Boards Referendum - English as the first language of Republic of Ireland

TEH REAL CDP · 07-12-2008 12:16am

Mark200 wrote: »

But it's pointless and good for nothing besides history

I am saddened that people feel this way - its who we are. You just have to engage with the language. It is good for something. Fair enough if people have bad experiences in school with learning it or whatever but lets not throw away what is ours.

Acacia · 07-12-2008 12:40am

I remember a similar thread here before. People who wanted to keep the language alive generally argued along the lines of ''it's our heritage and history'' while the other side argued more for the practical side of things,like ''Irish has no use in most people's lives''. If I remember correctly, neither side came to an agreement. This thread will probably end up the same, but here's my two cents:

I'd like to keep it as the first language. I was abroad this summer, and whenever anybody asked if I could speak Irish, I had to say '' just a bit'' or, more honestly, ''no, not really''.
I was really put off by how it was taught in school. As bad as it sounds, I felt like I was being forced into learning a foreign language. So I understand people not really caring about it, especially because of the way in which it's taught in school. I'd really love to be able to speak it, though.

EDIT: I especially like the all the old Irish sayings, like the one in my sig. :P

Nehaxak · 07-12-2008 3:49am

I have a basic understanding and can get by with the same basic speaking of about 8 languages (besides english) but Irish I find the hardest purely because I'd never spoken it on a daily basis.
However, after I moved to Ballymun about 8 years ago, the place here rekindled my faith in the language with so many people speaking it on a daily basis due to the Primary and secondary school educations here thought in Irish.

My two children are fluent Irish speakers as is my partner (who is half Filipino). The education they get from the Irish primary school here is absolutely fantastic and I wish I could've got the same education. There is a very high chance that another secondary Irish school will be built in Ballymun in the next few years to meet the demand.

I voted for keeping Irish as our primary/first language and I would love to see what's being done in Ballymun with Irish schools here, being replicated across other area's of Dublin.

Must be said also that the Irish schools here are mostly funded by the parents and general public in the area, they get feck all from the government and anything they do get from the government has to be fought really hard for. This pissant government have done little or nothing to promote the language and as a matter of fact myself I think they've hindered it's usage on purpose and gone out of their way to make it very hard for Irish schools to get the funding they need.

Would love to see more people speak the language and the best way to improve the take up of it is to teach it properly like they are doing in the Irish speaking schools in Ballymun.

It's also nice to have our own dialect of sorts here also, different than the culchie Irish and easier to understand

Also Starring LeVar Burton · 07-12-2008 3:58am

Is í an Ghaeilge ár theanga dúchais agus is ceart go mbeadh bród againn sa teanga sin.
If you can't speak the language because you didn't like how it was taught in schools, doesn't give you the right to call it a dead language.
As long as 2 people speak a language it can't be dead - and there's thousands of people who speak Irish, so it will not die - if anything it's getting stronger.

sdanseo · 07-12-2008 4:14am

I'm not shocked at the result but am VERY appalled that even 80 odd people want the teanga gone. The Irish language is integral to all of us, it's part of our culture and heritage, part in my opinion of every Irish person whether the know it or not. To speak out against Irish is tantamount to treason in my book - thnk of 1916, 800 years of oppression and how hard we fought to gain our independence, something that defines us from joe brit.

In most cases where people have a poor command of Irish, it's because it's treated like shít in schools and taught so badly it makes the government of today look GOOD.

I'm by no means flunt in Irish, I was lazy, dropped to pass Irish and failed to be taught much more than how to count to ten. However I would still be fervently of the opinion that anyone wh considers themselves Irish and voted YES above should be stripped of their citizenship and deported.

07-12-2008 5:38am

The whole planet speaking one language! How boring!

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 07-12-2008 7:23am

snyper wrote: »

id love to speak irish.. But i havent a word of it.

you know more than you think, was listening to the radio and ended up on the irish radio station, the girlfriend (non irish) hadn't a clue what they were saying but I could tell her a bit about it. I was surprised at what I knew

Even though it wasn't a huge amount. It's nice to have a couple of words in Irish

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 07-12-2008 7:25am

sdonn_1 wrote: »

I'm not shocked at the result but am VERY appalled that even 80 odd people want the teanga gone. The Irish language is integral to all of us, it's part of our culture and heritage, part in my opinion of every Irish person whether the know it or not. To speak out against Irish is tantamount to treason in my book - thnk of 1916, 800 years of oppression and how hard we fought to gain our independence, something that defines us from joe brit.

In most cases where people have a poor command of Irish, it's because it's treated like shít in schools and taught so badly it makes the government of today look GOOD.

I'm by no means flunt in Irish, I was lazy, dropped to pass Irish and failed to be taught much more than how to count to ten. However I would still be fervently of the opinion that anyone wh considers themselves Irish and voted YES above should be stripped of their citizenship and deported.

