Man murdered by youth(s) after home attacked(yes it happened in Ireland)

Mairt wrote: »

I could have typed all that too!.. Almost the same here, although my son is only 17, but is hoping to study business management too.

Bad parenting has a huge amount to do with our social ills, but las Dragan posted earlier (and I've often thought Dragan to be wise beyond his years and life experience) teenage boys are the stupiest, the dumb things to grace shoe leather (ok not his EXACT words, but I got his meaning).

How in gods name a child got his hands on a gun beats the sh*t out of me, but I doubt Daddy gave it to him.

Teenage boys do live in the twilight zones a lot and sometimes they have to learn the hard way some harsh lessons about life. I have had many moements with son when he 'knew it all ' and I was a bit like that myself . what teen isint ? I am glad him and I are more like mates than anything and he can come to us and know we were , and always will be there for him .It is strange to think that a lad so young could get his hand on a gun and do what he did .What was he thinking ? I do feel for that mans poor daughter/ family .

Incidently i use to wrork in Dublin with a mate from East wall and a nicer man you could not have met although i dont think he lives there now .

oceanclub wrote: »

Sorry, but there seems to be a huge contradiction here. If the community do indeed take action into their own hands - even only as far as protesting - they are being referred to as vigilantes.

Yet you're saying it's their fault, and not the parents, when the children run amok and murder people, and that therefore they should do something.

Which is it?

P.

Neither? Both? I am saying that the community needs to accept there own responsibility if they wish to push back on the parents as some people here are saying it is right to do.

There are many legal ways to take action against anti social behaviour.

gazzer wrote: »

Thats very interesting. I have met you a few times in the gym and you seem to be very focused and grounded so its good to hear an example of somebody that went through the bad times and was able to come out the other end. When you were going through your bad period do you think that you would ever have used a gun on somebody if you had have had one in your possession?

In all honesty, i don't know. Truth be told i don't go home very often because there is somebody there that i just cannot trust myself to be around. Even now, typing this, something deep inside me wants to kill that person.

If i had access to a weapon, through any means, when i was young and off the rails, would i have killed that person?

Possibly.

And that is being completely honest with you.

What really gets to me about this is that there is no sense of urgency in dealing with this from the government, who ultimately are responsible for enforcing the law.

The only thing that seems to be occupying the mind of the man who is currently meant to be running this country is a fu*king useless treaty that was rejected months ago.

We have this watershed crime, people are looking around saying, "hang on a minute, now what the FU*K is going on here?", we have an economy that is starting to make the 1980's look like some sort of fu*king trip to Disneyland, and all we are seeing by way of a response is, "we must sort out Lisbon, we must sort out Lisbon, we must sort out Lisbon"???????????

I love how people came in here with their swords of judgement attacking liberals on what we MAY think.

I have a few questions. How is it that a 13 year old was provided a gun? I hung out in some rough areas when I was 13, but the WORST a 13 year old could access anywhere in my city was probably a few cans of beer or a nodge. How on earth this 13 year old got a gun is beyond me.

So what do we do about it? All express our distaste for a little 13 year old scumbag and tell what we'd like to do to him? Lovely. But we all know that won't happen. He will be kept in youth detention until he is 18, and will come out a worse or better person for it. I tell you, maybe he has no moral or soul - but carrying the weight of murder at 13 is a big thing to carry.

Why is nobody screaming to find out the source of this problem - and that's whoever provided a gun to this child. Was the child a ruthless little scumbag? Absolutely. But is he the sole problem in relation to this incident? Absolutely not.

oceanclub wrote: »

Fine, so tell me what the community should do.

P.

Why? I don't live there, i don't know the community well enough, or it's problems, to be able to advise them on what is the correct course of action.

I can happily point out that the INCORRECT source of action is gun jumping, finger pointing and publically putting the blame on two parents when we don't have a clue what they went through with their kid.

dlofnep wrote: »

I love how people came in here with their swords of judgement attacking liberals on what we MAY think.

I have a few questions. How is it that a 13 year old was provided a gun? I hung out in some rough areas when I was 13, but the WORST a 13 year old could access anywhere in my city was probably a few cans of beer or a nodge. How on earth this 13 year old got a gun is beyond me.

So what do we do about it? All express our distaste for a little 13 year old scumbag and tell what we'd like to do to him? Lovely. But we all know that won't happen. He will be kept in youth detention until he is 18, and will come out a worse or better person for it. I tell you, maybe he has no moral or soul - but carrying the weight of murder at 13 is a big thing to carry.

Why is nobody screaming to find out the source of this problem - and that's whoever provided a gun to this child. Was the child a ruthless little scumbag? Absolutely. But is he the sole problem in relation to this incident? Absolutely not.

Agreed, and the people who have the answers to these questions are the kids parents and we should march on their house and sit outside it, and ask the parents to come out and answer plain and simple questions like:

(1) How on earth did your kid get his hands on a handgun & ammunition?

(2) Who in your opinion supplied him with these items?

(3) How did your son end up with the belief that it was acceptable to carry these items around the streets?

(4) How did your son end up with the belief that it is acceptable to point this weapon at an inocent man and shoot him head where he was standing?

Dragan wrote: »

Neither? Both? I am saying that the community needs to accept there own responsibility if they wish to push back on the parents as some people here are saying it is right to do.

There are many legal ways to take action against anti social behaviour.



In all honesty, i don't know. Truth be told i don't go home very often because there is somebody there that i just cannot trust myself to be around. Even now, typing this, something deep inside me wants to kill that person.

