools based on their religion.

As for personality, I find some atheists more annoying than christians. They know very little about any religion. Very little about Philosophy and not that much about Science.

They are only non - religious because their peers are. Others are full of silly ranting and silly straw man arguments.

I'd rather Rowan Williams as my neighbour to Chris Hitchens anyday.

Malari · 09-12-2008 10:26AM

Valmont wrote: »

Ok perhaps to say they become athiests because of that is a stretch but once they're there, the patronising and condescending arguments that are done to death fly around like nobodies business. I just think if you're comfortable with your beliefs why do you feel the need to crusade against every theist unfortunate enough to wander in here thinking they can argue rationally with us.

I'm only responding to what you typed.

Valmont wrote: »

And do you have to be so patronising? ":Dthat's laughable". This is what I'm talking about. If you want to masturbate, look at porn, don't post here. So rather than the usual, "haha hohoho I'm great, you clearly are not a logical person smiley face wankerness, can we not just have a civil discussion?

And yes, I'm very sensitive.

But I would have the same response to someone in any other forum who posted something like this, regardless of topic. It doesn't have to ALL come from atheism.

Dades · 09-12-2008 10:54AM

Tim Robbins wrote: »

As for personality, I find some atheists more annoying than christians. They know very little about any religion. Very little about Philosophy and not that much about Science.

While I agree it would be beneficial to anyone to know more about those fields, frankly I don't believe they are necessarily required to be an atheist with an opinion.

You could read philosophy until you're blue in the face but it won't give you a better indicator as to the non-existence of a benevolent god than simply following world news for a day.

Tim Robbins · 09-12-2008 11:04AM

Dades wrote: »

While I agree it would be beneficial to anyone to know more about those fields, frankly I don't believe they are necessarily required to be an atheist with an opinion.

You could read philosophy until you're blue in the face but it won't give you a better indicator as to the non-existence of a benevolent god than simply following world news for a day.

Well let me clarify: I find people who do little research on their opinions but air them with certitude very annoying. Irrespective of what their opinions may be.

No problem having the attitude: "Even though I don't know much about or have little interest in philosophy, religion, science - I just don't believe in a God. I'm an atheist". No problemo.

Tar.Aldarion · 09-12-2008 11:16AM

Zillah wrote:

The very fact that you can be so casual about it really says something: "Meh, it's totally up to my boyfriend's whim if he'll spend a hundred billion years in darkness eternally separated from me and God".

Just a little thought on this point, which was the same as mine.
Heaven is supposed to be this blissful place where you are perfectly happy etc. What are the rules? Surely if an athiests mother/father/spouse/whatever got into heaven being religious and so on then they ould not be perfectly happy without their heathen chum? Would this person then get into heaven? Or go to hell anyway? Surely you could not be happy in Heaven with your loved ones being tortured for eternity?

Excuse my 11am musings. :-)

midlandsmissus · 09-12-2008 07:00PM

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

Just a little thought on this point, which was the same as mine.
Heaven is supposed to be this blissful place where you are perfectly happy etc. What are the rules? Surely if an athiests mother/father/spouse/whatever got into heaven being religious and so on then they ould not be perfectly happy without their heathen chum? Would this person then get into heaven? Or go to hell anyway? Surely you could not be happy in Heaven with your loved ones being tortured for eternity?

Excuse my 11am musings. :-)

The way I think about this is, the majority of people seem to turn to religion when they're older and closer to dying. When death is nearer to them and more important to them. Thats whats stops me from worrying about people. I know i certainly wouldnt be happy in heaven knowing anyone I cared for was suffering. Or really knowing that anyone at all was suffering. I'm a christian and i certainly wouldn't say that i dont have prolems with some areas of christianity. For example a christian told me that if hitler repented before he died he would go to heaven, whereas if somebody died and they didnt believe in god they would go to hell. who is the worse person there?

stepinnman · 09-12-2008 07:18PM

religion is man's answer to the conundrum of death -it's the common thread of all religions. They all promise some sort of life after death. Our inability to comprehend our own mortality requires that we deny it by creating an untouchable, ethereal other-world.

I profess to be an atheist and I claim that this position I've taken is based on years of thought on the topic and genuine internal struggle. My girlfriend is a Catholic and has a strong faith. Unlike previous posters on this thread her faith is not a reason for me to in any way disrespect her or act in a condescending manner to her. She has had an awful lot of tragedy in her life, more than most people could cope with and still achieve all the things she's done. Unfortunately this year her mother, who was everything to her died very young and very suddenly with no warning.

I would be very interested to know how many of the atheists on this thread have had a genuine experience of death (not a grandparent or Uncle or Aunt, but a parent or child or partner) and still held true to their opinion. I readily admit that it is the one experience I have yet to personally have and I can only imagine that my "faith" in atheism will be tested when it comes.

fatmammycat · 09-12-2008 08:05PM

"I readily admit that it is the one experience I have yet to personally have and I can only imagine that my "faith" in atheism will be tested when it comes."

I doubt it will. I lost my beloved father but it didn't make me believe in a deity. You either believe in a god or you don't. Losing people doesn't alter that. If anything it makes you understand that life is pretty fleeting and you should live it as well as you can and love the people you love with all your heart.

ChocolateSauce · 09-12-2008 09:18PM

fatmammycat wrote: »

"I readily admit that it is the one experience I have yet to personally have and I can only imagine that my "faith" in atheism will be tested when it comes."

I doubt it will. I lost my beloved father but it didn't make me believe in a deity. You either believe in a god or you don't. Losing people doesn't alter that. If anything it makes you understand that life is pretty fleeting and you should live it as well as you can and love the people you love with all your heart.

There are plenty of atheists who convert to theism, just as there are many theists who lose their faith and embrace atheism, and extremely traumatic events are a cause, I would have thought.

Could you go out with a religeous person?

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