Maybe them 80 people are actually not irish? Or are just completely ignorant and don't know much about irish history, culture or heritage???

Adamcp898 · 07-12-2008 12:12pm

English ftw

It has countless advantages over the other MINORITY one

and tbh if you need your own language to find your own identity then you need more help I'm afraid.

I doubt the rest of the world cares if we've our own language or not tbh anyway. Won't affect our identity in the slightest and not as if they're ever going to be learning to speak to us anyway, they'd cut us off and leave us on our own if we decided in the morning we weren't going to speak english.

Time Magazine · 07-12-2008 12:35pm

Voipjunkie wrote: »

Trying to save a dying Motor Industry

Good point.

Trying to save a dying Banking system

Banking systems are fairly important.

Trying to save an airline that does not need to be saved

Agreed. Thankfully nobody's doing this.

And of course trying to save a language that is not dying that is far more wasteful

Not very bright or imaginative your old Lecturer ?

Trying to save a language that is not dying requires no effort, so isn't wasteful.

Davidius wrote: »

Leaving the lights on and the taps running? Buying new when you have reusable materials at your disposal?

We don't see a Bord na Keep The Taps Running, or the Bord na Ceannaigh Rudaí Nua, though.

Cancelling out variables when you should be factorising?

Hey don't diss cancelling out.

sock puppet · 07-12-2008 12:41pm

sdonn_1 wrote: »

I'm not shocked at the result but am VERY appalled that even 80 odd people want the teanga gone. The Irish language is integral to all of us, it's part of our culture and heritage, part in my opinion of every Irish person whether the know it or not. To speak out against Irish is tantamount to treason in my book - thnk of 1916, 800 years of oppression and how hard we fought to gain our independence, something that defines us from joe brit.

In most cases where people have a poor command of Irish, it's because it's treated like shít in schools and taught so badly it makes the government of today look GOOD.

I'm by no means flunt in Irish, I was lazy, dropped to pass Irish and failed to be taught much more than how to count to ten. However I would still be fervently of the opinion that anyone wh considers themselves Irish and voted YES above should be stripped of their citizenship and deported.

This post is in jest right?

Terry · 07-12-2008 2:12pm

Domo230 wrote: »

I speak english, my decendants have spoken it for hundreds of years, its the second most spoken language on the planet and allows me to interact and trade with some of the most important nations on the planet.

Ideally the world would all speak one language and fortunately this seems to be becoming the case. Be it Chinese,RnglishmSpanish etc I dont really care.

But Id rather be speaking English than Irish. English FTW.

Chicken sandwich?

TEH REAL CDP · 07-12-2008 2:16pm

Its not about what advantages one language has over the other.

Its about heritage, respect and something that was fought for long before your time. If two people speak it, the language is not dead. People who bitch and moan about Ireland, the culture and the language should really just **** off. You have to leave somewhere to truly appreciate it. I speak Irish (what little I have but I make the effort - even more so that I'm gone now) and would like my children (in the future) to speak it as well. Just because it is badly taught does not merit its extinction by public vote. That's ridiculous. It just needs a severe reform in the way it is taught in schools. Moreover, the attitude of the teachers that teach it is crucial. It makes me proud to be an Irish person, the fact that I have my own language. Maybe the people that bitch and moan and whine about everything that's Irish should take a look at themselves - you don't know how lucky you are. This language runs deeper than you could ever fathom. People fought to keep it alive during a time where it was banned in this country. Its ingrained into us, whether you choose to recognise it or not. Why you want to try to strip the country of this language (again) is beyond me. If you don't speak it, fine. Just leave it be. But for the rest of us who know where we come from - it'll always be ours.

ScumLord · 07-12-2008 2:19pm

Domo230 wrote: »

I speak english, my decendants have spoken it for hundreds of years, its the second most spoken language on the planet and allows me to interact and trade with some of the most important nations on the planet.

Ideally the world would all speak one language and fortunately this seems to be becoming the case.

Ya diversity sucks, communism and blandness rules!! I hate going to a different country and finding that every things different.

johnl · 07-12-2008 2:23pm

galwayrush wrote: »

I don't don't know what a tracker thingy is in gaelic:rolleyes:

'morgáiste rianaithe', possibly.

Adamcp898 · 07-12-2008 3:18pm

TEH REAL CDP wrote: »

Its not about what advantages one language has over the other.