If i had access to a weapon, through any means, when i was young and off the rails, would i have killed that person?

Possibly.

And that is being completely honest with you.

Thats exactly why this gang of murderers(they are all murderers- did any of them help that dying man?) needs to be given the harshest treatment they can get.
Its too late for Aidan O'Kane. Ireland has failed him.
We can make an example of his killers tho. When parents can't or won't disciplin a child, its time for others to help. That can only start with the people who make the laws.

These kids are wild. They're feril. One in particular, about 12 years old, is always on the streets, he's put out in the morning and left there. He doesn't go to school. He's one child that needs to see an example of the kids he knows from hanging out on Church Road. Its too late to ask why these particular kids have turned into animals. Its time to treat them like the animals they have become. Stop others turning into animals and treating people like prey.


These kids need to be whipped so bad that others like them can see consequences. Its basic human rights. One man lost his life this week, but he was also living in constant harrasment. And he's not the only one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyQ2qcO6F5Y

Tie them to each other around the spike and whip them til their ribs are raw. Will that stay with them? Will that be in the mind of someone considering the same kind of horror? Basic human rights.

Bambi wrote: »

As I said earlier, give scumbags the environment in which they'll thrive and they will turn borderline kids into scumbags too. I've seen it happen when i was a kid and I see it now. We ignored it for 20 years and now we're reaping the benefits.

Having said that, my solution is to string a large percentage of the f***ers up on lamposts..

Yur right.

Two of my primary school class mates are knife murderers. One was pure evil. He stabbed me in the eye(missing the vital parts) with a sharpened pencil in 1st class. The other was an alright lad, goin along with the group, afraid to be seen as soft. Both in jail for murder before turning 20.

The evil one was always in trouble with the law, but never deterred. Everyone who knew him could see it was goin to happen. Just as everyone in East Wall knew these kids were goin to kill someone.

There's no shock about the death. Its about the gun in the hands of a 15 year old. A little man we pass every week, ready to laugh off his fight talk.

the Gardai can round up and charge every little toerag in the country but whats the point if the courts can't deal with them appropriately.

do we not need to take action of some description and i am not taking baying crowds roaming the streets! I mean politicians, gardai, legislation, educational system, communities as a whole, parents etc etc

Correct.

Its time to stop pussyfooting around with "kids"
What a lot of people are failing to recognise is that kids have free will. Nobody made this little piece of filth steal the gun from where ever he got it from, no one made him torment the man, no one made him murder Aidan O'Kane in cold blood. It was executed and premeditated by him. He enjoyed it and feels no remorse. He thinks he is badass now.

He does not care, one little bit, in fact he is PROUD.

Now I remember being 13. I was smart, not one bit easily led, I was rebellious but I knew WELL the difference between right and wrong.
I decided what I did, not my social status, my parents, my school, society yada blah blah....ME

And so does this toerag know the difference between right and wrong. He needs to be tried as an adult.

The argument about the parents is academic, yes there are brutal parents with scumbag kids but there are also decent parents with sneaky, psychopathic kids who ENJOY hurting others. We cannot mitigate against that.

The kid took an educated chance, he knows he will get 4 years with Playstation and all the rest laid on, but to 13 year old write-off planning a life as a gangster thats just more stripes.

Why cant a "child" stand for murder, I'd like to know a good valid reason.

This little cnut feels untouchable the way things stand now, the law is an ass, with its revolving door and the likes of this one going through 50 or 60 times before 18 years old. Robbed cars, setting fires the usual....

The law has got to change, the likes of this little career gangster has got to be sent a message that this will not stand.

The community can be up in arms all the want but they were happy enough to let things get to this point.

Nobody in this community has been happy. Thats a ridiculous staement from someone who goes on to say he doesn't know the community.

I've seen the community garda laughing and jokin with a bunch of 13 year old girls that were hanging around, drinking on the street. His jaw dropped when he saw me.

The centra that opened on Church Road has been a focal point of the feril youths since it opened over a year ago. Since then they have grown bolder and had no consequences. They set one of my friends on fire in the chinese. What are the gardai doing? Patroling every inch of business area in Dublin from The Ilac to Terenure. Protecting the money from these kids and their big brothers.

But not protecting Aidan O'Kane or the rest of us. You know, the humans.

I never thought that I could identify with Americans on their gun policy. I see now the fear that makes a normal person want a gun. If this happened 2 corners from you, you'd understand.

Well, firstly my symapthies to the victim and his family.
I know the area well, for those of you that don't, there are thousands of good people living in east wall. Like all areas there is a small group of families that are wild. East Wall doesn't generally make the news for this stuff cos the kids hang out further up town, the greater Sheriff Street area/Summerhill, or drinking and doing drugs in Fairview park.
The majority headline crimes in these areas are caused by teenagers, the juvenile courts have no teeth, so by the time these kids are 17 / 18 they've been through the system and figured out that there is no real punishment.
This isn't a new story, remember the "Bugsy Malone" teenage gang through the 1980's, it's members came from the same areas. In fact the same familes are still notorious for inner citycrime. Most of Irelands best known thugs came through the same areas. (We can't name them here, but any Sunday newspaper regularly mentions their many nick names)
Holding the parent's responsible? Fine in the normal world, but these parents dont care.
Early intervention is needed, children need to be taken from these parents at a young age, unfortunately family law doesn't work that way.
Drive by the chipper on Church Road any evening, dozens of teenagers hastling pasersby, setting fire to bins, stoning the firebrigade etc.