Its about heritage, respect and something that was fought for long before your time. If two people speak it, the language is not dead. People who bitch and moan about Ireland, the culture and the language should really just **** off. You have to leave somewhere to truly appreciate it. I speak Irish (what little I have but I make the effort - even more so that I'm gone now) and would like my children (in the future) to speak it as well. Just because it is badly taught does not merit its extinction by public vote. That's ridiculous. It just needs a severe reform in the way it is taught in schools. Moreover, the attitude of the teachers that teach it is crucial. It makes me proud to be an Irish person, the fact that I have my own language. Maybe the people that bitch and moan and whine about everything that's Irish should take a look at themselves - you don't know how lucky you are. This language runs deeper than you could ever fathom. People fought to keep it alive during a time where it was banned in this country. Its ingrained into us, whether you choose to recognise it or not. Why you want to try to strip the country of this language (again) is beyond me. If you don't speak it, fine. Just leave it be. But for the rest of us who know where we come from - it'll always be ours.

You'll make your children learn a language then that will jeopardise their full understanding and command of an international language that will prove itself infinitely more times useful than Irish ever will be all for your old nostalgic view of Ireland. You'll keep yourself from moving forward with the times because of your old ''fvck the Brits'' view on life.

That represents backward thinking and a very small minded attitude tbh.

Terry · 07-12-2008 3:24pm

Adamcp898 wrote: »

You'll make your children learn a language then that will jeopardise their full understanding and command of an international language that will prove itself infinitely more times useful than Irish ever will be all for your old nostalgic view of Ireland. You'll keep yourself from moving forward with the times because of your old ''fvck the Brits'' view on life.

That represents backward thinking and a very small minded attitude tbh.

Being proud to be Irish and wanting to learn your native tongue does not equate to hating British people.

Why is it that some people cannot tell the difference?

Bob the Builder · 07-12-2008 3:26pm

CaptainNegative wrote: »

As long as 2 people speak a language it can't be dead - and there's thousands of people who speak Irish, so it will not die - if anything it's getting stronger.

Most of them are being paid to speak Irish.

culabula · 07-12-2008 3:28pm

snyper wrote: »

Je ne parle pas 'irish'
je prefè anglaise et un pue francaise.
Ca va?

Non, ca ne va pas du tout and all it reveals is just how badly ALL languages are taught in schools within the 26-county state.

Adamcp898 · 07-12-2008 3:31pm

Terry wrote: »

Being proud to be Irish and wanting to learn your native tongue does not equate to hating British people.

Why is it that some people cannot tell the difference?

Wanting to learn a language above another infinitely more useful one just because ''X and Y fought to save it'' at a time when we ruled by another country isn't patriotic it's stupid. The long term benefits of having English is proven in every sector, why do you think the rest of the world is rushing to learn it?

Terry · 07-12-2008 3:56pm

Adamcp898 wrote: »

Wanting to learn a language above another infinitely more useful one just because ''X and Y fought to save it'' at a time when we ruled by another country isn't patriotic it's stupid. The long term benefits of having English is proven in every sector, why do you think the rest of the world is rushing to learn it?

So people should only speak English and no other language?

Also Starring LeVar Burton · 07-12-2008 3:58pm

Bob the Builder wrote: »

Most of them are being paid to speak Irish.

No they're not... You gonna back that up.
I speak Irish with loads of people daily. None of us are paid to be speaking it - tá bród againn sa teanga agus b'fhearr linn í ná an Béarla lofa. Is teanga i bhfad níos deise agus fileata í agus gan í bheinn caillte.
Maireann croí éadrom i bhfad.

johnl · 07-12-2008 3:58pm

Adamcp898 wrote: »

You'll make your children learn a language then that will jeopardise their full understanding and command of an international language that will prove itself infinitely more times useful than Irish ever will be all for your old nostalgic view of Ireland.

Teaching your children Irish will not in any way harm their learning of English. Indeed, it has been shown over and over that learning a second (or third) language can only improve cognition and indeed performance in the first language or mother-tongue.

I've taken the liberty of highlighting your own "understanding and command" of the English language in the quote above.

Adamcp898 · 07-12-2008 4:01pm

Terry wrote: »

So people should only speak English and no other language?

I'm saying people should choose to learn the language that's most beneficial to them, don't let this it's your patriotic duty drivel decide for them, afterall we're not letting it hold us back from heading over the border to spend our money

CaptainNegative wrote: »

No they're not... You gonna back that up.
I speak Irish with loads of people daily. None of us are paid to be speaking it - tá bród againn sa teanga agus b'fhearr linn í ná an Béarla lofa. Is teanga i bhfad níos deise agus fileata í agus gan í bheinn caillte.
Maireann croí éadrom i bhfad.

But there are certain grants available for those who support the Irish language, naming your business in Irish etc.

johnl · 07-12-2008 4:02pm

Terry wrote: »

Being proud to be Irish and wanting to learn your native tongue does not equate to hating British people.

Why is it that some people cannot tell the difference?

Up till the 1880s or so, Unionists in the North used the Irish language. Photos show "Éirinn go bráth" over the show-hall for the annual Unionist meeting in Belfast, stories tell of Orange Lodge marches greeting each other with "Céad míle fáilte".
It was only later that the language became unacceptable to Unionists, when the well was poisoned. It's important to remember that this only happened relatively recently.
Another victim of nationalism.

Adamcp898 · 07-12-2008 4:10pm

johnl wrote: »

Teaching your children Irish will not in any way harm their learning of English. Indeed, it has been shown over and over that learning a second (or third) language can only improve cognition and indeed performance in the first language or mother-tongue.

I've taken the liberty of highlighting your own "understanding and command" of the English language in the quote above.

There's nothing wrong with my usage of any of the words you have emboldened.

No it certainly does not always improve one's command of a primary language. In certain related languages it can help yes for example with French, Italien and Spanish.

But as regards Irish helping your understanding of English, no. The different ways of structuring sentences (placing of verbs etc.) in the two languages is enough to see that.

Children who go to gaelscoils that speak Irish all day won't have as good a command of the English language as those who speak English all day.

Also Starring LeVar Burton · 07-12-2008 4:20pm

Adamcp898 wrote: »

There's nothing wrong with my usage of any of the words you have emboldened.

No it certainly does not always improve one's command of a primary language. In certain related languages it can help yes for example with French, Italien and Spanish.

But as regards Irish helping your understanding of English, no. The different ways of structuring sentences (placing of verbs etc.) in the two languages is enough to see that.

Children who go to gaelscoils that speak Irish all day won't have as good a command of the English language as those who speak English all day.

That's a load of boll**ks. I went to gaelscoileanna throughout my education - I have a degree in both Irish and English. Judging by this thread alone, my grasp of the english tongue is better than your own.
Therefore, you are wrong. :cool:

TEH REAL CDP · 07-12-2008 4:29pm

Adamcp898 wrote: »

You'll make your children learn a language then that will jeopardise their full understanding and command of an international language that will prove itself infinitely more times useful than Irish ever will be all for your old nostalgic view of Ireland. You'll keep yourself from moving forward with the times because of your old ''fvck the Brits'' view on life.

That represents backward thinking and a very small minded attitude tbh.

Its ironic that in the points (if there are any) you endeavor to make in your posts - you completely contradict yourself:

You obviously haven't a clue about what you're talking about if you think learning more than one language will void the command of another. That's not how learning and the human brain works. Learning various forms of tenses and grammar consolidates verbal and aural reasoning in the brain. Hence, people who have studied/had exposure to many languages at an early stage in development are more proficient in grasping the fundamental basis of language structure (in a multilingual context I might add) and can even comprehend the subtle dialectual differences in many subforms of a foreign language. Studying Irish (via a reformed syllabus approach) will only enhance that ability.

My old nostalgic view of Ireland? :rolleyes: Yeah - give me a break. If I had that viewpoint on life - I'd be bitter and resentful of everyone around me from staying in Ireland too long. Sound familiar?

I don't hate anyone or endorse any of what you are saying. To progress as a nation - you do not forget where you came from. That is ignorance and blind ignorance at that. For the record, I work in the UK and the only reason I'm posting is that I'm appalled that people are reacting in such a fashion. Its people like you that are small minded - who refuse to see the bigger picture and where they stand in the world and why, today - they are able to stand there as Irish people.

I'm completely done with this topic. It's downright offensive and serves no purpose. I'll console myself that this is the internet, its to be expected. I don't even know why I bothered to post. Same AH tripe tbqfh.

Adamcp898 · 07-12-2008 4:29pm

CaptainNegative wrote: »

That's a load of boll**ks. I went to gaelscoileanna throughout my education - I have a degree in both Irish and English. Judging by this thread alone, my grasp of the english tongue is better than your own.
Therefore, you are wrong. :cool:

Good to see you learned a lot then.

It's great when you don't have to say a word to disprove what some says.

pawrick · 07-12-2008 4:32pm

mumhaabu wrote: »

I would say keep the status quo and keep both Languages official. I would put emphasis on stopping the waste where everything is translated into Irish and speaking it is a licence to get into a lazy comfy state public job. It should however be kept as a requirement for all TD's, Gardai and important position within the state, however your average pencil pusher does not need it.

I really have to agree with most of this - I can't speak Irish and honestly have little interest in learning it now, but like most Irish people I am proud that we have it as our language ( I know I know tis complicated!)

From experience I have seen the utter waste in translating documents in to Irish where if we are to be honest about it, it wouldn't be read in English either but it's just to keep a few pains in the ass happy who seem to go out of their way to look for things in Irish or wont use the web to print off their own copies.

Boards Referendum - English as the first language of Republic of Ireland

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